Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Oct. 19, 2020

Episode #8 S1-EP8 Sales Is A Contact Sport with Mike Morgan

Collin welcomes Mike Morgan in this episode of Sales Hustle. We will hear Mikes’ story on how he unintentionally got into sales and to the sales leader he is today. Tons of sales take away are heard straight from Mike Morgan that will surely help level-up your sales game.

Mike shares his view on how the sales game has evolved in the 27 years that he’s been playing the game. As a sales professional, you have to align in order to be successful in the game. 

Let’s hear Mike as he shares some of the tactics to avoid missing out on the process, avoid injustice, and be as good as you can be. As a sales coach, Mike will definitely help in the pursuit of perfection and personal excellence.

You can find Mike on LinkedIn. You can also find Mike at Sales Champion Academy. Just hit the sales team! It will redirect you to a sales community with the intention to provide professional sales people inspiration, motivation, and resources to level-up their sales game.

If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.

Join Our Sales Motivational SMS list by texting Hustle to 424-378-6966. Please make sure to rate and review the show on Apple. 

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Episode 8 - Mike Morgan

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for to up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building.

[00:00:27] Process and win their dream clients. I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What's going on sales hustlers. I've got a special guest for you. Mike Morgan, who is the senior vice president of iHeart media. And he is the podcast host of the sales champions Academy. Podcast. I'm super excited for you guys to get to know Mike, learn a little bit more about his story, and we're going to talk nothing but sales and give you tactical things that you can use to up your sales game.

[00:01:01] Mike, welcome to the show. How you doing? I'm good. Colin. Thanks for having me, man. So I like, as I tell everybody, give everybody the short version of your story, how you got into sales, and then we're going to save the rest of the time to talk nothing but sales and pack as much value and tactical things that our listeners can start to implement into their sales.

[00:01:24] Process. Yeah, good stuff. So I got into sales. Like most people we'll do a completely unintentionally. I went to a college, played football, had no idea what I was going to do. Post-college uh, decided to try and get a job in sales, several sales failures later. Right. I found one that stuck. I got pretty good at it.

[00:01:42] Got into the leadership side of sales and for the last 27 years, I've either been selling directly or, uh, coaching and leading sales teams and sales managers and sales leaders and selling indirectly. So yeah, I kind of fell into it, but, uh, and still enjoy it today after 27 years. Wow. That's fantastic. All right.

[00:02:01] So tell me this. I have to ask, ask, what do you prefer doing sales yourself or being a sales coach leader mentor? Uh, um, I like doing it myself only because I enjoy the process. You know, it's a, it's a fun sales. It's fun, man. If you, if you get into it, it can be right. If you, with the right mindset, it can be a lot of fun.

[00:02:25] Um, and you know, Sales coaching, mentoring, coaching managing is it's a tough gig and most great salespeople would prefer to just sell, you know, but unfortunately somebody's got to lead right. Well, yeah, it's a, you know, sales speak, good salespeople, great salespeople know that they are mostly in control of their destiny in terms of, uh, production, income, uh, you know, quality of life.

[00:02:52] All of the things that most sales people will get into sales. To achieve. When you get into the leadership and manager side, you're indirectly responsible for your results by coaching and leading the efforts of others. So it's, you're one step removed from being in more control of the process, but that's where the challenge comes in to lead.

[00:03:09] Well. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. So tell me what has changed for you in your experiences of sales, of like how you were doing things when you first started. And how things are done now and what you teach and, and lead the people that work under you. Yeah. Great. Great question. Um, and, and significantly as the ant, the short answer to how things changed.

[00:03:34] Um, back in the day when I first started in sales, I worked in several positions that were like the call rooms that you saw in the Wharf Wolf of wall street. You know, boiler room. I mean, we were tasked with selling hopefully to people that needed it, but at the end of the day, tasked with selling to get something sold and to create revenue fast forward to today.

[00:03:53] Today, if you're not aligning. Client side or prospect side intimate, you know, real needs with what you have to sell. You're going to come across as a shuckster. You're not going to be successful. It's the, you know, the professionalism of sales has increased a thousand times since I got into sales 27 years ago.

[00:04:11] Yeah, that's I mean, I started the same way in sales as well, and that that's been a, you know, a common topic is like transition has, you know, the transition of a sales professional. It's really trans you know, transitioned to more of a. You know, customer centric, more solution, more service, more helping, less just selling for your commission check.

