Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
April 16, 2021

Episode #85 S1-EP85 A Sales Hustler’s Mindset with Gabrielle “GB” Blackwell

Gabrielle “GB” Blackwell joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Let’s hear from Gabrielle about the time she flew back to the US from France, aspiring to be a CEO and realizing that building a career in sales should be her first step. She then divulges on how she’s now rockin’ and hustlin’ it as an expert in the field.

Gabrielle “GB” Blackwell is the Sales Development Manager of Gong who serves in virtue of Empowerment, Advocacy, and Enlightenment with the way she cultivates expertise in Sales Leadership, Sales Training, Sales Management, Change Management, Sales Coaching, Personal Coaching, Sales Enablement, and Cold Calling. 

Being heavily involved in the tech space for most of the duration of her sales career, Gabrielle started as an Enterprise Sales Development Representative with Cloudwords, Inc. Even though it was her first job, she realized that she had the capacity to make it in the field when she made her mark as a member of the pioneering cast of Sales Development Reps within the company’s first satellite office. After working her way to the top and loving everything that she’s doing, she’s now recognized as a reputable sales mentor being a Career Coach at SDR Nation. 

Gabrielle hosts the show - #SDRHotline presented by Sales Hacker on LinkedIn and co-Hosts the show Women in Sales Club.

Find out more and reach out to Gabrielle Blackwell through the following links:

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Episode 85 - Gabrielle “GB” Blackwell

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is happening at sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I'm super excited. We got some fun topics for you. We'll keep it tactical as always. I'm going to be talking with GB. She's the sales development manager at gong and, uh, GB has worked her way into sales development leadership currently overseeing a team of SDRs at gong that IO she's also the host of the SDR hotline on LinkedIn live and the co-host of the women in sales.

[00:01:01] Club on clubhouse, GB. Welcome to the show. How are you doing? Hey, thanks for having me. I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing awesome. I know we're going to have a ton of fun. We were just planning out some pretty exciting topics here. So, uh, before we get to the good stuff, just give us the short version of your sales story.

[00:01:19] Ooh, my sales story. So I think it all started off with, uh, I was, uh, I was living in Paris, France for a couple of years. Uh, right after I graduated college. I. Like realized, wow, I'm never going to make a living here. So it came back to the States with like no monies, one suitcase and one dog. And I was, I gotta make something happen.

[00:01:39] So, uh, kind of thought through where I'd want to be in my career had figured out like a CEO is a good place to start or a good, a good aspiration to have. And so when I did my research, like some of the roles that really popped out to me as far as where CEOs typically start their, uh, their journey was in sales.

[00:01:56] So like, that's how I started. I was like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be. CEO of my own business. And I feel like that's one of the big things that you hear in sales is like, you're, you're the CEO of your territory or the CEO of your book of business. So yeah, that's what led me to sales. Interesting. Okay.

[00:02:13] Yeah. I mean, if you're going to be the founder of a company or a CEO, like I think sales is. The most important skill out of anything else? Um, I think there's a lot of people that think they can have, or build the best product, but if you can't sell that product, you're not going to go very far. Yeah. Or if you don't know what products are sellable, so yeah.

[00:02:35] So much. Yeah. There's amazing product. It's wonderful. I freaking love it. And you're like, Well, who wants to buy it? Not nobody or their mother. It's like, Oh, well that's cute. Maybe their mother. And then that's it. Maybe their mother. And that's it. And that's not saying a lot. Yeah. Family and friends were the toughest on your stuff.

[00:02:56] So, so where did you get your first, uh, sales role and what were you doing? Yeah. So my first sales role, I was a sales development representative at a company called cloud words. So, uh, it was all about global translation management. And, um, and so I, yeah, I started in that role in 2015 and did really well.

[00:03:17] I was like, Oh wow. I can actually be really good at something. And as much as I put into my job, I can get out of it in terms of the outcomes and. And my variable compensation. And I think I also was really, really curious about how can I operationalize my own success too. So that was kind of, I think the initial, initial interest in that led me to becoming a manager or a leader in sales anyways.

[00:03:41] Mm. Okay. And so now, now, now you're at gong, like it, just to, I'm curious, is there anything that you learned early on that just kind of really sticks with you? They kind of like molded you as, you know, uh, as a sales person, as a person. Yeah. Yeah. I, I believe there's, there's probably some really great stuff that I learned right.

[00:03:59] At the beginning of when I got into sales. I also think there's a lot of stuff that I learned outside of sales, just in life in general, that. Shaped my attitude when I was entering into sales. So I had started working in sales when I was, uh, I was about to turn. 25. Um, I'd also, I mean, I said I was, I was living in Paris.

[00:04:17] I was hustling there, but I was also married to this terrible, terrible human being. He's probably a fine person, terrible husband though. Um, it w like very, very mean very cynical, very narcissistic kind of person. And, and so he is the kind of person who I felt like tried to strip away or try to make me forget all the best pieces of myself.

[00:04:37] So when I came back to the U S I was very much like. I need to rebuild. I need to prove things to myself, right? Like I can't, I can't continue my life with this, with this thought or this mentality of like, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy enough. I'm not deserving. Like I need to put myself in a position where I can actually be successful because I believe that I am successful.

