Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Feb. 17, 2021

Episode #60 S1-EP60 Linking Inbound Business Development To Help Organizations Close More Deals with Brett Williams

Joining Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast is Brett Williams. Brett starts by sharing his sales story on how he started in sales. He goes into more details on inbound Business development in this episode.


Brett Williams is the Co-Founder and CEO of Leading Linked. They are B2B Business Development people, a close-knit team that is borderline obsessed with all things related to B2B Business Development. Their team works together to provide you with the results you need to grow your company’s bottom line. They work with your existing teams and processes to determine the missing links in your business development.  By identifying and filling these missing links with the right strategies and people, they act as a multiplier to your business development.

Brett Williams is also a Technology Relationship Manager at Wells Fargo.

You can learn more about Brett Williams on the following links below.

If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.

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Transcript

Episode 60 - Brett Williams

Collin Mitchell: [00:00:00] Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change-makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for to up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps.

[00:00:25] Sales professionals transform the relationship building process and win their dream clients. I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right, everybody. Welcome to a special live edition of sales, help hustle. I have got a fantastic guest for you today. I had the pleasure of going on his show recently. I've got Brett Williams, who is the host of linked to sales, Brett, how are you doing welcome to the show.

[00:00:54] I'm 

[00:00:54] Brett Williams: [00:00:54] awesome, man. Thanks for having me. Glad we could go live on this one. It's gonna be fun. Yeah. 

[00:00:59] Collin Mitchell: [00:00:59] This is a special treat for you. Sales hustlers. We are live on LinkedIn, so, uh, feel free to type your comments in if you're joining us live. Um, We had some technical difficulties and we just decided to go live with it.

[00:01:15] So I'm excited and pumped up for you guys to hear Brett, uh, I had the pleasure of going on your show recently and we had a ton of fun. So I know that this is going to be, um, equally as fun. So Brett, as we get started as always, we like to keep these as tactical as possible. Um, so our sales hustlers can feel like they learned something.

[00:01:33] Maybe it's just a kick in the ass that they need a reminder. Uh, but give them before we jump into that stuff, give them your sales story. 

[00:01:41] Brett Williams: [00:01:41] Yeah. So I actually started in sales, I think like a lot of people do out of necessity. Um, when I was 18 years old, um, I was in the, the cell phone industry of all industries, um, slinging back in the days before there were really any smarter.

[00:01:59] Um, so that was, uh, that was where he started and started to fall in love with sales, um, and ultimately even marketing through that. And. Um, spent several years in the sales world directly and then transitioned into more of like an engineering role because technology was just something I really loved. Um, that again, kind of fell on my fell in my lap.

[00:02:23] And, um, what ended up happening was I was one of those engineers. I was a network engineer and found out that. I was one of the few engineers that actually had people skills. So I would, uh, I would always end up being the one in the sales interactions. And so I ended up in as an engineering manager for quite some time and then decided that it was time to get back into the sales game.

[00:02:49] Cause I just, I enjoy the people. More than anything else. And, um, so I decided to get back into the sales and marketing game, and that's where I'm at today. I'm the CEO of leading link. That's what this, uh, background is behind me. That's our, uh, our company. And we focus really on helping B2B companies do business development.

[00:03:08] And then we recently I say recently, it's been almost five months now launched, um, our. Live show as well, leading to sales and we go live on LinkedIn and then are on all the various podcast platforms. And that's kinda my story in a really quick nutshell. 

[00:03:25] Collin Mitchell: [00:03:25] All right. So let's talk about a little bit. How do you think that your engineering background helped you as a seller?

[00:03:33] Brett Williams: [00:03:33] I think the, the thing with my engineering background is it helped me look at everything as a process and as a flow, but also maintain my agility. So it was like balancing that between, you know, most sellers or at least whenever I was in sales early on. I would often just kind of go off of it by the seat of my pants.

[00:03:54] Like I was not like the, a polished salesperson. I was the person who could just kind of jive and, and sh and shrug as I needed to. And getting into engineering really helped me start to see the process of sales and how it really is a science, just as much of it as an art. And so having that piece to balance me out has made a huge difference.

[00:04:18] Collin Mitchell: [00:04:18] So let's, let's dig into that a little bit. Tell me about the science of sales versus the art of sales. 

