Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
April 28, 2021

Episode #90 S1-EP90 The Mission to Bring More Joy Into Sales with Amy Hrehovcik

Amy Hrehovcik joins Collin Mitchell in this special live episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Let’s hear from Amy about her sales story that started with clear intentions and waved through rough waters of the sales industry to where she is now, bringing more joy in sales, and releasing her new podcast - Revenue, Real.

Amy Hrehovcik is a Sales Enablement Pioneer who is a Member and Advisor of RevGenius, a Think Tank that builds sales, marketing and rev-ops space dedicated to individuals who wish to learn, share, support and grow with each other. She is also one of the founding members of the revered LinkedIn B2B Sales Pro Community - Sales Hacker, Inc.

Being a sales professional who molds cognitive behavior therapy into her sales practice, Amy’s most favorite metric for improvement and success is the learning indicator for SDRs. Driven the belief that sales is the greatest profession in the world, she finds pleasure in creating experiences that teach, train, and coach humans in its excellent journey. 

With such an impressive track record in her professional career, Amy started her journey as an Account Executive for ADP Major Accounts in 2006 and moved on to notable companies like Citi Subsidiary, Thomson Reuters, Viewabill, NextRequest, Ailey, and Remesh. 

Find out more and reach out to Amy Hrehovcik through her LinkedIn -

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Episode 90 - Amy Hrehovcik

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to a special, special, special episode. Today we are doing sales hustle live and I've got Amy Rahab check. I pronounced it properly with lots of practice. So that was excellent. Excellent. Good job. Great job. Amy. I'm really excited to have you on.

[00:00:56] We're going to talk about revenue real. We're going to talk about the new podcasts that you have dropping on Monday. And we're going to talk about some exciting topics. So I'm excited to jump in Amy. Welcome to the show. Well, I thank you very much. Call him to tell him I'm very excited to be here. We have a bonus guest today, Jackson.

[00:01:15] What's up, man. He clearly likes to be on camera, I suppose. I've been well, you know, uh, there's so many fun jokes right now that I can make that I can't decide. So I'm going to have to pass. So why don't you just give folks a little bit of background, tell them a little bit about your sales story before we jump in my sales story.

[00:01:36] Yeah. Okay. So I was raised by a seller. So it started before I could walk pretty much. Um, and it was a very intentional decision that happened after the first career. Right at 21 and a half now almost 22. So it was a quick right pivot. However, um, first thing I did was to seek out the place that had the best training sales training programs.

[00:02:03] So that was ADP and I suppose sales hustlers, because that's a really important piece. And I know I had the pleasure of interviewing you, but like that's so important. So many people are quick to, you know, Sell the sexy product or, you know, look for the biggest pay or whatever, but like when you're early in your career, like getting, you know, good training and good mentorship is so important.

[00:02:26] Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think I used the word stock when I tell the story often that I stocked out ADP and, uh, no, but it was, it was a great experience, but I'll even add, uh, just, uh, Quick caveat to that idea of how important training is, and that I specifically at the beginning and really often, but the fundamentals, right.

[00:02:50] Understanding the fundamentals in a way that it like are like building blocks, right. So that we can, you know, take them apart and put them together. So critical, critical, critical, and massive opportunity for any change agents out there that are looking to, you know, establish themselves as a, or their teams.

[00:03:09] Right. As a talent factory. Right. Anyway. So I sold software, um, or I, that was a tech sales role and I, you know, fell in love, fell in love with technology and I, my last job, um, carrying a bag was Thomson Reuters. And I was working in the legal sector court data, um, you know, was in, uh, the top 1% as they say, so last three years were pretty, pretty strong and yeah, then I got bitten by the startup bug, so was able to, um, have, uh, A really exciting experience with a very sexy legal tech startup that was acquired.

[00:03:53] So it was the chief of customer value there working in the, uh, again, the legal tech space. And then it was, you know, big, big, big question Mark, like what to do next. And so pivoted after ma many, many of, uh, uncomfortable conversations with myself and what I wanted to do and who I wanted to help. And so pivoted to sales enablement.

