Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
April 23, 2021

Episode #88 S1-EP88 Selling Through Authenticity, Vulnerability, and Positivity with Casey Jacox

Casey Jacox joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Let’s hear from Casey as he talks about his sales journey on how he managed to get his dream job as a sales legend who doubles as a teacher and a coach in his chosen playing field.

Casey Jacox is a B2B sales professional who has been the National #1 Producer for 10 consecutive years. Moving into executive roles one after another, he later on transitioned out of the corporate world to write his book - Win the Relationship, Not the Deal, and started his own podcast for fathers called “The Quarterback Dadcast.”  

As a self-proclaimed curious optimist, Casey is a business leader who strives to lead by example through authenticity, vulnerability, and positivity. As a person who practices his beliefs, adversity has always made him stronger over the course of his career with the way he continues to seek the path towards mastery.  

Being a professional who coaches sales teams and leaders to improve productivity and sales culture, he’s able to effectively harness over 20+ years of B2B experience to meet new people and seek ways to build relationships – true relationships that are long-lasting.

Casey’s book - Win the Relationship, Not the Deal, is available in all major bookstores and catch the latest episode of his podcast at  

Find out more and reach out to Casey Jacox through the following links:

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Episode 88 - Casey Jacox

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is happening, uh, sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I've got a fantastic guest today. Casey J Cox, and he is a sales leadership coach, podcaster author. And we've got some fun topics that we're going to dive into. Casey. Welcome to the, and it's an honor to join you and shout out to Hannah Pryor for making this happen.

[00:00:53] Yeah. Yeah. That was a ton of fun having her on. Um, and so yeah, any friend of hers is a friend of mine. Yeah. She's she's funny. Her husband eons they're they're actually hilarious. Great, great couple that shout out to them. They also just celebrate 15 years, their wedding anniversary too. Oh, nice. Yeah. Very cool.

[00:01:11] So yeah. Thanks Hannah. For making this happen. Casey before we jump in, give us the short cliff notes version. Like what's your sales story? How'd you get into sales? Why all that good stuff. I mean, I just like most people got in sales. I dream, I had posters on wall of sales, legends, you know, right next to Dan Marino.

[00:01:27] And I've always thought I'm not joking. I mean, I, I fell into it. Um, I thought I wanted to be a high school teacher and coach, and then I realized that there was so many things I wanted to experience in life that you couldn't unfortunately do. Via the, the compensation that unfortunately teachers deserve way more, but they don't our society that says they shouldn't make them, which I totally disagree.

[00:01:48] And I got out of my first job was a barcoding labels, barcoding, uh, label, and, um, you know, warehouse management system. I called them stickers. They weren't labels and made like six gazillion phone calls a day. Yeah, uh, was growing my territory, but never made a diamond commission that something was like not adding up.

[00:02:08] And I remember I finally went to my, my bleeder at the time and I said, he asked me what my goals were for the next year. And he said, well, I want to double my salary. I want to be in front of the customer. He goes, wow, those are way too aggressive goals, Casey, for someone your age. And right then I knew it was time to get out or find something different.

[00:02:24] And my, my buddy Kelly Hanson at the time, uh, told me about this company called hall Kenyon, which was purchased in June of 2004 by K force. Um, and I spent 20 years there. In multiple roles and sold staff technology, staffing. And, um, and I got into more consulting, selling solution based projects, um, and had an absolute blast and so much what I played in sales.

[00:02:45] I learned from coaches, athletes, my parents through sports. Um, that's, that's probably me in a 25 year nutshell, right there. Hmm. Wow. So good thing you got out of the sticker game, huh? Still calm stickers. I mean, how do you not call sticker sticker? So, ah, awesome. All right. So is there anything you learned selling stickers sticks with you today?

[00:03:10] Uh, I learned about, uh, uh, barcode technology. Um, I learned that the phone is your friend. And then today's automated world where it's all about social and I'm, I, I'm still holding out hope that in the end, people can automate as much as they want. It's still, never is gonna replace that human interaction.