[00:04:25] Brett Williams: [00:04:25] So when I look at the science of sales, I look at the science of sales as being able to look at the process almost from a macro point of view, especially like a management or a leadership point of view and see where the cramps in the hourglass are.

[00:04:40] Um, you know, if we've got a serious. Drop off in the sales process between a, for instance, a discovery call and an a closing meeting or a proposal meeting. Then I know that there's a challenge somewhere with that discovery call or that discovery meeting. And I can go deeper into that say, okay, well what's, what are the processes?

[00:05:00] What are we saying? What are our normal things that we're doing? But then when we. Pivot from that. And we start to look at the art to me, the art is having that ability to really just, again, flow through the conversation. And, you know, when you're one-to-one with another human being, the key there is for me to turn off my science brain and realize, okay, hold on.

[00:05:25] This is another human being. And the, the benefit here is that connection in that relationship. And that's where the art of sales comes in, in my opinion. 

[00:05:33] Collin Mitchell: [00:05:33] And. W, if you had to pick they're both so important, but what, what do you think, is there one that you think is more important than the other. If you had to pick, I'm going to force you to pick one and tell me why.

[00:05:51] Brett Williams: [00:05:51] So I'm going to say that depends on where you're at. Um, and, and when I say where you're at in an organization, so if you're in a leadership position, um, I think the science of sales is extremely important because you've got to be able to look at that process and break it down and fix what's broken.

[00:06:07] Whereas, if you're on a, if you're more of an individual contributor or that you're, that the person who's in the trenches day in, day out selling, then that's where the art comes in, where that that's where that person to person relationship building really makes a difference. And like you said, they're both really important and that's a difficult thing.

[00:06:24] I think it's like, When you're a leader, you need to be at like 55% science, 45% are earned and then flip that when you're 

[00:06:32] Collin Mitchell: [00:06:32] in sales. All right. I, I like, I liked that answer. Um, now I'll push back a little bit on it because there's also, there's, there's a lot of people that are talking about, you know, leaders get so stuck in just like activity code, activity, activity, quote, activity, quota, and like it's the end result that really matters.

[00:06:50] And that path looks different for different people. Agree or disagree. 

[00:06:54] Brett Williams: [00:06:54] I totally agree. And that's, I think that as a leader, what it really, the reason I like that science side for the leader is because it allows you to lead your people and help them develop their skills. It's not about just what, some sort of KPI that you've thrown out there.

[00:07:11] It's not just about how many meetings it's about what the result is because at the end of the day, when we're in that sales process, Our goal to me is twofold first and foremost, to do enough of it, that we are generating consistent and reliable new revenue for our businesses or companies. And secondly, when we're in that sales process and it just completely left my brain for a minute, I'm going to love it when that happens.

[00:07:38] No. So. Doing enough of it. And then the second piece of it is that we are all growing and developing and able to continue to hone our craft and help our customers at the highest level. So if I talk long enough that it'll catch up to me. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's that again, identifying the value that whether or not we can or should add, continue to add value to that customer or that prospect, um, to identify whether or not it's a good fit.

[00:08:03] And then the other piece being that we're continuing to add revenue to our company. 

[00:08:08] Collin Mitchell: [00:08:08] That that's a really important piece sales hustlers, because I think it's so common that that sellers want to make, they make the assumption that like everybody, like everybody is a good fit. Everybody should work with us.

[00:08:20] Like if we're having a conversation, like there's no reason why we shouldn't do business together. Why is that? Why is that bad, 

[00:08:28] Brett Williams: [00:08:28] but, you know, so we often help companies with on the marketing side. And one of the things that I like to often say is if your messaging, if your goal of your messaging is to appeal to everybody, you're appealing to nobody.

[00:08:40] And if you're trying to cast your net so broadly, then you have to be so vague and so general, and the answers that you give and the information that you're sharing, and it's just, you're not going to connect. And so. When you begin to develop, okay. Number one, I know who, who the right people are for the value that my company or my, or I bring.

[00:09:07] And when you begin to develop that and understand that. Then you're able to position yourself as a true, and I hate saying this because it became so cliche, like early two thousands, but you can really position yourself as a trusted advisor rather than just a sales person, because I've had those conversations where I've been on the Ben on a call or in a meeting with somebody and been like, this is just, we're not going to be a good fit for each other, but let me get you with somebody who I think can help you meet your goals.

