Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
May 15, 2021

Episode #97 S1-EP97 Using Genuine Curiosity in Initiating Sales Conversations with Emily Shaw

Emily Shaw joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Let’s hear from Emily on how she started her career in sales and how it led her to the discovery of coaching and consulting where she’s able to blend sales and psychology - the two practices she loved the most.


Emily Shaw is one of the leading Sales Consultants at Lushin, Inc., a professional training and coaching company that guides business leaders in clarifying their intent for growth by teaching through example. Emily serves as part of the team that brings in individuals with different personalities, strengths, and experiences which would resonate with her clients. With this, they’re able to develop a customized approach in their sales force and ensure reinforcement measures through an advocate who understands what works for them and their unique situation. 

Armed with a Psychology degree, an extensive background in sales, and possessing the innate charm to close deals, Emily went out of her way to learn more about sales that surpass the traditional training environment. She’s done a lot of researching and learning which sets her apart in mastering the business which led her down the path to sales training and consulting. Not shying away from personal conversations, her tailored approach has been proven most effective with her sales management consulting clients, especially in building a level of trust that strengthens her relationship with them.

Find out more and reach out to Emily Shaw through the following links:

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Transcript

Episode 97 - Emily Shaw

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is happening, uh, sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I've got a special guest for you today. I know that we're going to have a ton of fun, and we're going to be talking about the fact that it's not all about you, whether you're an individual contributor, whether you're a sales leader.

[00:00:50] That is what we are going to dig into today. And I've got Emily Shaw who is a sales coach at Lucian. Emily. Welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm pumped to be here. All right. Let's, let's get right into it. We're going to keep the good stuff. Uh, most of our time to talk about this topic that I know you're fired up about.

[00:01:08] Um, but just give us the super short version of your sales story to kind of set the table and then we'll just jump right in. Super short version of my sales story of a lot of SS. Um, so I was selling, um, event coordinating sort of stuff. Um, while I was in college for my psychology degree, uh, and then I hopped over to selling office furniture, which is an obvious.

[00:01:35] Transition. Um, and I loved what I did was not super passionate about Cherice. Um, there's a lot of different types of chairs too. Are very expensive. Yes. I sold the most expensive ones. Um, But loved my clients. And when I found out that there was a role where I could blend my love of selling and my love of psychology and be a sales coach, consultant trainer, um, yes.

[00:02:04] Sign me up. Where do I go? How do I, how do I get this done? So that's it. Hmm. Okay. So tell me a little bit about like anything that you learned in those first two sales roles that just kind of, uh, Form this passion for sales for you, or that has just kind of stuck with you from the very beginning. What did I learn in my first two?

[00:02:27] I don't, I am old Colin. I don't know what I learned that long ago. Um, I think it was really just that the people part was. Was the best part. Um, what I learned early on was that the questions that I asked out of genuine curiosity with no destination or outcome in mind, Facilitated the best conversations that I had with my clients.

[00:02:52] And that is something that we'll probably roll into the topic that we're talking about today, that I'm still very passionate about. Um, but I'd say that's really what I hone my craft around. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and, and I love that you bring up that topic because, uh, I've worked with a lot of salespeople in, in, in my time as well.

[00:03:10] And I found that the most successful people are the people that are just genuinely curious. Because they ask the best questions. They take the relationship to a different place that people who are really making it more about them and not as curious and not asking better questions, um, tend to really struggle with building a nice healthy pipeline, um, or end up shoving a lot of deals that don't belong in the pipeline in the first place, which is a whole nother topic.

[00:03:41] I'm really passionate about that one too, because I love that you're just like a total sales nerd like myself, you know, there's a lot of salespeople that are great at what they do. And, but then there's a lot of people who. Only like a certain parts of the sales process. I like all of it. Like I will cold call for five hours a week still to this day.

[00:04:02] And it actually pisses me off when people post these things of like, never make a cold call or the cold or the phone is dead. And all these things were like, I enjoyed it. It makes me mad too. So, so far we haven't bought yet about anything, which you told me we could do, but I'm going to find something, but that is not the thing.