[00:04:58] So for me, I think the initial part was, and I kind of call this an F-you mindset. Like for me, I was like, I don't want. I don't want to leave any doubts on the table for anybody to say, Oh, Hey, like she's not good enough, or she's not trying hard enough, or she doesn't have the work ethic, I think. And so, you know, I give the example of the relationship that I had with my ex-husband, but that's also an energy.

[00:05:22] Like there was an, there was a very similar, energetic signature that was happening even prior to that. So when I was playing basketball or volleyball in high school and college, Always, I always felt as though I was very much overlooked. Right. And there was always some reason that somebody gave us the why wasn't deserving of a playing time.

[00:05:39] And it was always like, Oh, you're not working hard enough. I'm like, I just scored the most points. What are you talking about? I'm not working hard enough. So I think I've just had experiences in life that led me to the conclusion that, Hey, listen, I really have to like step up. And show out forever and always in order to get what I'm deserving of.

[00:05:58] So that to me was the mentality that I really came into sales with. And then when I, then, you know, there was a piece of, I have no money. Like I like living in my uncle's basement, um, which was not like the best situation or it was not the best arrangement. And I was like, I got, I have to make this work.

[00:06:17] Like, there is no such thing as this not working. So I went out and I saw it mentorship and I saw it like help and guidance. And I think it was this, again, this mindset of I'm going to be successful. I'm going to be the bus. I'm going to come in. Like nobody's going to have a single seat, like not a single doubt about me.

[00:06:36] And it drove me to go and find people who I think that really helped me be able to. Um, realize the aspirations that I had for myself, which was, I wanted to be the top rep on the team, like w like by far the top person on the team. So there was things that I learned from those mentors, right. That I think again, they were like, Hey, listen, here's the fun of sales and you told me I can cuss, so I'm going to go for it.

[00:06:59] But like one of, one of the big lessons that I learned, uh, from, um, so the guy, his name is Derek sexually. Like my mom's cousin's husband kind of thing. And he he's a business development executive, um, and a very large company that we all know. I don't want to name him by name. Cause he might get in trouble.

[00:07:15] But like I remember I went and I go and have I went and had lunch with him. This isn't the first month on the job. It has like, Hey Derek, I got into sales. I really want to do really well, like. You know, what do you like? What should I, what do I need to know? So there was little things that he would, he would share with me.

[00:07:32] Right? Every time we met up for lunch and this one lesson I shared with me, he goes, don't tell anybody I told you this, please. But here's, here's what you got to know. It's, it's a yes, until it's a no with the prospects, right? Like when we're, we're cold calling, we're asking for your business, we were coming out or calling out of the blue.

[00:07:50] He's like, it's a gas until it's a no, it even still it's a yes, until it's a fuck. No. And at least then, you know what you're working with. So I was like, Oh, so, you know, when I think about this in the grand scheme of like cold calling a prospecting, it's all right. I'm probably going to get a bunch of notes and I can find it.

[00:08:09] Yes, eventually, but there are going to be the folks that I come across and is an absolute hard stop. Get the fuck outta here. No. And at least then I know, okay, this is probably not a good account to go after, but that's now I know now we both know I'll leave you alone call and I'll see you later. So, um, Yeah, I love that because there's, there's, there's two types of nose, right?

[00:08:30] There's like a, no with a good reason or no, without a reason and a no, without a reason that's still a possible. Yes. And even you talked a lot about mindset, which I love, which is kind of the topic that we're really going to jam out on today. Could you call it mindset of a sales hustler? So we'll probably name the episode that, but, um, so no.

[00:08:50] Without a reason or not a fuck. No. Right. Is still, there's still some, there's still some possible opportunity there. Um, and then what I like to tell folks too, is like, even like that, that hard. No, that's a good outcome. Yeah. A lot of people take that as like, ah, and they take that energy or that negative negativity into the next call.

[00:09:16] And then you hear it in their tone and, and all of that. And then they just keep getting a bunch of, you know, hard nose. Right. So a hard, no, you got to shift your mindset there a hard, no, that's a good thing. Right because you're working a list, you're working a, a market you're working, whatever you, whatever your list is, whatever that looks like, refining that list, you know, chopping out those getting re you know, uh, weeding out those hard nose.

[00:09:41] Is, you know, refining the list. So you can find more of the, the yeses or more of the, maybe not, no, maybe eventually a yes. Yeah. I mean, I would rather know from the get-go that it's never going to be a fit. Yeah. Because I was like, I'm a follow up with you. I will call you. I will nurture you. Like I will bust my ass to make sure that.

[00:10:07] We're just like, we're able to identify a, need a problem, a pain and provide value. Assuming that we actually can. So I'm like, I'm hell bent on that. So if you let me know, like it's never going to be a yes, absolutely not. And if you reach out to me one more time, I will call your boss. The authorities I'll submit you to the canned spam police, whatever else it is.

[00:10:31] And I was like, word respect. Appreciate it. Oh, leave me alone. For a few months, but I'll check back just to make sure it's instill enough. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the thing is, I think so many people can get nos and give up so easily without, without that sort of mindset of prospecting. Um, you know, cause Oh, not interested.