[00:09:35] And that's, that's instantly that's when, when you. Cross that chasm immediately from this is somebody trying to sell me so that they're going to hit a quota or get their commission versus, okay. This is somebody who actually cares about me and my business. Hm. 

[00:09:50] Collin Mitchell: [00:09:50] I like to say it's the difference between a sales person and a sales professional?

[00:09:54] Yes, 

[00:09:55] Brett Williams: [00:09:55] that's awesome. That's that's a good one. I'm going to have to remember that one. I may have to, to that one 

[00:09:59] Collin Mitchell: [00:09:59] later I did. I did not come up with it. So go ahead and steal it. I don't know where I stole it, but I did and somebody somewhere deserves some credit. Um, and I think I hear, I hear my good friend, Larry Levine.

[00:10:14] Talk about, you know, the difference between, you know, A seller or a sales professional. So maybe I picked it up there. Um, but you know, and, and here's the thing I love that you said that cause you know, sales house was, this is, this is so important, right? Like your, the goal is to have conversations and identify one, do they have a problem that you can solve and are you the right fit to solve it?

[00:10:35] And that's not everybody. And when you start forcing. You know, start persuading people, you know, to hit your activity quota, to get them into your pipeline, whatever the reason that's when you have all these deals in there, you're just kinda like, you know, I don't know how many are going to actually close.

[00:10:51] Um, but when you have good, consistent, like, Hey, you know, I did a solid discovery. They have a problem that they value solving, um, and we're the right fit to solve it. And I love that. You said sometimes you aren't. And you can be confident enough in, in, in, in what you do and really care enough about the person on the other side of that relationship to say, I see, you know, that these are your problems and I'm not necessarily the best person to solve it, but here's some resources, here's some people I'm happy to make some intros.

[00:11:20] Um, and, and that, because it's your reputation and your reputation 

[00:11:25] Brett Williams: [00:11:25] matters. It's so true. And that's, I mentioned this when we were alive and, but, you know, I, I really hold to that, to the, the Jeffrey Gitomer saying of, I, I don't try to sell people, things. I try to create. I create an environment where they want to buy and that's it.

[00:11:44] If that's what you're doing. Um, I mean, I've had, I've literally been on, and this is not an, a test, a Testament to me, it's a Testament to the people that I've learned from. I've been on sales conversations when, at the end of it, I have told them, Hey, this is not a good fit. And they have said, I really wish you had something that I could buy from you.

[00:12:02] Um, because to me it was the power and the importance of that relationship. And knowing that at the end of the day, if I am willing to give in order to build enough relationships, I'll get mine. Like, it's just, it's a, it's a natural product of doing what should be done rather than trying to pull it out of people and try to force it out.

[00:12:27] Yeah. 

[00:12:27] Collin Mitchell: [00:12:27] Yeah. I like to call it karma. 

[00:12:30] Brett Williams: [00:12:30] Yeah, exactly. Karma. So unseed whatever you want to call it. I mean, it doesn't matter what your term, it, it all comes back. 

[00:12:38] Collin Mitchell: [00:12:38] Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and it's, it's funny. Cause when you actually do right by people and do the right thing, good things happen. And you know, that might be hard to believe.

[00:12:47] And if that's hard to believe, then maybe try that and you'll see what happens. Right. 

[00:12:52] Brett Williams: [00:12:52] You give it a run. It's 

[00:12:53] Collin Mitchell: [00:12:53] worked for me so far. Exactly. Okay. Now, so, um, I want to talk about, okay, so creating this, you brought this up when we talked and you brought it up again. So what is creating an environment where people want to buy look like, like give us some examples of that.

[00:13:08] Brett Williams: [00:13:08] Yeah. Well, so first I'll, I'll go with Jeffrey Gitomer is trademarked saying, and he's literally trademark this, so I'll send him a quarter. Whenever we're done is that people, people hate to be sold, but people love to buy. And so that's the truth is if we're facing a challenge, whether it's personally, professionally or our company, is we love to find a solution to that challenge.

[00:13:29] And quite frankly, for me, I almost can't write the proverbial check fast enough. If it's something that I know that's going to help me solve my problems. So I think a lot of it boils down to really investing in that conversation. And I love, um, Chris boss's technique and we've talked about him, but Chris Voss of you're there to my game.

