Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
April 7, 2021

Episode #81 S1-EP81 Simplify Complex B2B Sales Strategies & Unleash Business Potentials with Anthony Iannarino

Anthony Iannarino joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Let’s hear from Anthony about how he started his sales career bearing ill feelings for the role only to find out that he was born a natural salesman. He then divulges into the details of his craft as he drops the superficiality and emphasizes on what is tactical.

Anthony Iannarino is the highly respected international speaker, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and sales leader behind The Sales Blog, an all-around sales platform that specializes in the planning and execution of complex B2B sales strategy. He is the founder and managing partner of two closely-held, family-owned businesses in the staffing industry, leading both entities in strategic planning while growing sales. Apart from being a top thought leader in sales strategy, he is also the designer of Level 4 Value Creation™ and Building Consensus, methodologies that help sales organizations achieve transformational, breakthrough results.

Focusing on helping professionals of each business reach their full potential, Anthony discovered his talent for coaching in 2007 while he was growing the sales force of his second staffing firm and came into a realization that he could contribute greatly into the development of a company’s sales culture. From blogging about complex selling processes, he gravitated towards B2B companies facing challenges in sales force management and performance. As a result of his professional speaking, consulting, and workshop facilitation, he developed the trademarked methodology that has been proven instrumental in helping sales organizations achieve revenue goals. 

Anthony graduated Summa Cum Laude from Capital University, earning his BA in Political Science and English Literature. He also attended Capital University Law School and acquired Harvard’s version of an executive MBA from Harvard Business School, OPM. 

Anthony has published three books - The Only Sales Guide You'll Ever Need, The Lost Art of Closing: Winning the Ten Commitments That Drive Sales, and Eat Their Lunch: Winning Customers Away from Your Competition - available in all major bookstores. 

Grab a copy of his free eBook - How to Sell Without a Sales Manager by clicking this LINK.

Find out more and reach out to Anthony Iannarino through the following links:

Join the Sales Hustle Community! Text “Hustle” to 424-401-9300!

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Episode 81 - Anthony Iannarino

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for. To up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales CAS helps sales professionals transform the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode of sales hustle. I am super excited today to have Anthony and Reno with me. And we've got some topics that we're going to talk about and have a ton of fun doing it. And as always, we will keep it tactical so that you can up your sales game.

[00:00:50] Anthony, welcome to the show. I love tactical tactical, practical, actionable. That's what you look for. If you're going to spend your time listening, you should get something for it. Yeah, absolutely. We, we keep these short and sweet. We drop three episodes of fire every week, no matter where people are located, they can tune in and up their sales game or maybe get the kick in the ass that they need.

[00:01:11] Sometimes we need those. Um, so for those that maybe don't know who you are, just give us the short version of, of your sales story, and then we'll jump into the tactical. So sales story is a long story. I'll do the fastest version. I can. I started making cold calls when I was 15 for a charity. Setting up bike Athens in a, in communities.

[00:01:30] And I was the only person to get to bike Athens. In the short time I was there before I got a job at a skating rink where I was surrounded by young people, my age of 15, which was a much better gig. I wasn't cold calling anymore. So, uh, that was all good. I went into my family's business in temporary staffing, and I was told when I wasn't busy to call people and see if they could use some help.

[00:01:51] So I didn't believe I was selling at that time. I was just calling people and seeing if they needed help. And, uh, some people were grouchy. You'll find those people, you make cold calls and some people yeah. Were great. And I ended up winning some business. I moved out to Los Angeles to front a hair metal band when I was about 21, 22, right.

[00:02:08] In that area. Yeah. And, uh, I had to get a job. So I went into staffing and I was an operator. So I was placing people, interviewing them, doing, taking care of clients. And I got a manager and the manager recognized that I'd won more accounts than all three of his salespeople combined. Just by calling and asking people if I could come out and talk to them.

[00:02:28] And, uh, he eventually said you're going into field sales and I'm like, I hate sales. I hate salespeople. They're smarmy, manipulative, pushy they're self-oriented and money grubbing, horrible people. I would never be one. And he said, how do you keep winning all these deals then? Are you all those things? And I was like, no, I'm not.