[00:04:18] I totally agree with that as well. Yeah. We'll find that we got plenty of time. We'll find you something to hash it out about. Maybe possibly we'll see, you got to stay tuned to figure it out. So, um, all right. So tell me this. So you, you love the part of the people. I wish I would've learned that early on. I was, I was taught so many bad habits early on, like all the things, all the reasons that people hate salespeople, like I was taught all those things, you know, uh, treating people, very transactionally, making it all about me, talking about features and benefits and all of this.

[00:04:51] And. Throw out an offer and, and then, you know, throw out another offer and, you know, build some fake phony rapport and change the subject and throw out another offer. And like, that was what I would say. Oh man. Yeah. That sounds like a nightmare. No offense. I'm sure you've come a long way. I've come a little bit.

[00:05:09] Yeah, it will become a little further along since then. Um, but anyway, yeah. Uh, th you know, and, and there's still a lot of that stuff that's still taught today, which really pisses me off. Um, but you know, part of it is like, there's, there's a lot of resources out there. So if you're not getting the support or inside your organization, like there's a lot of free resources, like getting outside help.

[00:05:29] Like there's a lot of. Things that you can do to take advantage, to, you know, get better at the craft of sales. And so I'm a big believer of like taking ownership in your own personal professional development and not solely relying on, you know, whatever resources you have inside of your organization.

[00:05:46] That's a great plan. Um, my previous company, when we were talking about slinging chairs, um, they were not, uh, going to provide those resources to me. And I actually. Was a client, uh, at Lucian before I, um, drink so much Kool-Aid that I couldn't leave anymore. Um, but I sought it out on my own, uh, invested my own time and dollars in making that happen for myself.

[00:06:09] And it was the best decisions that I've ever made for my career. And I think a lot of salespeople struggle with that a little bit. They think that, um, Their organizations should provide the resources to them to show that they care or, or are vested in them. And I hear some salespeople using it as an excuse to not get the help that is out there.

[00:06:30] Like, well, my company won't pay for it. It's like, well, yeah. I mean, are you letting your company run your whole life over there? Come on. Don't you don't, you want to get better, faster, stronger, make some more money and are, you're not going to be beholden to your company to do that. Um, so I think that's a good point.

[00:06:44] It's the equivalent of. Of the rep that's not hitting quota saying the lead suck. Well then go get some, go get some leads, do some prospecting, you know? So, um, that's the way I like to look at it. Um, so let's, let's talk about this topic that I know you love talking about. And probably the hardest part is going to probably, you know, at some point we're gonna have to cut it off because we're going to have too much fun, but it's not all about you.

[00:07:08] What does that mean for an individual contributor? What. Do you see in reps that are struggling with that piece? What are some of the common things that they're doing and what they can they do to sort of change their mindset around that? That's a lot. Um, so I th I think a common rule that I repeat often to Sandler rule sales is not a place to get your needs met.

[00:07:34] Hmm, I'm gonna say it again. It's not all about my commission check or whether people like I'm in the wrong profession. Yeah. Um, it, it sounds cool to get commissioned and it is, uh, but it's, it's not a place to get your needs met. So whether that's emotional needs or financial needs or, or whatever, if you come into it with that mentality, you will exhibit a lot of, um, Not cute behaviors.

[00:08:02] It will be desperate, right. And pushy and aggressive and not listening and not curious. So all of the things that, that are really, um, attributed to bad salespeople or stereotypical bad salespeople, uh, is because they're putting themselves first in any transaction. I mean, transaction as a, as a human to human conversation, not necessarily a dollar transaction.

[00:08:26] Um, but it's, it's pretty obvious when. The people that make it about them. Uh, are, are getting some results like that. It's like, well, yeah, cause no one wants to be around. You wants to talk to you, let alone give you their money. Um, I'm sure you've experienced someone like that before. Oh yeah. That is.

[00:08:46] That's actually, that's more than a sales problem. Yeah. Well, and it shows up in really sneaky ways, right? It's not always the commission breath thing that, um, is a need that salespeople have Dave Curlin, uh, God, amongst men, when it comes to sales, uh, talks about five hidden weaknesses. And there were a few in there that have to do with getting your needs met.