[00:13:53] I play a game sometimes when I'm in sales conversations of how much can I get this other person to talk? And the more I get them to tell me how my solution is going to help them specifically. Then I don't have to sell it. I just have to maybe give them just a little bit of a show and tell more or less, or a demo of, let me show you what this can do or how this fits in with what you've shared with me.

[00:14:19] Um, and then it's not me trying to impress upon them or sell them the feature or sell them the benefit. It's all about. They have really, they've created the atmosphere too, that they now want to buy, and I'm just showing them that solution. 

[00:14:33] Collin Mitchell: [00:14:33] Yeah. And, and, and listen to folks, the, the, the, the bad news is, is this is not easy.

[00:14:42] It's not, it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of work because there's no script for this. Like every COVID when you really. Actually like 110%, like actually give a shit about the person on the other side of the phone or zoom or video, or however you conduct your sales calls are less, there's less and less, you know, in-person sales being done these days, but whatever that looks like for you, when you actually genuinely care enough, right.

[00:15:09] To be curious enough to ask questions, to find out what matters to them, to find out if they have a problem. And even sometimes if they have a problem, do they even care to solve the problem? Like what's the impact if they don't solve the problem, you know, are they going to lean more towards just sticking with whatever they have today?

[00:15:24] Cause that's what they know. And. They don't value the problem being solved. Um, you know, there's, there's no real script for that. Like, you have a general sense of what you need to accomplish in a, in a sales relationship or in a sales call. Um, but you know, asking those types of questions, leads to different questions in that path.

[00:15:45] There's no straight path for that. So talk to me a little bit about like some things that you do. To create that environment for people to buy and like, That's worked really well for you. Like what are some kind of go-to things or strategies or things you do to kind of create that sort of environment and those relationships?

[00:16:07] Brett Williams: [00:16:07] So I think the first thing, um, is I do focus a lot on Chris Voss techniques. Um, never split the difference if you've not read the book, you're, you're killing yourself in sales, get out from 

[00:16:19] Collin Mitchell: [00:16:19] under a rock. 

[00:16:20] Brett Williams: [00:16:20] Yeah, exactly. Figuring out what country you're in and read it. Um, and. So when I'm, you know, when I'm in those conversations, like I said, one of the, one of my tactics is, okay, let's see how much I can sit here and shut up.

[00:16:34] Um, and you know, there are people that throw out different percentages. You should be talking X percentage of the time. Um, but if they ask if, uh, if a prospect asks me a question in the right way, my goal is to make sure that. I am answering that in the right way. And, but as quickly as possible, getting them talking again, because the more I talk in a sales conversation, the more likely I am to lose the sale.

[00:17:02] And that's, I was reading a different book the other day. I can't remember what the name of the book was, but they were talking about, there is a direct correlation and I'll use your, your terms. Here are the terms that you mentioned. There's a direct correlation between a sales persons. Percentage of talking in sales meetings and I sales professionals, percentage of talking and a sales professionals is consistently and significantly lower.

[00:17:29] And so my, again, I approach it with those techniques, the techniques that Chris Voss teaches, things like mirroring and labeling and things like that. And then above and beyond that, I approach it with a genuine curiosity. You know, um, I'm going to whip out this old quote that I use so much. It's ridiculous that you can't add value to people until you start until you first value people.

[00:17:55] And so when I go in. I have the moment, no matter how busy my day is, I make sure that I plan just a couple of minutes before every sales conversation to take a breath and remind myself that the person I'm getting on the phone with is not getting on the phone because they want to buy what I do or what I offer they're getting on the phone because they have a genuine problem or challenge with themselves or their business that they want to solve.

[00:18:23] And my responsibility in that conversation is not to try to tell them how great I am, my product, or my products are my services are my responsibility is to discover the truth of that problem and then discover whether or not I'm the fit to help them with that. Because what I found is if I'll take the time and take that mindset of discovering the truth of what their challenge or problem that they're trying to overcome is.

[00:18:49] Even if I'm not the right fit, I most likely know somebody who is, but I've had those situations where I've not gone in with the, okay, let me figure out what the true challenge is here. And I'll think, okay, well, I know exactly who can fix this and it's the completely, the wrong person. And then frankly, I've hurt my credibility because I didn't actually find out, take the time to find out what the real challenges were.