[00:02:46] That's why I get deals. And he said, you're perfect. So, uh, he asked me to cut my hair. And I had to explain, like I found a hair metal band. I don't, I don't front a metal band. It's a hair metal band. And, uh, I, I wind for a little while and then I took it up to shoulder length, put a pony tail on and then went out and became the worst salesperson ever.

[00:03:06] Like I was now, instead of trying to help people, I was trying to sell people. I was trying to do something to them instead of doing something for them. And it took a little while for that to wear off. And then I just went back to doing what I felt natural to me, which is I know the problems they have. I know how to solve this problems.

[00:03:22] I'm just going to talk to them about those things and it ended up working out great for me. And then I had a grandma seizure. I had an arterial venous malformation. I had a brain surgery lost part of my right front temporal lobe. Went back into the family business, grew that to $50 million. And for the last 11 years, I've written a blog post every day on sales.

[00:03:43] And then portfolio offered me a book deal size of a three book deal with them that I already finished. And now I have the outbound conference and, uh, I do a whole bunch of work around sales, acceleration, and enablement is that it's kind of long, but that's short version packed with a lot of stuff in there.

[00:04:01] It sounds like it's been a bit of a wild ride. Yeah, it is that's life though. Right? It's how it goes. I mean, from going to, I'm curious, uh, I'm curious from going from the place where you were just helping people and doing really well. Right to going to kind of forced into this sales position where you had all these ill feelings about becoming a salesperson, and then you said you became the worst sales person ever.

[00:04:29] Yeah. So tell me a little bit about that. Did you get some bad advice or what happened? Well, it's kind of like it's sometimes the bad advice is something that looks good to you when you're a rep, to be honest with you. So I worked for a company called oil spin services. They were a $4 billion stabbing company.

[00:04:47] And I was on Mid-Wilshire in LA. Like I have the whole territory is mine and they gave me this binder and the binder had 84 pages in it. And I went out on calls and I would open up the binder, like I was told. And I would start on page one and I would say, uh, Collin, very great to meet you William most and started Austin services in world.

[00:05:09] Why are you grinding already? Like I can already see where it's going. Yeah. So. I had my boss, he went on a call with me and I think I was on like page seven or something. And I'm still reading the whole thing out loud to the client. And I just sort of noticed his look is like, I'm going to stab you in your face.

[00:05:27] If you say another word, like he's not happy at all now, what are you seeing? And I just plowed through and you know, if you've ever had a sales manager, like when you're done with the call, you're going to have a conversation and we're on the elevator and we're on our way down from the her office. And he goes, well, how do you think he did?

[00:05:46] And I said, I feel like I did pretty good. I mean, I think it went really well. And he said, I think you should be brought up on charges for cruel and unusual punishment that woman's in a catatonic state and we're never going to recover after what you did to her. And I'm like, what are you talking about, man?

[00:06:02] He said, nobody cares. What's in that binder. And I'm like, you guys gave me the binder. Like you told me, this is what you gave me. And you told me that I have to tell people all the great things that we do. He said that's dumb. Like nobody cares about us. He goes, they only care about two or three things. I said, well, what are those things?

[00:06:19] He goes, you'd have to stop talking long enough to find out like you, you, you just talked him that woman's now harmed by you. And I want him to call us with him and it sort of showed me like, it's not what you say, it's what you ask. And it's the value that you create. So he was a really good sales were up.

[00:06:37] I mean, he was a, a leader, but he was a really good salesperson. And I saw, he asked very few questions, but very impactful. And he helped people understand the decision that they were making. And we went from in that business, that production is measured in hours. So 2000 hours a week, and a year later, we were doing 22,000 hours a week.

[00:06:56] So we, we massively increased the size of the office, just the two of us. And that was, we were the only two selling. And basically I was bird-dogging form at the beginning. That'd be go out and beat the streets. When I brought something back. He'd come in and help close it. So the first big deal I needed him on was a $10 million a year.

