Joining Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle Podcast is Tyzer Evans. Tyzer shares his story on how he accidentally got into Sales. He shares some tactical sales knowledge on how he helps fix sales teams.
Tyzer Evans is the Group Health District Manager at National General Insurance. He is also a Podcast Host at Grind Sell Elevate. Grind Sell Elevate is a podcast dedicated to helping sales professionals increase their income, sales, and success. They cover various topics from ways to stay driven, sales tips and techniques, book reviews, and interviews with sales leaders and professionals.
You can listen to Tyzer Evans Podcast called Grind Sell Elevate on major podcasting channels at Spotify, iTunes, etc. You can also follow and connect with him on the following socials below.
If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.
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Sales Hustle - Episode 43 - Tyzer Evans
Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for. To up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales prefers, transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.
[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode of sales hustle. I've got a special guest. I'm going to be speaking with Tiser Evans, who is a podcast host himself, and a bit of a sales bad-ass at fixing sales teams. So we're going to jump in, we're going to learn a little bit about Kaiser's story, uh, briefly as always, and then we will jump into the tactical stuff and talk shop so that you can.
[00:00:58] Up your sales game, Tyler. Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks Colin. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah. So just tell us the short version of, you know, why the hell did you get into sales? Well, like any good sales person, it was a 100% on accident. Um, of course, yeah. I got fired from a job in college working at 24 hour fitness, which is a whole weird story in and of itself.
[00:01:21] Right. And so I got fired from that job. Uh, she didn't really mean much to seven bucks an hour. I'm in the mall with my college roommate. At the time I walked by this surf shop and I was into surfing. I was in San Diego and he was like, Hey man, like you should go work there. And I was like, yeah, she was, I had to go to work at a surf shop, like surfing.
[00:01:40] So I go in there, I get the job. And anyway, it's kind of like soft sales, right? It's retail sales. And, uh, so I was there two and a half years and I won some sales awards. And then I was kinda like, ah, maybe I'm kind of good at this. I like talking to people. So it has been easy. And then after college I went to work for enterprise Rent-A-Car and how the same success there.
[00:01:57] And, um, that was a real training boot camp for me in sales and got promoted several times and, and, uh, was always a top salesperson and he got into insurance and kinda just never looked back from there. Hmm. Okay. So what do you think it is that made you, you know, good at sales early on. Um, when you took that job at the surf shop, well, one is just, I have a tenacious work ethic.
[00:02:21] I got my first job at 14. Uh, so anybody who's in sales, you got to know that says it's a grind, right? I mean, you gotta be willing to put in the effort to get better, but also to put an effort to spend the hours of cultivating prospect lead list. But early on, he didn't have to get the surf shop. But what I had a knack was I just, I've never been someone that it was like a kid I'd never had that stranger danger.
[00:02:43] You know, I love talking to people. I love being around people and I love helping people, um, at its core. And so for me, just to be able to, my mom comes in and they don't have to do it right. They're just looking to buy some board shorts for their kid. And so for me to just to help them, and they're looking for one pair of board shorts on how them walking out with the surf board and three pairs of shorts and, you know, a couple of t-shirts that are so it's just being able to be relatable and talking to people is kind of what we're.
[00:03:06] I really felt like that was a knack for me. Easy to talk to. Yeah. Yeah, no something you, you said that kind of stood out as, right? Like, so you enjoyed helping people, which I find that, you know, the people that really love sales, um, that are really good at sales, um, that's kind of a common thread is they enjoy helping or serving others.
[00:03:25] Right. And, um, you know, and it makes a big difference because people can sense that. They can sense if like you really are trying to help them or helping them achieve their goals, or if you're curious if you're asking the right questions and not just trying to land the sale. Oh, yeah, a hundred percent.
[00:03:44] And he's spot on, spot on. You know, the things that I talk about with my team a lot is how to ask great questions or what I call power questions. And so we even, we've gone through several exercises of like, what type of questions can you ask to start to lead someone down the sales process down, um, you know, helping you get to where you want to be, but also asking the questions to help them come up with the answer themselves.