[00:19:11] Collin Mitchell: [00:19:11] And, and, and that looks like asking a lot of questions. And I like two things you said. Being being curious enough that right. And, and, and, and actually believing that that person matters and their problems matter. And you can't fake that. No, you can't. And so can I, you know, I, I was just really taking in everything you were saying there, so I don't want to mess it up.

[00:19:37] Can you say that one more time for me and for our listeners of, of, um, You said you, you, uh, what's that phrase you said just, uh, I'm going to mess it up. I 

[00:19:48] Brett Williams: [00:19:48] want you to say it again, so, okay. The John Maxwell one. 

[00:19:51] Collin Mitchell: [00:19:51] Uh, 

[00:19:52] Brett Williams: [00:19:52] I think so. Yeah. Yeah. So you can't add value to people until you first value people, right?

[00:19:59] Collin Mitchell: [00:19:59] You can't add value to I'm stealing that for sure. If I can remember it, you can't add value to people until you first value people. So what, like. Like, what does that mean? Right. Like you can't pretend like you care about people. Like you actually got to care about people and you can't really care about people unless until you really care about yourself and invest in yourself and value yourself too.

[00:20:22] So it kind of even goes back even a little further. Like there's some personal work that's gotta be done in order for you to be better in your professional role. 

[00:20:30] Brett Williams: [00:20:30] It's so true. And that's, and I'll plug this real quick because this is what that came from. It's John Maxwell's book, everyone communicates few connect.

[00:20:37] That's where that phrase came from. There was nothing else I got out of that book that made it worth the book. And I mean, I think that's, it's so true because if you're not confident in your ability to carry that conversation and, and it's not, that's the thing is it's, it is not about carrying the conversation.

[00:20:56] And I shouldn't have probably even said that it's about. Genuinely engaging and connecting with that person or people and realizing, and there's a balance to it. You know, you can't be, Hey, I'm coming in here to be your best friend in the world. Especially if you're dealing with a large B2B, cause they're like, I don't need another friend.

[00:21:14] I need a solution to this problem, but there is a balance to it. But if you're going in and you just realize you have that true attitude of I'm going to add value to these people, even if it's not with my product or service, That's when you, when you're gonna make the difference and, and growing yourself in the process, you know, for me, reading and listening to podcasts, just like sales hustle and, and so many others and just pouring that good stuff into me.

[00:21:45] It's, that's the difference maker, at least to me. And I tell people there's, there's one reason that I, I work as hard to grow myself, my skills and my mindset, as hard as I do. Um, and it's so I can give them away because the worst thing that we can become is what I call knowledge constipated. And so if I'm, if I'm working to build myself up so that I can give it away, you know, it's the difference between the Mississippi river and the dead sea, you know, there's life all around the Mississippi river, but the dead sea, everything is dead because the dead sea just holds and captures everything that it gets.

[00:22:25] And so when I'm developing those skills, it's so I can give them away so I can teach them so I can help one more prospect, see the difference that can happen in their business, whether it's from working for me or work or working with me or working with somebody 

[00:22:37] Collin Mitchell: [00:22:37] else. All right. So sales, hustlers. I hope you didn't miss that.

[00:22:41] You better not have knowledge constipation. 

[00:22:46] Brett Williams: [00:22:46] That's going to be my quote for the, for the entire podcast. I can 

[00:22:49] Collin Mitchell: [00:22:49] see. Yeah. Yeah. I see that as a potential title of a book. 

[00:22:55] Brett Williams: [00:22:55] That's goal. 

[00:22:56] Collin Mitchell: [00:22:56] I'll have to remember that one. Yeah, man. All right. So much good stuff here. So. All right. So, you know, and the thing is, is this a difference between, like we talked a lot about like what these sort of conversations look like, right.

[00:23:11] Asking, you know, talking less, being curious, actually caring enough to, to, to be curious, um, and you know, realizing that these people matter and, and trying to add value and not being so. Stuck on like trying to get them to the next yes. Or trying to get them to the next stage of your sales cycle or trying to get them to the demo or trying to get them in the pipeline or trying to get them to the proposal.

[00:23:40] Like just the goal is to just build more relationships with the right people and if you can help them. Great. And if you can't great. But ultimately you better make sure that it was a good experience, whatever that relationship looked like, however short or term it is, or there isn't. 