[00:04:35] You know, as my good friend, Larry Levine likes to say, you know, these prospects and buyers are smart these days, they can smell your commission breath from a mile away. That's right. They can, and you hear a lot about integrity and empathy and, uh, EPQ and all of these things. Larry talks a lot about selling from the heart, you know, great salespeople have always done that.

[00:04:55] It just wasn't the required method to sell years and years ago. Um, it's the minimum barrier for entry. Now, if you're not leading with a inherent understanding of what the person you're selling to needs before you ever have the first conversation you're missing out on the process, you're, you're doing them in an, uh, an injustice and, and, uh, and just not being as good as you could be.

[00:05:16] Sales is fully dependent today. Professional sales is fully dependent them. They on understanding at least as much about the person you're selling to and their business model. As you understand about your own company. If you aren't there, that's the very first thing you got to figure out as a salesperson is how do you get client side or prospects, intimate, deep information, and understanding so that when you reach out your engagement approach is meaningful, it uses words that your prospect uses it.

[00:05:46] It talks about things that your prospect wakes up thinking about, worrying about, you know, excited about. And when you can connect on that meaningful level, you get an opportunity to have a real sales conversation. And, and, and I think a lot of, I think that's a great point and I think it's hard for a lot of salespeople to show up that way, because it takes work.

[00:06:07] It takes work before you're guaranteed anything. You're not guaranteed that they're going to say, yes, you're not guaranteed that they're going to give you that 15 minutes that you desperately want. You're not guaranteed, that they're even gonna reply. So it takes time and effort. And the biggest thing is, is to really do it right.

[00:06:25] It's not that scalable. You can't automate, showing up that way. To a lot of people with a little bit of effort, you can, you can macro research and industry or a position. So senior vice president of sales for an advertising company, no matter whether you work for iHeart or Cumulus or Intercom, or, you know, NBC station, we all care and think about mostly the same things are, you know, there may be a little variance, but for the most part, what we care and think about is are we able to.

[00:06:54] Generate, you know, the advertising revenue that we need via the different channels that we have to create the results that we need. Well, if that's what I wake up thinking about, if you want to sell something to me, you got to add yourself, how does what I represent or what, how does what I bring to the table help Mike or anybody in Mike's position get further along in their quest for success and, and, you know, and it used to be more difficult to do this research.

[00:07:19] You know, I'm, I'm, uh, I'll be 51 years old this year when I was a young seller. You know, it was go down to the library and look up the SIC codes and, and, you know, look up in some of the business publications, you know, read some business magazines off the library shelf, or have them delivered. Now it's as easy as popping into Google.

[00:07:37] You know, we can even, there are services now I've got one connected to, uh, to my LinkedIn, uh, platform that, you know, if I click on someone's profile, it'll analyze their whole personality. For me, give me a pretty good read on who that person and you know what I mean? So there's so many ways to do research and so many tools at our fingertips.

[00:07:54] It's almost disrespectful to a prospect to not do that, you know, to show up the way I used to show up when I started, which was, Hey, Colin, tell me a little about your business. You know, if you say that today, you're an idiot and you're dead in the water because the minimum expectation, right. People expectation.

[00:08:10] As you know about me before you get here, you don't come equipped, man. Come on. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think there's some, some good points here. So, you know, you can do this, this macro research on industries or titles or specific niches. Yes. But to go. You can only, that's only going to take you so far, right? So to really get hyper personalized or real.

[00:08:32] Cause now there's so many people that already are doing that. Talking the language, using the verbiage, talking about the things that care, you know, mentioning the pain points that are common across certain verticals and industries like that. I would say buyers are even smarter and hip to that. Where they know, even now at that point, they know that's not even personal.

[00:08:54] That is something that was created by a system that put in place to try to automate being personal. Right. So now it goes from information to engagement approach, right. You know, there there's this, um, there's this movement into using video to engage. It's so few people. At this moment are using video to create engagement with a prospect that it's a wide open.

[00:09:19] You know, it's a wide open highway. At some point, it's going to be crowded. Everyone's going to be doing it and there'll be a different methodology. But you know, if you look at the fundamentals, the reason you do the research is it's just re it's a show of respect to show up with. You know, pre preloaded information.

