Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Jan. 20, 2021

Episode #48 S1-EP48 Rethink The Way You Sell with Jeff Bajorek

Jeff Bajorek joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle Podcast. Jeff shares some unique sales message from his book to all sales folks listener out there who wants to up their sales game.


Jeff Bajorek is a Consultant, an Author, and a Podcast Host. He helps executives and business owners design and implement their sales strategies and then help their teams execute. Jeff helps them Rethink The Way You Sell.

Jeff Bajorek has a book called The Five Forgotten Fundamentals of Prospecting. The book focuses on five simple, common-sense fundamentals most salespeople ignore.

You can find out more about Jeff Bajorek through his website at https://www.jeffbajorek.com/.  You can also listen to his Podcast called The Why and The Buy, which is available on his website and all major podcasting channels.

If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.

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Transcript

Sales Hustle - Episode 48 - Jeff Bajorek

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for. To up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales prefers, transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right. What is happening is sales hustlers, uh, welcome. Do another episode. I've got Jeff, but Jorah key is a consultant author, podcast hosts, and nothing less than a sales bad-ass. Um, we actually recorded an episode previously and technology did not cooperate. So this is round two.

[00:00:53] And I can tell you he's going to bring nothing but fire, and we've got some exciting things to talk about. Jeff. Welcome to the show. Oh, it's good to be back here. Um, the, uh, the toughest part, Collin is going to be remembering exactly what I said last time and word for word, delivering it to you again, but I'm up for the challenge.

[00:01:09] Yeah, I think, uh, I have confidence in you, so I think we can deliver and if not, it. I'm sure it's going to be great. Either way we will deliver something today. There's no question about that. And, um, you know, it's funny, we were joking around, like, I don't even remember what we talked about. Right? Like every time I step into a both right.

[00:01:28] Figuratively speaking, or we, we get together on a show, it's like, look, what do you wanna talk about today? What's top of mind for you today. Let's go with that. Cause that's where your passion is, is where your energy is. It's where your head is. Trying to, for me trying to remember some kind of talking point, like I know, I don't know if this is a super power or if it is like a real detriment to my success, but I don't have to, many of these go tos that I'm just on this platform, I'm stumping right.

[00:01:54] For this. And, and yeah. Looking in some ways, I think it hurts me in other ways. I think it does help cause I'm pretty versatile. But, um, I liked that because there's some people that, you know, You know, everybody's different, right? Some people that are getting ready to come on the show, they're like, Hey, is there an agenda?

[00:02:10] Do we have a pre-call and we need to talk about it. I'm like, Nope, we're just going to talk about sales, sales, and more sales, deliver a message and hope somebody can learn something and take it back to the office too. Either up their game in sales, or maybe it's just the kick in the ass that they need of a reminder of something that they already know that they should be doing.

[00:02:26] Um, and, and, and I like to go in without a plan like yourself, because I find even if we have a plan, good chance, we're not going to totally stick to it anyway. Right. Oh yeah. It's going to go off the rails in a good way. And you need to embrace that. We learned that on our show, we tried to control too much early on.

[00:02:43] And what we found was that. The, the, the script, it was really, it wasn't really scripted, but, uh, the plan was there to make sure that we didn't fall on our faces. Right. But then when the plan started to hold us back and it was like, they want to go here, but Oh, Christie said she was going to ask this question.

[00:02:58] So I want to make sure I give her time for that. And then you end up in this place where you're overthinking things. I think to look at my brand is rethink the way you sell, right. Thinking is important. But overthinking is a problem when you get there. To the point where you think too much. So you start to freeze up and second and third guest things, you can't be really effective as a seller.

[00:03:21] If you can't be nimble, agile, flexible. And, and so you, you, you have to find a balance there it's an important thing to, to develop. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that kind of ties into makes me think of like having a script, right? Like you have a script, but you can't fully rely on the script. The script can't be everything.

[00:03:38] The script is a guide. The script is to help you when you get started. And I'm a big believer in scripts. And I love trying new scripts, but you got to have. Some flexibility to be able to question stack or, you know, base conversations are going to go in many different directions. And I think a lot of sellers want to try to have like a cookie cutter way of like, this is how we approach everything and that you know, is going to get you some wins, but it's only going to take you so far.

