Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
May 3, 2021

Episode #92 S1-EP92 Authentic Selling and Cold Emailing - The Human Way with Jeff Kirchick

Jeff Kirchick joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Let’s hear from Jeff about his sales story that started when he stumbled upon it accidentally and eventually fell in love with it. He also tackles the details about his distinctive approach that works - the human way.


Jeff Kirchick is the Strategic Director at Cresta, an artificial intelligence company in the CX space backed by a16z, Greylock Partners, and Sequoia Capital. Prior to that, he was the Vice President of Enterprise Sales at Next Caller, a Y-Combinator backed technology company that was recently acquired by Pindrop Security and where he made a successful exit by leading the revenue function. 

Apart from having the skills that rendered his unparalleled sales success for over a decade, Jeff is also a well-known thought leader in the sales industry and frequently spoke at events. He enjoys the opportunity to help mentor and coach younger sales professionals that are looking to get their career and sales record started. 

As someone who is very passionate about authenticity in sales and possesses a Princeton University Degree in Creative Writing, Jeff published the book - Authentic Selling: How to Use the Principles of Sales in Everyday Life, which serve as a guide for sales practitioners to understand how they can implement and express authenticity to their selling philosophy. 

Authentic Selling: How to Use the Principles of Sales in Everyday Life is available for purchase on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08QDPQVB4/

Find out more and reach out to Jeff Kirchick through his LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffkirchick/

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Transcript

Episode 92 - Jeff Kirchick

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I've got a fantastic guest and we're going to talk about some interesting topics as always, and keeping it tactical for you. I'm going to be talking with Jeff Kirchick. He is the strategic sales director. Uh, at Cresta and author of authentic selling Jeff, welcome to the show.

[00:00:52] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me. So yeah, just before where we get into these interesting topics of authentic selling and cold emailing in a human way, and maybe a few other things, just give us the short, you know, a cliff notes version of your sales story. Sure. So I, um, I kind of fell into sales by accident, I guess you could say, I went to Princeton for my undergrad and I was originally going to do economics and, uh, I envisioned this life in wall street or something, you know, like a lot of people do.

[00:01:24] And, uh, I think I got a pretty bad grade on one of my economics. Kind of there's something in my sophomore year and I pivoted into English and creative writing. And a lot of people made fun of me because they're like, you're never going to get a job after college, you know, fo you know, writing poems and stuff in the library.

[00:01:39] Um, but I fell into this, this tech job out of college. Uh, I remember, you know, they, they, I think they said something like, you can write your own paycheck, like the harder you work, the more money you'll you'll make. And I had a strong work ethic and I fell into it and I fell in love with it. So I've been working in sales for a little over a decade.

[00:01:55] Uh, most recently I spent seven and a half years as one of the first employees at next caller. Uh, which was, I was the head of sales there. And, uh, they were recently acquired by pin drop security a little over a month ago. And, uh, I viewed that as an opportunity for me to take on a new challenge. And I recently joined Cresta as a strategic sales director.

[00:02:15] Um, and Cresta is a artificial intelligence company in the CX space. That's catching a lot of attention right now. They're backed by Sequoia, Andreessen, Horowitz, and gray lock. I don't even know if there's any company in human history that has all three. And if there are, there's not many. So I was really excited to join the team here.

[00:02:32] And, uh, yeah, it's a little bit about my background and obviously I wrote the book recently as well, and, uh, that was a lot of fun. Awesome. All right. So tell me like, w w from what you thought you were going to do to what you ended up doing, like when did you decide you were just going to go all in, on, on, on, you know, mastering the craft of sales or just, you know, sticking to that path.

[00:02:53] Sure. Well, what I thought I was going to be doing most of my life growing up was becoming a professional athlete. So, um, I would daydream about, you know, being a pro sports player pretty much every day throughout my childhood. I don't know. At what point I real, I think there was a point before I got to college where I realized that wasn't going to happen, but I think even once I fell into sales, Uh, I didn't necessarily know that I was going to go into that a hundred percent, but I think the moment probably when I knew that I really enjoyed it was when I started actually getting customers.

[00:03:26] And when customers were actually were kind of telling me, Hey, I, you know, Thank you for selling me this product. You know, I'm glad that you sold me this thing. And I think it's because ultimately what I want to do with my life is become a screenwriter. And the reason I want to become a screenwriter is because I like touching people's lives in a positive way.