[00:07:17] For five years, I was 24. I was way out of my element. Like there's grownups in the room, you know? So you, uh, but the bad advice was surreal. No rocket, th th the heavy metal, uh, hair. Well, when he met me, it was at my waist. So we went up to about right here, black crows length, and I was allowed to wear a ponytail.

[00:07:40] He's like it's LA people were at ponytails out here. It's all right. All right. Interesting. All right, so, so it sounds like, uh, you learned a lot of foundational things from, from, from that mentor. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, great. At the sales conversation that that's, what's most important. How good are you at the sales conversation?

[00:08:03] Now what's interesting is there's still a lot of people doing, uh, you know, a more modern equivalent to you reading that binder today. I know. And why do you think that is? They've not been taught, trained, coached, and developed to have a modern sales approach. And so the general differences. The Mo the legacy approach that a lot of people have is that I'm trying to prove why you should choose us and try to help you choose our solution.

[00:08:37] So that doesn't create a lot of value for the other person, if they're concerned. And like, I don't know if your company is big enough, those questions might be asked, but for the most part, it's not useful to the client. The client's trying to make a good decision for their business. So the way that marketing things about selling is tell them our story.

[00:08:54] Everybody loves our story. No one loves your story. No one cares about your story. They care about their story and they're hoping that you help and that you're interested in their story. So we start with, and I have no idea who came up with this, but it's, it's why change? Why now? Why us, so the why S comes away at the end.

[00:09:11] And so when people start that they're having a conversation that probably isn't even necessary if they had a better control over the sales conversation. So if they understood like this, person's trying to make a decision. What are the factors that they should be considering? What are the false assumptions that they might be suffering?

[00:09:28] Some, what are the mistakes that people make when they make this decision? What are the concessions that they make that they shouldn't make? Because it's going to damage their results? Why should they choose this thing over that thing? And what are the different models that they have to choose from? And why should they choose one over the other?

[00:09:44] Like that's when you're creating value and people are going, like I'm learning a lot. What you're trying to do is create the aha moment for that person where. Discovery used to be like, what's keeping you up at night call and tell me what's going on in your world. What's your pain points. What's your hot thought?

[00:09:57] And you tell me, you tell me now, it's, I'm telling you, these are the things you should be worried about. These are the things you should be concerned about, and you're teaching me and I'm teaching you where we're having a conversation where I'm giving you new information. You're giving me new information.

[00:10:12] So we're getting closer to understanding what we have to do together to get a better result. It's a very, it's a, it's what I would call a modern sales approach. And I would, I would differentiate it from what I would call legacy approach. Like you've been using that since 1980, so we've moved past it.

[00:10:29] Well, I, I, I understand that, but I don't think I've heard it explained that way. And, and so I get it right. I mean, the legacy approaches is more about me and less about you, right? And the more modern approach, which. I would even say what you're talking about is modern 2.0, like yeah. It's even ahead of where most people are.

[00:10:53] Most people I think would consider them their approach or their playbook modern, where, you know, the discovery is more, you know, asking questions and sometimes it can feel like a bit of an interrogation if it's not done. Right. Um, but where it's it's, it's, it's more dynamic, it's more collaborative. It's more consultant.

[00:11:10] Yeah, it has to be more consultative. And, and what I would tell you is that it probably is a 2.0 or a 3.0 for me. Um, because I'm like, as a, as a teacher, um, I'm your MBA capstone teacher, you know, I'm like, I'm not your two 10 English class, uh, in sales, because I think that there's a lot of things like the non-linearity of the conversation now that consensus seeking that executives now look for, and the trick is.

[00:11:39] The thing that you're being measured on. If you want to differentiate yourself, it's the value that you create in the conversation. So if you're not one up, like if you're not a peer, if you're not somebody who should be teaching and making the decision for the client, you're not going to be a value creator.

[00:11:54] And so what a lot of people do, uh, Collin, as they like, well, let me tell you about my company. That means don't look at me for the value creation. Look at this company. This company has been around Colin for a hundred years. Can you imagine we've been around a hundred years? Imagine how good you have to beat him through all of these recessions and the other person it's like good for you.