[00:04:05] What are your thoughts on that? You have to be willing to go where the prospect has never gone before and where you. Have never gone before. That's scary. Yeah. And, but that's where real curiosity takes you and your prospects can pick up on real curiosity when you ask questions. Why? Because look, here's the, if you've never asked that question before, it's going to sound like you've never asked that question before, but if it's the right question to ask,  prospects are going to feel that they're going to feel that vulnerability that you have.

[00:04:34] They're going to feel that curiosity. You can't be truly curious if you're not willing to be wrong and that scares people. Yeah. Because salespeople have been told, trained that you need to be in control all the time. You need to set the tone for the meeting. You need to have an agenda and an end goal, and yes you do.

[00:04:55] But the tone for that, meaning doesn't need to be on the seller. I'm going to dominate this year in my house. Now the tone for the meeting, particularly if you sell something that people buy more than once, if this is a long-term relationship, it doesn't need to be, um, you're in my house now, junior. And I'm going to tell you how it is and it needs to be more like, where can we go together?

[00:05:15] What can we do together? What can we solve together? What can we do together that we can't do individually? What can we do that is going to be mutually beneficial for both your business and mine and what kind of problems can we solve collaboratively? There's a lot of room for vulnerability in there and there's no, there's, there's no script for that.

[00:05:34] There is not, it doesn't make venture capitalists happy. It doesn't make private equity happy all the time. It does. Once you start generating revenue and returns on those investments and on those relationships. But like, you have to be brave enough to do that. And too many people want to say, just give me the talking points.

[00:05:53] How do I say it? When do I say it? How often do I say it? Yep. Um, okay. Just give me some common objections. What are the rebuttals? You know, all of that stuff. I want some certainty. Okay. 2020 taught us that you don't get that you're not allowed that you have to be able to thrive in a little bit of uncertainty.

[00:06:16] Let's control what we can control, but once we've controlled the things that we know we can control, let's be brave enough to step forward and accept that maybe this could go sideways if it does. I'll still be okay. Yeah. Uh, th that's, um, there's a lack of bravery in, in our profession right now. Gone. Yeah, I, I do, I do get what you're saying and I could see how for a lot of sellers, you know, it could be scary to not have a laid out plan of if they say this, then I say that.

[00:06:50] And just being open to having more of a collaborative conversation and something you said stood out right. Is, is the prospect knows if you're genuinely curious. Or if it's something you have somewhere on a script that you were told you need to ask, there's, there's a, there's a big difference in the type of question that you're asking, how you're asking the question may be a little bit unsure when you're asking and maybe it doesn't like totally tie back to like you getting the next yes.

[00:07:18] That you need in your sales process. You know, buyers are smart. And they can see through a lot of that crap that people think, um, that they don't where you're just trying to get them to the next. Yes. Versus you're genuinely curious. If can I help you? Is it worth it for you, for me to help you? I think it was 1989.

[00:07:39] I might be getting the date wrong, but I think it was 1989. Um, spin selling Neil Rackham, published, spin selling, and it was this radical idea that you could close sales by using questions instead of making statements. And that you could engage people in a sales conversation rather than having them listen to a pitch.

[00:07:58] And so that takes several years to come into focus and actually get some act, you know, some play, right. And then people get this idea of, well, hold on. I still need control. But I'm supposed to ask questions. Okay. So how do I turn this question into, or this statement into a question? How do I predetermined what the answer's going to be?

[00:08:16] And I'm still painting my prospect into a corner. I'm just using words or using statements with question marks at the end of it. Right. It sounds like it's, uh, in the interrogative, it's really just, um, just, I'm still telling you how this is going to be. Okay. With a more level playing field with a, uh, um, with a smaller world, so to speak because options and commerce that the world has become smaller because we do business worldwide.

[00:08:43] Instead of just in our local area here, people have options. You have to be better. And what we're finding is people don't like to be treated that way. So they will find someone who will treat them the way they want to be treated, or at least in a way that doesn't make them feel skeevy when they're done.

[00:09:00] And so the people who can actually use questions, the people who are brave enough to ask questions that aren't just painting someone into a corner. Yeah. They're not going to win all those deals because sometimes it just doesn't go away. Sometimes they learn that they're not the right fit. Oh my goodness.

[00:09:17] Yeah. Right. But it's just this, um, You have to be willing to treat people correctly and you also have to be willing to make them think, okay. And even, and even to touch on that. Right. So treat people the way they want to be treated, even when you don't get what you want from them. Right, right. Because you're not always going to get the outcome.