[00:10:54] That that's not a hard, no, not interested is not a hard, no, that's like you probably caught them at a bad time. They're just not really up for taking your call right now. You didn't do a good job in your messaging or what you said. Um, that's not a hard, no call those people back, please. Yes, it's all.

[00:11:15] That's big time. I, one of the things I'm kind of making it maybe a little bit more tactical practical right now, one of the things that I'm doing is, um, There's a really, there's a, there is potentially really big opportunity to optimize what we're doing. Right? So like in the second that I made, we're going after companies that have, uh, an employee base of no more than 250 people, right.

[00:11:38] Small, medium sized businesses. And even within like, even within that segment, there's so many different, like there's so many like archetypes of, of, uh, of companies, right? So you can have like a little mom pop shops that are never going to grow. You're going to have. Like the C like, no, the seed funded startups, you're going to have like the series a B startups, where they're going to be, they're preparing themselves to, to scale, right.

[00:12:00] To get up into a mid market base. So like one of the things that I'm realizing, they're like, all right, Hey, we have a huge book of accounts. We have all these different, like, Company personas within there as well. And we're like running through these things, but are we actually taking the time to look through, like, where are we getting connects and where are we getting responses?

[00:12:19] And like, rather than trying to figure out like, all right, how do I take this 1100 books like this, this book of 1100 accounts? Where can I actually get my quota from. And like how many accounts do I need to work? It's like, just go to the people you've already talked to. Like for the people who gave you a soft, no, a not interested.

[00:12:35] They gave you an objection and you did not handle it. Like that is going to be like, those are not going to companies. And those are going to be the prospects that will get you to hitting your quota. Right. So you've had an initial, you've had an initial touch point on them one time, right? Like what I'll, what I'm doing now is I'm going through every single call that my team has had, where we dispositioned CC interest, like call connected, interested, call connected, no bands.

[00:12:58] I'm going through, like, we, we leverage outreach. So I'm using their, um, email response, sentiment reports. And I'm going through like literally every single objection. I'm like, we ha like I've reviewed a hundred calls. And 75 of them to me are still yeses and we have not followed up. Right. So like, we're talking about how do I hit my quote?

[00:13:19] I'm only at 50% of my quota. I'm like, here's like here, here's a list of 10. If you have a conversation with them and you handle these objections. Well, that is a meeting. Sure. Yeah. I even saw a, I don't know. Do you follow Jake Dunlap? Yeah, I do. He put a post out, like, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago. And he was like saying let's Stephen, stop calling them objections and just call them questions.

[00:13:43] Right. And it kind of shifts the mindset, like, okay. An objection is like something that I got to combat. Right. Or I got to have that rebuttal right. Where like, they just kind of question they're unsure. They're unsure. So let's help them get sure. To get to a yes. So there's two things that I have for this, uh, w.

[00:14:01] One, there was like some quilt that I, I think I came across. I don't think I made this up, but simply put it says objections are, are simply requests for further information. So we need to give you credit for that. I don't know, but in a presentation from like 2016 or 2017, I was like, I don't know where I got this from, but I, I like that was, I remember being in an interview and I was like, this is a mindset.

[00:14:28] I was like, objections are simply requests for further information. So, I mean, even in how I, me personally, I'm like, I, I don't necessarily need to say it's an objection or it's a question or it's a request for further information. For me, it's all about the approach afterwards. If you feel like you have to combat someone, then of course, you're always going to be at war, but from my, and I'm like, I love when I get objections, I was like, you're talking to me.

[00:14:52] Right? You could have hung up the phone. If you really didn't want to talk, you would have hung up the phone. If you really didn't want to listen, like we still would not be, there would be no talk time the end. So the fact that you're willing to respond to me and like respond to the question that I'm asking, you're engaged.

[00:15:07] So like, my job here is just to keep you engaged. So the thing that you want to talk about is how you're. Not interested. Okay, cool. Like, walk me through that. Do you, or do you have a solution in place? Are you not involved in this, in this process that we're talking about here? Oh, no, I am. Okay. Cool. Well, tell me, tell me you're involved in this.

[00:15:25] What's your involvement, right? Like, okay. We have this objection. Let me just let me just hold space for it. You want me to pay attention to it? Cool. I'm going to pay attention to this moment because if I can pay attention to what's going on, like if I get the first four layers, like this is all like the frontal stuff, right?

[00:15:41] This is the most immediate thing. So another tip that I learned, right. When I was, when I was first in STR it's like, if people can only focus on. Seven things at a time, truly, really, and truly. So that's why we have, this is what the VP of sales at the time told me anyways, I was like, this is why we have a seven digit phone number system.

[00:15:59] Right? People can only remember seven things at a time. So our job is really to not dismiss the top seven things, but to work them through so that we can actually get to the latent pains or after the seventh thing. So even from my end, I'm like, if I need to get seven objections before I actually get to the heart of the matter.