[00:12:14] Good for you. Yeah. I'm so happy for you, but it doesn't help me very much. Now let me tell you about our wonderful solution. So the marketing people say, tell the story, the product people are like, the product practically sells itself. No, of those. This is the only product that sells itself. Like this is the only one.

[00:12:31] There's no other products that sell itself. Like this is that one that you have other than that, everybody else has to sell. Well, And you have to end the product might keep them around and sell itself in that way. But somebody still got to sell them on, on the product to even, you know, spend some time using the product or anything like it.

[00:12:49] And so what's, what's, what's interesting here. Yeah. I mean, and some of them even take it further, right. They tell them about, we've been long around this long. Then they go logos and case studies and all this stuff, but it's nothing about them. It's nothing relevant for them. So the, the, the way you might think about it is.

[00:13:07] So if my problem is, I don't really know enough about Collin's company. I wish I knew more about it. They woke up in the morning and like, you know what? I need to figure out what Collins companies like know, then that would be very useful for them, but that they're like, I have this problem where I'm not getting the results in my business and it's stopping us from succeeding and it might cost me my job.

[00:13:27] And I might end up having to do some sort of a major transformation if we don't figure this out, that's what they want to talk about. And they hope that you're interested in them. Yeah. And if you dig deep enough, there might be even more problems. I didn't even know exists. Oh, you'll teach them what they are as you go through that.

[00:13:42] For sure. Right. Right. And, and so how does, how does somebody get started that just hasn't, you know, been taught this or, you know, cause this is a very. Different way. Like a lot of people want that silver bullet. They want that playbook. They want that script. They want that binder, you know, that you describe, they say this, I say that.

[00:14:03] And it's just, it's just too dynamic. Like, you know, you, you ask good questions that lead to other questions and it could feel overwhelming for a lot of people. Yeah. So one of the things I I've written three books now, so the first book is called the only sales guide you'll ever need. You don't get to name your books.

[00:14:20] The publisher does. So I thought it was a bad name because we have the three book deal. So I'm like, but it's not the only one we're selling them two more. Right. And they're like, yeah, but no one will remember everyone remembered my book came out. My second book was 10 months later. So the second book is called the lost art of closing.

[00:14:38] And the loss started. Closing is a way to look at the structure of this conversation. First, I have to ask you for time, then I have to ask you to explore change. Then I have to ask you, does it make sense to change before this becomes a bigger problem or before it's, um, something that you're going to have to do?

[00:14:54] And then can we collaborate on what a solution looks like? That's a commitment. Can we build consensus on your team and other commitment? That's five so far. If you're counting six, I need to talk about money. There needs to be an investment conversation. I need you to review the solution and make sure it's exactly right.

[00:15:11] I need your team to tell me whatever concerns they have so I can resolve those concerns. And then I can ask you for the business. So the decide is number nine, and then at 10, I need you to execute. So I sold you this. So I'm thinking about like the SAS guys, you sell them something. When the pandemic started, I got a lot of calls from SAS companies and it was everybody's canceling us.

[00:15:32] And I'm like, because they don't use your software and because you didn't make them. So it's easy to get rid of you because they're not capturing the value. So the 10th commitment is you got to execute. So when you see this structure, then you understand. I have to tell you Collin, the value of the next step.

[00:15:49] So when I call you and I say, Colin, it's Anthony and arena. I'm with XYZ widget, Inc. We're a world leader. Love to stop by tell you about the company, tell you about all of the amazing solutions that we have for companies, just like yours, share with you. Some of the things we're doing with your competitor and learn a little bit more about what's going on in your world.

[00:16:09] What do you look like Tuesday at 11 or Wednesday at three o'clock. And they're like, well, condom, I'm, uh, having my hair done at that time. You know, Anthony, you don't even have any hair. I know, but I'll find something to do other than have that conversation with you because I've done this before and it's a total waste of my time.