[00:09:36] Like I have some reasonable understanding of what you do now. I don't, I don't presuppose to know everything about you cause everyone has a unique situation, but I will come with the basics. And what I really want to talk about is based on my knowledge of your industry and your position, you typically, you're going to need one of these two or three or four things.

[00:09:53] I just want to understand if any of those are pain points for you right now. And if so, which of those are so that we can focus in that direction, thinking that it's a viable approach right now. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. And I would add too. I would add to that, that keeping it short and sweet and to the point, I think is important because so many people have gotten caught in trying to pack as much into the pains and who they helped and this and case studies and features and reasons, and, you know, Cost savings and benefits and ROI.

[00:10:25] And it's like key take all that crap out and just leave the meat that really matters to that prospect. And then let them raise their hand. If they're interested, it's don't send them, don't send them a calendar link. Don't send them some pre gated content, send them stuff and just you're fishing. You're fishing for people that raise their hand.

[00:10:45] And once they raise your hand, You better know what to do once they've raised their hand and you better do a little bit more research so that when you do show up to that call, you're even more prepared. Yeah. So I, I try, I talk a lot about, um, serving as a seller. And what I mean by that is if you truly believe that you've got something or you have the ability to help the person that you're approaching, you have a different level of you, you, you, you feel a different level of responsibility to make sure you impart that information.

[00:11:12] You know, so if, if, if you start with the right intention, I'm, I believe in my heart of hearts that I can help you. I just need to make sure you understand what I might be able to do. And if it's good for you. Great. If it's not, you know, no worries at all, I'll contact you again in the future. Uh, but, but, you know, to your point, creating that, that message.

[00:11:32] Carving that message down to what's really important and center, you know, kind of focused on the center of what that person might be concerned about or thinking about, if you can learn to do that, that's a real skill. You know, what most salespeople do who are still struggling to become a professional is, as you said, I they'll dump 37 paragraphs case studies, white papers, links to other clients, resumes, testimony, you know, everything that you could think of in one email.

[00:11:57] And that's not a way to, you know, no one, no one reads that it's just not an effective way to communicate with anyone. And it really sets the table in the wrong way, because you're going to ultimately that first step impression is, is so crucial. Um, that anything you say after that is gonna mainly be ignored.

[00:12:15] Yeah. If, if I were, so if you're a sales person you're listening to this podcast and you're wondering, how do I level up my game? Or, you know, I'm just getting into sales. How do I make sure that I shorten my learning curve and, you know, ramp up on a profession on the professional side as quickly as possible.

[00:12:30] The very first thing, you know, Learn about the, the industries. The second thing is study the game, like get on LinkedIn and follow sales thought leaders. There there's a bunch of crap on LinkedIn, but there some really solid people who know really India have really ended up insights into a particular part of the sales process hook on a couple of those follow their content, engage with, Oh, you'd be surprised at how many people will help you, you know?

[00:12:57] Oh yeah. And those people. Those people that you do want to follow. They're all about helping and serving and they're putting out lots of, you know, they're putting out live stream content, they're doing videos, they have podcasts, they have sources. Those people, those people have so many, most of them have so many free resources to help.

[00:13:20] People in sales that, you know, you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not doing that. And I want to go back to something that you said, because it's so important. And I want to make sure that all the sales hustlers out there don't miss this point. You mentioned video. Implementing video into your sales process.

[00:13:39] One of the easiest ways to show up differently than everybody else and tell us and tell, of course it's not, but for now, it's, it's, it's a tool that most people aren't using because they're either shy on camera. They don't know what to say. They're not practicing, it's not being taught to them. Whatever the case is, video is one of the easiest ways to show up differently.

[00:14:01] Um, and if you know, and. And you can do that. There's even free tools out there, like loom that you can use, where you can just hit a video or even a quick screen share and show people a little bit about why they might want to talk to you or how you might be able to help them. Um, you know, that's a tool that we use and I love and encourage people to use.

[00:14:19] Um, and then there's other ones as well. Uh, but to add to that, if you're not quite ready for video something else, that's pretty effective. That a lot of folks aren't using is LinkedIn voice. Yep. All over that. I hear from people all the time. So when I first got one, six months ago, I'd never seen it, you know, and I, of course I listened to it cause it's so it was like, Whoa, Whoa, how did somebody get me a voicemail?