[00:04:14] About, I don't know, six, seven years ago now. And have since built out two teams or two departments here and yeah, that's my story. And I'm sticking to it. I'm usually much more professional, but I've got my son with me here at the office today. He might stop in occasionally and I don't know, he might have some thoughts on some of these things, nothing lasts.

[00:04:38] Let's let's see how, yeah. If he had any butterflies in his stomach for day, um, No, I, I think that, okay. So tell me a little bit about. You know, your LinkedIn headline says on a mission to bring more joy to B2B tech sales. And I know that's something that's like super close to your heart. So just tell it, like the sales, hustlers listening live or into the podcast, like, what does that mean?

[00:05:05] Why is that so important to you? Yeah, so there's a mental health aspect too, to my story and it's out there, right? So it's not a secret. However, I, um, I think that there's a misconception in, as it relates to sales and mental health. I mean, there's tons of misconceptions and stigmas and whatever with mental health.

[00:05:28] However, the idea that, um, like top performance is indicative of health, right? So that, wasn't a thing for me and many, many, many others. However, after going through, um, You know, my journey and kind of having lots of time to, to think and to process and to really, to level up multiple times over since then, what I've realized, um, is that we, as in the Western society really.

[00:06:00] Have a R the way that we structure our definition of success, our interpretation of success, it's based on an outcome. Right? And so this was the society that we were all, at least in the States like born into. But when I get this job, when I get this deal, when I get this promotion, then I'll be happy and in as a were.

[00:06:21] And so one, that's not how it works. And more importantly, if. For sellers, right. That if we allow that frame to continue, right. The reality is that that never happens for us. Right. Because, you know, if we hit our month, we hit our quarter, we've got, you know, maybe the weekend to think about it and appreciate it.

[00:06:45] And then it starts all over again. And so part of, um, No. I, I know this firsthand, like early on in my sales career, I definitely tied my happiness or my self worth to what I achieved or didn't paycheck too. I got off on that one. How I, how much I was baking, like compared to my age bracket. Yeah. And it's.

[00:07:13] This is a tough profession, right? This is, there are swings. And at least, you know, 15 years ago, when I was like into a, you know, neural linguistic programming, like just repeat affirmations in the mirror and like, you know, just convince yourself which doesn't work by the way. Um, there's, this is a different thing than just straight affirmation.

[00:07:34] So I don't mean to dig on anybody that loves affirmations if it works excellent. Anyway, I misinterpreted a lot of. What we were supposed to do with the way that we thought about those swings and handled those swings. And I, yeah. And then I doubled triple, quadruple down over a decade. Right. So I, as sellers were told like, Oh, you know, sales is an emotional roller coaster.

[00:07:57] Like just deal with it. Right. That's part of the job. Yeah. So, um, yeah, there's, there's a lot of fun angles there. However, for me personally, right with my experience, I, um, I paid dearly for dealing with it poorly after a decade. Right. I just learned how to, um, ice those feelings out. And the real reality is there's no such thing as icing out just the negative feelings.

[00:08:26] Um, You do some of them, you do all of them. And so. That didn't work. Long-term I joke around that my emotions revolted really at that point. And so also known as burnout. And so now for me, it's, it's about when I think about bringing value to the market. When I think about the big challenges ahead of us as a profession, um, and how to go about, you know, figuring out how to work together and think differently and take just action.

[00:08:57] But the right action, I. There's, this is a journey, right? This is a journey. We are all on personal journeys. We are all on with the industry is on a journey and we're, we're actively kind of pivoting, which is very exciting. However, if we're waiting for some kind of outcome, um, to. Feel happy or like that, that, that that's, I don't want to say will never come, but like the big changes that we have to make as a profession, this we're talking like for the rest of my lifetime, right.

