Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
March 5, 2021

Episode #67 S1-EP67 Make The Most Of Your Marketing Investments with Garrio Harrison

Collin Mitchell welcomes Garrio Harrison in this episode of the Sales Hustle. Garrio shares a little bit about his story growing up in Jamaica and how he started sales and marketing. He shares valuable nuggets about how sales and marketing can work better together.

Garrio Harrison is a Partner at the Marketing agency Curious.

He focuses on helping business leaders at sales-focused organizations put the tools and systems in place so they can make the most of their marketing investments.

He is also a partner in the award-winning Sales coaching company Closer Media.

You can learn more about Garrio Harrison and connect with him on Linkedin at

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Episode 67 - Garrio Harrison

Collin Mitchell: [00:00:00] Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I've got a great guest, my good friend. Gharial Harrison. He is the partner at curious, and we are going to talk about some very important topics today. We're talking about how can sales and marketing better support each other to be allied.

[00:00:51] And he is the perfect person to talk about this topic, Mario, how you doing? Pretty 

[00:00:56] Garrio Harrison: [00:00:56] good, man. Thanks for having me looking forward to the 

[00:00:58] Collin Mitchell: [00:00:58] combo. Yeah. Unfortunately, we did this already once and I totally messed up and had the wrong mic and it sounded horrible. So here we are, take two. Um, and I think it's going to be even better than last time.

[00:01:12] Yeah, always, always 

[00:01:14] Garrio Harrison: [00:01:14] for I'm up for a conversation anytime with you, dude. 

[00:01:18] Collin Mitchell: [00:01:18] Uh, so all right, man, before we jump in here to this really important topics that we've prepared for sales hustlers today, um, just tell us a little bit about your story. Give us the short version and then we'll hop into the tactical stuff.

[00:01:31] Uh, 

[00:01:32] Garrio Harrison: [00:01:32] okay. So the, the, the, the short version is, um, Uh, spend the majority of my career in the marketing field. Um, and you know, the company that I was at before was responsible for marketing qualified leads and sales qualified leads, right? Like the, those, those two magical words. Um, and I ended up meeting, um, Mikolaj and Alison  right from, from COVID coffee and closers and realized that.

[00:02:00] Marketing becomes so much stronger when it's informed by sales. So, you know, with that insight built out a whole, um, process for bringing marketing and sales. You got that, which we'll we'll we'll we'll touch on. Um, But yeah, that, that's what led me to where I'm at today, which, you know, if someone asks who, who, who I am.

[00:02:21] I like to say I'm a, I'm a, I'm a sales focused marketer. 

[00:02:25] Collin Mitchell: [00:02:25] Mm. I love that. All right. So those who maybe don't know, just kind of give us the high level, like what's the difference between an MQL and SQL. Right. 

[00:02:35] Garrio Harrison: [00:02:35] Um, so marketing qualified leads. That's what, that's what MPO stands for. So that's everything that, that, that happens before something enters the pipeline.

[00:02:45] Right. Um, and SQL are leads that are accepted by sales. Um, You know that come from marketing and then sales qualifies and it says, yes, this is a lead that I'm going to pursue and move through our sales pipeline to close. 

[00:03:03] Collin Mitchell: [00:03:03] And what can happen when, when somebody in sales treats an MQL like an SQL. Ooh.

[00:03:15] Uh, I knew you were going to love that question. 

[00:03:18] Garrio Harrison: [00:03:18] Um, it, it really does. Um, There's kind of two main, main things. One, it, it tarnishes the reputation of the organization, right. It leaves a bad taste in the buyers and the buyer's mouth. Um, and it also ruins the opportunity for a sale. Right. So there really does have to be, um, an intentional.

[00:03:43] Approach to where people are at in the, in, in the, in the buyer's journey and, and treating them or with, you know, mutual respect at each stage. 