[00:04:07] And so I think it's through, through great crushes, you become a great salesperson. Oh, I, I agree with that. Can you give us some examples of like break that down? Like what's what's a good question. That you can ask in your, maybe in your industry or just generally, um, to, you know, be curious enough to show that you're genuinely wanting to help and help them come to the realization that like they really need your help or whatever their product or services.
[00:04:33] Sure. So we, we offer a really, uh, interesting product where we, um, help people. Find group health insurance on major medical insurance. And so our products a bit different. It's not as widely known and I won't get into the nuances on the weeds of the product, but when we call them, we target insurance, brokers and agencies, and we introduce our product to them.
[00:04:53] So some of the questions that we'll ask. Is, you know, when was the last time that you wrote a, a group or you helped a client with level funded? And so that's just the name of our product. Right. And so that, that asking a question like that will get them to talk about we'll have never used it before, or yeah, I wrote the next best question.
[00:05:14] Right. Exactly. So it just, or we, we have a product called reference-based pricing, which has been a real buzz word. And so a lot of times what I'll do is I'll preface. If I got a voicemail, um, I'll leave a question on the voicemail about reference-based pricing. Hey, I saw some of your competitors in your area were using this type of product.
[00:05:34] And I was calling to get your thoughts and seeing how you've been implementing similar strategy within your agency. Love to get your take on it. Right. Making it about them. How are they using it? A lot of times, they're not, but that's the point is, so then I can come in and be the expert and help to educate them once I've peaked a little bit of an interest.
[00:05:52] Right. You're trying to intrigue them. You're trying to peak their interest. You're trying to make them curious to want to come and ask you some questions, right? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But, but through those questions, um, you know, you start to find out a lot more about their business. And one of the, my favorite questions of asking a broker is talking to them about, you know, how do you differentiate yourself in the marketplace?
[00:06:16] Yeah, that makes them really think. Right, right. Cause, cause they're always asking me like, right. You know, cause I'm trying to differentiate myself from my competitors, but talking to them about how they differentiate itself from their competitors and the B2B world, they do start to get some insight of what they're doing well with or not doing well.
[00:06:32] That positions us to be able to show a lot of value proposition for our product, but by still making the conversation about them and what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, question stacking is, is, is, is, is a definitely a, a great strategy for, you know, being more of a. Helping sort of mindset rather than just trying to speak, you know, features, benefits, price, and like, why the heck aren't we doing business?
[00:06:55] And we should be in where the best and here's why. Right. Um, right. It's a much different conversation. It's a much more collaborative conversation. You're, you're shining the light on the prospect. You're making the conversation more about them and less about you to peak their interest. And then once they start asking you questions, then you have that permission to.
[00:07:13] To, to pitch, right. Or to give your, your value prop. Um, now, so we talked a little bit about like, these are, I mean, these are all great example, samples of questions and, and, and, and I think people can take these in, regardless of what industry or product or service that they do. You can frame it into a way that works for your product or service.
[00:07:32] Um, but let's talk about some of the. Common mistakes that you've seen, you know, people that you've worked with teams that you've managed, um, what sort of questions do you see that they're asking or not asking questions and what sort of work needs to be done to get them to a place where you'd learned, like asking these type of questions that we've been talking about?
[00:07:52] Yeah. So, I mean, that's a great point. A lot of times what happens is reps will call up and they start doing the, like you were talking about what I call the interrogation style questioning. And they, they, they want to do who you're running with. How many groups do you have, right. And they start going down to this acquisition and then the moment they find out they're using a competitor or they're using a different type of product, then they want to start to tell the person how they're wrong.
[00:08:16] And immediately when you go into telling someone, although you're trying to educate them right on like why that they should see the light and come and use your product or service, you're immediately causing friction because you're telling them right. That what you've been doing actually isn't good. And so on a subconscious level, you've created friction and now you're not on the same wavelength or they're like, well, what do you mean?