[00:24:01] Brett Williams: [00:24:01] Yeah. And that's, you know, one of the things that we work with a lot on, um, when we're helping companies with marketing on that side is to help the company realize.

[00:24:12] And, and oftentimes, you know, and I'll, I'll be the first to admit, marketers are really guilty of this, of, Hey, this is a marketing qualified lead. This is MQL. You need to reach out to them. You need to reach out to them. One of the things that we work on helping bridge that gap is that there is training and understanding from the sales team of where this lead came from.

[00:24:30] The temperature of that Wade and all getting all the information that could potentially come. From that process so that when a sales person's going in, they're going in with the right mindset. You know, if somebody downloads a white paper, they're not ready to buy whatever you've got, I would almost guarantee it.

[00:24:49] But if you know, it's different, if somebody goes to your website and fills out a contact us form, And so to me, it's being aware, you know, it's really being aware of where did this person come in at? And then where are we at in the process in their mind? Because it's all about perception on their end.

[00:25:08] It's about the perceived value that you're bringing. And what is, where are they in that process? Have they just started thinking about it? Did they just realize whenever you were talking to them, that they had the problem. Or D as soon as they came in, did they know this is the problem? This is what I think your solution is going to fix.

[00:25:24] And then it's a different conversation. 

[00:25:26] Collin Mitchell: [00:25:26] I love that you brought this up because this is, this is a topic that I actually enjoy talking about is how sellers can really struggle with how they treat like inbound leads versus outbound leads or where that lead came from. And, and I think it's very common. Of let's say for the non sales professional, or maybe the less educated person in sales or somebody that just, maybe hasn't been taught that there's a better way if we're giving them the benefit of the doubt here that just because somebody downloaded a white paper does not mean that they're ready to buy does not mean that like you just go straight to pitching, like you still.

[00:26:05] There's still a lot of work to do. You still need surprise. You still need to conduct a discovery. You still need to have a conversation with them to find out like, Hey, do the, did they just find it because did it just look cool in the ad? And they clicked and they're not even really interested in market or is this like really resonate with them?

[00:26:24] You know, what stood out to them? Why did they give us our information? Why are they hopping on the call? What problem? Like there's so many steps that get skipped on inbound leads because of people making the assumption like, well, It's an inbound lead, like they're ready to buy, you know? 

[00:26:37] Brett Williams: [00:26:37] Yeah. And it's so true because it's, and that's the power of data and I'm not talking about like, you know, this person's this or their demographics or things like that, but that's really the power to me from the, when, when you're talking about that transition from the, in on the inbound leads.

[00:26:53] That's the power of the data, because if I know for instance, that this person came from, and I'm just going to make something up here from a Google ad and the keywords that they searched was how can I solve X problem? Oh, there's a high degree of intent there. And I can probably pace just a little bit faster.

[00:27:12] I can probably move things forward at a little bit quicker pace. But if this came because they randomly saw an ad on their Facebook or on their LinkedIn, and they were like, Oh, well that looks like something I can, might be able to use next time. I'm thinking about that. And you just start harassing them.

[00:27:29] What their Google search is going to end up being is alternative to enter your company name. And so that's, you know, that's the thing is it's making sure that you're clear on how they came in from the marketing side and that's collaboration with marketing, but then taking that data and then going into the discovery meeting.

[00:27:47] And here's one of the things that gets me and I hope there are some sales leaders here. They're listening, stop telling people what to ask during the discovery session. Other than maybe the first couple of warmup questions to get somebody to talk, how to light 

[00:28:02] Collin Mitchell: [00:28:02] have a loose light playbook. Yes. Because 

[00:28:05] Brett Williams: [00:28:05] what I, what I've seen, I've seen, I've had it done to me of we're in this discovery conversation and I'm kind of checking things out.

[00:28:12] I'm not even sure that this is a problem I want to address right now, but they've got this set list of questions and their mindset is I want to hear what this person says. And then I want to ask my next question. Yeah. And you're losing business like crazy because of that, because you're not training your people to think.