[00:14:41] Yeah. And, and I did that and then I started using them. And I can tell you almost without exception, if you send a voicemail via LinkedIn messaging, 97, a hundred percent of the time it's going to get listened to. And it's the only telephone kind of voicemail kind of thing that I know someone's going to listen to.

[00:15:01] Mostly because they've never seen it. Most people still haven't seen that, that, you know, a little, uh, tool in LinkedIn and they listen and it's like an easy way to, to get that opportunity to engage, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's an easy tool that you can use the, does it cost you anything to show up differently?

[00:15:17] And the thing that I love about it, I can't remember exactly, but I think LinkedIn. Makes you keep it either under two minutes or under one minute, it's short and sweet. You really got to maximize what you're going to say, which is super smart and the way it should be done. Cause who wants a big rambling, we smell.

[00:15:34] We've all gotten those voicemails where somebody leaves one and then calls back because it cut them off. Right? Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. So the fact that they make you keep it short is, is super smart. Uh, and it's, and it's one way that you can use to start showing up differently. Let me go back to something you mentioned about video.

[00:15:51] Cause I think it's really important that everybody listening understand that you should not, Hey, you don't need to show up professionally on video B you probably shouldn't. It's not a production contest. It's a content and engagement contest. And you know, it's like as a seller, if you sell it, sell in person, have you ever showed up where you spill your cup of coffee on your shirt?

[00:16:11] On the way to the meeting, didn't have time to change. It just had to go. I have. You know, we probably all have, if you've been an outside sales, did that affect your ability to sell or was that like almost a community? You know, almost like an icebreaker. Hey dude, please don't stare at my stain. You know, the whole meeting.

[00:16:25] I did definitely smoke coffee on myself, just wanting to get that out of the way, you know, everybody laughs and then we move forward. It's about being human and relevant on video. It's not about being right. Polished and perfect. Uh, so just, you know, and, and if that removes the barrier for doing video for some of you guys, just remember it's human.

[00:16:43] And honest and, and, you know, just real, not perfect and polished. Yeah, no, I agree with that. Just show up as you are with what, whatever you're wearing, you know, and, and, and people will appreciate the authenticity of that rather than you, you know, being in the fancy conference room, dressed to impress and, you know, speaking very professional, you know, just show up as a human being, being yourself.

[00:17:13] With the reasons that you're there, you're reaching out. And I'm a believer of using video in all stages of the sales process, not just in your outreach, but you know, once they're in your funnel, in your pipeline of, of, of continuing to use video throughout that relationship, it's too easy. Not to like you, I use loom, it's such an easy sell.

[00:17:33] I mean, like it's a foolproof. Way to communicate via video. It delivers cool messaging and, you know, depending on the, yeah, if you want to really get into loom, you know, there's, there's a way to manage the whole sales process actively via video, which is really cool. So, you know, you can make it, sales teams is just, uh, using video is, is, it's almost an unforgivable sin if you're in sales today and you're not figuring out how to do that.

[00:17:56] You're, you're, you're, you're falling way behind the curve. If you're not doing it. Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. And loom is not a sponsor of ours may be someday, but, uh, there's other tools too. There's BombBomb yard loom. They're all great. Um, I personally like loom and been using it for a long time, but yeah, if you're, if you're a sales professional looking to really up your game, Two things that you can do that we've discussed so far is one use video.

[00:18:22] If you're not, if you're using video, maybe use video more often, or if you're using video only for your outreach, try using video throughout the whole sales process. Um, and if you're not quite comfortable for video, maybe voice DNS is a good place for you to start on LinkedIn, baby steps. That's all right, baby.

[00:18:38] Step into it. Yeah. So tell me, you know, how, you know, these things that you've talked about, like how do you teach others to start using this? And what do you do with folks that are maybe a little bit resistant, some of these things, um, you have to demonstrate value. So, um, you know, I'm running an experiment with my own team right now.

[00:18:55] I've got a couple of people using LinkedIn video, cause we're on a big prospecting kick right now, trying to develop some big opportunities. Um, the majority of my staff still is hesitant to use. The video that we're talking about, I'm trying to baby step us into it. I've got a couple of early adopters that are using it and their success will validate the reason, you know, salespeople generally are competitive.

