Jason Bay joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle Podcast. Jason is an outbound sales coach and trainer for B2B and representatives. He shares how he is very passionate about sales, particularly outbound.
Jason Bay is the Chief Prospecting Officer at Blissful Prospecting. They help sales teams by providing the systems, coaching, and accountability to grow your outbound sales.
He is also a Member of the Modern Sales Pros. Modern Sales Pros is the world's largest community for leaders in sales, operations, enablement, and related disciplines.
To know more about Jason Bay and Blissful Prospecting, please visit their website at https://blissfulprospecting.com/salescast/. You can download helpful tools for free on the website, such as openers.
You can also connect and follow Jason Bay on Linkedin at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasondbay/.
If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.
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Sales Hustle - Episode 42 - Jason Bay
Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for. To up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales prefers, transformed the relationship building process and win their dream clients.
[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is happening in sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode of sales hustle. I've got Jason Bay. He is an outbound sales coach and trainer for B2B reps and sales teams. Jason, thanks for coming on the show today. Yeah, I'm excited, man. The, uh, you know, the tool we're using has like a dramatic countdown too, so it's like, I could feel the anticipation man.
[00:00:53] So I'm, uh, I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. So just give us the cliff notes version of how you got into sales, how you got passionate about outbound and keep it short and brief. So we can jump into the tactical stuff and help, you know, make sure that the sales hustlers get as many nuggets as possible. Yeah. So I got started in sales.
[00:01:13] I'm 31 years old. I got started in sales when I was 18. So I worked for a company called college, works painting. So I went door to door selling house painting services might kind of my first foray into sales. And I was a forensic science major prior to that. So sales was not something I intentionally got into like most salespeople.
[00:01:29] Right. Um, but there's a couple of things I learned that I think are very applicable to B2B selling too. And I still hold these lessons with me today. Uh, one was when I would go door to door and I would hire people to help me do this too. If we focused on neighborhoods where a lot of the houses had peeling pain and needed painting.
[00:01:47] I noticed that there wasn't really anyone interested in talking to me. And that's kind of a big lesson there that just because people need what your product or service does doesn't mean that they value it. Because when I went to neighborhoods where maybe one or two out of every 10 houses needed painting, those people were really interested in talking to me because they actually valued what their home looked like.
[00:02:08] These people drove nicer cars, they had nicer landscaping, other house wasn't falling apart. Like they actually valued along with needing and they could afford, you know, services. So I think that's a big mistake we make sometimes when we're prospecting is that we just go to people. Then we assume that if they need our stuff, they will want to talk to us.
[00:02:25] Right. The other big thing that I learned too, is that when I tried to talk to you, Colin at your door about house painting and Hey, I w I would like to paint your houses. No one was interested in that. They're like, dude, it's fraying. I'm not thinking about that. I do it myself. We hire some, you know, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:02:41] But when I focused more on, Hey, we're going to be in your neighborhood. We're painting a couple of your neighbor's houses. And I was coming by. Cause I noticed he had a little bit of peeling paint on your facia board up there. You're like, Oh really? Yeah. I was like, yeah, I could actually come by and give you a free estimate.
[00:02:55] Yeah. And we could talk a little bit about that. I don't know if you can, are you guys thinking about changing the color, et cetera? So what I learned there is that, you know, prospecting and selling, those are two different skills and a mistake that we can make more prospecting is trying to sell our stuff.
[00:03:08] If we try to sell our stuff, when we're prospecting, we're trying to get people interested in buying stuff. When they're not at a stage where a sale can take place, I'm not going to sell a $4,500 paint job to you on the spot at your door without spending some time with you and building some need. Right.
[00:03:24] So that's the other mistake I see with prospecting now in B2B land, especially is people talk so much about what their product and service does in the cold email, in the LinkedIn message in the cold call, when they should be talking more about what does Colin value, what is he working on right now? And where's he having problems and how do we help people like him with those problems?