[00:09:07] The biggest one that, uh, salespeople struggle with is a need for approval. So that's my need for you to like me, as opposed to respect me and you know, do business with me. And so we don't push back in conversations because a lot of trouble, yeah. We don't want you to be mad. I don't want you to think that we're pushing her aggressive and do that.

[00:09:27] We can give you that concession. Sure. You, we don't need to sign a term. Sure. We can throw in those extra things. Sure. Fix that we have that feature. Like those are the sort of things that can happen. I'll let you dictate to me the scope. I'm sure you can go through that with them. What should the pro you tell me what, what should the process look like?

[00:09:47] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that's, and that's out of a place of wanting to get my being more concerned that you won't like me than what's right. And so that's. Still trying to get a need met. Um, he talks about emotional involvement, uh, which is not being able to be present in a conversation because you're listening to the chatter of in your own head.

[00:10:07] We've all been there, even if, even if randomly someone who's not in sales is listening to this podcast. If you've ever been in a fight with your spouse and they're beginning a really great point and you're like, Ugh, well, it's definitely happened some other time with, I can't remember it right now because you, you are in a place where.

[00:10:26] Nothing is firing. Like it's supposed to be because you're listening to your own. Oh gosh, what should I say next? What questions should I ask next? Where are they going with this same thing in a sales call? And again, that could be because you have a need for validation. Maybe you don't want anybody to think you're stupid.

[00:10:40] So you feel like you've got to have all the right answers or who knows, right? Yeah. I mean, in that, in that situation, that's con that's a common one and, and takes a lot of practice to be a great active listener. Right. To actually be taking in an even, you know, even trying to, you know, have some empathy for whatever it is they're talking about, like understanding what they're saying and processing it, rather than thinking about the next widget or feature or accolade or thing that you think you're supposed to tell them that's in your script or playbook.

[00:11:14] Um, and, and so you just kinda tell that to shut up and like listen and pay attention and maybe even hit mute and like take good notes so you can refer back to them. And review those calls, review those meetings, like, Hey, did I miss anything? You know, could I ask a better question there? Um, and so it takes practice sometimes actually just like doing a crappy job and then seeing it, and then being aware of it so that you can actually make the necessary changes to do it better a hundred percent.

[00:11:41] Yep. So I agree. So these are some of the symptoms that you see in sellers that are. Trying to put their needs before their prospect or their customer. Yeah. Okay. You know, and you mentioned another one about cold calling or prospecting. Um, lots of people feel uncomfortable, cold calling or whatever prospecting behavior there.

[00:12:05] Lots of people feel uncomfortable asking their existing clients for referrals. It's not just cold calling. Right. There are a lot of behaviors that people feel uncomfortable, uh, doing and, you know, I always ask people like who's that it was up to you. Do you believe that your product and service and or service will help people out there?

[00:12:23] And that there are people out there that need our help. They always answer. Yes. And I ask like, well, why is it your choice that they cannot receive that help? Because you refuse to pick up the phone or you refuse to ask them. For a referral you're directly standing in the way of someone getting that help because someone's out there waiting for you to call or waiting to be referred, but you're so concerned about how it makes you feel that you're not willing to do that.

[00:12:47] And so it's another way to serve yourself as opposed to someone else. Hmm. And so that's a big mind shift for, for sellers to actually view it from that lens. How does somebody that maybe doesn't see it that way? Kind of shift their mind to, to, to feel like I owe it to these prospects to help them or to serve them or to help them solve these problems that I'm hopefully passionate about solving for people, um, and stop making it so much about them.

[00:13:18] Or it's like, um, come from uncomfortable and scared. I don't like the way it feels when I asked that I want to bother them where all these things and excuses that they tell themselves, um, too. Not serve at the highest level to people and make it less about themselves. I'm a big fan of journaling. I'm sure someone has spoken on this podcast journaling in the past, um, because it is a vital sales tool that I think is underappreciated, uh, as a sales tool.

[00:13:47] Um, but I used to, if I would ever get in a situation where, um, I felt uncomfortable in a moment, uh, from a prospecting perspective, Maybe it was a person specific entity, maybe it was a, a behavior. Um, I would get my journal out and I would write in my journal. I am not a selfish person because that's true of me.