[00:03:55] Collin Mitchell: [00:03:55] All right. And now the reason I asked this question is because this happens all the time where w and, and, and, and I would venture to say, and, and maybe you could shed a little bit more light on this, that a lot of times when a seller is treating.

[00:04:08] Uh, marking marketing, qualified lead, like it's a sales qualified lead it's because marketing and sales just aren't quite aligned or they don't even know what actually happened to get that lead in the door or like what messaging maybe resonated with them. Correct. What's your, what, what, what are your thoughts about that and why is that a problem and how can we fix it?

[00:04:33] Garrio Harrison: [00:04:33] Yeah. So. Let me break it apart in, in, in, in, in two stages. So the, I think best practices are at the heart of, of, of, of all this. Right. So, um, you know, uh, a best practice doesn't become a best practice until it's it's working. Right. And is mass mass adopted by a whole bunch of people. So, you know, marketers.

[00:04:57] You know, we spend a lot of time really tweaking and honing, um, you know, optimizing the things that we're doing to bring someone into a sales conversation. Right. Good marketers. That's what we do. But when something becomes, you know, is working, we get excited and we share it with each other and then it's adopted across the board.

[00:05:19] So if you notice every single SAS company has the. Has a very similar process, right? You, the there's, there's an SDR. There is a white paper that is downloaded. There is a, there's a lead magnet. There is, um, uh, email follow-up sequence, so on and so forth, right? From a customer's perspective that worked when it was only one or two of those things happening right now, you have.

[00:05:50] So many more, um, happening at the same time. Right? So, so, so the experience is broken there. Um, on the sales side, um, you end up, uh, you know, doing similar things, right? And this is when sales, um, start to, to bleed into marketing function. You end up with, um, mass emails are mass messages on LinkedIn and that sort of thing.

[00:06:18] Does that make sense? 

[00:06:19] Collin Mitchell: [00:06:19] It does make sense. And I want to dig into this best practices piece that you mentioned, because I have, I have a, I have a good feeling. We're going to have a little bit of fun talking about that and elaborating on that, right. Because I think that best practices, you know, are kind of very broad and general, right.

[00:06:38] But sales and marketing messaging is so dynamic and unique to even if you're in a similar industry, what works for them may or. May not work for you. So, you know, kind of falling back on these really traditional marketing best practices, how can that set you up for failure or just really blow through cash?

[00:07:00] Garrio Harrison: [00:07:00] Right. 

[00:07:00] Collin Mitchell: [00:07:00] So,

[00:07:04] Garrio Harrison: [00:07:04] so when it comes to, you know, best practices, right, you end up, um, Figuring out, uh, let's take the, the email sequencing for example, right? Yeah. So the sales is on the front lines and they're hearing today's Noah's from there, from there, from, from potential buyers. Right. And that might change, right? Like they, you know, you may be.

[00:07:29] You know, really, really getting after non-profits or, you know, you're really in the, in the, in the healthcare industry or whatever it is. Right. Um, and because you're trying to, the best practice is email sequencing, right? So you want to try and get. Someone to download something and put them into some sort of a sequence.

[00:07:50] Now what ends up happening because you have these multiple industries and these multiple pain points. And so on, you end up trying to create a, uh, a message that will work across the board, um, so that you can have a larger total addressable market or a larger amount of people that can, can hear this message.

[00:08:09] And as a result, the message speaks to no one. Right. So, but if you, if you back out of it, um, you know, you're spending, you know, just, just think of it, think of a tech stack to make that happen. Right. You're paying for the technology to put the, to put the email sequence together. You're buying the email list of these, of these folks.

[00:08:31] You know, that you're, that you're trying to reach out to. You are. Putting together, you're paying someone to put together those, those sequences and tweak those sequences, maybe there's graphics and things that have to be put together. And then you're paying, you know, whether it's to, to reach the, that, that audience on social or, or Google or so on.