[00:16:28] So the rule in that book is you have to trade enough value to command the commitment that you're asking for. So if I said something like this con and you'd like practical tactical, I do too. If I say Collin is Anthony and arena, I'm with XYZ, widgets. And listen, I've been listening to your podcast and I want to tell you the four trends that we think are going to have the biggest impact on your ability to get the truth traffic that you want right now.

[00:16:52] So, listen, I want to ask you for a 20 minute executive briefing, even if there's no next step, I'm going to leave you with these insights and you can start working with your team to make some of these changes. What does Thursday afternoon look like for you? I have a hair appointment, but I will cancel, well, you will actually have hair so you could have the hair appointment.

[00:17:10] Yeah, it could. But if you, but if you were going to provide, if you were going to deliver on what you just promised, I'm canceling that appointment. Cause that's important. Yes, that's it. So the trading value means it has to be about them. It has to be for them. It has to be something that's useful for them.

[00:17:27] And the more you want to talk about you, the less you're talking about them and. That's what they really care about is do you understand me? Do you care about me? Do you have the information that I'm missing to make good decisions? And this is modern a modern sales approach. Yeah. No big difference there.

[00:17:44] There's not very many people doing it that way. I'll tell you that right now there's a lot of bad sales advice. W what, what are some, what's some of the bad sales advice you see out there that we can just debunk right now? One of them that I wrote was the law started closing because people were saying never be closing.

[00:18:01] Never be closing and it sounds good. And I was listening to a, a group on clubhouse, talk about this idea and they were sort of proud of themselves. Like we're morally superior and elevated enlightened people. Like we don't need to close anybody. We're just here to help them. Well, how do you help them? You make sure that they make the commitment to having the conversations that they need to have so they can make a good decision.

[00:18:25] So it is always be closing. But it's not always be closing like a trial close or checking to see where they are. It's closing for the next actual commitment, which Neil Rackham wrote in, in spin selling in 1988. And people still don't do it. You have to get some commitment that moves the conversation forward.

[00:18:46] So Bracken wrote that. I wrote the book to say, these are the 10 that I recognize. I recognize 10. You might have a different 10. You might have four different like, well, where do you say I need all their information from their database? I don't know where that goes in your structure, but there's some commitment that you need.

[00:19:01] If they want to get the right answer, you give us the data. So that's the kind of things that people have to understand. So the bad advice of never be closing, of course you have to close and look, when you get to the ninth commitment, you got to ask them for their business. I mean, you're going to ask for a verbal when you present, but you've got to ask for the business.

[00:19:19] You don't sit and wait and go. I'm just waiting for them to ask how's that deal going, Anthony? I'm waiting. I gave him the proposal now that I'm waiting for them to decide, they don't get to decide. We have to have a conversation or their concerns what's going on. Can I sign this or can I have you signed this?

[00:19:35] And can I put this in place for you? You have to close. It makes no sense. It's terrible advice. Hmm. Yeah, I see that. And you know, I think that people have created a negative association with closing as like that's the, the, the evil, dirty word. And, and you're right. You can be helping, you can be serving, but you're still, you're still closing.

[00:19:59] Now, if you look at it for that sort of aggressive, like if you're just always closing and, you know, not really trying to help and serve or provide some value, then yeah. It's a negative thing. But if, but, but to say that you never close or you don't close is, is ridiculous. I would say that you would, the better way to say it would be something like, don't try to ask for the final commitment to buy.

[00:20:24] Before it's time before you've done the work. And before they're ready to say yes, like get them ready, like do the work and then I'd ask them. Yeah. Okay. What's uh, what's another one. Well, the other one that's had my attention lately is this idea of selling should sell the way that buyers would like to buy.

[00:20:44] And I'm like, well, what does that mean? Well, you know, they want you to have insight and all this other stuff. That's what I like. The Forester, gardeners, all those guys will tell you. So you'll see all that stuff. And then the salesperson that hears that advice doesn't know what it means. Like you should sell the way the buyer wants to buy.