[00:28:33] Collin Mitchell: [00:28:33] And, and, and there's, there's a cup. There's, there's a lot of things wrong with this, but let's, let's, let's dig in on a couple. All right. So when you, when you have this scripted discovery, right, let's call it a scripted discovery. You're not empowering your people. Enough to be curious enough to ask the better questions that will lead to a potential sale maybe, or, or we'll help you identify, Hey, they don't really have a problem.

[00:29:03] We're not best suited to help them. And we just saved ourselves a ton of time in the endless loop of I'm just following up, right? Yeah. 

[00:29:10] Brett Williams: [00:29:10] Well, here's the flip side of that. So there's, there's two things that I'll, I'll point out about that the first one is if you find that now is not the right time. That's when that relationship is the most important, because in my opinion, the vast majority of sales that are lost are lost because of, because they're trying to convert something that's not ready and they're not willing to put the work in to maintain that relationship over the next six months, quarter, year, fiscal year, whatever the case may be.

[00:29:42] Of having that balance of saying, Hey, you know what, listen, I get, you're probably not ready to do anything right on this right now. So how about I just stay in touch if I find anything that I think might be helpful to you with what the stuff that you are focused on, I'll shoot it your way. And then whenever it's time, you know, maybe I'll follow up in six months and say, and see if things you have changed and just being willing to take that second and make that shift.

[00:30:05] But then the second piece of this, and this is the other thing, you know, we talked about asking a lot of writing, a lot of right questions. But it's about learning, in my opinion, this true sales professional learns how to even ask fewer questions and get more, more data, more 

[00:30:20] Collin Mitchell: [00:30:20] information, right? Yeah. The right questions, more broad questions.

[00:30:23] Right? So like here's an example, right? Th the more typical, you know, you're an inbound lead, your outbound lead, whatever. Let's say you hop on a discovery and you have in, and I've had this just like to yourself. I've had it done to me many times. Right. So I've been on that other end where I'm like, ah, it feels really.

[00:30:38] Gross right. Where you feel as a, as a buyer or prospect, it feels, uh, you feel like you're treating, being treated very transactionally. Yes. Right. Um, and it looks like, Oh, you know, How many employees do you have? Are you the person that decides on that? Is there anybody else that needs approval? What's your timeline on this?

[00:30:58] Like, that's the scripted discovery, right? And you're like, Oh, just, you know, click. 

[00:31:04] Brett Williams: [00:31:04] Exactly. And if they tell me they can do a 15 minute discovery call, I'm not taking the call. Hmm. Hey, let's hop on a quick 15 minute discovery call. If the wording, most people don't say discovery call, but I know what they mean.

[00:31:17] If the wording tells me this is supposed to be a 15 minute discovery call, and then if that makes sense, we'll go to a demo immediately. I'm like, Nope, I can do of that 15 minute discovery on your website. I don't need to have a conversation with you because you're not going to, there's no way you're getting what you need from me to make an actual prescriptive.

[00:31:36] Recommendation in 15 

[00:31:37] Collin Mitchell: [00:31:37] minutes. Yeah. And it does depend on the product or the service a little bit and I'm not, and I'm not, I'm not opposed to a 15 minute discovery if it's, if it's, uh, if it's, uh, Sort of a commodity, you know, sort of product where it is a bit of a, more of a transactional sale just generally because of the nature of what it is.

[00:31:58] Um, but if you're selling some, you know, professional service or high ticket service, or, you know, very niche, you know, enterprise software, like yeah. 15 minute discovery makes no sense. Um, and so. So, so that's what a scripted discovery, right? But like what, what line of question is a, is a, is a, non-scripted a more coming from a place of like, Hey, I really actually give a shit about like this bread, half a problem that I can solve.

[00:32:24] Brett Williams: [00:32:24] I think it's all about context. Um, you know, I think it's it's depending on what the interaction has been leading up. To the discovery. Um, I know that sometimes that we have salespeople right now, and this is something that we're, we work very hard at leading link to make sure it doesn't happen for us at least that it's not a, Hey, the first interaction you're having with the client as a discovery meeting.

[00:32:46] Um, but a lot of it is about context. You know, how did this conversation start? Okay. That's an inbound, you're still probably not going to have that very first interaction be a discovery meeting, but I mean, it could be something as simple as starting off with. Tell me why you're taking time out of your day to meet with me today.

[00:33:05] I like all of this, especially in the B2B world. I promise you if they're a corporate employee, they're not taking time because they didn't have anything else. 