[00:03:28] And when the customer says, or prospect says, man, great question. When I hear that it's I don't want to ring the bell because that's better than to me winning a deal because I made a client think. Mm, I love that. And, and, you know, the phone becomes more powerful as less people straight use the phone.

[00:03:45] Right? There's so many people trying to book meetings through LinkedIn and email and AI and automation or whatever. The newest thing that comes out, which these are all great things, but the people that rely on them heavily, they're not using the phone as much and just makes it easier for people like maybe me and you that enjoy using the phone to actually get ahold of somebody.

[00:04:05] Well, how often have you heard people say, man, can we just do a phone call instead of a zoom or a teams? And it's refreshing. It's like, you can actually walk around the house. You don't have to worry about, you know, wearing a shirt with like, you know, shorts down below it's you're you can just it's like old school.

[00:04:20] So it's, um, Yeah, I love the phone because I can control tone. I can control a voice inflection, things that most sellers don't talk about. They think it's this magical potion that you just show up it's going to happen. And unfortunately you have to put in the work, which is not easy. It's not, no, it's a lot of work to master the phone.

[00:04:39] Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and not only master it, but not be surprised when you're in the grind of pounding out phone calls and then you get the surprise when someone picks up and you weren't ready for it. Yeah. Oh, shoot. A bad connection. You hang up like yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that happens. I, uh, and I still cold call today, man.

[00:04:56] I do about. Four or five hours a week, just go for you, just for fun. Sharpen. The saw. Yeah. And I listened to the call recordings and all that good stuff. And I liked that you brought up tone, like tone is so important. You know, how you say things and how you make people feel is way more important than even what you say.

[00:05:16] And then being able to read tone as well and adjust based on, you know, what you're hearing, you know, and the tone that they're using. Well, a lot of the speaking and that I actually, and I fell into this speaking coaching. I did not leave to go do this. This is going to happen, but you just quoted, I don't know if you knew about that.

[00:05:33] You essentially paraphrased a quote. What I love by my Angelo, one of my favorite. Uh, people in life, she says, it's not what you said or why you said about how you made someone feel when you leave the room. And that gift I always teach sellers is if you ask, if you're in a meeting and you ask really, really good questions, or you ask really good questions internally, you're going to make, they're going to remember you from the rest.

[00:05:54] They're not gonna remember it, man. That calm guy has PowerPoint was so cool that color and the font, the size man. It was awesome. He right. They're gonna remember, like if I talk less and the client talks more. When, um, and I that's, I just don't think people are, are getting taught that enough, which is why I wrote my book when the relationship, not the deal and, you know, worked.

[00:06:14] I'm sure you can. I don't know if you have, you can relate to this, but sellers are taught to build relationships. People are taught to build relationships when they leave college, but no one's teaching them how, I mean, some colleges, like we talked before, recording that are doing it, but I think a lot of people who are just leaving school in this automated world need common sense about the power of.

[00:06:33] Um, following through the power of setting expectations, the power of documentation, the power of checking your ego and asking for help. The power of saying, I don't know, help me out like that stuff to me is what builds authentic, vulnerable, humble relationships. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I'm glad that you brought this up because it was one of the things we said we're going to talk about.

[00:06:55] Right. So humility and vulnerability in sales, which I think a lot of people are. Not even aware that like, those are things that are important to in building these relationships in sales. And I think there's, it's so common that you see people talking about yet adding value, adding value, and they think like providing a ebook is adding value.

[00:07:17] No. And, and, and just to keep the theme alive, let's drop a first step from the word fucking value drives me nuts more than anything, because no one knows what it means and, uh, it's way overused. Uh, it's it's one of these words where you dislike, keep winging it. And so maybe they saw it on a sticker. Yeah, and I bet maybe I sold that sticker, but, uh, so I was like, she's so mad.