[00:14:10] I am not a selfish person. I may be showing up in those moments in fear and thus. Turning inward and becoming selfish momentarily, certainly, but reminding myself that I'm not a selfish person and I got into this business because I'm in the business of changing lives and I don't get to dictate whether or not that happens.

[00:14:31] I've already committed to that. That's a, that's, uh, definitely going to happen. So reminding myself that, um, I, that's not who I am. Character like core was very helpful for me. Um, I know other people, um, journal there's someone out there that needs my help. They're just waiting for my call. Um, so there's a lot of affirmations that you can do from a journaling perspective, or if you're not a visual or kinesthetic person, maybe you just say them out loud to yourself in your car.

[00:14:58] There are plenty of conversations I've had. With myself, like a lunatic in the car on the way to sales calls. Uh, cause sometimes you just need to hear it. Um, can you share, can you record some of those next time and then share them with us so we can drop it for an exclusive episode? Absolutely. Not entertaining to anyone, but sure.

[00:15:21] You know, I mean, we all do it right. Whether we wanna admit it or not, if you're a human being, like you've had those conversations for sure. Uh, I love journaling. Um, and, and I like journaling, I journal in the day and drill a night, but I love the idea of just like, boom, I don't like the way I'm feeling right now, or fears coming up or I'm feeling selfish or whatever the case is.

[00:15:42] And just, you know, write that out. Right there on the spot to shift their mindset, because it's really easy to get into a funk. And like, then you bring that energy into the next sales call or the next prospecting call. And then your whole day is a, you know, just a pile up of shitty calls. Cause you didn't address that.

[00:16:00] Yeah, exactly. I think another thing that's really helpful in, I think anybody's world, um, if you do give a shit about what you're doing, uh, as a salesperson, you inevitably have an inbox or text messages from clients that say, Oh my gosh, thank you so much. This has changed X, Y, Z for me. Um, and so again, if I'm feeling like about prospecting or if I have clients that are.

[00:16:28] Um, and I want to encourage them to get out of that. I call it. It's like a shit shift. You got to get out of the shit. You got to shift out of it. So let's do a shift shift, uh, exercise, um, pull up all of the emails and texts that you have. Hopefully you keep a folder of them that are rave reviews, I, or, or gratitude from clients.

[00:16:45] Past now, how can you read those? And think I refuse to find anybody else that I can help in this manner. It's impossible. At least, at least for me, it's impossible. Um, I just really started to feel more and more, a sense of responsibility, um, to, to reach out to folks who, who may need the help too. That's a nice hack.

[00:17:04] I love that. So any positive feedback you've gotten from customers, prospects, save that in a good place to when you need to tap into it for a shit shift. Yeah. Yeah, I keep a journal everywhere. So I don't, I used to be like a day and night journal person too. I'm not a very good process routine person. I, I, who knows what I'm doing at any point during the day.

[00:17:30] Oh, great. So I could be anywhere. Right. And I have, or wherever I am. So I have several journals. I have one in the door of my car. I have one at my desk at home. I have one at my desk here at random place. Every bag I own has a journal in it. Um, and that's because to your point early, like anytime it starts to hit me and like, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:17:51] I gotta get a journal out and like scribble this crap out of my brain. Um, and I, I also have various. Ways of journaling, depending on what I'm going through. Do you journal the same way all the time? I do. For the most part, I rarely freestyle. I'm a process habit, creature. Uh, so I follow like a very militant format.

[00:18:16] Uh it's every once in awhile I'll freestyle, but I did recently. By an extra journal to have one at the office. So I have one at home and I have one at the office. So I'm halfway there. Um, you've already dropped two nice hacks, this journaling hack and, and the, you know, the shit shift. So w and we're just getting warmed up here, sales hustlers.

[00:18:38] So stay tuned just real quick. I know you're going to move on to a really awesome question and I hate to interrupt you, but for my, for my friends out there who are in Salesforce, not militant structured people because, um, A lot of them are not. Uh, sometimes I hear that journaling is like challenging because day in and day out, I am affirmation.