[00:33:12] Collin Mitchell: [00:33:12] Yeah. I, I like this. I like this one, which is kind of similar. What, what actually piqued your interest to, to put this on your calendar? Yes. 

[00:33:21] Brett Williams: [00:33:21] And then just sit 

[00:33:21] Collin Mitchell: [00:33:21] back and they might, a lot of times they might talk for 15 minutes.

[00:33:26] It's like, Oh, this is going on. And this really sucks. And this happened and this, and we're trying to solve this and we've got this and you're just like, Hmm. Hmm, hit mute and just type away or use some sort of tool that transcribes and puts it into your CRM. Whatever. I still, I use the transcription tools, but, uh, but I also like typing my own stuff.

[00:33:46] Um, and, and so, um, yeah, and so asking those sort of quick, like there's not a script for that. And also here's a big thing. Um, and we're probably gonna have to wrap it up soon, unfortunately, but, um, here's, here's one thing. Is don't ask questions that you could have found out on your own by doing a little bit of research or homework or things like that.

[00:34:13] Like, you know, uh, tell me a little bit about what your company does or, you know, like don't ask, and this is the analogy that I like to give folks, right? If you're, if you've ever led a team or if you've ever interviewed people or hired or any capacity. There's the candidates that show up that you can know, did their research, they know exactly what you do.

[00:34:32] They've researched your industry. They've researched your competitors. They know about anything on your website, your social media, like those people stand out. Right. So do the research in advance, right? Drop some things in the beginning. So it shows, and don't ask questions that you should already know the answer to.

[00:34:53] Brett Williams: [00:34:53] Exactly. Totally agree. And especially as free as resource research is now, I mean, it's, you're not having to go, you know, go to the library and pull books out or anything anymore, you know, it's a Google 

[00:35:05] Collin Mitchell: [00:35:05] search. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, don't get too creepy with it though, where you're like, yeah, I know that you guys are using HubSpot forms and spending, you know, 5,000 on Google ads and you know, like you can, you can get a lot of information these days, so don't get like creepy with it where you're like, I, I don't even, I don't even know if I want to work with these guys.

[00:35:22] They know way too much about 

[00:35:24] Brett Williams: [00:35:24] us. I saw where you took your kids to the Lake this past weekend. Yeah. 

[00:35:28] Collin Mitchell: [00:35:28] Do not pass. Go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, all right, man. Let's let's any closing thoughts? Um, anything else you want the sales hustlers to know, or just, you want to hit home on something we've already discussed and then tell them where they can find your show, learn more about you and all 

[00:35:47] Brett Williams: [00:35:47] that good stuff.

[00:35:48] I mean, I think the long and short to me of the entire sales process really hinges on your willingness to get creative with your ability to give value, because if you're creative with your ability to give value, Then you'll find the entire rest of the process is going to flow. Um, because if you're consistently giving value, whether you're building your individual seller brand or you're a company that's building it, that's where the difference is going to be made.

[00:36:16] Um, and yeah, you can, I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn. We do go live every Monday and Thursday. Um, with leading to sales, we interview leadership sales and marketing experts to just talk about the industry, talk about what's going on and talk about what the future may look like. Um, we're on there. You can look me up on LinkedIn.

[00:36:36] I'm one of the few Brett Williams is on there. I think what's funny is I actually went through and connected with all the other Brett Williams, just cause, but, uh, yeah, look me up on LinkedIn. Um, you can visit my company, the website, leading linkedin.com. Um, there are some free resources there where you can.

[00:36:54] One of the things that, uh, I did not too long ago is I put together an e-book. Um, and that ebook is called how posting on LinkedIn is killing your brand and five steps to make sure it doesn't. Um, and here's the thing is we as sellers, we all have personal brands as well, so that matters. And so that it's a little bit, it's a detailed ebook.

[00:37:13] Um, but if you want to pick it up, you can pick it up for free on our website, leading links.com. 

[00:37:17] Collin Mitchell: [00:37:17] All right. And everybody that's listening to the podcast. We will drop those links in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode, write us a review, share it with your friends. And we are listening for your feedback.

[00:37:32] Thank you for tuning into this episode.

[00:37:38] Thank you for tuning in, into this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host, Colin Mitchell.

[00:38:01] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.