[00:21:02] Okay. So Colin, first off, just send me that in an email. That's how I want to buy. I want you to send me any, yeah, just someone that pricey just sent me a surprise. I don't have time send me pricey. Yeah. Yeah. And then you'll say, well, can we talk to your team to make sure you're dialed in? I'll be the one making the decision.

[00:21:17] You can just work with me. Like when you look at how buyers buy. They make all kinds of mistakes in the buying process. They go out and search on Google and they think, well, I understood this because I'd read it on Google. You have no idea about the context of those decisions. So you have to help them understand the decision that they're making.

[00:21:34] I just think it's a horrible idea to say something like sell the way that buyers want to buy without defining how they want to buy when you define it and you go, well, they'd like to be transactional. Can't do it. I can't be transactional. Otherwise I'm a commodity and I lose. And I prefer to win. Cause so far, Colin, I've never been given a commission for a deal that I lost, but tried really hard to win.

[00:21:57] No one's ever going to good try, dude. We're going to put it in your checked checking account today. Never happens. You have to win. So you have to do what's right, right. And not what's easy. You mean that's hard for a lot of people it's supposed to be. That's what differentiates you? That's what makes you better than everybody else?

[00:22:15] When you do what other people are unwilling to do, you're going to get a result they're unwilling to get. So that's how it goes. Or you're going to be the one that gets a result and they're not, that's true. You will get it. And you see this too, is sellers saying like, you know, Hey, you know, what do you w Mr.

[00:22:31] Mr. Prospect, you know, what do you think the next steps are here? Well, it's your job to tell them what the next steps are exactly. How would they know what the next steps are and think about this. You sell what you sell every day, they buy it. Occasionally it might be five years between making a decision.

[00:22:49] You've learned all kinds of things about the right decision over the last five years, they have no idea. They weren't even tracking this. They just got to this new need, or they've got to this part where they have a problem anyway, where you've already done a bunch of work. And you're the one that should be telling them how to get the result.

[00:23:05] Right. And who else? You're the one that does it every day. Right? Right. Exactly. Uh, you got any more bad advice that you're seeing out there? See all kinds of bad advice, uh, pitching people on LinkedIn. Whoever's giving that advice. That's, uh, whoever's giving that advice. I don't even understand it. I just don't even understand it.

[00:23:27] It's so awful. It drives me nuts because there's so many people that, um, are ruining it for, for, for others. That are, you know, using the tool properly and adding value and building relationships and taking the conversations off the platform that, you know, it makes it harder for the people that are doing right.

[00:23:46] Cause they're, they just expect that you're going to be like every other four paragraph span message with our count in the Lincoln box. Yes. That's the one. That those come in fast and furious every single day. I mean, it is unbelievably bad right now. I would not say that they're ruining it. I would say they've already ruined it.

[00:24:06] I believe it's already ruined. And I think the problem, uh, when you, when you really look at it, as we're paying for the sins of people who decided to try to automate it to try to make it easy, you should not try to automate the things that you do. So the other thing that I would tell you, that's bad advice right now.

[00:24:25] A lot of people have been taught that they should have a sequence that's automated for them. That just sends emails. I've been thinking about this and I was writing this. I just pulled up a note cause I wanted to remind myself of how much I think about this. You've got a choice to reach out to a client and there's going to be competition for you in the medium.

[00:24:47] Like the medium comes with competition. So LinkedIn, clutter, a lot of competition. All bad examples of how to sell. So you're immediately suspect in that platform, right? You're immediately like you reach out. People are like, Nope, not you. You're a salesperson. I know what's coming next. Even if it's not true.

[00:25:04] So even if it's not true, you suffer from that. So this idea that email works because it works once in a while, has got people sort of wrapped up around the idea that we should try to be efficient and sales. You should not try to be efficient and sales. You should try to be effective in sales. There there's no prize for being efficient.

[00:25:25] So is it easier to send an email than to call somebody for sure? Is it as powerful as calling somebody? Absolutely not. Is it easier to do a zoom meeting like we are, but we're far away from each other. Uh, is it easier to do a zoom meeting than to go see somebody? Yes. But if you're in an enterprise situation and you don't go see somebody for discovery, you're just, you're making a very, very bad mistake.