[00:08:50] That's a pretty expensive stock from, you know, uh, from a marketing perspective, right. And it's only going to continue to grow. So you think about that, like as a business owner, you have operating cashflow. And this one thing that is not speaking to anyone, you know, directly is continuing to grow. Right.

[00:09:13] And how you fix that is talk to sales like before it, before, or investing in all these crazy tech stacks and where are you going to meet these people and the best practices around how many touches and, and you know, which, which, you know, how many days between the, the, the call. The the first touch do you give the second touch?

[00:09:35] Um, and all that jazz, just ask the sales team. You, you you've had, you are getting close to quota. What is working to get you like that? Many conversations over the edge and eat that to inform. To both a Titan, your total adjustable market, something that you can actually speak to with a little bit more authenticity and a little bit more value.

[00:10:02] Um, and, uh, you can customize your message to them and not waste, you know, time, energy, or money. On parts of the tech stack that you may not need. 

[00:10:17] Collin Mitchell: [00:10:17] All right. So let's, let me just make sure I'm hearing this right. So like before investing a ton of money in this like broad messaging, that's, you know, supposed to apply to everybody, like marketing can be more, you know, cashflow efficient, if they're just really.

[00:10:35] Getting good feedback from sales. Right. And, and, and, and there's two parts to that. Like maybe sales is, Hey, we're sending these sequences and we're just getting a bunch of nos, but you can even go deeper. Like, have you asked those people why they said no, Why is it not resonate with them? Um, you know, getting even deeper feedback.

[00:10:56] So sales needs to hit quota and they need more leads from marketing, but sales needs to do a good job of giving that good real-time feedback to marketing. To help produce more leads or messaging that resonates with sales. Correct. And so what's the other side of it? Like what does marketing need to do to better support sales?

[00:11:19] You know, 

[00:11:21] Garrio Harrison: [00:11:21] this is, this is a. This is a, this is a topic that, that has near, near and dear to my heart. Right. Um, you know, because I spend a lot of time, um, really understanding, you know, what are the best sales people, um, want from their marketing partner? Right. Like what did they, um, what, what makes their life easier?

[00:11:48] Um, and a couple of, couple of things that, that, that, that come to mind are that it seems to be universal is, um, sales folks want to spend more time talking to customers and prospects and, and people that are, um, potential either to learn either to, um, to, to learn what's working to test new messaging. So on and so forth, right?

[00:12:12] Um, all with the goal of, of moving the needle, a needle for the business, right. Marketing should understand that, understand what that takes, had empathy for, you know, what is required, you know, being on the front lines, hearing all these nos and not burdened sales with a lot of unnecessary, unnecessary like activities, right.

[00:12:35] Um, you know, sales. Or marketers should sit in on sales calls, right. And say, you know, how, what, what do you want to do now? You know, sales, sales partner, um, what do you want to do now to move this, to move this deal forward? Is it updated materials? Is it, um, you know, would it be easier? To have like a, a followup sequence here versus on the front, the front end.

[00:13:03] Um, is it, is it helpful to have reminders right. Of, you know, because you're touching so many people, is it better to have like reminders about, you know, where. Where people are in the sales, in the sales process and help them put those things together as a true partner. 

[00:13:22] Collin Mitchell: [00:13:22] Right. Right. So, so marketing, uh, so, okay.

[00:13:25] So let's review this for a second. Um, for anybody who's really wanting to take some notes on this, because I think this is so important, right? So, uh, on the sales end, Sales needs to be reporting back to marketing. Like here's what we're hearing on the front lines. This is not working. We're getting a lot of nos here and here's why they're saying no marketing can then tweak the messaging to resonate with that addressable market.

[00:13:49] Maybe tighten up the market, you know, get more specific, like, Hey, we're getting a lot of yeses with these specific people and these people. We're just, you know, are going dark or we're not hearing anything at all. Right. And then you and then market, and then marketing needs to find out like, Hey, here's some bleeds that we brought in the door, you know, these ones are closing, but here's a bunch that haven't, or have just been stuck.