[00:16:19] Cool. I was like, it takes time. Um, um, I, but I'm also, I also recognize for the style that I had of cold calling, cold prospecting, things like that, engaging, building a relationship. I wasn't, I was sincerely curious. I was like, okay, cool. Like you're. You think you're all set or you say you're all set. Walk me through that.

[00:16:41] Some people, Oh, no, you can't be set. You don't have our technology, but maybe your technology fucking sucks. Like maybe they really are all set. So from my end, I'm like, okay, cool. You are all set. I'm going to take my sales person hat off right now. And I really more than anything else, I'm super curious about what, like what people are doing in the market to address this specific problem that our solution addresses.

[00:17:03] So there's a better way of doing it. I really want to know. So getting, walk me through like how you're approaching this and like what's led you to use this specific methodology, this specific process, whatever else it is. Because again, if I'm like, Hey, my job is to deliver value and my solution doesn't do that.

[00:17:21] Then I would not be doing my job, forcing you to move forward in the process. Like. Yeah. So you're saying like lean into it. So many people are trying all the way. People are trying to skip past it or, you know, combat it. Right. Or so many people will just even give up when they get that all set, not interested.

[00:17:39] We have like all these common things that people say, just like get rid of you. And most people, I don't know if they don't have the confidence or they don't have the mindset to just like lean into it, lean in. What's the worst. Uh, I think there's, I don't even know if it's the, I think the piece that gets in the way is, and I don't even, I don't necessarily like the term like commission breath, but I think what gets in the way is people are so, like, they think that things are supposed to happen in a very linear process that I give you a call.

[00:18:10] I give you the pitch. I ask you my qualification questions. And if you're qualified, then we're booking a meeting. The end. I'm like, you are not deserving of a meeting salesperson because you are only following what matters to you and your manager and your qualification criteria. You have not demonstrated that you sincerely care about what's going on on the prospects.

[00:18:34] And so why in the world, why in the world. Would they actually say, Hey, listen, I'm going to follow your process because it would benefit you and help you help you get your quota. It's not about you as a salesperson. And I think this is also the piece that might be really, really helpful. Kevin Dorsey, like put up a post this past week or so.

[00:18:54] And he talks about like, w if, if one of the reasons that you're afraid of calling. Is because you're afraid of what you sound like or whatever. Then you've already messed up. You're already messing up because you're more worried about yourself and you are about what's going on in the prospective client's world.

[00:19:10] Like, again, my, and this is what I learned from the mentor, Derek, right? He's like, we are not selling products. We're not selling services. We are not selling like we're, we are selling value. So we need to know what's valuable to the people that we're talking to. Otherwise we are not doing our jobs. So like that, to me, it was like that.

[00:19:31] And again, I learned that and the very, very beginning of when I first got into sales, so I'm like, we have to, we have to do a discovery. We have to do the work to understand what's valuable to them. I think only then can we actually start to say, I think we have a solution for you, right? Like, does everything that you just shared with me is exactly why something like gong exists to be able to do exactly what you just said.

[00:19:54] You want to do. And I would love to, like, I would love to get your feedback. Like, I don't even want to say, Hey, listen, I'm gonna show you all the blends and all the features and like running through the platform. Yeah. I want to get your feedback on like, on honors, just based on what you're saying. Sounds it sounds like a good fit.

[00:20:07] I want to get your feedback first. We'll say your feedback. Then we can, then we can move forward. So I'm very much like, Hey, listen, I'm going to lead in all the way in. I'm going to tune into what you're saying to me, because I think even in that, what it can start to demonstrate is. I can tell this person something they're going to hold space for it.

[00:20:26] Right. They're going to actually listen to me. And when I'm getting ready to make this next step, I know it's going to be the most tailored experience to what is most relevant to me as a person and the professional that I am at the company that I'm employed at. Yeah. And there's a couple of key things you said, like you were G J being genuinely curious, and for some people that might not come natural.

[00:20:46] Right. So how did they, how do they build that muscle? Because being curious in being willing to ask those questions and actually care and not just pretend like you care, you know, it doesn't come natural for everybody. One of the things I noticed for myself, I think the first part is under there's a lot of like, self-awareness.

[00:21:04] That I, that I think has to come into play. So from, so from my end, when I was, you know, when I first started in sales, the STR cloud words, um, I looked at the technology and I was like, Oh, this is cool. Like, I wasn't really doing like digital marketing classes on my own. I was, you know, having lived in Paris and I was actually doing like translation work as well.

[00:21:27] And I knew how difficult and how expensive it can be just on like, just for me as an individual. So I started to think about, okay, well, I just needed to get my birth certificate translated so I can get my visa and it, and it costs me so much money. So like how much money is it costing these corporations to like deploy content on the regular, across the entire globe?

[00:21:48] I was like, Oh my gosh, I couldn't even imagine. So for me, I think the first part was I was already interested in this stuff. I think I was already personally impacted by some of these things as well. And so I already, I just had a genuine interest in the practice, in the, in, in the process. To begin with.

[00:22:04] And I've been at organizations where I did not care about the practice. I did not care about the process. Like I try to get into dev ops and cloud computing, and I was like, I, I, I don't care. The end. Right. But like I do care about sales process. I do care about sales methodology. I do care about how do we optimize and enable our sales team.