[00:25:50] So I've been thinking about this Collin and as a, as a competitive salesperson, which I am, I'm incredibly competitive. I think of this as like a football game. So the client's going to spend two hours with salespeople. How much of those two hours am I going to get? I hope I get like one hour and 38 minutes and I leave 22 minutes for the rest of the field.

[00:26:15] Like I wanted like a football game. I get the ball the whole time. I get to try to score. You're you're going to have to be on defense. Cause I've already taken all the time off the clock. That's what I'm thinking. So what's the one place. So that's a football game. Let me tell you the other place. Email what's email like emails, like a basketball game.

[00:26:34] So we have a tip off right now, but there's not two people tipping off. There's 126. There's 126 people buying for the ball because that's the average number of emails. A knowledge worker gets every day, 126. So that message comes in and then there's a new message. Every four minutes on average for people.

[00:26:55] So let's say 40 minutes goes by you're 10 deep. Now another 40 minutes. Cause I you're, you're now way deep in this, you might be, you're probably on the second page. You probably on the second page already. And it's a sales message. So it's not going to come into tension when you pick up the phone, how many other people are on the phone when you're talking to your clients?

[00:27:18] No just you zero. Just you, you've got, you've got a strategy where there's no one else in the room with you, except you, when your client, when you show up in person, how many competitors in the room with you when you show up in person? Nobody, just you maybe, unless your competitors are in the lobby or something, I've actually in the room and staffing.

[00:27:39] I've been in the room where there's two of my competitors sitting in the room at the same time. That's unusual, but I'm very quiet in that case. Like I'm not teaching these bozos anything, like I'm not telling them how to work. And I would listen to them. Like I'm not even asking any questions because they're questions are so bad.

[00:27:54] I'm not giving them my questions. I'm not willing to help them. So I'm a very quiet person in that situation. But then like, you have to think about the advice you're being given. Why do you want to be efficient? Do you win more deals by being efficient? I don't think so. I think you win more deals by having better conversations.

[00:28:11] With the right targets. That's it? So that's where you should spend all your time. Yeah, no. So being more effective, over being more efficient, it's not that you need more people. You just need the right people one-on-one or you have their attention and you gotta have your messaging down one on one to be effective.

[00:28:32] One until you get to the consensus where there's going to be one on seven or 14, whatever the number is. You got to get shit done behind you. And you've got a sales hustle podcast. So hustle means something very, very important for salespeople to understand. Cause they say the word, but they don't say it in the right way.

[00:28:50] And now it's sort of, sort of lost its real power. So we need to give it back the power that it had and that that power was I'm going to work on things that are incredibly important with greater urgency and passion that's hustle. That's hustle. So, if you want to produce better results, hustle's a very, very good way to get there.

[00:29:12] And I will tell you most of the time, if you decide to that, your main strategy is going to be doubt, work, everybody, you have no competition. You have no competition. Most people don't want to work hard. They don't want to work with a sense of urgency. They're sitting in, in their inbox, waiting for emails to come in and you have to do exactly the opposite of all of these habits that you see people practice today.

[00:29:35] That aren't good for salespeople and probably not good for anybody, honestly. Yeah. I love that. I mean, my first sales job, I learned a lot of bad habits, but the one piece of good advice that I got that still sticks with me today is all you gotta do is outwork the competition. Yeah. And I'll never forget that.

[00:29:56] And it served me well for over 10 years now. And a lot of people aren't willing to do that. That your, your beard is all black. Like it's all dark. Mine's all white 10 years. He says 15 minutes. So yeah, I've been doing it a little bit longer than you, uh, hair. Well, I mean, I think, uh, that, uh, you know, I still have a lot to learn so immediately I, I, uh, I, everything that I've learned has been from books, podcasts, and blogs, and.

[00:30:30] Uh, and, and I still, one of the, one of the best things for me with the podcast is, is meeting people like you and getting to learn, and also give back to the sales community. Like that's what I love doing. That's a great way to do it. I know I have a podcast. I bring on Seth Goden because Seth Godin teaches me all the time.