[00:14:11] What do you need in sale? How can we help you? From marketing, what do you need to get these deals to the next stage? What do you need case studies around specific industries? Do you need case studies around specific problems? Do you need certain sequences? Do you need certain workflows built out? Like, what do you need so that we can help move these deals, you know, to the next stage?

[00:14:32] Is that what I'm hearing? 

[00:14:33] Garrio Harrison: [00:14:33] One 100%. And the, the, the one thing that I'll, I'll, I'll double click on is sales needs to help marketing, you know, understand what these things are, but marketing needs to be intentional to make it as efficient and easy as possible for sales to give them that insight. Right. So it's not, it's not on sales to, you know, after every call, fill out a 20, a 20 question question, form, um, telling how the, how the deal went.

[00:15:03] Um, so that marketing can, can, you know, kind of think about it into aggregate, like. Walk over to the sales team and say, Hey, you know, you just did a bit, a bunch of calls. Is there anything that is resonating, um, that we should be aware of? You know, 15 minutes, 10, 15 minutes. I track that information. So sales can get back to what they do best.

[00:15:27] Um, and then you go. As a marketer. And this is what we do at curious is take our subject matter expertise around all things, marketing and turn that into actionable activities that actually help, you know, the next round of, of, of leads come through the door. 

[00:15:46] Collin Mitchell: [00:15:46] Um, and I'm just, you know, and let's like, let's, let's assume maybe, you know, For a smaller organization, right?

[00:15:54] That's more bootstrapped. Maybe, you know, no funding. Maybe they have a founder that's, you know, a seller at heart. Right. But knows little or nothing about marketing, how important it is to have somebody in marketing on the marketing team or have a marketing partner that really understands the sales side.

[00:16:16] Garrio Harrison: [00:16:16] Yeah, it, um, I'd say it's critical, right? Because at it, if you're a small company, um, you don't have a lot of, um, you don't have a lot of discretionary resources. Um, so you can't afford to make bad bets, right. Um, and you know, figuring out, you know, as a, as a founder, you know, you mentioned, um, you know, where, where the, where the business owner is the one selling as well.

[00:16:47] You're a subject matter expert in the value that you bring to your customers. You shouldn't be distracted with fine with becoming an expert in all things to bring those customers to the door. Uh, you should be an expert in providing value to your customers because there's only so many hours in the day, right?

[00:17:06] Having a, having a marketing partner that understands what you are trying to accomplish and the cashflow realities of your business, when coming up with solutions and ways you can, um, bring more people through the door. Um, it's one less thing for you to worry about as a business owner 

[00:17:25] Collin Mitchell: [00:17:25] and, and, and, and I'm, I'm, I'm just.

[00:17:27] You know, we talked a little bit before, um, and just kind of learn a little bit more about what you guys do at curious and, and you know, how unique it is to be a marketing partner that understands the sales side, because I mean, there can be a lot of waste in marketing for somebody who is not accustomed to getting feedback from sales or understand the sales role.

[00:17:48] Just in just trying to figure out the messaging. 

[00:17:51] Garrio Harrison: [00:17:51] Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Your messaging, because think about it. Like if you're going to invest in content marketing and blogging and video, and heck you have, you've taken out, uh, the ticket investment on. And you're going to do a Superbowl ad, right?

[00:18:08] Regardless of what you're doing with marketing, nobody should ever do a Superbowl ad,

[00:18:15] but you've spent all these, all these time and dollars and energy to figure out a message to reach your audience. And it's the wrong message. Think about that. Like there's hard costs associated with it. Every single one of those, one of those activities, right? Um, writing emails, sequences, blogging, you know, there's there's time and energy that that's being invested in creating those assets.

[00:18:43] And if they're not speaking to the people that are actually cutting you a check, that's a problem and it puts your business at risk. Hmm. And how do you find that information? You talk to the people who are actually closing the deals. 