[00:19:15] So even if you're hesitant, they're competitive and skeptical, right? So even if you're hesitant to be the leader into something, a new technology, a new tactic, once you see some, someone in your staff or you know, that you compete with. Succeeding with it, adoption becomes immediate. So I think that getting a couple of case studies in, uh, you know, getting a few people, all that my staff knows they'll see some success in it.

[00:19:39] It'll be more of a mass adoption. One of the things that I would highly suggest that every salesperson, again, listening, try to figure out is how to develop your own brand. And, you know, take responsibility, not to rely on the company's development of the company brand, but, but I mean, develop your brand as an individual sales professional, and the way I coach my salespeople and would recommend anybody do that is one of three ways.

[00:20:06] Number one, use LinkedIn right now. It's just the best, best platform we've got for business to business communication and brand building. Inside of that platform. It's really simple. Create content. One of these three ways. Number one, originate your own content, ideally via video, but it could be written content.

[00:20:24] It could be white papers. It could be whatever, you know, uh, a podcast, however you want originate content originate your own content. That's the number one preferred way. Number two, if you're not comfortable doing that. And a lot of people aren't grab articles and information that would be relevant to your target prospects.

[00:20:42] Provide those articles with commentary. Hey, I was doing some research on the value of switching your advertising from Brian TV to OTT using YouTube TV and sling and all of these new devices. And then you write an opinion about why you believe that's the thing to be doing right now. So you set yourself up as an industry expert.

[00:21:02] If you are not comfortable doing that and don't have the time just pull an article. Find two or three things that you can pull out as like cliff notes, bullet points and post those, you know, so, and, and at the end of the day, it's not about you sharing your company's content, right? Because honestly, your prospect doesn't care about your company until they care about your company.

[00:21:22] It's about sharing information that your prospects are going to find engaging and informative, and then they seek you out as a thought leader and a messenger inside of their space and all of a sudden doing business with you. Makes sense, right? Yeah. No, I love that. I mean, I love how. You shared all those different examples to meet people wherever they are with their comfort level.

[00:21:43] Right? Cause everybody's in a different place of what they're maybe willing to try or do too. I like, I love how you said, develop their brand, not create their brand, develop your brand. That a lot of people get really confused at this brand is some persona. That they need to create, and that's not true.

[00:22:01] Your brand is who you are. You just need to share it publicly on social. Get more comfortable, talk about the things that you care about. And you're going to start to connect with the people that have mutual alignment. Um, and you shared so many different examples of how you can start sharing content.

[00:22:17] Depending on where you are and what your comfort level is. And I'll add to that is consistency is the key. If you're using LinkedIn properly connecting with the people that are your ideal prospects and adding value on a regular basis, you're going to be top of mind when they need whatever it is that you are serving.

[00:22:36] Um, and, but being consistent, you know, you can't. Start posting content on LinkedIn for a couple of weeks and think that you're going to start getting tons of inbound leads. It's like going to the gym, you got to do it consistently and continue to do it. And then it starts to pay off over time. It's probably most relevant to the prospecting part of the sales process, right?

[00:22:56] Because you can't to your point, pop in and prospect heavy. I mean, you're making 50 dials a day, you know, trying to connect with everybody for three days and then you're off prospecting for the next two months. And it doesn't work like that. It's a, if you do a little, I don't have to, you don't have to do 50 calls to prospect.

[00:23:12] You could do three. Quality ones every day for, you know, however many working days, there are 340 working days, you know, that you're, that you're going to be available or probably less than that 300 work days, whatever it is, if you just do a little bit every day, but do it consistent consistently at the highest level of quality you can achieve, you're going to make progress.

[00:23:32] It's just going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I even schedule my LinkedIn activity in my calendar twice a day, because if it's not on my calendar, I won't do it. Um, so I think that's something that's really helpful and works for me. Um, being consistent and, and the thing is, is, yeah, it works well, creating your brand, being active on social, you know, um, Is is important in the prospecting process, but I would also add to that, that it's something that you can use once they're already in your funnel, or once you've already had that initial call or discovery or whatever your sales process looks like, because it's an easy way to show up differently and stay top of mind with those people that are in your funnel as way as well.