[00:03:46] And so I think selling is very similar to screenwriting and that way I believe it or not, I know they probably feel very different. To most people, but in sales you are, if you do a good job and you bring people value, you are touching their lives in a positive way. And I think I like helping people. Um, so I think once I saw that I could help people through this job and that I was making their lives better.

[00:04:09] That's when I decided like, yeah, I really want to do this. I get it. I get great joy, uh, bringing joy to others. And, uh, I think that's when I decided like this is going to be a career for me. Wow. Okay. So tell me, um, let's talk a little bit about what to expect in the book, authentic selling. Like we talked about a few things.

[00:04:26] One thing that really intrigued me was cold emailing in, in a human way. So let's dig into that for a second. Sure. Um, so you know what to expect in the bowl? I guess we'd go straight into the cold emailing stuff. So, I mean, I have a chapter in the book it's called weirder than Waldo. And, uh, and actually I built an online course called weirder than Waldo it's for aspiring SDRs inside salespeople who do cold outreach.

[00:04:54] And the reason it's called weirder than Waldo. Let's call and I'm sure you, uh, did where's Waldo growing up, you know? Yeah. And my kids do now, so. Okay. Uh, yeah, it's still as fun as it was when I was a kid. Yeah. And it's, and it's pretty frustrating. Cause Waldo for those who don't know is this guy where it's like a red and white striped, you know, sweatshirt.

[00:05:14] And he has a, he has like a winter hat on, even at the beach and everything. And he's wearing these. Big glasses he's really, he stands out from the crowd and yet your job is to find him in these books. In fact, they had a video game, uh, to find Waldo, uh, back in the day that I, that I bought for some reason as well.

[00:05:31] Um, but the guy was impossible to find despite being super weird. And the point of the chapter is that if you want to really stand out from the pack, you really need to be weirder than Waldo. You need to be the weirdest person that that person is hearing from. And I think there's a misconception in sales and like approaching people that you need to be quote unquote professional.

[00:05:53] Um, and I think that's completely erroneous. I mean, you don't want to be unprofessional. You don't want to insult people or like, Swear at them or do things like that. But, um, at the end of the day, people are getting contacted by so many people, so many vendors constantly that if you can just do one little thing to make someone smile, if you can just be a little bit different and authentically different, uh, it goes a long way.

[00:06:18] And what I mean by authentically being authentic is really, it doesn't mean you need to be authentically like good or authentically. Cool. Right? Like Dennis Rodman was. Probably one of the weirdest people to ever walk on the planet to the point where. A North Korean dictator who doesn't want anything to do with people in the United States wants to be best friends with this guy.

[00:06:40] Um, he's he wasn't great. I mean, he was good at basketball. He wasn't amazing, but he was almost as famous as Michael Jordan, probably because people embraced him for being himself. You know, whether, whether you liked him or you didn't like him, it didn't matter. You knew that he was being honest. You knew that he was presenting an honest version of himself.

[00:06:59] So you took everything. You said it. Face value. And so that's what I mean by this. And when you reach out to people and cold outreach, there's a whole formula. And I know we probably don't have time to get into it, but I really try to be very, very different and very, very strange. And one of the examples that I give in the book and that I've given in some of these interviews is one time when I was reaching out to American airlines like eight years ago.

[00:07:22] I cited a, uh, a, uh, a dialogue between American airlines and my cat on Twitter. Um, my cat, obviously doesn't tweet. I created a Twitter account for my cat as a joke. And my cat me got into this back and forth with American airlines and went viral on the internet. And my subject line was something like, Hey, ma you know, American airlines tweets with my cat, you know, so if you're getting that email, it's not, you know, it's not necessarily professional or like relevant to what I'm selling, but it's also not something you're deleting.

[00:07:51] You're not deleting that email because it's probably the most exciting thing that happened to you that day, while you're sitting in your corporate office in Dallas or, or whatever. So, um, I try to do stuff like that. That brings a smile out of people and shows that I can connect with them in a human way that I can, that I can connect with them.

[00:08:08] Their brand in a meaningful way and not just give them the same mumbo-jumbo that they're expecting. Yeah. I love that because I mean, you got to stand out right. And. You gotta be creative. I mean, sellers have to be creative. They have to be marketers these days. They have to be able to, you know, break the pattern of what people are used to seeing.