[00:09:31] Just to kind of catch up in many ways. And so what we have to do, especially those that are still carrying the bag is to teach one another. How to, um, Find joy along the way, uh, which is a function of focusing on incremental progress, right. Being a little bit better than our version of ourselves yesterday and, you know, stillness and staying present and all that fun stuff.

[00:09:54] So that's what, that's what it's about. And that's what I'm about. So how does a seller do that? All sellers are special snowflakes, just like all humans. Um, that's, that's, that's, that's the list I'll skip past that. Self-doubt so is that so important? Because there's so many, I don't even want to call them sales leaders, managers, whatever we want to, but they think that I thought I was the only one that was like, raise it, like bite your tongue at the word leader.

[00:10:21] There's there's a big difference between a sales leader and a manager, but. That's a whole nother conversation. Um, wait,

[00:10:31] I'm sorry. Continue. But each individual is different, right? So not everybody wants the same path, not every what works for one individual Maine may or may not work for another. So the biggest problem that I think, and I think you agree with me in it here is that. Stop trying to have this one size fits all sort of way of.

[00:10:58] Managing people. Yeah. So I think there's two parts to this. Um, and I'm going to push the, the management piece, which is a part, one of those two things. But second, the first is that when it comes to finding joy, when it comes to, um, you know, starting to work on our default brains, right. Which are, uh, Uh, part of the human condition is a nicer way to say it, but it's, it's on us, right?

[00:11:25] There is no one that is going to be, be able to do the work for me or for you Colin. Right on working too. Um, like it's such a fine line. So I like cognitive behavior therapy. Right. So when you think about sports psychology, um, stoicism is another big one for me was a big one for me. But like being able to really hone in on why I'm feeling a certain way or anxious, whatever in the present moment.

[00:11:56] Like my manager cannot do that for me, my, or whether they're a leader or not. More and anyway, but that's supposed to be like an empowering thing, right? So we have 100% of control over ourselves and the improvement and the investment particular, right? So this requires work and deep practice, but the, the investment of time there, um, pays off dividends.

[00:12:21] However, on the management side, this is when we get into like skill development. On on managers, which right. It's it's yeah, I, this is something that I wrote up pretty extensively in the mental health article featured on my LinkedIn profile. So anyone that's interested in, uh, like a very deep scientific and well proven, um, argument as far as how to like, what's the, why are, why do none of us have psychological safety on our sales floors?

[00:12:50] Uh, And so that makes our job as individuals harder. Right. But also 10 times more important to do it. Deeply and with intention without skipping steps, not in any rush. However, um, I like, I don't see a world where we survive that much longer without like, you know, really kind of getting this word out and teaching people how to do this.

[00:13:17] Cause I'm not waiting on, you know, the entire industry to change. I don't know about Yukon. Yeah, no, I, um, I'm not waiting on anybody to do anything. Um, this is why we're friends. One of the reasons why we get along so well. Um, now, you know, it's part, it's partly just like creating a safe enough space in the sales floor in that to, to be able to be vulnerable, to not have all the answers, to have some autonomy, to some creativity, you know, like these are all things that can help, you know, The job be a little bit more fun, or like you has you like to say bring more joy to B2B tech sales and the joy is in incremental development.

[00:14:02] And so this is where coaching, I think is so important and specifically like the right kind of coaching. And while I'm delighted to see an uptick in conversations about coaching, as it relates to, um, I don't wanna say management, but like most, most coaches and most conversations and or articles, they're still talking about performance coaching, which is about like coaching someone through a job, right.

[00:14:29] To get a job done for a certain outcome, which I get, however, this is a different and secondary right. And inferior thing then. Development coaching. And this is what happens when, like, somebody like me who is like, you know, hyper-focused on skill development really at all times, which is. Part of the reason why we're doing the podcast.

[00:14:52] Um, but development coaching is a whole different thing. This is when we are talking about and coaching someone towards growth as a human being, as an individual, as a professional that generates revenue and the irony of not focusing on development coaching is that it. It's a barrier to trust right there, because people can feel right when you just want, they want you're, you're being sucked for something.