[00:24:15] And LinkedIn doesn't make that easy. Because of the algorithm. You're only going to see a certain percentage of content or they're going to serve you, the people that they think that you care about, or maybe the people that you engage with the most, I'm not a LinkedIn algorithm guru. However, you know, there's ways that you can kind of cheat the system or, or, or make it easier.

[00:24:33] And what I do is I add the people that I want to stay top of mind. There's people in the sales process, people on prospecting, I have their activity link. On a Google sheet and two or three times a week, I click on those links. I find stuff that I want to engage with, and it's not just a thumbs up or an awesome, thanks for sharing something thoughtful where you can add to whatever it is that they're sharing.

[00:24:55] That's it, that's it huge tip, but you know, you can be intentional about who not only you put your own content in front of, but who you show up in front of with thoughtful comments and, you know, contributing thoughts. I mean, it was just a, if you're not doing this as a sales person, it's, it's almost like a dereliction of duty.

[00:25:13] Like you're just not wanting to be successful or you're, you're not hearing the steps to success. Cause this is, uh, you know, this is all exactly the formula for being successful. Um, one of the other things I want to make sure that, um, that we touch on in the sales process, um, you know, I'm, I'm a big in to comparing the sales process and profession to, uh, sports and athletics.

[00:25:36] You know, whether it's amateur or professional, the process is the same, the thing that sports. Uh, athletes, anyone in the athletic world does is they practice and they practice seeking perfection. Meaning they're in this constant feedback loop where they practice, they evaluate how they practice. They look for things they did well and things they didn't do well.

[00:25:56] They make micro adjustments the next time they practice and they continue to iterate that, try and get as close to mastery as possible. In the sales process, you've got, I got to become a master or as close to a master, as you can become at every facet of sales, you know, developing a pro uh, ideal profile for a prospect, engaging with them, moving from engagement to discovery, to.

[00:26:19] Uh, you, your pitch and close to your service and recapture for resales or referrals. There's a whole universe of prospects that you can constantly practice getting better at it. Okay. Because you're never going to master it. No one in the whole, in the history of ever has mastered every step of the sales process.

[00:26:36] But your practice loop gets you closer and closer to your own level of mastery. And it's something that salespeople don't do often enough that if you just implemented a few easy to implement steps, like recording a pitch, you could go on zoom, zooms got free accounts or loom would be another way. Loons got a free account.

[00:26:54] Once a week or twice a week, you do your own pitch or you do your own, uh, approach video on loom and then you review it or you review it with a mentor or a manager, and you look for areas that you're not, you know, where you're not connecting. Maybe your words aren't wordsmith correctly, or they're not hard.

[00:27:12] They're not impactful enough. They don't have enough punch to them. If you get in that process by default, you're going to get a little better and a little better, a little better. And eventually you're going to be the master of your craft. You're going to be peaking at your level of talent and then your, your job, like an athlete is it's not enough to get there now you gotta stay there.

[00:27:30] And that's where that consistent since he comes back in, you know, one of my favorite sayings from a sales trainer that I had years and years ago was it was working so well. We quit doing it. And, you know, that's the challenge. If you want to, if you want to have not only mastery, but consistent mastery is don't do things that are working, get to a level of success and then stop doing those things that got you there.

[00:27:51] Like you got to keep going. It's a sales is a never ending process of, uh, you know, of consistent practice, but not just practice, trying to perfect your practice. And that's, um, I think that, that if, if I could give any salesperson, any level of knowledge, it would be. Practice will make or break your career or it will accelerate or decelerate your timeline to success.

[00:28:13] It's, it's kind of the missing component to success in my opinion.

[00:28:20] Yeah. Wow. So, so many great things there. One thing that I want to touch on that you said is feedback. Feedback. You talked about athletes that are looking for that feedback to improve feedback is so important as a sales professional. And I'm talking about not just going to your current customers and interviewing them and getting their feedback and asking them to do a case study and why they did business with that's great.

[00:28:44] Nothing wrong with that. That's great feedback. But even the business that you lost, the business that didn't say yes, the people that didn't want to book a meeting with you ask for their feedback. I feel that that feedback is more valuable than anything else. The feedback of the people that said no, that didn't sign up, that didn't go with your product or service.