[00:22:24] Like that's like, those are all the business books that I have. Like, those are all the things that I'm invested in. So it makes a lot of sense for me to be at gone. And so then I'm like, this is just part of my flow. Anyways. I would be doing this, whether I've worked at this company or not. So I think the first part comes from making sure that when you go to a company, like if you can act and recognition without bills to pay.

[00:22:44] But it's like having an eye, right? Like you have an eye for things that you can actually get invested into. Like, if you are not interested, not just in your company, but in the, in the, uh, but the customer that your company's service and support, if you're not interested in those competent, in those, in those, uh, in those customers, you're probably not interested in the company that you're going to go work for because that's your entire world as a customer.

[00:23:10] So I think there's an assumption of like, you have to be customer centric. Right. Um, and the second part is like you be aware of what you're naturally more inclined to be interested in. And if there are technology or companies out there where that can be your world for eight to 12 hours a day, then, then it becomes a lot easier to go.

[00:23:33] I'm really excited about rooms, case studies and these, and these customer stories. Right. Cause I want to be a customer expert. I I'm like, I'm just genuinely curious because of taking the time to figure out what I'm interested in and what I want to spend again, like 12 hours a day doing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even getting.

[00:23:53] Trying to see if you, do you get excited about whatever the value is that you're bringing it to people, right? Like I think so many people end up taking a job just because they gotta pay bills, but yeah. Be a little more selective, be a little bit more selective if you can. Right. I get, it might be hard for some people, but, uh, but it matters because it's gonna make a big difference of, you know, Your level of success.

[00:24:22] Yeah. Level of success. And also I think like the quality of your work, all of it together, I've been, yeah, I've been, I've been reflecting all idea. I take my, like, I'll go out and I'll walk my dog or I'll walk around the block. And that's usually my time to like really think through things. And, and, and again, I'm, I'm reflecting on something I heard from Katie, but he had, he had said something in one of his trainings where he goes.

[00:24:48] There are some people who worked harder for their high school basketball team than they do in their work, like as professionals and I'm. And I grew up playing basketball and volleyball competitively. Like I was a two sport athlete all year long and, and. And I was like, it is so much work to play club ball to play basketball or volleyball.

[00:25:12] It's so much work, so much dedication, so much travel. I was like, I mean, I was, uh, I was at practice at five 45 in the morning for my volleyball practice, you know, at high school I have. School from eight 30 to three 30 that I'm in practice again, right? No, but it's even more than that. It's a whole lifestyle.

[00:25:32] Like you're eating properly, you're sleeping properly. You're taking care of your body. He's not doing all of that though. Like, I think, like, I think about the people that I played ball against, whether it's volleyball or basketball and people are in the w NBA or they're playing for the national team or in the, like, there was one chick who was in the Olympics and I was like, yeah, So they were eating properly, sleeping properly.

[00:25:57] I was like, but I was like, I, yeah, I knew their hustle. And I was like, I don't want to do that hustle. Like I want to hang out. I want to eat hot Cheetos. I want to listen to music videos. Like I want to be the cool kids and whatever. So for like, again, like from my end, I think there were so many, this gets back to what I kind of share.

[00:26:12] Like there were so many times that I left so much room for doubt, right. Where people can go question. She's not fully committed. Right? She doesn't have the work ethic. She doesn't have the discipline. And those were the things that was like, that was a lot of feedback that I got in sports when I was younger.

[00:26:28] So like coming into sales, I think this is a piece of like, what are you going to commit to every single day? And if you know, you're not going to commit to it every single day. Right. Like, is it, are you okay with that number one for like, you know, or maybe you are and if that's you that's cool. But the next question is like, okay, cool.

[00:26:50] So you're not committed to it. And you're okay with that. Is your lack of commitment or is your gap and commitment? Going to actually get you to the places that you want to be when you want to get there. And I think that's the piece for me that I had to answer like this past, like yeah. This past year or so, where I was like, again, I like listened to Katie talk about it.

[00:27:10] And I was like, you know what came? You're so fricking. Right. And I have this moment, like I'm listening to gong calls on my day off. So I'm like, I'm committed. So the success of my team and we're not there yet, and I will do whatever it takes morally and ethically sound to solution near this, the end. And so like, there's going to be zero doubts that I'm not busting my ass and upskilling myself and getting better at my job and, and reinforcing that same mindset and attitude with my team.

[00:27:38] Right? Like you're, I'm just not going to leave any doubts on the table ever again. So that, that to me is what I mean by like, we have. We have to be committed. We also have to figure out like, what are going to be the things that we can actually commit to. It's like a diet, right? Like we're in whole workout routine.

[00:27:54] If I don't like this workout routine, I'm not going to do it every day. So I need to go figure out what is the workout routine that I, that I want to do every day or five days a week. Yeah. Yeah. And so something you said earlier, what I want to kind of circle back to, right? So like you said, you're listening, you're listening to gong calls.

[00:28:12] On your day off, right. As part of that commitment. Um, but then something that I wanted to circle back to is like, you know, helping your team hit quota is, you know, going through those. Calls are those records are those, you know, that we're maybe not interested or whatever the case is. Right. And it showed some level of interest that never got followed up with.