[00:19:00] Collin Mitchell: [00:19:00] Or not closing the deals and find out why they're not closing.

[00:19:07] Um, yeah. And I mean, I think for like, especially like, you know, bootstrap or early startups, you know, um, It's it's so important to be, you know, efficient right. With, because I mean, you can spend a lot of money on figuring out the messaging and they just kind of throw your hands up and be like, man, this marketing stuff doesn't work.

[00:19:27] Garrio Harrison: [00:19:27] Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that, and that's that, and that's really unfortunate because it's, it's not, there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of things that. That happened and people that get impacted downstream when you don't get this stuff right on the front end. Right. Um, employees, um, you know, customers of the company, right.

[00:19:52] That could in, or just people that could benefit from the, the product and service. Right. Um, are not able to experience that. Or get the benefit because sales and marketing are disconnected on the front end and it caused the company to not be able to reach more people. 

[00:20:13] Collin Mitchell: [00:20:13] So, well, let's, let's just assume that maybe, uh, there's a listener out there.

[00:20:19] That's like, man, I wish that sales and marketing would work better together. Like what are some simple things that they can do to get more aligned? 

[00:20:28] Garrio Harrison: [00:20:28] Right. I think, um, So whenever I get this, this, this question, um, I always reference, um, Mick Labrador, you don't make a lie. Um, all right. So, you know, I'm, I'm marketing.

[00:20:44] Through and through and make allies sales through and through the one thing that we, we, we have and why, why our relationship is, you know, worked so well is we have mutual respect for each other and we are passionate about learning the other person's craft. Right. So I, I like, you know, because if I know.

[00:21:09] Why Nicola does the things that he does, right? As a sales person and a top performing sales person at that. And I understand how he thinks, how he's, how he views problems, how he navigates overcoming objections. And so on. I can be, you know, on my side as the sales or as the, you know, as someone in marketing really.

[00:21:32] You know, asking the question, how is what I'm planning on doing, gonna make his life easier. And the thing that, that, that we both have in common is, you know, for us and by extension all marketers and all salespeople, we should be aligned around the common objective of revenue, either cash through the door or efficiently spending marketing dollars.

[00:21:59] Right. Yeah. Either way, um, the business, the business is able to grow. 

[00:22:05] Collin Mitchell: [00:22:05] Yeah. Yeah. And so it, should there not be like a, a line in the sand at all between sales and marketing or is it not so. You know, I, is that line a little more gray than, than it, than it used to be. I think it's, 

[00:22:20] Garrio Harrison: [00:22:20] I think what it's worked back in the day, right.

[00:22:24] Um, I think it was fanatical prospecting. Th th th th the, these books that come out that changed the course of history. Right. Um, um, and I think, you know, uh, Now go prospecting was w was one of those books. I'm looking at my bookshelf here. Um, I think now we're entering this phase where, um, we really need to understand each other as, as kind of humans, right?

[00:22:51] Like, what is the buyer wants? Like every buyer is not the same. Uh, every buyer, every buyer experience within the company is not the same. So we got to really understand that. And as a result, And the same thing happens on the marketing side and sales side. So I think it's really understanding that it's fluid and therefore, um, stop thinking about it as this funnel that is, you know, marketing at the top of the funnel.

[00:23:19] Someone enters the pipeline. Now with sales responsibility, then a customers is at the bottom and revenue kinda kind of pops out at the end and start to think about it as more of a flywheel or an ecosystem where sales and marketing are blending together with specific roles. But those roles are fluid and therefore need to be kind of communicated together with the outcome of revenue.

[00:23:46] Collin Mitchell: [00:23:46] Yeah, no, I love that. And you know, it's, you're so right, because there is, you know, there is like, even, even if you have a prospect that's in the same industry with the same role in the same company, like the messaging, isn't always going to be. Isn't always going to resonate. Right? So like even we see it on the sales side is like, you know, for example, if we're reaching out via LinkedIn email or phone, my personal favorite, um, you know, even like sales talk tracks and playbooks are just.