[00:08:31] And, and I like, I love what you said earlier, which is like, it doesn't have to be. It's not that what you wrote is not professional, right? But it's not the standard mold of like a professional, you know, corporate stuffy sort of email. Um, and, uh, you know, short copy clearly works better than longer copy in, in my opinion, from what I've tested, I'm totally open to using emojis embracing video, like just really talking.

[00:08:58] Almost like I'm text messaging, a friend, or just keeping it somewhat casual, but still professional. Um, what are your thoughts on some of those things? Absolutely. And like, you know, I, I know that these, um, examples or analogies to dating are kind of trite. In the sales world, but like, even, even as simple as giving someone an out, I think is a good thing to do, right?

[00:09:19] Cause like the example I give in my book is let's say you and your best, let's say you and your best friend, you, you take a romantic interest in your best friend and you don't want to jeopardize your friendship. But you know, this is something that happens all the time. People are friends and then they want to become more than friends and whatever.

[00:09:34] If one person does one person doesn't. But if you were the person who was interested in the other, you would probably say something like, look, I'm interested in, you know, Maybe having a relationship with you, but, but I don't want to jeopardize our friendship. So if you're not interested, it's okay. That's like a thing that you would say to somebody that you're close with, that you would give them an out, you know what I mean?

[00:09:52] You would go, you would, you would tell them like, well, I'm not going to blow up our friendship cause you don't want to date me. And so I, it's kind of similar, like in a cold email, Like why, if you would treat your best friend and the people you have the best relationships with that way, why would you not treat your customer that way or your prospect?

[00:10:07] I mean, you're trying to build a great relationship with them, aren't you? So why, w why wouldn't you mirror the behaviors that you exhibit with people that you really trust and that you enjoy spending time with? So, uh, Colin, that's kind of a long-winded way of answering your question. I agree with you, but, you know, give you an example, like, I think.

[00:10:26] At the end of an email saying, Hey, if you're not interested, it's okay. I think it's subconsciously signals to the other person. Like I'm not a sales weasel. Who's just going to bulldog you into meeting and then following up with you constantly until you buy my product. I think little cat, you mentioned being casual.

[00:10:40] I view that in the same lens as kind of speaking, like a human being, like the way that you would normally talk to someone. Um, I think it's funny when people sign off with. Things like cheers, you know, like who says, you say cheers to anybody? I don't say cheers. I think British people might say cheers, but, um, you know, I try to just talk to people the way I would talk to my best friends and, and hope that they will see me as somebody who's not putting on a different hat because when they, when they see you as someone who's putting on a different hat, They, they feel like you're not in it for the right reasons.

[00:11:11] You know, you want, you want to show that you're in it for the right reasons and that you don't have to change your personas to have a, uh, an honest conversation with somebody. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I think that that's, that's relevant. In, in, in all communication with your customers, right. We're talking email, but this is relevant when you're talking to them, you know, later on in the sales process and also, you know, in your, in your beginning conversations with them through the demo, whatever your sales process looks like, showing them that you're being yourself.

[00:11:43] And being authentic and, you know, something that we kind of said we would talk about, which I think is a good time to bring it up now is the customer's not always. Right. Right. Challenge your challenge, your customer challenge, your prospect, like you said before we hit record is like, don't just be a yes man or woman.

[00:11:58] Right. Um, and I think that that's like a great way. To build rapport and trust and establish that, you know, you're equals, we're both, you know, human beings. Like, you know, I'm not just some sleazy sales person that's gonna put on some sort of hat to try to trick you into going on this journey with me.

[00:12:17] Yeah, no, for sure. So yeah, you know, the customer is not always right. I agree with you by the way. I mean, it's really all about authenticity because again, if let's say you're. Let's say your, your husband or your wife does something that pisses you off now in that situation, because you've built a, you know, presumably you're married to this person, you have a good relationship.

[00:12:38] You could probably say, Hey, this thing that you did, it kind of pissed me off. And here's why, right. You might not don't point fingers. You won't say you're an evil person or, um, you know, you, you, you did this on purpose, but you just, hopefully not, hopefully, hopefully. I think the way in some cases, I don't know, some people get angry, but you know, I think the right way to deescalate always is just to explain how something makes you feel and nothing more because it gives the other person a chance to either say, you know what, you're right to feel that way, because I screwed up or, you know what I didn't mean to make you feel that way.