[00:08:39] The decisions I've been making for 10 years are wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And then you've got a very, they've got some very negative feelings and emotions, which is not going to get you very far. Right. So like the last thing you want to tell them is like, you made a bad decision, you made the wrong decision. Right.
[00:08:55] And then make them feel. Bad about that. Like, you're not going to get a positive outcome out of making them feel like they made the wrong decision. Right. A lot of people, so a better approach typically is, is like, you're saying, ask questions to help them come to that realization on their own. Right. But if it, but if you're doing that question interrogation where you're like, obviously trying to point them in the direction that they're they're wrong.
[00:09:21] Without them coming to that on their own, um, you know, things can really fall apart in that relationship. And it's really hard to recover or build rapport from there. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. And that's where you get the kickback of like, Oh, actually I'm walking into a meeting. Uh, this isn't a good time for me, the moment you start to cause any type of friction, they're immediately going to try to ditch and get off the phone.
[00:09:44] You're going to have a really hard time engaging that person again on your follow-ups. And I think that usually, especially for young salespeople, they don't understand always where that friction comes from, but then the moment they get the rejection, then that's when they start to get the call reluctancy of like calling that person back the next week and the week after.
[00:10:00] Right. Because they already feel like, Oh, that was kind of a weird vibe. That guy was kind of a Dick. Like, nah, he wasn't really a Dick. You just didn't do your job. Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully they didn't leave some sort of negative remark in the CRM, right. Because, Oh man, that's the word hung up on me. He was rude.
[00:10:19] Never, never, never, never write a negative note in the CRM. Right? Yeah. I try to tell people in the CRMs where you can, you can actually edit, you know, remove stuff. I'll tell like reps. I'm like, if you see anything negative there or remove it because you won't remember in 60 days from now, but if you leave it in there, it'll prevent you from Colleen.
[00:10:36] Yeah, no, a hundred percent. No, I think there's okay. So, uh, I love this topic of curious and asking questions and writing and asking the right questions in, in, in, um, you know, building these relationships with your prospects or your clients or whatever the case is. Right. So, um, But sometimes you can ask too many questions.
[00:10:57] Right? So like when you talked about that, you know, question interrogation, right. Or I think what some reps can struggle with that I've seen is knowing what question leads to the next question, right? Cause like when you go with this sort of approach, you know, there's not necessarily like a linear path of like us this, and then you ask this, you know, their response leads to the next.
[00:11:20] Potential you're framing the next question or response based on what came out of, you know, the previous, what you learned or what they told you, what they shared with you or how they answered the previous question. Yeah, no, you're right. It totally does. Um, Well, and this is why I think it's important because there is no direct path to getting to the end result.
[00:11:43] Right. And so this is why it's really, really important for me. And I, you know, this is, I can only speak from my experience, but like I know for a fact in our company, I'm the only sales manager that holds a sales meeting every single day. And I do that very intentionally and tactfully because. Education is constant.
[00:12:03] And so every day we do sales training from eight to eight 30 in my office, and it would be different. I subscribed to Cardone university. So we'll watch videos on grant Cardone. I subscribed to sales gravy with Jeff blunt. So sometimes we'll watch Jeb or some of his guests. Uh, we listened to Darren Hardy videos are an oftentimes we'll do role-play.
[00:12:22] Hmm. And I think that this is getting back to your question, is that when you role play and you do it often, you do it frequently. You know, I have my guys that have been here for 30 years or for 10 years, they still role-play because at least it gives you the experience that me, cause I'm always, I'm always the broker, right?
[00:12:41] I'm going to take you in a million different directions. So when you get taken in a million different directions on the phone, You've already had a similar experience, so you know where to pivot and then what questions to ask, because you've asked questions maybe in a different sequence, but you know, that this question will lead here.
[00:12:57] So I think role playing is one of those things that's really underutilized and it's people do it a lot at the beginning when they're new, but then they kind of let go of it. And I think it has to be constant. Yeah. I agree with role playing. And just to add to that as like reviewing your calls. Hmm. I think, I think a lot of people, I mean, there's great technology out there that makes it even easier that collects the data.