[00:24:24] More dynamic than they've ever been. There's no like clear path. It's really just to have conversations with people and see where it goes and have the skillset to go deeper, where you need to go deeper or drive the conversation in the direction that most makes sense for them and not just. Force a particular talk track or playbook or strategy because there's no one size fits all really.

[00:24:48] I mean, we have some, some, some basic goals and things that we're trying to accomplish, but the conversations are just much more dynamic than, than before. And some of those older tactics just don't work Guinea more. 

[00:25:01] Garrio Harrison: [00:25:01] Right. Right. And you know, the, the, the trap that I see a lot of, of organizations fall into as.

[00:25:10] The it's this it's, this it's that cycle of best practices, like bringing, bringing it full circle. Right? So a best practice becomes the best practice because a lot of people are doing it right. And, you know, I'll use, you know, LinkedIn messaging for as, as an example, um, in the early days, you know, that was a, that was an untapped channel.

[00:25:33] That sales was getting a lot of value out of. And then marketers got ahold of it. And then we figured out we figured out how to scale it. Right. So now, um, that channel. Is is more saturated than ever, which means there are a lot of other companies that are offering automated services in order to do that.

[00:25:52] Right. Cause that that's how you scale it. But as a business owner, if you're just looking at marketing in a vacuum or looking at marketers that are, you know, kind of really dialed in on one specific thing, um, And then you're, you're you're, you know, you're price shopping. You're going to end up with a solution that the best perpetuates the cycle, right.

[00:26:16] Versus working with an organization that, um, In a really understands the kid. Why, why, why is this channel so effective, right. Or able to ask the sales team. Okay. Well, what channel is more effective for you over the phone? Okay. So we need to get you more phone calls. All right. How do we do that? Um, versus going, we have, yes, you can have a marketing strategy.

[00:26:42] In any color, as long as it's black. Right. You know what I mean? That all that old, uh, for, for that edge, but really, you know, being able to say sales what's working and let's do more of that. 

[00:26:56] Collin Mitchell: [00:26:56] Yeah. Yeah. And, and for all the people in sales, like you can become so much better at sales. If you. Learn a little bit from somebody in marketing.

[00:27:06] Um, and, and, and marketers can become better if they learn a little bit from the people in sales. Um, so it just makes a lot of sense to just like, Hey, how can we better support each other? How can we better work together to achieve this common goal? Which is revenue. Exactly. Yeah. All right. So. Gotcha.

[00:27:27] Thanks so much for coming on and talking about this topic. Uh, this was a lot of fun. Um, where can people find out more about you or if they're looking for somebody to help them really just bridge that gap between sales and marketing, um, give them all the good stuff and we'll include that in the show notes for them.

[00:27:43] Garrio Harrison: [00:27:43] Cool. Um, well you find me on LinkedIn. I'm just, gharial Harrison. I'll be the guy in the black t-shirt and the coffee cup. Um, but I also want to give a gift to your, um, to your guests, right? So if you go to discover, um, we have some, um, we, we, we call them executive briefings, but they're basically, um, quick wins that can be had.

[00:28:08] Um, you know, marketing activities that, uh, you know, uh, support sales efforts, right. Just really quick wins. Um, with 30 minutes we can walk through them. I'm more than happy to, to, to, to share that with your audience. 

[00:28:24] Collin Mitchell: [00:28:24] Oh, wow. All right. I wasn't expecting it. There you go. There's a gift for everybody. We will drop that in the show notes.

[00:28:30] Gharial thanks so much for coming on. If you listening to the podcast and you enjoy today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends and as always we're listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning in into this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional? Looking to take your sales career to the next level.

[00:28:50] If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales,, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.