[00:15:18] Um, but more importantly, With development coaching. It's not a zero sum game. Right? You develop the person is a human being, those skills and their capacity to, um, interpret and, and tolerate discomfort. And then, you know, like get stronger while acting through it, which let's be serious. That's what this job is all about.

[00:15:41] Right. Discomfort and continuous growth when you're developing human beings on the team like that, like it's just. They're going to perform better. You're going to get the, you're going to get the performance that you're looking for. So stop trying to teach them how to close better or how to better target people on LinkedIn or craft the perfect cold email.

[00:16:04] Like those things are great. They're necessary, but they're not the biggest priority. Yeah. And let, like, let them figure it out. I think there's a, like the lack of autonomy and creativity afforded, um, During the Legion process specifically with SDRs in particular, like it's just the idea that we, as a tech sales profession, which is really the filter bubble or the echo chamber coming from Silicon Valley, um, we like.

[00:16:35] We're telling these young humans or new humans into the profession, like we're telling them what, not only what they need to do, but how they should do it down to the day and task. And it's like, you know, con you said about like all the things that, that we could do differently as leaders or managers on sales floors, but the reality is like you gotta be working pretty flipping.

[00:16:57] Are we allowed to curse or is this a safe space? Uh, it's it's, it's safe. Uh, The audio is going in for those that are listening and not watching, uh, my son Jackson training me at the office today. So usually it's a free reign type of conversation, but call them, who's looking out for your listeners too, right?

[00:17:17] Cause there's, everybody's got some deep feelings about cursing. Yeah. So I'm from I'm from the Northeast. But like if you're at, you've gotta be trying really fucking hard to not read any of this. Studies any of the research, any of the like massive successes in, in business, right. And capitalism that explicitly say where, um, productivity and performance come from and autonomy, happiness, like we just spoke about and, you know, being able to apply art and creativity into the, your work, like.

[00:17:53] Those are massive parts of it. And so the whole, like trying hard thing is literally what the problem is. And, and actually something I'm going to pose and finish this thought with it's, it's very difficult to implement any kind of, you know, impactful program that delivers results by the way, by way of like change, uh, particularly or organizational change without first really investigating and understanding, um, what.

[00:18:20] The problem is, and I think that that is something that we are missing big time. And so it's kind of part of the reason why I'm so excited about the podcast that launches on Monday. Yeah. So before we shifted that a little bit, which we're going to dig into, um, The main thing that I hear you're saying here, Amy, is that it's really investing more in your people and helping them develop more personal so that they can perform better professionally.

[00:18:57] Yeah. But it's also like, You you're investing in, in people because it's the right thing to do, right? This is how, and we're, I think there's a, a course correction, right? That needs to happen. As in like I'm reading a book, it's actually pretty phenomenal. Colony is called assholes a theory, and there's a whole chapter on like asshole management and then like asshole capitalism.

[00:19:24] And it talks about like the. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to leave that over there, but anyway, I'm chuckling, remembering how you would love this book. All right. My own personal experience, you know, sales w you know, I was decent at sales, but where things, where I started to really see some success and things just became.

[00:19:46] Like sales became more fun or felt more like serving. And wasn't so challenging. And it was, was when I really D you know, invested more in myself personally, when I invested more in myself personally. There was more success professionally. That was just a result. That was a by-product of investing myself personally.

[00:20:06] So like, can I give more focus? Yeah. Yeah. So we use it to invest in yourself personally. Like, you know, there's two ways to interpret that it's like either I was. Forced to do that because I didn't have the best training program in the country at the time when you started, which is or onboarding. Right. So this is both training sales skills.

[00:20:28] I'm not talking sale. Okay. Talking about like, you know, my own personal mental health maybe. Right? So like  journaling, eating properly, sleeping properly. Um, You know, exercising consistently, um, spending more time with my family. When I started focusing more on those things, then I would just perform a much better professionally.