[00:29:05] Those people can give you so much valuable information to improve your process. Yeah. And Colin, that's a, like, so, you know, human , if you approach someone posts, you know, post sales effort and they said, no, they've moved on. They've gone into different direction. If you approach that person with humility and say, Hey, Collin, you know, um, I know that you chose to go in a different direction.

[00:29:28] I'm, I'm pursuing becoming the very best sales professional that I could become. And one of the ways that I find I do that most, uh, you know, most. One of the ways that I think I do that best is to get feedback from people who did it buy from me. And I was just wondering if you could give me any kind of constructive feedback on what I might've done or, or said differently that would've maybe put me in a different space with you and, you know, and I think that most of the time, you know, so most humans are built to want to help other people generally.

[00:29:58] So when you come asking for help, You know, um, honestly, you know, thoughtfully, most people are inclined to help you out. That's that's, you know, just a human dynamic and, and what a cool, you know, no walls built between you and the person you're talking to. The deal's done. There's no, there's no risk here.

[00:30:16] There's no risk of reward on either side for the buyer at this point, it's just, Hey. I wonder if you'd help me get better, you know? Cause I I'm trying to be, uh, the best professional I could be. Could you give me some feedback on what I could have done better? You know, and most people who's not going to do that.

[00:30:30] I mean, what kind of, you know, what kind of is going to say no, I'm not going to tell you anything. There's there's some, but those are far and few between right? Jordy of people like helping people. So you're going to get more yeses than nos. It's going to help you become better. It's going to help you, you know, fine tune your messaging, your process, you know, whatever it is that they tell you.

[00:30:53] Um, if you're hearing the same thing over and over from the same people of like, well, I didn't like this, or this is why we didn't go with you. Then you, you, something you might need to pay attention to. And I think that this can be accomplished well through either, you know, hopping on the phone and a phone call or even a video, sending them a video or a voice DM.

[00:31:11] Yeah. Not just a message, not an email, something different asking for feedback, which is different in itself. Um, and you know, you can, you can even do this when the, when you feel that the deal, the deal is going cold, you know, they're kind of, they're kind of a. You know, ghosting you. They're not being as responsive.

[00:31:29] That's a good time to ask for feedback back to when maybe they haven't gone with somebody else. They just haven't gone with you yet because we've done it. And this ourselves in our process. And it's like, Hey, it's a really honest, Hey, you know what? I totally get it. Yeah. It seems like we may have dropped the ball, earning your trust, and we'd love to find out how we could have done better.

[00:31:48] And sometimes it's just clearing up something that they weren't clear on and it gets the deal to the next stage. You could ask feedback. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. You can ask for feedback right before you feel like you lost it, or even after you lost it and there's value. Yeah. In both ways, I've got a great tip for, uh, for that kind of feedback.

[00:32:06] I learned this, uh, I took the Sandler selling class, uh, was one of their, um, I signed up and did a year long kind of class with them years and years ago when I first got into sales. Cause I wasn't very good. I needed to learn how to do it. And there's this concept at Sandler called negative reverse selling and I promise.

[00:32:20] You and everybody that's listening to this podcast. This, if you, if you say it the right way, it works 99.9 at the time. And it's T it's kind of along the lines of what you were just saying. Hey, Collin. Um, I feel like I may have either missed something important and critical to our progress in the sales.

[00:32:37] The process that we've been going through with you, or I feel like maybe I've gotten to the point where you've lost interest or we're just not in consideration at this. I, I, I say all that to say, um, yeah, maybe we should shelve where we are right now and figure out at some point in the future, a time to revisit it.

[00:32:54] And, you know, just, uh, I want to let you, I want to give you the space to do that. If, if that would work for you. And however you wordsmith that what you're doing is you're taking it. You want to take it away from the prospect a little bit. And what I found is two things happen, the prospect, and this works in your relationships as well.

[00:33:11] Right? If you take it away, The prospect is going to do one of two things for sure. I'm going to say, you know what, Mike, I really appreciate you saying that. Um, after some internal conversations, we decided to go in a different direction. You've worked so hard. I really didn't want to let you down. I, you know, I hated I was trying to hold on to the last minute to break this news to you, but yeah, it's a no.

[00:33:28] I mean, they're going to tell you that, or as likely as that, they're going to say, you know, Mike, I appreciate you saying that it's not you it's us. What happened was internally, we, we lost our senior vice president of, uh, you know, of operations and we've had to reorg the whole company in the last three weeks to try and cover for him or her.