[00:18:59] Statements are just not helpful or in a really dark, deep slump. It's really hard for people to be like, hi, I am the best sales person ever. I imagine everybody has that voice. Um, I am not a selfish person and maybe you're feeling like you are. Yeah. Right, right. Um, so having various ways to journal, I dunno if we have time to get into all the specifics.

[00:19:18] But, um, I have a different like modality of journaling for my clients dependent upon where they are. Um, and so with your net, we'll just go with a really deep, dark slump that we evolved. Absolutely experienced case scenario, worst case scenario, when you're desperately reaching for a journal or a napkin or a piece of paper, anything you have to write some shit down on.

[00:19:42] Yeah, absolutely. Well, you believe and have seen a really more, I feel has changed in keeping a success journal in those moments of deep darkness. Uh, if you can just find one thing during the day that you did successfully and then write about that. So I would say like pick the thing that you did, um, If someone were standing next to you, what would they have said?

[00:20:07] Or if someone witnessed it, what did they say? Um, how did it make you feel? That's it like this, those three things for 30 days, typically people don't need it for 30 days because the thing that it does, and maybe I shouldn't give you the hack, but I'm already talking. Uh, the thing that it does is shifts your perception, right?

[00:20:25] So. You inevitably by day three or four are looking for the thing. That's going to be the success that you write about that day. And invariably, you're creating more and more opportunities for that to happen because you know, you've got to write about it. Um, so it's awesome. It's an, it's an awesome way to, it's another shit shift.

[00:20:44] I liked that. I liked that. Uh, I'm a big fan of, uh, a tip that I picked up from somebody that I interviewed William deck who's, uh, a mindset coach, um, is just journaling and future, future state, like future, you know, so instead of like saying I am, or I want this, or whatever, like just as if it ever happened and then really sitting in like, what that feels like.

[00:21:05] Um, and so I've been, uh, I've been really enjoying that, um, since I've implemented it, um, But all right. So I kind of forgot what I was going to ask you, but I like the journal topic, um, if you're not doing that. So because it here's the, the, the, the big thing here, uh, sales hustlers is. And I learned this a long time ago in order to be better in sales generally, it's not necessarily always, I've got to be a better, closer.

[00:21:34] I gotta be a prospector. Like it's really an inside job. It's personal work. Like I found the more I invested in myself personally, in these sorts of habits and. Things that we're talking about right now, like sales became to a better place where I was serving. I was passionate about what I was doing. I was confident I was able to hit my goals and all of those sorts of things that come with, you know, That sort of success that you might be looking for in sales.

[00:22:01] It's not just sharpening the tools that you have. It's really investing in yourself and being a better version of yourself in order to be a better professional version of yourself. Yeah. A hundred percent. And, uh, as you know, I am. Um, uh, Sandler sales, coach trainer, uh, efficient Nado, um, but Louis has a principle called the success triangle and you can put whatever you want in the middle of the success, wrangled success, as it's determined by you, it could be sales, it could be losing weight.

[00:22:27] It could be as a matter. Um, there are three equal components of that triangle. And their behavior, attitude and technique, um, and attitude, uh, resides at the top of that triangle. Not because it's most important or the angle is bigger, it's an isosceles triangle. Um, but because it has the power to drive both behavior and technique.

[00:22:48] So if your attitude is not one of commitment to helping others or serving others, your behavior is going to suffer. But because the behavior is hard. It's not easy, right? We're not running into burning buildings and saving human lives. It's not that hard, but it requires rejection and vulnerability and all that stuff that people don't get into sales because they don't want to have to feel on a daily basis.

[00:23:09] Um, and then technique, if you're not convicted in your mindset from a technique perspective, you could hear every technique in the book, but if you don't think it's going to work or you're not capable of pulling it off, it's not going to go well. Um, so attitude drives both behavior and technique. But, um, I'm sure that you have behaved your way out of some really crappy mindset in the past as well.

[00:23:31] So while attitude can drive behavior, behavior begets attitude, uh, it's like when you have gone to the gym in the past, and it's like, you live in a beautiful place, I live in a place that is probably rainy and gray and humid and dark too early all the time, except for a couple of months. I do you're right.