[00:03:44] We make it more about helping you do more of what you want to do or helping you avoid things that you want to avoid. And that creates a need for a meeting because I can share stuff. I can share insights with you versus me trying to sell my shit. Yeah. Let's use profanity in your pockets. Yeah, go ahead.
[00:04:02] There's really no rules. So whatever language, whatever language you need to get your point across is fine. Um, all right. So let's, let's break some of that out and, and pick it apart and pull back down a little bit. All right. So something interesting you did about the approach with the people, uh, you know, about painting their, their houses, right.
[00:04:21] Rather than trying to go for the meeting or talk about what you do, which is paint houses. You made the conversation a little bit more about them. You notice something, you brought something to their attention. If they considered that a problem or an issue or something that they cared about fixing that would, which was what would lead you to a much more engaged prospect that needed what you want, which is painting homes.
[00:04:43] Exactly. So you talk about two different approaches that people are doing in prospecting, right? Making the conversation more about what they do, right? Which a lot of people it's very common for people, sellers or people, particularly in outbound sales to be a little bit confused about what problems they solve versus what they do.
[00:05:07] Right. So let's break that out. Like, what is a typical way that you see somebody outbound? What does that look like? And then what is the way of reaching out outbound, whatever channel it is that you guys are talking about and trying to teach folks over there. Well, what do you, uh, let's use an example of mans.
[00:05:23] Like what is an example of something that people that listen to your show sell? We can just use that as an example. I can, I can break it down. Yeah. I mean a lot of, a lot of SAS, you know, so it's a software. Yeah. Yeah. So let's use as an example. So I'm working with a company right now that has a video communication platform.
[00:05:40] You would probably recognize the company, but I'm not allowed to talk about their name. So yeah. Um, you could sell this and say, um, Hey Colin, I was reaching out my name's Jason. I work at this company and I wanted to tell you about a new way that we can help with your phone. We can get your phone working with your video tools and the other conferencing tools you're using so that you have one tool to take care of everything.
[00:06:01] I'd love to tell you more about how our company can help you with your phone needs. Already hung up. Yeah. So now what we can think about is, okay, so if you're an it professional, so there's an exercise that I recommend doing, and if you're not watching this it's I call it the path, the prospect path. So if you start on one side here, if you imagine a graph.
[00:06:24] The Y axis is results. The X axis is time. So on one side you have current state on the left side of the graph, and then as you move towards the right and you go up, that's desired future state. And then when he moved to the left of the graph, when you go down, that's undesired future state. So what we're doing in cell sales essentially is we're helping people to a desired future state or helping them avoid an undesired future state, but it starts with knowing what their current state is.
[00:06:50] So how are they doing things right now? And what are the problems they might have that are associated with that. So if we use this as an example, the it professional, right? The it executive that's in charge of making these decisions. Well, what problems might they be having? Well, one of the problems they might be having, if it's a big company, is they get a lot of support tickets internally from people that can't get the software they're currently using to work properly on their phone or their computer or whatever it might be.
[00:07:16] And that overburdens the it department. With things that are internal, like problem solving and troubleshooting when they would rather be working on building out staff. So if we get to the desired future state, what they would like to be working on is like proactive projects that actually make the company money and save them money.
[00:07:33] The undesired future state is they don't want to be wasting time troubleshooting, just trying to get the stuff. They pay a lot of money for to work. They won't, they don't want to be viewed as a cost center. So once we understand that contrast, now we can talk to that. Right? So our messaging becomes something like.
[00:07:48] And I have a framework for the emails too, that we can talk about, but essentially what you want to do is I want to open up with something personalized to you. And then I want to go into an empathy part. So that's talking about the problem or the thing that you want. And then I can talk about the relevant results.
[00:08:02] So the way that would sound different is, Hey, Collin, um, was under your guys's website. Notice that you guys have a lot of like, you know, digital products and we could name a project or something like that, that you guys are rolling out. It looks like you're doing an awesome job. Right? I want to talk about something that they value that they're spending money on time, effort, et cetera.