[00:07:41] One time on a flight, like just like, like, nah, mad. I'm saying that sarcastically, but like mad. I was like, God, this fricking word value is so annoying. Like I'm gonna make it, I'm going to make an acronym. And then when I talked to, when I was in doing internal trainings or, and now externally, I'd say, okay, if I want to be vulnerable to call them today, I need to be, um, let me valuable.

[00:07:58] I need to be vulnerable, authentic. Level-headed understanding and empathetic. When I do those five things, well that's value. Right? But like you can't, if I that's, what's kinda like when someone says, how can I earn your business? How can I be more valued for your business? Well, you should have been calling me fricking.

[00:08:14] Six months ago, dude, don't ask me. Right, exactly. Show me shit. I already know, show me that, you know, show me through your actions and you know, that you can bring value. Don't ask me. Right. You know, cause now you're just wasting my time. Yup. Um, yeah, no. And, and so, and sometimes it's, it's honestly just like.

[00:08:35] Actually giving a fuck, like just paying attention. And like, I know you brought it up earlier is like asking good questions and getting your prospect to the point where like, wow, that's a good question. Making them think about something they wouldn't have thought about otherwise or asking a question that nobody else is asking or.

[00:08:51] Even challenging them a little bit. And you know, them thinking that they know how something should be or the way it should go and actually pushing back on that and saying, you know, have you actually considered this or no, you know, that's actually, you know, maybe you should think about it this way. Um, that's adding value.

[00:09:07] Oh, a hundred percent. One of the, one of the best things I got taught in my career was through a, um, a guy by the name of John Kaplan. So basic form of ways to ask questions, which is called Ted based. Tell me, explain, describe, uh, you ask to try it on your kids. Do you wanna, you wanna talk about changing the conversation, which is what sellers need to do to differentiate themselves?

[00:09:30] I use Ted based questions on my kids all the time and they have to answer me. They have to engage with me that I can't just say, Hey bud. How's school. What'd you do now? It's like, Hey, tell me what you love most about English versus science. Describe, describe it for me, or tell me about a time you laughed at school or did you had you had fun basketball practice?

[00:09:47] Tell me more about it. Like, pretend I was there, but I wasn't, I want to pretend I want to close my eyes and explain what, what was going on, like the ups and downs. And when you show interest in people, they want to talk about themselves, right? Um, I know. And you, you said waste their time. You also made me think of how, how often do do sellers when they just then they follow up, uh, th they stay, their followup skills are ham called the check-in call.

[00:10:14] I'm calling to just touch base, which when I hear that, I'm like, you need to change your phrase. I'm calling to fucking waste your time. Like follow up with a split, a followup, the question, follow up with something you learned fall up with something that they might not know about. Th th that generates a unique conversation or even challenged them or push back a little bit.

[00:10:32] Hey, you, Mr. Prospect, you said this was important because of these reasons. Is this still a priority or not? Yeah, my time don't waste my time. Yeah. I got to get shit done. Like your sign says. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's, let's, let's talk about the book a little bit when the relationship. Not the deal. Um, I'm guessing it's got something to do with playing, playing the long game and focusing more on, on people over the profit or commission breath.

[00:11:08] A hundred percent. Yeah. This book came to me. My, like I got hit. I feel like I got hit by lightning in Dallas about nine years ago. And I was helping train and grow a team in Dallas for one of our largest larger customers at the time. And the team that was, I was helping kind of groom was younger, not as experienced.

[00:11:24] And then at the time I was our top rep at that. And, uh, they, they were, I could see, they were so eager to please like the younger brother trying to make big brother happy. And they were so competitive and so about. Let me like, just intense about everything that even when we did lose. They would get like they would, so they would get so frustrated.