[00:13:18] It makes it really easy to review your calls. Um, but I think that, you know, I'm, I'm a big believer that like, Not just the calls that went well, but like the calls that really, you totally shit, the bed, like the cost that went horrible. Like those are the calls that you're going to learn the most. I'm not a sports guy.
[00:13:36] Right. But like athletes reviewed their game tape. Right. So that they can get better. And like, if you really want to be a sales professional, that's performing at the highest level all the time. You should. Always always be open to learning something, improving, getting better. And I think as soon as you stop being open to learning, that's when you're going to plateau.
[00:13:58] Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. To be always be open to learning and reviewing your calls is important. But just like you're talking about the analogy of an athlete. It's like, if you went to Michael Jordan, you know, you said, Hey, what did you shoot? You know, your, your, what was your field goal percentage last year or your free throws or your, your three points?
[00:14:13] How many steals? They're going to know every single stat about themselves and where they're trying to improve where their weak spots are. And then that's what they're focused on in the off season. Well, sales, we don't really get an off season. Right. But, um, understanding your metrics. As well. So when you're reviewing your calls, understanding your metrics, then you know, What to work on specifically in your next calls or in your next roleplay?
[00:14:35] You know, I always, I always study all the conversion ratios cause we have, you know, in the sales process, there's a lot of different steps, especially in our business. There's like four different steps you have to get to, to get to the sale. So I look at it, maybe a rep is really great at making intro calls and getting to the first RFP.
[00:14:53] Or the first quote proposal, but to have a really hard time getting to the next step. So by me understanding their metrics and their conversion ratios, I can say, well, Hey man, you have a great job of getting into the quotes. If you have a hard time getting to this step, but then the last step you have a great closing ratio.
[00:15:09] So we need to, we need to tighten up your game here in this part of the sales process. So let's the next time you're on this type of review. I want you to record your next five conversations and we'll review them. And then we can also role play just on this specific topic to help you get better at that weak point.
[00:15:27] Mm yeah, no, I love that. I love that. So, I mean, number one, you got to have something in place to be able to track that right. To be able to see like where deals getting lost or going cold, and then just doubling down on the effort and the review and the role-playing. On that specific stage of the sales cycle.
[00:15:48] I'm a big believer that, you know, you win deals early on in the sales process, based on, you know, how deep you go in the discovery, how deep you go into the questioning, you know, how much of an impact you can articulate that, you know, You're going to make for their business early on. And if that's not covered early on in the deal cycle, um, you have a much harder time closing those later on.
[00:16:14] And you typically, if you're not as thorough, then you don't really have anything to refer back to to keep the deal moving forward. Um, and I think it's. Common that a lot of reps will skip certain steps or get a little bit excited because they think, Oh, this person likes me and we're going to do business.
[00:16:30] And then, you know, then they don't, they wonder why they've gone dark or cold and you know, they can't close them. Right. So, um, Now something that, um, I think is also, I'd like to talk about is, so before we hopped on, you said something that's kind of your specialty is, is, is getting into teams and, and fixing things.
[00:16:49] So what are the, some of the common things that you've come across when, you know, fixing teams and, and how have you addressed some of those. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, a lot of it comes from a scarcity mindset, you know, a lot of times when you need to fix a sales teams, one, you've got to make sure you've got the right people on the bus.
[00:17:06] Right. You know, a great book is Jim Collins. Good to great. And I love that analogy that sometimes you've got all these players on the bus, but they're just sitting in the wrong seats. And so it's analyzing, making sure you've got the right people and the right seats on the bus. And some people don't belong on the bus and they've got to go.
[00:17:20] So the first thing you got to analyze who are the players that, you know, unfortunately I'm not going to make it. You got to cut them quickly. Um, Get them out, get people in that can buy into you and your culture. So usually what I try to do is cause when you come into a new team, you're going to have older reps that aren't going to care about what you did.
[00:17:37] They're not going to care about where you came from or what you've accomplished because you don't understand them and their territory and their challenges. So one of the best ways to get early buy-in is to grab a rookie. And to make them successful. So it's either someone that you bring on early or you hire, and then you just train them to basically yeah, you do exactly what you did as a successful sales person.