[00:08:20] They're working on these projects. One of the things. So this is that empathy piece, the problem piece. One of the things that oftentimes gets in the, Oh God, let's, let's, let's stop there for one on second. And then, and then I just, cause I wanna, I just wanna pull this apart a little bit more right on the personalization because a lot of people get so caught up in the personalization, how personalized to be.
[00:08:39] Does it need to be personalized to the company, to the persona, to the individual? Could you mind breaking that out a little bit? Yeah. So there's three different layers of personalization, right? There's the individual is like kind of the most targeted area. Like what would this person care about? Uh, that's really good, but that can be really hard to find if the person doesn't have stuff on their LinkedIn profile, it's kind of hard to know what they self identify with.
[00:09:01] If they don't put anything out there on social about them. Right. And then we have company that's the next layer. And then we have industry, you know, stuff that's a little bit more general. Um, the individual stuff is going to work the best every single time. So, if you can find something, this person personally cares about, like you're going to go in order of priority.
[00:09:18] Can I find something with the individual know what's going on in the company? Nope. Okay. Well, what can I share that's going on in their industry then? So we're looking for three kind of general themes. I call this like the prospect's values. I want to figure out like what they value and prospecting is about connecting what they value with what you value.
[00:09:35] And if you can paint that picture for them. And create that connection that creates a need for a meeting. It doesn't always have to be about their problems. So there's three things that you can look for when you're personalizing about the individual, the company, or the industry. You can look at their accomplishments.
[00:09:50] So what does this person or company brag about? That's a big indicator of what they care about. Right? We can look at what they create content. On. So what do they educate their customers on? And then we can look at where they spend money. So that could be, are they hiring right now? Do they have big projects coming up?
[00:10:08] Is there M and a activity? Are they expanding? Are they opening new offices? Are they buying out other companies? Whatever it might be. Right. So we're going to look in those areas on the link person's LinkedIn profile and company website, Google news, whatever it might be. And we need to find some sort of way to hook our message, the thing that we can help with with something that they would actually.
[00:10:29] Hmm. So those are the three kind of buckets that we can look at in the personalization piece. And we could talk a whole hour about personalization. There's a whole art to doing that. Does that answer your question though, in terms of like what we would look for and how we prioritize it. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to kind of break out the different passive personalizing and, and I think that you explained that really well.
[00:10:48] So sales, hustlers, you know, Jason gave a real clear what that looks like to the different degrees of the different options. And obviously if you can get, find good content. On the individual then use that. But maybe that, and individual is an active on social media. So it might be a little bit harder. And then the second one would be something about the company.
[00:11:07] Um, and you know, if the company is not active, then the kind of last resort is, you know, maybe something industry specific, maybe a recent trade show that's coming up, maybe something, you know, that's, you know, timing with that industry. Uh, something like that would be a great example. Yeah, I'll give you two pretty simple hacks.
[00:11:26] So even if the person on LinkedIn is not creating a bunch of content, look at their two things. So look in their bio and their work experience. Cause what they'll usually say. Um, is something around, like I worked on X million dollar project and saved X amount of money. Um, I reduced cost by X percentage.
[00:11:42] Like, you'll see all kinds of accomplishments. Cause most people, if you're not in sales, you have a resume on your LinkedIn profile. So if I see something like that call and I can see, Hey, was super impressed with what you've done at ABC project in reducing the cost by 20%, it looks like, you know, um, having profitable projects is really important to you.
[00:12:02] Right. So trying to tie it. So try to tie your hook into what that personalization and that's, that's a really important ingredient. I don't want people to miss miss that because people try and I see it a lot and I'm sure you have to, Jason people try to use personalization just to use personalization and.
[00:12:22] Prospects are too damn smart. They can see through that. You know, they don't care if you just took time to find something and throw that into your template and click send like that does not work, you know, but tying in your hook to the personalization is that, is that, you know, next level stuff that most people aren't doing.
[00:12:42] It's really hard to, you know, and I mean, obviously the companies I work with don't do, don't do the very good job, but that's why they hire me. Right. But most of the companies, I mean, you'd be surprised there's some really big successful companies out there that don't train on this, you know? So it isn't really taught like the way I would think about it.