[00:28:36] And there's so much opportunity there. And I love to approach those, um, people in that, you know, in that status is just like, go, go back to them and like genuinely be curious and ask for, ask for some feedback. And when you do that, you actually be surprised what happened. Yes it right. It all got the feedback piece always forever and always, but yeah, reflecting back to being in the frontline seat and in column people like an email response or had a call and the person was like, no, not interested.

[00:29:10] Right. All them back whenever, like, whatever, if it's a couple of days, a couple of weeks afterwards and like, Hey Colin, it's Gabrielle. I know it. Wasn't I know you told me that you're not interested and I'm not trying to sell you anything. I'm. Really just really curious to get your feedback more than anything else.

[00:29:27] Yeah. Yeah. I liked it. I like to even say, Hey, you know, we, we, uh, we had some conversations previously for whatever reason, we may not have earned your trust. And I'm just curious, you know, what could we have done better? Ooh. Yeah. I love that. And they might just say, and they might say, you know what? Your sales person was just.

[00:29:47] Relentless man. They didn't listen to me. I wasn't ready. Right. You might get some feedback like that or they might say, you know, uh, actually we're really looking at this right now. And we just had some other projects and that happens more often than you'd think. But some people are scared to follow up with those deals that didn't go the way that they wanted to.

[00:30:06] And we're in that linear path that they think they're supposed to. I think there's, I've been hearing this a lot more of like people not wanting to sound salesy. They're like, I don't want to be the salesy and. I w a week ago, I was like, Oh, I get you. But now I'm like, no, like I'm a salesperson. I am. Right.

[00:30:23] But again, like, as like the piece of there's a difference between, Hey Colin, I've got this thing, you got to buy it. And you're like, no, it's like, well, you're dumb click, right? Like onto the next one. Just have that attitude the whole time. The way that I think about this for me is, uh, I was talking to like the director senior director over here at gong for sales development.

[00:30:44] We're not selling. And I was like, I know I was like, I'm a learner I love to learn. So I just come in, honestly, just like, I'm just here to learn. Like, that's my attitude more often than not is this is a, this is a learning opportunity for me. And so I really want to learn, like, what does it take to are your trust?

[00:31:02] Right. And, you know, using what you had shared, it's like, I really want to learn, like, what does it take to earn your trust? Like, can you walk me through it? It doesn't even have to be like a sales call. Like I just want to get feedback, right. Not going to try and pitch you anything. I'm not going to try and get you on a demo.

[00:31:16] But when you know, I'm selling, like we're selling to sales, people like salesperson to salesperson, what would you have done differently? Or like, what did the last person that you bought from, what did they demonstrate, right. That led you to feeling comfortable enough to commit to the next steps. So if we come in again, just genuinely curious, rather than being selfishly focused on, I need to hit my quota and whoever isn't helping me hit my quarter right now, does it matter?

[00:31:41] I think that's selfish. That's, that's not being like that to me is not the, I think of a salesperson, our job, like our job, we're selling value. That's not selling value. It's kind of, it's kind of a funny concept, right? By like, not focusing on what you're trying to get, what you're trying, where you're trying to go, or the goal you're trying to hit by not focusing on that.

[00:31:59] You'll actually get there. Yeah. A hundred percent. I try and break things out for folks like I'm like, all right. Hey. So if we're looking at it as. You call, you send an email, you sent a LinkedIn since thing then in the meeting happens. Like I have one person on my teams, like I did 14 calls a day, but no one answered.

[00:32:19] And I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it keeps coming up. I'm going to have a job for very long. But

[00:32:29] I said, yeah, like I, I, I did, I did minimal effort and nothing yielded results. I'm like, well, okay. So that's when we start bringing up stats, right. Again, this is things that I got introduced to us. So lucky I'm so fortunate, honestly, cause, uh, may was a good third day on the job of being an SDR or maybe the first day, whatever it was.

[00:32:48] And my boss, the boss at the time that I had the same as Dan and he comes back and he's got a poster of the inside stat now Zan. Right. But all the stats of how many, how many touches it takes to actually get contact with someone at the time, it was like 12 to 16. So it's like, you're going to have to call this person 12 to 16 times before you ever get to connect.

[00:33:10] And even when you do get a connect, it's going to take somewhere between two and three connects conversations. Before you book a meeting, I was like, all right, cool. So this is the work I have to do then we were, Oh, no, like they respond back to me over email right away. I was like, it's going to be okay.

[00:33:28] You still got like 16, 16 times, three more touches to go. Most people won't even make it to the 16 touches. Unfortunately where people can start to stand out. Like if we talk about different, I think there's so many, there's some times where I wonder if we're making sales way to, uh, um, there's always tools are coming out and being like legal, all about analytics and things like that.

[00:33:54] And, and sometimes I, at least this is what I'm observing is we, we become so, so focused on analyzing things as human beings that we paralyze ourselves. So it's like, rather than like, they're like, alright, I need to find out all this information before I call someone. I was like, no, you don't know the persona.