[00:09:34] You're looking for something that I tell my team is like, Hey, the goal is, regardless of the outcome, whether they do business with you, they don't do business with you. They do business. And then for some reason they stopped doing business, regardless of whatever that looks like, the outcome needs to be, that they feel like, okay, it was a good experience.

[00:09:54] The person needs to be. Treated with a higher level of respect and importance than whether or not you make the sale, right? The outcome of your interaction means I need to leave this person in a better place than they were before I started. Right. More often than not, that's going to lead people to be intrigued by what you do and how you can help them in other ways.

[00:10:18] Right? Because it's so different, it's so different that it's going to stand out. Um, and, and, and, and the thing is, is it's actually not. As difficult I think is maybe people think, just treat them like people and not transactions or commission checks. You had said that before. Right. And you're not you. And I aren't the only people saying that.

[00:10:35] Right? So this, this is kind of growing in popularity, which I think is a good thing. Um, I have three levels of questioning, right? And, and these are challenges for sales reps to consider. And they are bars that can be clear or cleared, then they go up as the number goes up. Okay. So the first level, this is entry level, right?

[00:10:56] Ask your prospects questions that they don't know the answers to. Okay, that's important. It's going to make them think it's going to create that necessary tension in the sales process that I've written about in the five forgotten frontier was a prospecting. Right. So, so can you, can you give them, can you give us some examples of those types of questions?

[00:11:14] Ooh. Um, it's so situational and dependent on, you know, what I'm selling, but you know, for, for what, um, for what I do and when I'm questioning prospects and going through discovery right now is okay. So what are you trying to accomplish here? Have you thought about this factor, you know, uh, for instance, like, have you thought about, um, you know, do your reps have what they need in order to achieve the goals that you're, you're trying to achieve?

[00:11:42] Whether it's a tool, whether it's, um, marketing collateral, whether it's stories, whether it's, you know, studies, whether, you know, whatever, but like, you know, do they have N sometimes they do know the answer to that question. A lot of times they find, Oh, I've never thought of it that way. Right. So I don't know if I know the answer to that.

[00:11:57] I think I know the answer to that, but you're creating this, intrigued this idea that you know, more than they do, and that you may be able to be a guide for them. That is the tension that you're trying to create there. So I don't know if I give you a very specific, specific enough example. No, I think it's, I think it's a great example in, in, in basically, you know, you're, you're trying to get them to think right.

[00:12:18] And take them places they haven't gone before or. Or think about things they haven't considered. Um, and people like learning things. And if they feel that you're the type of person that's going to show them or teach them something that they don't know or solve a problem from them, that they didn't even know existed.

[00:12:33] You're the right man for the job. Exactly. That's what you're trying to, you're trying to lead them to your solution. Not lead. With that solution. I've um, I heard bill McCormick say that on a podcast recently and, and it's, I want to give him credit for saying that I liked the way he put that, but lead them to your solution.

[00:12:49] Don't lead with the solution. So ask them question that they don't know the answer to level two is ask them a question that you don't know the answer to. Hmm. Okay. That takes a little bit of bravery. Because we, like I said, we've been told this story about, well, let's just use questions to lead them to the conclusion that we already know, which has our solution is clearly the best for theirs.

[00:13:11] That's still manipulative and still not nice. And nobody likes that shit. Oh yeah. And even, even I've even seen it go farther where people are framing the questions in a way where they're just really framing it to get the answers that they want to get to the next step. Right. Where it's like, You know, wordsmithing and just kinda like trying to trick them into saying what they want them to say to, to move forward.

[00:13:31] Right. So, um, so you're saying, and, and these there's no like, Hey, here's the, here's these questions like it's so situational, depending on who you're talking to, what you sell, how they respond, how they answer, the previous questions are going to lead to the next set of questions. Correct. This is curiosity, right?

[00:13:49] If you're engaged in mindful and present in the conversation, you're going to hear things you, and if you've been doing this, selling what you sell for any length of time, you're going to understand some of the things that you need to learn about their business. You're going to need to learn what their goals are.

[00:14:02] You're going to need to learn the objectives that they're specifically trying to accomplish to see where you fit. Right? Discovery is two way qualification, right? I mean, yes. You're trying to learn whether or not they're a good fit for you. You. Aren't entirely sure. Maybe they fit your ICP, but you are only partially sure that they, that you're a good fit for them.