[00:23:55] Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I can change the weather patterns of the Midwest, but I will do it maybe. Right. Who knows? Um, I'm pretty powerful. So, uh, inevitably at the end of the day, when he pulled up to the gym, when we used to go to the gym, uh, often. And you're experiencing. Yeah. Right. Uh, when you're experiencing all of that and that you're at the end of the day, you're like, Oh my God, I don't want to do this.

[00:24:19] I am tired. I can think of 18 different excuses and, or, uh, A white claw is it is in my fridge calling my name or, or whatever it is. It sounds easier. We've all been in that place. And I don't have a gym that I go to anymore. I just have a Peloton upstairs, but still happens. Doesn't really matter. Uh, but for whatever reason, right?

[00:24:39] Because you're committed, uh, you walk in or you hop on your bike or your whatever, and you get it done when you're leaving or, or. Entering another room. You are in a much better place. You're like, hell yeah, I'm boss. I'm so I'm so glad I did that. Your attitude is completely different. It's the same thing, uh, and selling.

[00:25:01] So you can behave your way out of it. If you just grind it out, uh, inevitably you will feel better. But I think a big mistake that people make is waiting until they're excited to pick up the phone or they're, you know, motivated. Keep walking, you'll be waiting for a long time. Right, right. Not, but he's as weird as me who gets fired up about prospecting.

[00:25:20] Most people aren't honestly. But, um, no, I love that example of the gym because it really helps put it into perspective, like Oh, okay. Cause I think a lot of people can relate to that. Right. Yeah. I can't do gym at the end of the day or work out that just it's, it's tough. I have to do beginning, beginning of the day works better for me.

[00:25:41] Um, because then that does get me in that positive feeling, good mindset to like, okay, I'm ready to go to the office and kick some ass now. Yeah, absolutely. And secretly, I also do mine in the morning now, but, um, Back in the day when I was a, a single mom and had to get kiddo to daycare in the morning and be at the office by eight, it was definitely a screwed out at four o'clock and get it done because there was no other time it was going to happen.

[00:26:08] Yeah. Yeah. So what you're saying, uh, for all the sales house sellers that are like, okay, I think I can do that is basically, you know, you can basically just go into action and like, get yourself out of that, you know, funk. Like you will feel better if you're just taking action. Um, rather than like waiting to feel good to take action.

[00:26:26] Yeah, but to your point, like cultivate that mindset every day, uh, it is something that you can't get lazy on because it, it starts to trickle in and then it's like support in and then it floods in and you're drowning. Um, so making sure that you are, um, Doing your best to maintain a positive mindset or a productive mindset, um, on a daily basis is very important.

[00:26:52] So what are some tips you have for sellers to maintain a positive mindset where action is not so difficult or challenging? Yeah. Yeah, so many things, all of these things flooded to my mind. So number one, I think part of the problem with feeling like drowning is not having a plan for your day. Um, so while I may be in several different places and not have the militant structure that you do, I have a plan every day on how many outreaches I'm going to make, how many referrals I'm going to ask for.

[00:27:30] Um, I've, I've got a pretty stacked calendar with, with clients and coaching and training and, and strategy consultant work. Um, but I have. Every week. I know exactly how many outreaches I need to make to hit my goal. That is my either monthly goal or yearly goal, longterm short term. I got all the goals. Um, so having a formula for that, because clarity brings energy.

[00:27:52] I think when people are really like, Oh, I haven't done anything. And I'm saying that from my I'm not making fun of anyone. That is my voice saying, well, I'm feeling a little loser. I've done enough. It's because I didn't have clarity on what I should be doing because without clarity. W w what do you, there's no step to take.

[00:28:11] There is no energy to do anything because you don't know what you're running toward or away from. So having clarity on those short-term and long-term goals is, is definitely part of the process so that you can, you can charge forward with that forward momentum, which then breeds a positive mindset in and of itself.