[00:33:44] Our priorities got shifted, actually. Why don't we schedule a meeting for, you know, it's like they get back in the process. So either way you got, have a productive outcome, you're either finding out. It's probably a no, they're just not wanting to tell you or you find out what's really happening on their side in a, in a pretty raw and open way.

[00:34:03] Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's great. Um, yeah, I mean the easiest way to make somebody want something is to, you know, to say, you're going to take it away from them and if they, and if they want it, they pull it back. Right. And if they didn't want it, what better time to find out that now, you know, Yeah. And you can even set the stage in the very beginning with that expectation.

[00:34:25] Like, Hey yeah. If at any point during the process, you decide we're not a good fit. You're not going to go with us and you have your reasons. Just do me the favor of letting me know. No problem, you know, and you can even set that expectation from the very beginning, because the biggest thing is people don't want to hurt your feelings.

[00:34:44] They don't want to tell, you know, they don't want any sort of conflict. They don't want to feel like they let you down. They don't want to feel like they wasted your time. But if you set that expectation from the beginning, it gives them an out at any point to stop wasting your time so that you can focus on the people that you really can help.

[00:35:01] That's a huge, yeah, huge. Ah, that's what you just said is huge. That's set the agenda, set the expectation and then, you know, you can remind them along the way. Hey, you know, just, if you do that, you've, you've done everything you can, you can do to control that situation. Yeah. Because the hardest part is a sales professional is people not being honest with you about where they are, of whether they're going to go with you or not.

[00:35:25] And most sales professionals would rather rather hear a no then have it, you know, Be dragged out for six or nine months. Not really knowing which way they're going to go, because we'd all rather focus on the people that we can really help and see the value in what we do. Yeah. And that, that was the hardest thing for me to learn as a young seller.

[00:35:44] Um, I was the assumptive yes. Person. So if you did it say no, I would assume that we were getting closer to a yes, because you didn't say no, you didn't say yes, but you didn't say no. Right, right. Um, and I, and I was hesitant to ask for clarity because I was afraid that it was going to be a no, as I got older and, and, you know, learn the sales profession.

[00:36:03] I learned that getting to know as quickly as you can is probably the best thing. Cause it saves everybody time. Like I don't want to invest. I've got finite time and energy resources. I don't want to invest. It was on dead ends. I want to invest. Those are real opportunities. And the only way to do that is to say, Hey, you know, let me know if point, like you said, this is going to be a no, let's just it's okay.

[00:36:23] I'm okay with that. I'm a big boy. I got other people I can help. Hundred percent. It's almost like the mind you've got to shift the mindset is to know is a win in itself because now, you know, now, you know, and you can move on and you can focus because your time and your energy on the people that are, you know, need your help that you can actually serve.

[00:36:42] So, Mike, this has been such a pleasure. I've really enjoyed talking with you before I let you go. Tell folks where they can find you and what sort of resource that you have for them. Yeah. So you can look me up on LinkedIn. Uh, Mike Morgan, just do a little search. It'd be easy to find there. And if you want to look me up online, hit the sales team, the sales champions,

[00:37:05] It'll redirect you to a community that I'm building. Um, you know, the, the intention of the sales champions Academy is to provide professional salespeople with inspiration, motivation, and resources that they need or could use to level up their game to get them. You know, become the best they could be. Um, I, I love sales.

[00:37:22] I love the, you know, the idea of pursuit of perfection and personal excellence. And in sales, that's a hard thing, man. It's a stressful career. It can be so rewarding and so stressful at the same time. But at the end of the day, You know, I think it's a, it's a career that I think everyone should pursue. And I think if you decide to get into it, you should learn to become the very best that you can be and, and learn how to sustain it through those consistencies.

[00:37:46] And all of the things that we've talked about. I really appreciate you. Uh, you kind of walking us through the process, cause this has been a fun interview, man. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, thanks so much, Mike. Appreciate it. Alright. Sales, hustlers. There's tons of value in there. We will drop the links that Mike mentioned in the show notes, and we will see you on the next episode.

[00:38:05] Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales, check us out. And if you feel that you are. Ready set up a time to talk with me and my co founder, Chris, I'm your host collum Mitchell.

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