[00:30:51] And I would just tell you, you know, there's a couple of things. If I would give you the last piece of advice that I think is bad is, is more of a. Let's call it a crime of omission, not commission, but omission. Uh it's it's not, it's not focusing very heavily on development. So there's, there's a number of things like you can do transactional sales, you can do solution selling.

[00:31:18] Are you going to have a modern sales approach? So the development is how do you go through that progression so you can get to be truly consultative. And so all of your time, if you're a salesperson, right. You should be going exactly what Collins just said. You should be reading. You should be listening.

[00:31:33] You should be following blogs. You should get every development opportunity you can. If there's a place where you can take training, you should take the training. If there's something that you can do so that you can get the skills and the competencies and the character traits that you need. That's the greatest investment you can ever make is the investment you make in yourself.

[00:31:51] There isn't a greater investment. The more that you work on the input, you're the impact, the better your output. So if you're, if the input's not good or the input's not strong enough to create the result, then you've got to work on the input if you want the output. And I think that we let people think that because they know how to make a phone call and they they've sat in a meeting before that they're going to be able to create value and differentiate themselves and create a preference it's harder to do.

[00:32:16] Now it's much harder to do so the bar is very high and if you're not creating a strategic level of value and you're not having that kind of conversation, it's going to be very difficult and it's going to get more difficult in the future. Yeah, no, I think that's great advice. And where, who are some other than yourself who are some people that you would recommend and then people follow up?

[00:32:37] Well, I know everybody say, yeah, I would tell you, uh, follow my friend, Jeff blunt. Yeah. Follow my friend, Mark Hunter, follow my friend Mike Weinberg. Um, definitely go back to some of the things that are older that are still worth your time. Anything that Neil Rackham wrote is absolutely worth your time and attention.

[00:32:57] So spin selling's good major account sales strategies, even better. Uh, the book by, uh, um, Colossae who wrote it for Franklin Covey, let's get real, or let's not play that books from the nineties. Read that book, that book will change your sales approach. You'll be much more direct than you'll be a very, very different salesperson after you start applying what, uh, what he wrote in that book.

[00:33:21] Like there's a whole bunch of things. I would tell you, just keep, keep working at all times. Like you'll never be done developing you. Can't yeah. Human being, as far as I can tell us ever reached their full potential, including Einstein or DaVinci or any name you want to throw onto that list, but you've got a lot of runway in front of you.

[00:33:42] Yeah. There you go. Never stop learning. All right. So Anthony, thanks so much for coming on today. Really appreciate it. Uh, why don't you tell folks, you know, anything that you want to, as well as, you know, tell them about outbound conference and where that is and where they can learn more about it as well was the outbound conference this year is everywhere.

[00:34:01] So we're doing it in Atlanta, at the Georgia world Congress center. It's a beautiful venue. It's huge. We'll probably have my guess is we'll have a thousand people there, something like that. Um, we're six feet apart right now. I hope it will be three feet apart by the time we get there. We'll see. And if you're uncomfortable, you can get the virtual outbound conference, which will actually start on Sunday and there'll be recorded in live content through the whole week.

[00:34:27] So we do a VIP day on Tuesday. We do a main stage day, Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays, and elite workshop day. If you get those tickets, but you can buy any of those packages online. And, uh, do this from the comfort of your own home or your office, wherever you are. And finding me, I'm pretty easy to find, go to the sales I publish every day there.

[00:34:49] So if you want to be consultative, like I would tell you just read this year, if you're already behind by about, I don't know what, what is the 25th of March? You're, you're closing in, on being 90 days behind, but I promise you what you read there will change your mind and help you understand what a modern sales approach is.

[00:35:07] Awesome. We will drop the link for the sales blog in the show notes, as well as the link for outbound conference as well. Anthony, thanks so much for coming on today. If you're listening to the podcast and you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review, share with your friends and we're always listening for your feedback.

[00:35:24] Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell.

[00:35:47] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review. And share the podcast with your friends.