[00:17:59] And as that person has early on success, by implementing your strategies by, you know, your followup system to power questions, whatever it can be. That'll start to perk the ears of the other people within the office. Why this person's only been here six months, they already have an outstanding results.
[00:18:15] You know, how is that happening? So then you start to cultivate kind of a buy-in and a culture around you as a manager. The, the, one of the other things I see a lot is that like, Hey, when you go to hire more salespeople, usually people go, well, Hey, that's going to take from me. You know, now you're taking away leads for me because I've got to share more leads as opposed to looking at it.
[00:18:36] There's enough for all of us to eat. Don't have a scarcity mindset because the more people that we can hire and we can get trained to penetrate the market, then. The more, it makes the market compete with us, right? If you've got your competitors out there, but you don't have enough people to penetrate the market well, then your competitors are going to just completely overtake you.
[00:18:56] So of the things I view is look at well, what's sustainable. As far as reps in an office or salespeople in an office, how far away from my end that where's the training at. So let's get everybody on board with a culture. Then let's start to build out a sales team and attack the market. And it'd be omnipresent.
[00:19:13] So like when I came to Houston, you know, we've got Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and Louisiana are kind of our territories and people were just focused on Houston. So we, so we just started, we went after San Antonio. Then we went after Austin, then went after the Valley. Then we have to lose the Ana to a point now where if you're not offering our product, you're going to be in a bad position because your competitor down the street is.
[00:19:35] And so we're forcing the marketplace to compete with each other using us, but the only way we're going to get through it was through creating a good culture. Making sure that we had the right staffing not be afraid to staff. Uh, one guy, we took 80% of his block of business away in my office. One of my reps, we took 80% of the people he'd been working away with away and distributed to other to other reps in the office.
[00:19:56] It's the most he's ever done this year with 80% less. Hmm. Explain that to me. So we have like a, we work with like, say it's like, uh, the 80, 20 principle, right? And, and that's all it is, is realizing that, Hey, this 80% of the people they may contribute, they may give you an opportunity here or there. But really what you're doing is you're trying to talk to too many people.
[00:20:19] You're trying to work with too many people. And because you're spread so thin, you're not allowed to go deep in your relationships with the 20% that are really driving 80% of your business. So it's cut the fat. Of the 80% of people that you're doing business with. Occasionally give that to some other new guys in the office, let them build those deeper relationships with your 80% you hone in on your 20, get them to do more, which they did.
[00:20:46] And now I've got three other guys working at other 80%. They're going deep on the relationship. So we just expanded the market with stuff that we already had. Now tell me, uh, for all the sales leaders. Tuning in or managers, um, that may struggle with something like that. Right? So that's, that's not an easy conversation to have, have with a rep, right.
[00:21:10] It creates a lot of uncertainty or fear. So, so, so walk me through that conversation and, and, and, and how to deliver that to one of your, you know, one of your team members. Well, that's a great question, because again, if you tell somebody, Hey, we're going to pull, you know, this much of your pipeline, they immediately freak out.
[00:21:30] Right? But that's, again, it's having, you have to have a clear understanding of where the business is coming from and understanding the metrics. So I just pulled the reports and go, Hey, over the last 36 months, you've written in predominantly this area with these people, these other people you've hit maybe once a month or once every other month, you're not working that opportunity efficiently enough.
[00:21:52] Right. Yeah. I can agree with that. And so let's double down on these people that you have. We're not going to take everybody, but we're going to take the people that you're not really doing. Well, you're not calling on, or maybe even people, you haven't talked to him in six months. What's the w what does it serve you by keeping them in your pipeline?
[00:22:11] Right. Right. Cause if I get this to somebody else down, down the hallway who will get that person to write into work with us, now it forces your brokers who may be on the fence about. I'm recommending you for the sale. It forces them to recommend you because there's more competition in the marketplace using our product.