[00:28:29] When you feel good about what you're doing, um, and productive, and not like an imposter in your role. And you're actually helping people. That tends to help your mindset quite a bit. What about for the sellers that are like, maybe not totally passionate about what they're doing or haven't gotten to a place where they're feel like I'm serving, I'm helping, I love doing this.

[00:28:53] It's, it's my duty to find more people that need what I do. Yeah. Um, have you ever felt that way? Have you ever been in a role like that? Yeah.

[00:29:06] Um, probably early, earlier on with other, you know, when I was selling things like that, I just didn't care about that much. They were very transactional, not very complex. Um, you know, the relationship with people were very transactional as well. Um, but I found like I had to like dig really deep, to find a bigger reason of like, you know, Um, I grew up really poor as a kid and was raised by a single mom.

[00:29:32] So I had like bigger reasons of why I did what I did and why I showed up every day and was the first one in last one out and came in on Saturdays to get my list ready. So I had to like dig deep to find like personal reasons of why I could get passionate about what I was doing, but, um, So that's, that's definitely a good way to start, but, you know, I think also a good suggestion is like, maybe you're not doing the right thing.

[00:29:56] Like maybe you need to consider some other options as well. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, and I was curious because I shared my story earlier about, I wasn't passionate about chairs, right. It wasn't the chairs, lots of people are, and a lot of designers would like punch me right now. I'm like, what do you mean?

[00:30:12] They all matters to me. It didn't. I, I wasn't a materialistic person when it came to furniture. Um, I, I liked the brand. I thought it was a good brand, but I wasn't going to die on the Hill for the brand. Right. It didn't have anything to do with that. Um, but I knew that creating spaces where people. Wanted to work instead of where they had to work would bring someone joy.

[00:30:33] Right. And if I could be a part of that, and if I could be a part of being an ambassador of saying, no, don't, don't put this product here because that's not actually going to help anybody think about them on a daily basis. Think about how they're going to use this product. How's this really going to support and benefit them like being their champion when they weren't in the room.

[00:30:51] Uh, was, was really what mattered to me. So knowing that I, I may never meet this person that's affected by her workspace, right. Or their chair. Um, my husband has had several back surgeries. I know how important the chair is to him. So there were just ways to find, um, how I was. In partying, uh, uh, a difference or, or a piece of joy in someone's day that didn't have anything to do with the product itself.

[00:31:16] And so if you can do that, absolutely. I think that's what you were saying too, is, is find something that makes it. Personal to you. And if you can't, absolutely. If you don't have joy in what you're doing from a selling perspective, that's going to show, um, and it's going to require so much energy and effort of you throughout the day that you're going to be exhausted when you get home and have nothing left to give to the people that actually matter in your life.

[00:31:43] Yeah. Yeah. And, and if you don't have. A ton of those, like, you know, messages from clients, like you mentioned, right. Which you can go and like seek those out, you know, like ask some clients like, Hey, why did you go with us? Like, why did you think we were the best option? You know, who else did you consider?

[00:32:00] And like, get some of that positive feedback. Cause that will fuel some passion of like, Hey, this is awesome. I'm actually really helping people in a way that maybe I didn't even realize. Yeah. That's a great idea. All right. Awesome. Emily, thank you so much for coming on. I really enjoyed this topic.

[00:32:18] Unfortunately, we didn't find anything to argue or debate about, so maybe next time. Um, but before we wrap it up, just let folks know any final thoughts. Uh, let our sales hustlers know where they can find out more and follow you as well. Yeah. Final thoughts are, um, well, while it is helpful to be passionate about what you're doing and believe in what you're doing and be convicted in it and committed to it.

[00:32:42] It's not an outlet for you to get your needs met on an emotional level. Right? There's too much rejection involved in this game. Uh, there there's there's it has to be about the other person on the other side of the table and helping them as opposed to serving what you need. For for you. Um, and you can find, uh, lots of information about me@ellucian.com.

[00:33:06] Uh, I'm one of the heads under the options for searching out consultants. Um, yeah, that's it. Awesome. Thanks again, Emily. And if you enjoy today's episode, write us a review, share it with your friends and as always, we're listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning into this episode of sales hustle.

[00:33:27] Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to. Sales cast.com check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host collum Mitchell. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.