[00:11:45] And I said, um, I want you to expect to win every deal, but we're not gonna win every deal and be okay with that. And then when we lose a deal, how can you still win a customer? And I got a blank stare. And I said, let's think about it. Think about if we lose, you know, I'm, I'm selling cups and con uh, they, you know, Hannah picks a coffee cup company versus mine.

[00:12:05] And, but if I follow up with Hannah and say, Hey, Hannah, I'm bummed that we didn't get picked, but I'm following up to make sure that you got everything that you were supposed to get from Collins cups. I want to make sure that you get a good experience and I'm here in case things don't always go well, but I want to say thank you again for the opportunity to compete.

[00:12:19] And, um, I appreciate it. Just something that shows I care. The number of times I did that, I picked up numerous deals. And then right there, I said, you got to win the relationship. You guys it's more about winning people than winning deals. And right when I heard that, I was like, okay, boom, that's it. Uh, and then it was in my mind for like, like eight or nine years.

[00:12:36] I didn't want to write when I was still at K force. Cause I didn't want to be distracted and use that as an excuse. And I left in March of 2019 and it took about two or three months to get my head. Right. And then from like April through August from nine to 11, I wrote every single day. Some days, I thought it was fricking, uh, You know, Beverly Cleary, hashtag old author and then Sundays, and then it was shit.

[00:13:01] And then there's days I thought it was shit. It was actually really good. Um, but the best part of the whole process column was that the editor, the best editor I ever hired, I paid zero and I did hire an editor and she was great, but the best editor I did not have to pay for. You know who that was yourself, my wife, your wife.

[00:13:22] I mean, she was so fricking good and like every, like she's like she, cause she knew me. She knew my voice and how we started this conversation around tone. I mean, tone is so important as we all know, as it relates to messaging, which I know Hannah is very passionate about as a, as am I. And um, when. Uh, I am not a trained author and people have asked me who trained you to be a conversationalist writer.

[00:13:46] I'm like, I have no idea you're talking about. And, but as you think about it, think about all the business. I have emails you send to a client, you are focused on tone, how they can read it, or they are, they imagining we're shooting the shit like we are right now. Are they, are they thinking that you're some douchey sales person with a trench coat trying to peddle watches at me?

[00:14:03] And that's a really important piece. Let's not skip over that. So why is it important for your messaging to feel like, you know, what you just described over some douchey sales trenchcoat sale used cars salesman or whatever. Stereotype. You want to imagine? I think, I think it's important because I think so many prospects get shit, tons of email, so many prospects or zoom fatigue, or so many prospects right now are stressed out as all can be with COVID there.

[00:14:31] I mean, we're working from home like w when they can get something of a fresher breath there that says, like, the major makes them laugh. I mean, I'm not afraid to use smiley faces in email with emojis. Dude. Yeah. I mean, I like to tell people, like, use your messaging almost. I mean with maybe some few restrictions, but like you're texting a buddy a hundred percent, like texting a friend, let your personality come out.

[00:14:57] Yeah. That's a, that's a great chance to do it. Um, No, I'm glad you asked that. But back to the, kind of the, the, the book, why there's, it's not sexy, but the six pillars are the power of the golden rule starting each day with positivity. So as a top seller, how often am I taking time to recognize the front desk person, a support team?

[00:15:18] How often am I treating them the way I want to be treated? You know, in kindergarten, that was all we were taught. But as we get into this adult world, we, all of a sudden can be assholes to each other and it's accepted. It's like, I'm like, fuck that. Um, chapter two is all about expectation management and follow-up, if I'm going to be there three o'clock show up at two 52 up to 55, be prepared with good questions that are going to make your client.

[00:15:39] Think chapter three is about the difference between listening and hearing. Both listening is a skill you can get better at. Um, chapter four is about documentation. I'm going to use three letters that mostly of S I'm guessing our sales audience might freak out. Yes, guys, I want you to use a CRM. I want you to document not because your manager told you to, because it's going to make you look smarter.