[00:22:30] And so there's kind of scanning to see the light and then, you know, I, you know, to, Hey, just trust me on it. And, um, and you know, I was lucky that the guys did, and I'll tell you right now, uh, year over year, uh, through, through COVID through the pandemic year, over year, we're up $10 million. Wow. That's that's impressive.
[00:22:50] Um, but I think like that conversation, one thing that you stood out about that, that stood out to me, when you said that it's like your, your team's got to trust you. Right? So as a leader, as a manager, you you've got to, it takes time to build and maintain that trust to be able to have a conversation like that.
[00:23:08] And then it actually worked out as well. Um, even just, you know, deepens the trust that your team has on you. Right. Yeah, and the trust can be tricky, right, right. One bad month. And it's gone, you're back at zero, just like everybody else. One of the things about this sales managers and this is like a real double-edged sword, is that, uh, you know, especially if you're taking over a new territory is they don't always trust that, you know what you're doing.
[00:23:36] And so w when I first got to Houston, I've done this with a lot of my sales teams, whether it was in California or it's been here, is it, uh, for the first six to 12 months, I'll sell, I'll get out there in the trenches. I attended every single meeting for the first 18 months. I was here. No rep went out there without me going.
[00:23:55] So when they knew that I had their back, but two, they also sold that not only was I helping them with their business, I was running my own business. So to start the year, I was like number three sales person in our, in our, in our, and I and I in our office. Right. Um, and now I've completely shifted. I'm not producing any more at all, but I got that early.
[00:24:13] Buy-in that like, Oh shit, I can do his job and our job then, uh, well, and he's doing it well, then that, that, that it gives my credibility quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's, uh, I would say that's pretty unique because you know, not always, not all great sellers are great managers more often than not most are not that that is, that is accurate most are not.
[00:24:41] Um, and the reason why, tons of people that I've talked to agree with this as well, is that, um, you know, a lot of times, top sellers. Kind of have their way of doing things and, and that's not necessarily the way that's gonna work for everybody. Um, and they don't necessarily have the required skillset to motivate everybody or to coach everybody and things like that, where they just think like, Hey, this is what's worked for me.
[00:25:05] Why the heck? Isn't it working for you? Yeah, well, that's, you gotta be flexible and you gotta be open, uh, at my last company, uh, I was fortunate enough to work with the, the back-to-back-to-back, uh, agent of the year. And, uh, she, she was aging that year out of 800 re uh, agents. So, you know, really prestigious, um, uh, to win so many times in a row.
[00:25:27] And her followup system drove me nuts. Hmm, I didn't get it. It didn't make any sense to me, but who was, although I had been a successful agent who was I to tell her that she was wrong, where I think a lot of managers have been like, no, it'll make you better by doing it this way. I just said, Hey, this is your system.
[00:25:45] Obviously it works. You're very successful. Let's analyze it and see if we can make it 10% better the way you do it. Not the way I do it the way you do it. What, what was it about it that you didn't like? It wasn't man, it was some Excel, a labyrinth. Like I, you know, I like Excel for certain things, but she had it all coded in there and I'm like, man, just use the fucking CRM.
[00:26:06] That's what we paid millions of dollars for, you know, like, but you know what? She had her, she had her system down, so it worked for her. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, Tyler, it's been great talking with you. Um, before I let you go tell folks where they can connect with you, tell them a little bit about your podcast, where they can find that and anything else.
[00:26:25] Yeah. Cool. Khan. I appreciate it, man. It's been great talking with you as well. Uh, my podcast is grind, sell elevate. Um, you can find me on all the major Spotify iTunes, you know, Whatever, whatever channel you listen to this podcast, you will find me there. Um, I'm big on Instagram, just my name, Tiser Evans. Uh, I'm on there every day.
[00:26:45] Um, posting content sales tips, advice. So those are probably the two best places are LinkedIn defined me. Probably easy to find you. Not a lot of Tiser Evans. No, there's not. Yeah. All right. Sales hustlers. Thanks for tuning in today. Um, go ahead and share the podcast with your friends. Subscribe, write us a review and we're listening for your feedback.
[00:27:08] Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host collum Mitchell.
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