[00:13:07] And here's why, and either way you'll feel better. Right. But if you point fingers at people, they get defensive. Um, but you know, the point being like, you know, if your husband or your wife, they upset you, presumably you would say something to them and you would, you would talk it through. And what ends up happening is your relationship got better because you were able to say something and you were able to work through it in a sensitive issue.

[00:13:28] Now, when you don't do this to a customer, you're, you're, you're losing that opportunity to improve the relationship. And that's counterintuitive for people they think, Oh, if I just say yes to everything that they want, I'll get the deal done. It's like, well, yeah, that might be true. And you might get the deal done, but then you're gonna.

[00:13:41] Ended up signing up for 10 times more work than what you wanted for that deal. And, uh, and also you might not get the deal done because they might perceive that you're just a yes, man, who's desperate for a deal. And so you want to build, you want to build a real relationship with someone. You need to show them that you're willing to be honest and with them and they'll respect you more.

[00:14:01] They might not like it in the moment, but they will ultimately respect you more in the long run. Um, one of the examples I give, and this is kind of controversial. I actually got a little bit of heat for this, but, you know, there was the guy who was dragged off the airplane on the United flight many years ago, David Dao and the, in the initial reaction to that was that everyone was like, Oh, this guy was, you know, they, they didn't have to do that to him.

[00:14:23] He was in the right, you know, United airlines is bad. You know, everyone hates the airlines. They're always the ones that are guilty whenever there's a customer service issue. And I'm not, I'm not taking a stance on this necessarily. I mean, it does, it did feel extreme that he had to get dragged off an airplane, but if you peel the onion on that story, it turned out that like, You know, everyone else who was asked to leave left, uh, with no problem.

[00:14:48] It was in the contract, it was selected at random. They were giving them like a thousand dollars worth of flight credits, accommodations, a flight. The next day he had apparently some anger management issues and he apparently had bribed some of his patients to have sex with him. He's like a dentist. I mean, he had like all sorts of skeletons in his closet, but all you get is the headline.

[00:15:08] The headline is that the, the, the customer is right. You know, he was wrong. The airline. And screwed them because they're the big corporate evil giant. And when you actually looked at it, it was like, I actually felt bad because I had written an email to the CEO of United. When that happened. I was one of those angry.

[00:15:25] You know, Karen's who was like, Hey, you should have you screwed up. And then when I found out more about the story, I was like, you know what? I don't know if the customer was right there. You know, I think the customer was being somewhat belligerent. And again, I'm not saying one of them is right or wrong, but what I am saying is that you need to peel the onion to figure out some of these things a lot of the times, and that's missing today.

[00:15:45] And a lot of what's going on. I mean, it's all a lot of headlines without people really. Digging to understand, you know, who's right. And who's really wrong. And a lot of, and a lot of things that go on. Yeah. I mean, you got to, in those situations, like you got to dig deeper, right. To find more of the story, right.

[00:16:05] Or what all of the facts are and same thing with your customer relationships, right? Like the. The response or the answer or the piece of information that your customer, especially early in the sales process that they give you. That's usually not all of the information. There's you got to dig deeper, you got to ask better questions.

[00:16:21] You got to challenge them to think outside of what they're just telling every other vendor that they're already talking to, which is the biggest way to build trust, to build rapport and to show that like, you're confident in what you do, where you're willing to challenge them and not just. You know, say yes to anything and everything that they want.

[00:16:38] Maybe you don't have a particular feature that they're looking for. Maybe you don't, you know, a hundred percent solve everything that they're looking to solve. Maybe you're not willing to comply to some sort of terms that they're, you know, demanding or whatever the case is. Those are all, you know, examples that you come across in many different sales conversations, but pushing back a little bit in, in and shows your level of confidence in yourself and your product and.

[00:17:02] What you do, um, and also builds a level of trust and rapport with them that most people aren't willing to do for sure. And that's what it's all about. I mean, you need to show people, I mean, look, they call salespeople solutions providers for a reason. I mean, you're providing a solution to someone else's problem.

[00:17:21] It's something I talk about in the book, uh, is that we're all salespeople in some way. I mean when your therapist tries to solve your problems, how is he any different than a salesperson you're paying, you're paying the therapist, they're sitting down and you're talking through your problems and then they're solved.

[00:17:36] They're trying to help you solve your problem, right? I mean, it's really no different. And so you need to, there's a, there's an unfortunate stigma, Collin, I think when it comes to salespeople, people who have sales in their title, they're viewed as something different than everyone else. You know, the college admissions counselor is no different than you and me.