[00:14:19] So you're trying to rule each other out. Right. So that's the, I don't want to skip over that. That's such an important piece that I think most sellers don't fully understand. So sales hustlers listen up to that. Discovery is equally for you as it is for them. Like, you know, I think. It, it takes a level of confidence to walk away from a prospect because it's not a right fit for you because ultimately you've got to understand there's only so many hours in the day.

[00:14:46] There's only so many people you can work with. There's only so many people that can fit into your pipeline and you want people in there that genuinely need your help. You can genuinely solve something for them. And they see the value in that. And I think sellers are just so quick to shove people into the pipeline because they may be halfway meet the criteria.

[00:15:06] They maybe have some level of interest. Um, and maybe it's just a piece managers or to get numbers on the board or in the pipeline. I don't know. Maybe it's fear-based that? I think there's a lot of different reasons, but the discovery is so important for yourself. So you're not wasting your time on prospects that you shouldn't be your close rates go way up when you know that you're the right fit.

[00:15:28] When, you know that they're the right fit for you when you know, you're the right fit for them. Right. And close rate is not a good enough metric on its own there too many holes in that theory. But, um, if, when you think about winning consistently, and when you think about learning from your consistent wins, something becomes very, um, uh, true.

[00:15:48] Something becomes very clear. These are the specifics of the, our best clients. And then we want to do is you want to go out and want to find more of your best clients. You don't just want to find the people who you think you can coerce into doing business with you. One, the client doesn't feel good about that, too.

[00:16:05] It's unsustainable for you because when you stay at the level where you're only attracting are only reaching for the low hanging fruit, you find that it's rather unfulfilling those. PR those customers are not as profitable. They are not as good to work with. They're they're more, uh, higher churn rate.

[00:16:23] Yeah. The higher churn, everything. They make everything else higher. They make everything else harder. And then what you find it near the end of that lack of sustainability is that you find that. Oh, no. I'm only willing to talk to people who are willing to take advantage of me. Right? Like there are those people that, okay, well, these are the people that we'll hear from that are willing to talk to me.

[00:16:40] Oh, okay. It's not optimal, but okay. Let's get some reps. And then as you move through, if you never move up into the tree a little higher into the tree, then you end up, um, sticking at this level and then you run out there. There are people who are known to not be good customers. They're known to, Oh, well, if I do business with you, what's in it for me.

[00:16:58] Yeah, I know your solution is great, but what else do you got? And, and it's, it's not, you feel gross about having to do business with those people cause you never leveled yourself up. You never decided to reach a little higher, go a little further. Um, so you have to be willing to disqualify yourself from the discussion at some point.

[00:17:16] Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and I think that something you said about right is, is, is taking those deals or, you know, working those deals that aren't maybe the most ideal, but you're just, you know, shoving them through to just, you know, get something. Right. And, and I think that something you said that's important right.

[00:17:33] As it holds you back from, from leveling up. Right. Um, and you know, all of those things like chip away at your competence as a seller. Oh yeah. Big time, big time. And we can go there. Colin. I actually don't mind going there, but I want to make sure I get the third level of questions out before we leave that train of thought.

[00:17:50] Before that train leaves, we can circle back to say, um, the, the third level of questioning level one is asking them questions. They don't know the answer to, hopefully you do so that you can. Start to create a little bit of that tension being brave enough at level two, to ask questions that you don't know the answer to because you're willing to walk away.

[00:18:08] If this isn't a good fit, but also showing a little more of that vulnerability. Like, no, I'm here for you. We are in real time. I'm present. I'm looking at you. I'm looking you in the eye or at least we're over the phone. I'm right here with you. I need to know this. I want to know this. The highest level of questioning are the questions that neither of, you know, the answers to.

[00:18:27] These are the forward-looking questions. These are that figurative, you know, when we can get together in person again, you're kind of figuratively wrapping your armor on someone's shoulder. And you're looking off into the horizon a little bit saying, what could it mean for us to do this together? Right.

[00:18:44] What kind of possibilities can we create? Everybody loves to daydream. Most people don't love it enough to actually do it on purpose. But when you put yourself in that daydreaming place, when you think about possibilities, when you think about potential as we're recording this right now, first week of January is where a lot of people are.

[00:19:02] That's positive. There's a ton of positive. The vibe that goes along with that, the mojo is good. When you do that, you have to earn the right to ask those questions, right? If there's no context, If you haven't created a soft space for those questions to land, you can't ask them, but most reps don't go there.