[00:16:01] Document is like the best thing that I was a CRM. Psycho. I love documentation. Note freak. Yeah. I, it makes me look like I went to Harvard, um, chapter five's about ditching your ego. I think letting your authentic self shine and chapter six is about patience and patience and persistence and perseverance.

[00:16:20] So I, and I have stories. I have exercises in there. Um, I'm just, I'm passionate about not having this, um, uh, And passionate about trying to influence people that you don't need to be a complete dipshit. You don't need to go shower. When you say you're you, someone says you in sales or go brush your teeth.

[00:16:38] Cause they think you're an icky person, like top sellers. When you have a good experience with the seller, that's really, really good. You go tell someone about it. Like even like the car lot, like, dude, this guy was great or she was awesome. She didn't try to sell me shit. She actually tried to tell me to go down the lot to someone else.

[00:16:53] Like she believed in her product that much, that she didn't want. She was like, nah, we don't got it. You got to go to this person there, but they're better. Yeah. Yeah. Or didn't just upsell on features. Maybe even, maybe even down sell you on what you actually right-sized you. Right, right. You know? Um, yeah, no, I love this concept when the relationship, not the deal.

[00:17:13] So, uh, I think I'm going to have to, is it on audible? No, but you're the many of person who keeps asking me that, which is like, how many signs do I got to get punched in the face? Like, dude, spend the money and get an audible. Uh, I'm an, I'm an audio book guy. I'm not, I'm not scared to admit it. So if it was on audible, I check it out.

[00:17:31] Now you have to get on audible. So challenge accepted. I'm writing it down, brother. All right, here we go. Um, but because what I'd like to teach my team and the people that I work with is, is, is something very similar. And I tell them that in, I kind of just tell him in really simple terms is like, the goal is not necessarily to get the yes.

[00:17:49] Or to get the deal or to get the commission. The deal is to deliver a good experience regardless of the outcome. So the goal is to give them a good experience, regardless of outcome, meaning regardless if they become a customer, if they don't become a customer or they come become a customer and leave at some point, for whatever reason, the goal is to make sure that you give them the best possible experience above that.

[00:18:11] And it's, that was very simply eloquent, eloquently put yet so hard to achieve. Cause it is hard. Yeah. Especially when people have, you know, pressure and goals and activity, quotas and bills and all these things that contribute to stressing them out to not performing. Um, but you know, when you focus. When you have, when you focus, put your focus different in a different way, and in not just on the, getting the, yes, getting the sale, the salient actually becomes a lot easier when you focus on the people and the relationships, and really, truly adding value, not sending them a fricking lead magnet, downloadable guide that they don't give a shit about.

[00:18:53] Right. Download my piece of shit. It's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm adding value because. I sent you a blog post that I don't even know you care about. You know, I wrote it and I can't remember what I wrote, but check it out anyways, or I'm sending it to you and I didn't even read it, but somebody over here in the cubicle next to me, he said it's valuable.

[00:19:14] And I trust him. He's only been here for three hours, but he seems like a great guy. Yeah. Um, selling actually becomes fun. It becomes, it changes. And I wasn't always that way, man. I was, I was taught like the worst sales habits of all, everything that people hate about salespeople. I was. Yeah, because that's what I was taught.

[00:19:36] And then once I went on this sort of journey of like finding my own authentic self and like investing in my own personal development to become, you know, better professionally, like a lot of people think like I need to be a better, closer. I need the perfect script. I need all of these things. And it's actually not that if you invest more in yourself personally, you'll just totally kick ass.

[00:19:57] Professionally could not agree with you. More science says that, um, I'm not going to quote the actual science, but I've done research on. So on average, we as humans have 10,000 thoughts a day of those 10,000 thoughts, 80% are negative. So all this negative self-talk. And so it's as sellers. Think about that as, Oh, I got this big meeting with Colin and he, he's probably gonna be pissed at me, or if he's having a bad day or should I call it con Oh, he might not pick up.