[00:17:53] You know, you and I sell products. The college admissions counselor is arguably worse than you and me because they sell a product that isn't even a great product anymore. You know what I mean? They sell something that's dying and is overpriced and that you don't really need to have a good career, honestly.

[00:18:09] I mean, I'm not somebody who's super anti. Higher education. But my point is that we have, we have an idea in our minds about what is a good sales person versus a bad sales person. And if you have sales in your title, it makes you a bad salesperson and that's just that's right. I mean, you, and you see so many people changing their title to not have sales in it because of the stigma that it has.

[00:18:31] Right. Exactly. And to me, it's like, look, we're all trying. Our entire lives are negotiation. Even eating your broccoli and having dessert when you're a kid or like, that's something of a negotiation with your parents. We're constantly, those are, those are sales battles that I lose more often than I'd like to admit as a parent.

[00:18:50] Probably. Yeah. Um, but there, you got me, your kids. Do you have any, they were going to be great salespeople, then they've got it. They've got it in the DNA. Um, I mean, it's interesting, like I've, you know, I've been in sales about as long as you and, and I consider myself half decent and, uh, those are, those are tough sales and, and what's interesting, even with my.

[00:19:09] Five-year-old well, he's six now, but when he was around five at the time, some of the tactics that I would use to try to convince him of these things that you talk about, like eating this vegetables or having dessert or not, uh, you know, then he started to use those back on me and it was like, he's a fast learner, man.

[00:19:26] Yeah. It's like, uh, you know, uh, the, the student becomes the master, you know, so you gotta be careful. Um, but yeah, I mean, just to, to tie up the point, I mean, it's, it's. Look at the end of the day, we're all selling stuff. So if you don't have, like, if you feel, I think what I'm getting at is that you need to have a level of conviction as a salesperson.

[00:19:44] Yes. And that you're providing value, you know? And if you don't feel that way, you're in the wrong job. I mean, I personally can't sell something I don't believe in. Um, and so as long as I believe that I'm helping somebody, it's not very hard for me to have the conviction to stand up for myself. You know, if I, because I, I know that it, I know that it is valuable and I know that they should value my time and respect it.

[00:20:06] Right. So as long as you have something and you have conviction behind what you're selling, it really, shouldn't be hard to stand up for yourself. Yep. Yep. No, I totally agree. And, and, and there's, there's plenty of opportunities to showcase that with, you know, in the beginning stages of a relationship, which sets the tone for the entire relationship thereafter, depending on how long that lasts or how long your sales process is or whether they move forward or not.

[00:20:33] Yep. Yep. A hundred percent. Yep. All right. So let's, let's talk about another thing that, uh, I believe is, is covered in, in, in the book, authentic selling as well, which is showing versus telling. Sure. So the chapter and the chapter of the name of the chapter for that is inception. Um, so I don't want to spoil spoil it, but then again, this movie's been out for a long time.

[00:20:57] So if you haven't seen it yet, it's kind of on you. Uh, if you're listening to this and I spoil it, but you know, there's a movie inception with Leonardo DiCaprio is a great movie. I think award winning won a lot of awards and basically there's a guy cyto, he's a. Like a Japanese businessman and he wants this other guy.

[00:21:17] I think his name's Robert in the movie. He wants this guy, Robert to dissolve his business because Robert's business is competitive to side-to-side business. Now you might be wondering like, probably should just go talk to him and just tell him to dissolve his business. Uh, but no, that's not what happens instead we get two and a half hours of.

[00:21:35] Crazy cinema, you know, S you know, like crazy effects and, you know, all sorts of action that happened instead. What does he do? He hires this like band of thieves to like go into Roberts dreams. So like when Robert's sleeping, they can like infiltrate his brain through this process called inception. And like, once they're in the dream, they can get him to like dream again and like go into like a dream within a dream.

[00:22:01] Like they go several layers into his dreams. So they're like deep into his subconscious and you would think, okay, they're probably going to get out a megaphone and yell, dissolve your business. And they don't do that. In fact, what they end up doing instead is. They facilitate a moment between Robert and his dying father, where Robert's dying.