[00:19:20] The ones that do sell big deals and they sell a lot of them because they've earned the right to do that. Right. I mean, prospecting is all about establishing yourself. As someone worth talking to with something worth talking about, and discovery is about creating a safe place for those hard hitting impactful forward-looking questions to land the best reps.

[00:19:44] Do that Collin. And walk me through, when is the right time to start to, when have you earned the right to ask these level of questions? I think it's certainly more often than not it's on the same call, right? If, well, there's an asterisk with that, but if you, if you're not for, uh, forcing discovery, right?

[00:20:10] Like, I mean, like I've got typically two, some often three calls with my clients before we, before I even tell them how much I cost, which means I give a fair amount of free consulting. Away. Right. I mean, cause that's just part of my discovery process, but I need to learn if I'm a good fit for them. Um, as much as I need to learn, if they're a good fit for me.

[00:20:30] And so sometimes that means digging in right away and asking those questions, but I've got dedicated discovery calls and that is the intro. And then two discovery calls. I don't think enough people do that. So I don't think you can force your way into that. Um, in a 30 minutes. Like, hi, my name's Colin.

[00:20:49] Nice to meet you. I think we can, we can, uh, help you. Is there, uh, you know, do you have a few minutes right now for, for me to tell you why you're not going to get to level three questioning there, but if you take your time and do really thorough discovery, if you create a little bit of tension at level one with just a couple, couple, maybe three questions, get them talking a little bit.

[00:21:09] You can sense that they're. Wandering into a place that they know they need to go there, but they're not entirely sure what's in front of them. They need to do you earn trust in though with those questions that they're safe, they know they need to go there, but I got you. Cause I've been there before.

[00:21:25] These are, I'm going to guide the way, right? Because I, they don't know the answers to those questions, but you know, enough to be able to guide them the second level. Now you're showing them. That they have a role in this too, that they know enough about their business to where they can continue to move forward and you need to learn about them so that you can help them to the best of your available talents, which you've already established at level one.

[00:21:52] And then level three, it's like, okay, so what, but I'm possible if this, if we work together. Yeah. Now I'm going to make an assumption and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but. If you jump to level three, questioning too early, or if level one and level two didn't wasn't executed properly. How can that go?

[00:22:15] That could go really badly. I don't know if it could go really badly. If you have learned even a decent amount of intuition as a sales rep. Those level three questions won't feel right to ask chances are you're not going to ask them again. You can't script them. So it's not as if you're calling you like this is something you, you look, which is why in retrospect, right?

[00:22:40] Yeah. That's probably why most reps never even get there. You're right. Cause it's not scripted. It's not something it's not like, Hey, you ask these questions and these questions and these answers lead to these questions. And then finally, if you can get to these questions, You know. Yeah. They're not, um, answers on an exam that you hope to answer correctly, right?

[00:22:59] It's it's, they're not questions on an exam that you hope to answer correctly. It's feeling your own intuition. Hey, look, here are the things that I need to know here are they, here are my questions and you can script these, or you can have a pool of these that you draw from here are the questions that I asked to create a little bit of tension, right?

[00:23:14] And I coach people on that and I say, look, you take your biggest three differentiators. Okay. And there is a reason there's a fundamental difference between your offering and something else. Okay. What are three or four questions you can ask that would start a conversation about that differentiating factor, right?

[00:23:30] That's pretty straight forward. So you're getting them to think about something tangible to that that would lead you right to your differentiation point. Cool. After that, it's a little bit of feel. You don't know, there's no guide to the rest, but based on what they've told you, and it's always something different because no two clients are exactly alike based on what they've told you now, you know, based on what you're trying to offer.

[00:23:54] Okay. All right. All I'm going to need to connect those dots. So here's a question. Oh, I didn't know what that question was going to be, but I know I need to learn this thing. Yeah. Cool. So you ask those once you get. Those answers and you feel like there's still a good flow to the, um, to the discussion.

[00:24:11] Maybe that's the time for you to say, okay, cool. Look, I've got some things to think about. I hope you have a couple of things to think about too. Does it make sense to continue this conversation in a couple of days, mull that over. I'm going to move my stuff over. I think there's a way that we can help, but I need to learn a little bit more.