[00:34:14] Right. Have like, have an idea of like even how we can be valuable, just form a theory, have an educated guess as to what they're going to be interested in real briefly. And then test out your theory on them. Don't make assumptions, right? Yeah. But like, know that you're testing a theory, every single, every single time that you call someone and it's going to be okay.

[00:34:38] Like if you either your theory is wrong or it's right for this person, the end rep been like, you don't need to become a private detective to make a call. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, conversations are just too dynamic. Like you could do a ton of research and you don't know what's going to come up in the conversation.

[00:34:58] All that research could not help you at all. Yeah. That's the piece. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I realized that I'm like, we have like nine minutes left and I'm like, I could go, I can go on

[00:35:13] about it. I was like, listen, if you know, I was gonna say that if we, if we know the problems. But we know the people, right. We have some, some understanding of like what, right. Cause even when I think about values, like it could, maybe it's a problem. Maybe it's a challenge. Maybe it's an opportunity to take advantage of.

[00:35:31] So like let's, let's go and figure out what are they trying to do right now? Where are they at? And what is this person responsible for, for whatever they're focusing on. And we start there, right? We could probably have a really solid conversation and we can actually start to learn. If right. If something that we provide is valuable to them.

[00:35:51] And then if, if it is, then we can start to tailor the, how versus we're going to try and overload everybody on the front end of the call and lose and just completely lose them. It was like, ah, there's too much information here. I'm gonna shut down. Bye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or they just check out, stop listening.

[00:36:09] Anyway. Oh, I check out. Yeah, it's it's again, I, you know, listening to calls and when people are like, can you just get to it already? I'm like, no, yeah, you got to start fast-forwarding it. When are they going to finally get to what we're trying to do here? Yeah. I think this is the piece of, um, they're. Yeah, they're gonna be there.

[00:36:33] I, yeah, I could have a whole, a whole day, a whole clubhouse day on this, about. It's like this, the speed to identifying value, right? It's like, right. If we do our research, we can start to plug that into all the conversation. We don't have to overload the conversation on the front end of things. If anything, I'm like, if it's taking us four minutes on a cold call that lasts five minutes to actually find the piece.

[00:37:02] That we can like hook on, right. That's going to be valuable to that. It's like, we're not really giving ourselves a lot of time to optimize for the time that we have on the call. So if we can actually get that nugget in the first minute versus the fourth minute, so give it to us. What does that look like?

[00:37:18] So the way that I've done this in the past and his way, there was what I've done. I've continued to do the way that I got introduced to cold calls or launch a cold call, um, was you have an introduction. Right. Hey column, this is Gabrielle from gong, right? Like was say unrecorded line because we have to, um, the next part is relevance.

[00:37:39] So this is, this is, uh, this is why I'm reaching out to you. I have a value drop. This is why you should stay on the phone with me. And then I have my launch, which is, I want to ask you a question to create a dialogue because I, if I'm just talking at you, that's not a conversation. That's not a meaningful conversation.

[00:37:57] I'm not gonna learn anything from you. So. Well, this looks like in action is like, uh, granted when I did this, I didn't, I didn't ask, how are you doing? I didn't ask. You will had time. I've changed that a little bit, but I go, Hey Colin, this is Gabrielle from gong, uh, of research. Notice that you are doing some research on your company, noticed that you're, you're heading up a sales team over there.

[00:38:20] Um, it might be involved in how you're improving sales performance. We have a solution that goes along that actually makes this process a lot easier and faster. And it was just really curious, how are you going about this today? Or help me understand, how are you doing this today? I don't need you to know anything about how our features and our functions work.

[00:38:36] I don't need to talk you through, uh, I don't need to walk through a product manual. I really just want to learn number one, are you doing something like this today? And two, if you are, how are you going about it? So I believe we have something that's going to be really a lot. I don't say this to them, but am I in the back of my head?

[00:38:51] I'm saying people are already doing this process. But they're not optimizing and maximizing, and that's really where Gallen can come in. So let me learn first about how they're approaching this today and try and see if there are, if there's an actual use case, like we can actually optimize or maximize or streamline.

[00:39:10] Mm. And in that framework there, you're opening up to have a conversation, right. And so many people want to get to just pitching in getting the yes. Pitching and getting the yes. And the goal there is different. It's not to get a, yes. It's just to have a conversation. Like so many people think that like, everybody should do business with me and here's my linear process of getting them there.

[00:39:40] And that's not the case. The goal is to have conversations with people and see who makes sense and who does? Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent because otherwise like the, the. The other model of it is, um, and the gong gods might get me because we are very much like a stay on their focus place, but it's, it could be like, Hey, Colin, Gabrielle, over like over a gong on a recorded line, how are you doing today?

[00:40:07] Then people go, what? Why are you asking me how I'm doing today? Um, and then. Yeah. Well, I don't, I people are like, why don't you, like, why don't you ask people how they're doing today? I'm like, cause I, I, I don't care. Yeah, no, I don't care. Cause here's my biggest. And so this is also because when I lived in France, I remember, uh, the guy.

[00:40:30] So again, my ex, um, he came to visit me in Chicago. We were at Walgreens and he walks up to the cashier and the cashier was like, Hey, how are you doing? And my ex turns and looks at me. Like somebody just smacks his mother and in friends, he's like, what's going on? What do you mean? He's like, he's asking me how I'm doing.