[00:22:22] Father tells him I want you to be your own man. And it's that moment when Robert wakes up, he realizes that his father wanted him to dissolve his business and create his own business. So he comes to the conclusion. On his own. So that's inception and that's how you, you know, showing versus telling is you don't go to people and yell at them or tell them what to do because people like ideas when they come to the ideas on their own when they're there their own ideas.

[00:22:50] And I'll give you an example of this in, in the real world. And this is kind of a sensitive issue, but I, I actually think it's important that people hear this because it will, it will help with some of these important issues. Um, I have a best friend who's black. Uh, I got pulled over for a speeding ticket.

[00:23:08] This was maybe, I don't know, seven or eight years ago. And I remember, you know, to me it was no big deal. And I just like, you know, I mean, I didn't like getting pulled over. I was nervous and I didn't like dealing with the cop. And I remember my friend had his hands on his lap the whole time and he was very scared.

[00:23:26] And I remember talking to him after that and he talked about how he was nervous for his life. That like. You know, he put his hand, he was taught to put his hands on his lap so that the officer could see that he didn't have a weapon. And that was a moment where I learned a lot about race racism. And as it is perceived by people of color, he didn't tell me, you know, he didn't tell me that I should believe anything or this.

[00:23:49] So he just told me his own story and I witnessed it myself. And I learned that. Now I contrast that with, you know, last year there was obviously this tragic. Murder of George Floyd. And what happened after that is like a lot of my friends put like a black square on Instagram, uh, or something just to like show some solidarity.

[00:24:07] And that was kind of more, in my opinion, a way of telling people. What they should believe. It was a way of saying like, you either are on you, you either believe in not being racist or you're, or you are a racist, you either post a black square or you're a racist or something like that. And to me, that's, that's way less effective.

[00:24:24] I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I, I think I did it myself, but, uh, the point is is that if you want to get people to adopt an idea, Telling them to adopt the idea, literally shoving it in their face. Almost never works. In fact, if anything, it makes people dig in their heels. If they have even a modicum of disagreement with you.

[00:24:44] But if you show somebody how to feel, if you show someone how you feel in a certain situation and to let that rub off on them, then that is a lot more powerful. And I, and again, I'm not saying that, uh, these, these, uh, These social justice initiatives are not working or that they're bad or anything like that.

[00:25:02] I think it's great, but the more effective way to get people on board with an idea is to show them that idea. And that's something I learned very in a very serious way by experiencing with my friend, what he felt and how it was contrasted with my own experience, uh, in a very tense moment. Um, so that's, that's kind of a real life example that I, that I use in the book as well.

[00:25:24] But, um, but that I think is important, uh, in today's dialogue. Yeah. So how do you put that into context, like in a sales role? Like, I mean, a couple things to kind of pull out from that, right? Is that. Show people don't tell them or, you know, lead them to coming to their own ideas. Right. As like you being the best option or being willing to go on a journey of change with you, uh, whatever that looks like, how do you show them versus telling them?

[00:25:56] And I know from, from my experiences like people, remember how you make them feel. Right. So, you know what you say and how you say are, you know, somewhat important, but how you make somebody feel through like you're active listening and you're challenging them and making them think of things that they wouldn't have thought of otherwise or asking them questions that nobody else is asking them.

[00:26:16] Those are all things that make them feel different than the other experiences. So what are some. Tactical, uh, you know, things that you can share on, like, how do you show somebody versus tell them in a sales conversation or a sales relationship with a customer, a prospect. Fantastic question. I'm glad you asked it because I hate when people give you these like nebulous tips and then, and then they don't get, they don't actually give you any practical advice for how to live them out, because it all sounds good on paper, but then it's like, well, how do I actually adopt this in a, in a, in a real life setting?

[00:26:52] So in therapy, Um, like in like psychology, there's, there's a couple of different, uh, there's a, there's all, there's all different sorts of therapy, but a couple of them are popular. One is talk therapy, which is where you just talk about issues. And another form of therapy is called cognitive behavioral therapy or otherwise known as CBT.

[00:27:12] Um, talk therapy. They're, they're very different. Uh, but I'll explain both and, and how they apply to sales. You're probably wondering, like, why is this guy talking about, you know, therapy and psychology and things like that. But the reason talk therapy works is because when people are forced to talk about a pain point in their lives, when they're forced to talk it out and like, cause a lot of times you think things, you think about things in your head, But like you don't, when you think in your head, it's finite, like you'll think about it.