[00:20:57] And I didn't know any of this, but what's the result. Well, people are focusing on the wrong things. They're trying to sharpen their closing skills. They're trying to become better prospect or they're trying to master cold calling. I'm not saying that those things aren't important, but. A lot of those things, if you, you know, a lot of these things where the proper mindset or investing yourself personally, those that you will, you will become better at those things because you're going to be the best version of yourself when you're doing those activities.

[00:21:25] Well, I live in taking a separate yeah. When you're, when we get our brains, our minds, mind, body, soul. Right. Cause they're all connected. Um, In a place where we feel safe. We, where we feel strong, right? Depending on where a human starts out on the journey. That we bring that mind set and I don't need to save a mindset like you're you're as your body grows stronger.

[00:21:51] And with each decision that you make to continue to invest in yourself, because it's not a one and done decision, this is you, you nailed it on the like consistently and, and the minute you stop doing any or all of those things, you know, you do know. And actually it's, well, I want to come back to that actually.

[00:22:10] But what I was going to say is that. That person, right? Me, you, when you went through that, when we bring that person onto the job, it changes the way that we interpret the events that are occurring around us, which is I think a part of journaling and cognitive behavior therapy and stoicism. Right. So in which I'm a practicing stoke.

[00:22:34] Um, but anyway, uh, so it's that. And, but once we have that mindset that, that Mon buddy, so that stronger person that is now looking on the job, then we can start to make the right decisions on the job, which includes deep practice, which includes, um, You know, being a little bit more curious about the prospects, being less afraid of, you know, the one-on-one meeting with the manager, you know, like we're able to, we're stronger and we're able to think about and practice and seek out, um, a broader set of, I don't want to say advice cause it's like supports the advice monster, but, um, Yeah, there's a, there's a domino effect to kind of getting ourselves in that space, which is a journey, right.

[00:23:25] This does not happen overnight. And it certainly requires work, especially with like, for me, the journaling and, you know, being able to find gratitude like that one too. You'd be shocked how long it took me my poor, um, Dr. D she, we, we worked for at least a solid month on, on like gratitude, but anyway, you get there and then you work on the next thing.

[00:23:45] Um, and I, I agree with every word that you said that it is a worthwhile effort and it impacts every aspect of our life. It's, it's the professional. It is the family. It is the, um, physical, you know, all of it across the board. And I I'll even add a caveat. It never stops. Right. We are.

[00:24:09] We are going to have default brains really until the day that we die. And so there's never a point where, you know, the work is done really. But I think for me personally, at least for my experience, it's been amazing to, as I continue to work. Right. And cause some people get to a point where they're like, all right, this is good.

[00:24:31] But as you, if you keep going, when you keep going.

[00:24:37] It's like they say the, your cup, you have to keep your cup full, right. Or else you can't help or give any, uh, anyone else you, you physically, you just manifest a larger cup to give more from. And I mean, Yeah. So that's what the past year has been like for me. And so, so tell, so, tell, tell folks that are listening, watching his live or listening to the podcast.

[00:25:03] Tell them about revenue, real the podcast that's coming out. This drop-in on Monday, April 26th. Um, Tell him about that. I only put the tape I've been petrified. Like I see it coming and it's like this big, scary thing. And like, now it's like, it's the end zone. I okay. But anyway, 26. Okay. So, and you have a text number set up that they can text and, you know, get more information or tell them about the hotline.

[00:25:33] Uh, just. Give it a, give it to us all. Yeah. So revenue real and revenue rule. The podcast is the manifestation of me and my brand. Um, but it's, uh, the show is about, it's a series of conversations about uncomfortable conversations and. It is going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be one biggest experiment.

[00:25:58] And I, I love the idea of like, having to communicate exactly what the show's about because really like listeners, I don't, they I'm going to be experimenting with a bunch of things and we're going to be iterating and figuring out what works. But one of the big fun pieces, um, is we're going to do one hotline because I can't be the only one out there that like, you know, listens to things and watches things and like wants to weigh in or ask a question.