[00:40:50] I'm like, yeah, that's what we do. And he's like, why would you ask me how I'm doing? If you genuinely don't have the time to, for me to answer how I'm really doing right now. So that was just that. So that's something culturally that I picked up when I was in France where I'm like, you don't actually ask somebody how you're doing, unless you want to sit down and hear about their entire day.

[00:41:11] So I was like, and that's not what that call was for. You might occasionally get somebody that's just going to spill their guts, whole space, the whole space. Yeah. You better be prepared if you're going to ask that question. Yeah. You have to be really prepared. So, yeah. So I guess it's like right here, like, Hey, it's Gabrielle from gong, right.

[00:41:31] And then you were, how are you doing? You respond. That's the first part then it's, uh, Hey, I was doing some research to do my three by three. I was doing some research on your company. I saw that you're growing. I saw that you're hiring and I saw that you're, you're leading sales over there. So I thought it makes sense to, to call you and see if you've ever heard about what we deliver having have, you know.

[00:41:53] Oh, okay, cool. Can I, can I give you my, my 27 second pitch? Cool. All of that is a minute and a half at least. And most of the time it's 27 pits. 27. Second pitches are not 27 seconds. They're much longer than that. So I'm like already, we've delayed our time to having a conversation by two minutes when we could have launched into the conversation after the first, like after, after the 20th or 30th.

[00:42:19] Second. Right. So now we have a minute and a half of what I call kind of a wasted real estate. And what do you see? Like how long are these, these, like first time, first call, cold calls. Like how much time are people typically giving, giving them talk if you're wasting that real estate, like how much time do you have, like on average.

[00:42:41] And so how much, I'm just curious. How much time are you getting? Yeah, I was going to say you probably won't get like five, five, six minutes. If you're lucky, you're wasting half your time. Almost half of your time. So, yeah. Yeah. And, um, and I think there's, there's one more piece that I'll, I'll kind of share here, which is, I do hear people have concerns and I'm working with sales, development reps.

[00:43:05] They're people are super early on, right. Might not have a lot of experience. And I think from like that experience can, can lead to increased confidence in whatever you're doing and in trying new things. So what I hear from folks is like, uh, Oh man, I almost forgot where I was going with it, but they were like, I think there was a third is a.

[00:43:23] I forgot where I was going with this. Sorry. But then they're like, she's like afraid of, uh, of trying some, it's like one part afraid of trying something new, but maybe even afraid of like, not knowing what to do in the conversation. And I guess this all goes back to Katie's point of like, if you're afraid of what you have, how you're going to sound, and that's, what's keeping you from making cold calls or keeping you from actually launching into the conversation very quickly.

[00:43:46] Then you were never actually focused on helping out that person, right. Career you're in it for yourself. And that's where, that's the first piece where you get in this mess. Yeah. You're already in a, in a losing mindset right out the gate. Yeah. It is fantastic having you on this was a lot of fun. Uh, thank you so much.

[00:44:07] Any final thoughts? What do you want to let folks know? What are we going to include in the show notes for them? All that good stuff. Yeah. Um, a couple show notes, one piece number one, I think like he has a get over yourself. That's uh, that's the first part. And one part of it is like, you've got to let go of the self or get over the self.

[00:44:28] The part of you. That is so focused on. I need to be perfect. I need to look good. Right. Or, or the, the part of you that isn't willing to do the work required to get to that next level. Like let yourself grow what you're literally just let yourself grow. Let yourself learn. Let yourself be open to just not knowing the answers.

[00:44:48] Because from there you can actually get a lot more done. Um, I think that's gonna really be like, be the hit home for me. That's the mindset of a sales Hossler and the second part that I'll share, the things that I'm really excited about or that I'll I'll promote right now is, uh, the woman in sales clubhouse, and I'm running alongside Aleksey and Hoodoo are.

[00:45:06] Who's a major H E R major accounts AAE over a displayer. Um, we have been, yeah, we've been running this women in sales clubhouse for, in, for the past few months, very much a space focused on having conversations to advocate and empower women. But it's also not just a space for only women, right? Like we have male contributors who were there almost every single week.

[00:45:27] Like we love having men there to, um, to participate in the conversation to ask questions and to share their perspectives. Um, we also recognize like, Hey, this can't be because a silent conversation amongst the genders, it has to be something that's integrated. So like, those are the things. So where can they find out more about that?

[00:45:46] Oh, okay. So go into clubhouse women in sales, right. Or follow me, Gabrielle Blackwell. They like be asterisk is like Rick love Al's name or Alex scene, mood war. We also have a LinkedIn page now, uh, called women in sales clubs. So feel free to check us out there. All right. We'll drop the, we'll drop the, uh, women in sales club link in the show notes as well as your LinkedIn as well.

[00:46:11] Thanks so much for coming on. Really had a. Fantastic time talking with you. And if you enjoy today's episode, write us a review, share it with your friends and as always, we're listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level?

[00:46:31] If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to. Sales check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host collum Mitchell. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.