[00:24:30] Let's regroup in a couple of days, you come back. Now you're in a position where you can ask those level two level three questions. Maybe there are a couple of other level, two questions you need to ask. Maybe there's another level. One question you want to ask, but that level three question of, okay, cool.

[00:24:44] So I was thinking about this. Have you considered this possibility at all? And now all of a sudden you're a visionary that takes, that takes extreme discipline to be able to, to, to, to, to not. To not just go into the next line of question and feel like you got to cram everything into one call, um, and also be human enough to be, to, to, to admit, Hey, I don't have all the answers right now, but here there's my question to that, Collin.

[00:25:15] What's your hurry. I work with clients for a long time. Right. Like an engagement with me, if it's not just a workshop or a weekend, like an SKO or something like that. Typical engagement with me is three to six months. I've had them last as long. I've got one going on six years right now. And I've got a lot of other clients that call me back, you know, it's like, okay, these six months, this event, it made sense.

[00:25:39] But then we got another problem to solve Jeff. What, you know, um, what do you think about this? And we re-engage. So I think about making customers and clients for life. Not for a commission check. Yeah. So to me, and maybe I'm jaded because I know there are some people out there who sell, who sell some transactional things.

[00:25:58] And quite frankly, if you sell transactional stuff, this might not apply to you. But my point of view is what's the difference between a two week sales cycle and a two day sales cycle in the long-term. Yeah, we're recording this right now. I'm 41 years old. I'm going to do this for another 30, 40 years.

[00:26:16] Because at some point I might want to hang it up, but thinking realistically, I can't ever consider a time when I won't want to talk to people about an exciting and inspiring thing for them to grow. That's wired into me. Right. So. 30 years from now. Am I going to look back and say, you know, this client was only my client for, uh, 25 years, six months and three weeks instead of 25 years and seven months.

[00:26:43] Right? Like what, what were we talking about? Delaying a process by a week or two? I just don't, I don't see why that isn't worth stretching it out. Being patient, letting things breathe, letting things grow and identifying what they could turn into. There's value there and people are in too much of a hurry to stop and think they're in too much of a hurry to do the right thing.

[00:27:09] And they're, they're just, it's just, how much can I do today to make it look like I'm really busy so that hopefully my manager thinks that I'm doing a great job. That's bullshit. Now the thing is, is.  I want to touch on this. People are rushing the process, right? You see it all the time. Um, and I think that it comes from lack of confidence and fear, right?

[00:27:37] Like, uh, like there's a lot of pressure to hit your number, your activity, quota, all of these things. I got to have so many discovery calls, so many demos. I get so many in the pipeline closed. So many deals I got. So they rush the process or even skip steps. Yeah. Which gives you a totally unreliable pipeline.

[00:27:58] Um, and so I want to talk about something that we talked about before we hit record, which you just said something that made me remember it. Right? Cause we were, we were laughing about this. Like, yeah. Even if we have a plan, we're probably not going to stick to it, but I'm happy. I'm happy. I'm happy. It's gone.

[00:28:12] Where it did. Right. But you talked about, you said, you know, people are doing things to make their managers happy or hit their quotas or whatever. Right. So their activity or looking like they're busy. So why is that like, do the, do they need to rethink the way they're selling, which I know is something you like to, you know, we talked about planning, you know, disconnecting sending their tech on vacation.

[00:28:37] Like what are the things that they need to do to rethink sales? I think 99%, it might be low of salespeople do not act with enough intention. It's wind me up. Let me go. Okay. Well, in which direction did you point me after you wound me up? Right. People don't think about that. I have to think about what we want to accomplish.

[00:29:08] We have to think about why we want to accomplish it. And we need to think about how to best accomplish that. And that does not need to be a long process. You don't need to sit for 45 minutes a day in a quiet spot with a candle lit to identify what that is on a day to day basis. All you might need to do is reaffirm or tweak that a little bit, but.

[00:29:30] The culture we live in, particularly the sales culture we live in, particularly the people that everybody is following online on every possible social media channel is rewarding. This concept of hustle. And I believe that hustle is important. Right? Look, your podcast is this the sales hustle podcast. I know who I'm talking to.

[00:29:47] Right. But like, what are you hustling in? Have you people don't think about that? If the, if the word of the day is just hustle, everything. Right. Well then hold on. Are you mindful at all of whether or not what you're doing is going to yield the desired outcome. You cannot fail to validate that otherwise your hustle is wasted and anybody who hustles for a living knows that that energy, that drive is too valuable to be wasted.