[00:26:21] So I, as you see on the screen six. Four six four seven zero zero two four eight. For anyone that's interested in either getting more information about the show or about the hotline and coming on and, you know, posing some questions or just kind of talking about a pending uncomfortable conversation that maybe we've been avoiding, or that needs to happen as a little bit scary at this moment.

[00:26:45] Like this is the place to talk about it. And so, you know, just anything goes really, um, I think buyers, right? So buyers can, is uncomfortable conversations with bosses, peers, hiring managers, friends, and family. Right? So all the mental stuff that we talked about with, with this profession, it's not just the sales people that are talking about this.

[00:27:09] Yeah. And somebody has got to flipping say it, and frankly, this idea of like solving for the wrong problems or. Yeah, we're we have not made a great deal of progress. Um, when I think about equality, uh, in technology sales and it's pretty abysmal, frankly. And so I have some questions about that. However, um, when it comes to uncomfortable conversations, For starters one, I don't have shit figured out.

[00:27:39] Right? Nobody does. And more importantly, the complexity that is right now, right. And all things is require us to have conversations, uncomfortable conversations, especially with different types of people that have different perspectives and have had different experiences. And so we're all at a practice.

[00:28:00] Myself included. And so this is also going to be a place for, for me, really to, um, hone in on, you know, my abilities and skills when it comes to uncomfortable conversations and be vulnerable about it. As well as, you know, help everybody else. And what I mean by that is that, you know, as someone that is, you know, obsessed about core competencies and what are the next, what's the next thing.

[00:28:26] Um, being able to have conversations and show up in conversations and, you know, silence your advice monster and let go of your rightness and, you know, the experiences that you had, that, that did bring you success, you know, 10 years ago. Um, you know, those are hard things to let go of, but. Anyway, when we do that, it will, it impacts all areas of our, our lives, our professional career specifically.

[00:28:56] So it will help in conversations with buyers, it will help in conversations. Um, internally it will help, you know, for any kind of civic activism that's going on. Um, or maybe I'm projecting on to everybody else, but you know, there's a lot of things that, um, Yeah, we're uncomfortable conversations, help. And the only way to both move through the discomfort of, you know, And like looking at a new scale, also known as conscious incompetence phase is to practice and to practice in a short period of time.

[00:29:32] So repetition and small pieces. And so that's what we're going to do, but we're going to absolutely have a. Oh, fucking great time doing it. And everyone will have fun. Dammit. So, Oh yeah. Con also I'm going to be bringing in one of my, uh, change agent friends who, or like people that I love to have like strong debates with and that have helped to shape and mold.

[00:29:57] Even areas where, where I needed to learn. And so anyway, it's just going to be a series of fun people, including mentee relationships, um, individuals that, you know, have big names. And I, I don't know, I'm thinking we're going to commit Collin to doing the hotline segment with each episode. Hmm. So there it is.

[00:30:20] Can I use now you got to do it. I know now it's happening. Um, I'm super excited for, for revenue, real launching and all the sales hustlers out there should be excited to check it out. It'll be on all of the platforms, Amy, any final thoughts before we close this out? Thank you for like giving us, um, uh, listen, right.

[00:30:43] To just checking us out, which starts with sending us that texts or sending us when I say us or way like, it's really, it's just me and I, and Colin, who's obviously amazing and, and helping. However, I really appreciate the effort to try something different and to venture outside of whatever they say, the five podcasts that we listened to.

[00:31:03] And if anybody has any thoughts or ideas, um, to bring. More value. As you know, as far as uncomfortable conversations goes, I'm all ears, all ears. All right, Amy. Thanks so much for coming on today. Thanks for the people to join us live. If you're listening to the podcast, uh, replay here, uh, if you enjoyed today's episode register review, share it with your friends and as always, we're listening for your feedback.

[00:31:26] Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional? Looking to take your sales career to the next level. If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales,, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell.

[00:31:50] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.