[00:20:21] I mean, we just beat the shit out of ourselves all day long and that's why you have to work on yourself. I'm a big believer of exercise meditation. Diet. Um, that's what it goes back to this thing we talked about too, in the beginning about vulnerability and humility. We all need help. Every single one of us I've yet to meet the perfect person.

[00:20:40] I don't give a shit how successful you are. I was, I guess, like I said, I hate to be uncle Rica, mom here, but I was our top rep at K first, 10 years straight. They probably forgot who I am now. We're all replaceable that company's doing great. They're probably doing better without me. Maybe the army there. I don't know, but.

[00:20:55] NFL stands for, not for long people heard that joke before, like quarterbacks are going to be at the top of their game. They go away along, comes a Russell Wilson along comes a Patrick Mahoney or along comes, you know, someone will replace Tom Brady and he'll always be talked about, but in the end we're all replaceable.

[00:21:11] And so I just like staying grounded and being the best version of myself today. And I'm also very passionate Collin about the number of 1440, which is the number of minutes we all have each day. And, uh, what I love most about that is what drives me nuts. Sometimes when people say, man, I love that read more.

[00:21:28] I don't have time. I love to workout. I just don't have time, but I love to be able to get more clients. I just, I don't have time. I'm too busy. I'm like bullshit. You're the, you're the problem. You don't need to have two should either. You will, or you won't. And when you can simplify your life and own your shit, like our, my boy, um, Albert Einstein said, um, a weak weakness of character, a weakness of characters, no weakness of attitude is weakness of character.

[00:21:53] Um, you have to be positive. You gotta believe you gotta see opportunities. Um, she, it's not that you don't have time. It's not it's that you're not making time or it's not important enough to you, so true. Yeah. Yeah, well, Casey, this has been awesome. I want you to just tell people about your podcast, which I'm super excited to check out myself and tell them where they can find the book and any other final thoughts or anything we're going to include in the show notes for them.

[00:22:22] Sure. Yeah. Well, thank you for asking. Um, I have a website it's uh, Casey, J So it's C a S E Y J a C O Um, people can find me, um, learn more about kind of what I'm up to right now from coaching to speaking to podcasting work. Um, my podcast is live on all major podcast players, uh, comes out every Thursday morning.

[00:22:41] Where I interview a dad, uh, it's called the quarterback dad cast. And the goal is to people think it's about football and it's not, it just be making fun of myself and live in the uncle Rico days of where I could throw the ball of the goddamn mountain. And, um, Joking aside though. I know I interviewed dads and we get dads to open up and be vulnerable.

[00:23:00] We hear how they, how they grew up. We are how the, hear, how their parents impacted them. Some grew up, I've interviewed many dads who did not grow up with a dad. And they're some of the amazing dads I've interviewed some, um, some few famous folks from like, You know, the play by play guys of the Seattle Mariners, which is like a lifelong dream to get a Michael Jervey, who's a fairly well-known performance psychologist.

[00:23:22] Um, and it's just, it's fun to talk to dads because I selfishly I get therapy every week from talking to a dad and the goal is to help make sure that we have have 18 summers or we all have 18 summers to impact our kids before they go. Um, so, and I'm on LinkedIn. LinkedIn's probably my most active, um, Social network.

[00:23:43] And can they find the book on your website or the books on the website also on Amazon? So if you just search my name, Casey Jaycox or just searched when the relationship, not the deal, I can send you a bit Bitly as well. If that helps. Yeah, no. Yeah, I'll just drop, we'll drop the link. Uh, for all the sales hustlers listening, we'll drop the link to the website and Casey's LinkedIn in the show notes.

[00:24:04] We'll drop it in there. And if you're listening to the podcast and you enjoy today's episode, subscribe, write us a review, share with your friends, and we're always listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional? Looking to take your sales career to the next level.

[00:24:23] If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales,, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host collum Mitchell. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.