[00:30:21] Yeah. So give yourself a minute. If yourself, 10 minutes at the beginning of your morning, give yourself 10 minutes. Give yourself a few minutes at the beginning of every time block, right? Here's my blonde for calling. Okay. Who am I calling today? What am I trying to sell today? What are the questions that are going to be on my mind?

[00:30:40] You batch these kinds of activities so that you can develop some sort of a rhythm, right? Just reaffirm the desired outcome for yourself. Your why, and then how you're going to approach it that day and then go do it then. Why not? Yep. And let me go, but what you've done is you've set your direction. Hmm, you've set your vector at that point.

[00:31:00] And it changes, it changes the whole mindset before you jump into the activity. And, and my argument is, um, and this changed for me, right? So, you know, when I started out in sales early on and I was young and I started my first company, it was like, you know, the, the, the typical, you know, what everybody. It says you're supposed to do right work the 70, 80 hour weeks.

[00:31:21] And that's the hustle and that's changed drastically for me. I get more done by working less hours. And, and what I mean by that is if I want to do more at work than I need to, if I want to get more done at work and I don't mean work more hours, we're not going to be more time calling. Right. I mean, be more efficient, get more done, have a better hustle.

[00:31:46] Right. Um, what that looks like for me is investing in myself more personally, spending more, getting proper sleep, eating, healthy, having an exercise routine, you know, writing down my goals, doing all these things that I need to do personally so that when I get to work and work, my, I work eight, nine hours a day.

[00:32:04] That's it. That's all I put in. And, and I'm in full crush. It mode when I'm here. And you know, that is, I contribute that to. Investing into myself personally, so that I can perform at my best level when I am here sharpening the saw. Right. I mean, when, um, if you do not care for or maintain it, tool, it breaks.

[00:32:26] That's what it does. So do you put yourself in position to deliver maximum impact in a short period of time? Right. You know, um, and then how long can you reasonably deliver that maximum impact? Like eight to nine hours. I mean, that's a, that was a less than arbitrary number. When the eight hour Workday was, was contrived.

[00:32:50] Um, there were reasons for that, you can get three shifts that way in the factory. And that's, what's, that's where that originated. I don't work in a factory and I'm not paid for my time paid for the results that I create. I was always paid for the results that I created when I, when I was in sales, whether it was with a product or now that I'm the product you.

[00:33:10] Have to understand what you're trying to with the outcome you're trying to create and whether or not you are putting yourself in the best position to create it. If that means that you got to dig an inch deep and a mile wide and work 18 hours a day. Okay. I'm skeptical about that, but I can be convinced let's go.

[00:33:27] And if you, if you can pass through that level of scrutiny, if you can clear that bar, great. But send the bar consider whether or not you're clear the bar. Does it pass the, say it out loud test? Like I'm just going to work 18 hours a day for the next year, 40 years. Um, cause it sounds good. Good luck with that.

[00:33:46] I just, I don't think you're going to be able to do that. Is there not a better way right in front. Go ahead. And I, and I think what you said about being intentional about these activities can, can one help you validate. Like what, uh, what am I doing and why am I doing it? But also you might find that there's things that like, okay, maybe I shouldn't be doing this.

[00:34:09] This is not a good use of my time. This is not a great client for me. You know, they're sucking everything out of me and I can't be my best self for everybody else, you know? Um, so being intentional is going to help you be focused and clear on why you're doing what you do, but it might also help you. Zero in on some things that you should stop doing or shouldn't be doing or people you shouldn't be working with.

[00:34:33] Yup. Yup. That's exactly it. And, um, you can get back to disqualifying those prospects, get back to disqualifying yourself. You get back to our, the associations that I have professionally personally, are they contributing to what I'm doing or are they bringing me down? Um, so much to dig in here, Colin, but I, I, I want to stay focused with this and just say, look, what are you trying to achieve?

[00:34:57] And is what you're doing right now. The best way to achieve it. And is it possible that the best way to achieve what you're trying to accomplish is to right now, just sit still and rethink the way you sell and to sit still and rethink what you're doing. If that is the right, if those are the right tactics, if those are the right techniques, if you're selling the right thing that, I mean, are you giving yourself what you need?