[00:27:38] And then you're done thinking when you're, when you're forced to talk about something at nauseum, you start naturally saying things that you weren't prepared to say. You start thinking about elements of the problem that you weren't thinking about before, because you're being forced to open up to talk about it.

[00:27:55] Um, and so when I, when I'm going with the talk therapy thing is that when you ask great questions and customers are being forced to like reconcile with everything that's going on and things that they haven't considered they'll often talk themselves into a solution. Um, a lot of the best selling is actually where.

[00:28:11] You've done like 10% of the talking and the other person has just talked themselves into buying your product. And you're just sitting there doing nothing. And I know that the people listening they're like, well, that sounds way too easy, but it really, it can be. If, if people have pain, you get them to talk about that pain.

[00:28:27] Um, You, you can get them there. But I think something that will resonate more with your audiences is the other path, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy. It looks at things in this way. It basically says you think you have this pain in your life and you're prescribing it to this thing.

[00:28:43] But what if it's not that thing? Like, what are the possible, what other possibilities exist and what are the likelihood of those possibilities? So let's, I'll give an example. Let's say that you and I are scheduling this podcast. Let's say I was rude and I rescheduled on you three times. And your, your gut is to say this guy, Jeff is a real asshole.

[00:29:01] You know, I'm doing him a favor. He's getting on my podcast. He keeps rescheduling on me. Um, you might get angry at me, but like, you're, you know, if you're doing CBT, you would ask yourself like, what other possibilities are possible? You know, we live in the era of COVID. Is Jeff dealing with a sick family member?

[00:29:16] Um, did he just start a new job at Cresta, but by the way, the people listening, I didn't reschedule three times. We scheduled once. But the point is, is that when you, when you're forced to ask yourself those questions, you start to realize, you know, as much as I, I'm not thrilled that this person rescheduled on me three times, there are other possibilities that exist that I hadn't really thought about because I was going with my emotional response was, which is that Jeff's an asshole.

[00:29:39] Right? So. Where I'm going with the CBT thing is that the types of questions that you ask a customer. So if we're gonna get really specific here, the types of questions that you ask the customer are like questions where you are literally asking them about what other possibilities exist besides the one that they've already concluded in their mind.

[00:29:56] A lot of times the resistance that you get from customers and like dealing with objections for example, is that they have a certain view of things and that's fine. Everybody can form their own conclusion, but just because they have a conclusion, doesn't mean it's the right conclusion. You need to ask them like, okay, That's great that you feel that way, but what are the, what other possibilities exist here?

[00:30:15] You know, what, what else is possible? I'm just throwing out, just throwing out all the possibilities and get them to start talking about that and then get them to, to say, okay, well, what's the likelihood of those possibilities. Are these farfetched? Are they, are they very possible? And just not being looked at, like, should we dig into some of these possibilities?

[00:30:31] And so, um, again, it's by asking questions, but it's by using kind of that methodology where people are forced to reconcile with alternatives, that their emotions kind of precluded them from considering originally, um, So I hope that that's a better, more concrete way of, yeah. I mean, that is a tactical way of, of, of how to, you know, show versus tell with your, your prospects.

[00:30:56] Um, Jeff, it's been fantastic having you on, uh, any final thoughts before we wrap it up here. Where can people find the book? We'll drop the link in the show notes for them? Anything else you want to let the sales hustlers know before we wrap this up? Yeah, something I always tell the mentees that I have is like, I think it's a breath of fresh air when people tell you that authenticity can win and selling because.

[00:31:20] It allows you to just be you a little bit more and not having to like, think about all these rules that you need to follow. And I think that's a breath of fresh air for people. Um, but, uh, the book, yeah, authentic selling how to use the principles of sales and everyday life is available on amazon.com.

[00:31:37] It's in, uh, every format. And if it's even an audible, if you want to listen to my lovely voice, uh, you can, you can check that out. Um, and yeah, I, I, sir, I sincerely appreciate the opportunity Collin, to chat with you. I learned about your story before the podcast. Uh you're uh, you're doing some great things, so it's a real privilege just to be, uh, to be here with you.

[00:31:57] Awesome. Thank you so much, Jeff. Appreciate it. Uh, I'd love to have you on we'll drop those links there in the show notes for you sales hustlers. And if you enjoy today's episode, write us a review, share it with your friends and as always we're listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle.

[00:32:14] Are you a sales professional? Looking to take your sales career to the next level. If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales, cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.