[00:35:28] Are you, you know, one of the things that gets into salespeople's way and, and this myself included is my inability to sit still and just be okay in the moment. Right. Because when we act for the sake of acting, we do stuff that doesn't need to be done. That always gets in our way. At some point, sometimes the best thing to do is nothing at all, because you got to let things take time.

[00:35:52] You got to let things develop, right? You got to mind your ability to continue to perform at a high level and look. It doesn't it. Look, if you find that you have too much of that time on your hands, well, then go make some more calls and maybe you can scale yourself a little bit, right? I'm not saying, hold yourself back.

[00:36:09] I'm not saying work 10 hours a day, because that's going to be the best for you. Unless you're an entrepreneur who is trying to design a lifestyle business where they only need to work 10 hours a day. Like those exist too. They don't want to mince words here. What I mean is you don't have to be busy for the sake of being busy.

[00:36:27] Sometimes the best thing is. Just be okay. I've not read a lot of fiction, not read a lot of stuff for enjoyment. I'm like, what do you mean who has time to read? Who has time to watch movies who has time to binge Netflix on a weekend? Like what I'm always, always, always, and finally more recently, and this is my year for that column is like, wait a second.

[00:36:52] I must've missed a memo. I must be doing something wrong. I can't go out and enjoy the life that I want to lead because I'm too busy trying to create it, even though it's right there in front of me, if I only would've noticed that's what those quiet moments are for. It sounds counterintuitive, but they reinvigorate you.

[00:37:10] You do your best work when you're rested. You do your, you have your highest capabilities when you are in touch with why you're trying to do it. That's no, I can beat that horse to death. Yeah. Yeah. Or even playing video games. Right.

[00:37:29] My wife and I have been revisiting Dr. Mario, the old eight bit Nintendo Dr. Mario. We play against each other. It's fun. And, um, magically like 90 minutes will evaporate and it's like, Oh wait, you gotta tuck the kids in. Geez, what's going on here. But it's, it's kind of fun. It's, it's kind of mindless, it's better than watching reruns and, um, You know, we, it's funny.

[00:37:53] We, we actually find ways to talk about real stuff while we're doing that too, because it's, it's just one of those kinds of temporary distractions and you're kind of focused on what you're doing, but you're more focused on being there with the other person. It seems silly to play video games at night, but, uh, if it turns into quality time with your, with your better app, then maybe it's not so bad, we're play hard, right?

[00:38:15] Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. And one of these days we'll be able to, you know, uh, uh, get back to going out to eat. Dinner for date nights and, and things like that. But, um, you know, in the next couple of months here, we still got, we still got a mind, our P's and Q's a little bit in my household. Anyway, we have to, we have to be mindful of that.

[00:38:35] Yeah, no, I totally understand that. Hey, Jeff, uh, thanks so much for coming on today. Um, and, um, just tell folks where they can learn more about you. Tell them about your podcast. Anything else that you want to let them know before we wrap this up? Thanks Colin. Um, you can find me@jeffpodrick.com. Um, that's kind of the hub.

[00:38:55] I don't know what I mean. I'm getting ready to that, that, that, um, that website is going to get a facelift here first part of February. So depending on when this launches or depending on when you listen, um, you might catch it on either side of that. So revisit the website. How about this? Revisit the website in the second half of February, and I guarantee that you will, um, see the updated version.

[00:39:17] Um, I've got a. A bunch of projects that I'm working on, I'm doing some digital stuff in a, in an online community@rethinkthewayyousell.com. And I've actually got, I've got two podcasts. The why, and the buy that I do with my partner, Christie Walters, we're in our fifth year, we're having a lot of fun. We do some really cool things that a lot of other shows don't do.

[00:39:33] And, um, I've also got, uh, another podcast now called deeper thought. That's actually, subscription-based, it's a a hundred dollars a year and it's really my best work because there's stuff that you can do behind closed doors. So to speak that you can't necessarily do out in the open, I think is really making an impact that people who have subscribed are like, Holy shit.

[00:39:52] I, yes, I paid for a podcast and I'd pay for this one again. Um, so that's, that's worth checking out if you're interested in that's at deeper thought podcast.com. All right. Awesome. We will drop all those links in the show notes for you. Sales hustlers. If you're listening to the podcast, subscribe, write us a review, share with your friends and we're listening for your feet.

[00:40:13] Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional? Looking to take your sales career to the next level. If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales, cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell.

[00:40:37] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review, share the podcast with your friends.