[00:12:58] I'm really big on empathy and empathy is sitting in the user seat for a second. And thinking about if I'm calling, what's it going to be like receiving this cold email? Yeah. And if you really think about that, you know what, Colin's not going to burn a lot of calories doing. If he doesn't see the connection right away, he's just going to delete the email or archive it or go to the next thing.
[00:13:19] Or if it looks, or if it looks too long, I don't, people are not even going to take the time anymore. Like immediately, if it's multiple paragraphs, just like, Oh, this is junk. Yeah. So I think that there's a couple things that you need to think about what the prospect, how easy am I making it for them to see the connection?
[00:13:37] Like I really have to like, make the connection so obvious to them. You care about this, a problem. I hear with people that care about this. So if we use continue using that example, Um, you know, a problem that we oftentimes hear is that a lot of the tools and the infrastructure that, you know, it departments have set up within their, uh, companies doesn't work that well.
[00:13:59] And it ends up costing a lot of money cause they have to deal with all these unnecessary support tickets. And it's just a bit pain in the butt. Yeah. One of the ways you can help us this. So I mean the two biggest things, right. Is people's time and money. Right. Yeah. So if you can tie that in somehow that's going to make a big impact, but, but really putting yourself in the prospect's shoes where you understand, you know, what their job is, what they do and what they care about.
[00:14:23] Yeah. And by the way, that's a topic that we could talk about too, because I think that people really actually don't understand very much about their prospects it's in it because they haven't done the job of the person reaching out to you. No. And they're never, even if you interview your prospects, you're never really going to deeply understand what it means to like, do that job or have those responsibilities or what that looks like.
[00:14:44] Right. That's hard to do, but, but you could get a good enough sense to integrate that into your messaging, if you could, the percent of the way there. Right. You know, you're never gonna, cause you're not going to do the job, right. Like you said, but you can ask someone like, Hey, what's a typical day. Look like for you.
[00:15:01] Um, one of the questions I also like to ask is, Hey Colin, at any given day, throughout the week, like, what are your top two or three priorities? What are the things that are most top of mind for you? And when we're thinking about prospecting, the mistake that we make as salespeople is what we try to do is make our thing that we're selling a higher priority on the prospect's priority list.
[00:15:22] Hmm, instead of saying, Hey, these are your top two or three priorities. How does this fit in align and help you with what you already want to do? Because I don't know what you call it. No one's ever convinced me to change my priority list. That wasn't a coach that I was paying for. Right. No sales person has reached out to me and convinced me that, Oh God, this thing I wasn't even thinking about is now at the high, you know, the top of my priority list.
[00:15:42] That doesn't happen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not, not initially. Right. But if you can uncover enough information in the meeting to then help them see the impact of not solving that problem, all of a sudden what wasn't a priority now becomes a priority. Yeah. And I would sh I would challenge that a little bit though, and that it was probably something they were already thinking about though.
[00:16:04] Right. They're probably already thinking about revenue and some sort, if you're a VP of sales, they're probably already thinking about like, Uh, my team is reluctant to pick up the phone and there it's probably already something that was like at the top of their party list. Anyways, it's maybe something that was on their mind.
[00:16:20] Yes. Um, but they may not have realized that maybe your product or your service is the solution to helping them solve for that problem is exactly. Yeah. So that's the difference, right? Then realizing that you are a person that can help them, but it was still something that they wanted to do anyways. You know, so, yeah.
[00:16:38] Um, we've kind of gone all over the place, man. I don't know where you want to continue with this, but that's, that's kind of like the approach, the personalization, the empathy, the relevant result is, well, here's how we help companies like yours. Right. Are you interested in chatting, interested in hearing more cool.
[00:16:51] If I send a case study over that's that's kind of what the messaging sounds like. Yeah. And I liked that. Uh, I personally am a fan of short copy. Yeah. Uh, I'm, I'm a fan of personalization. I'm a fan of even keeping the messaging very personable and informal, almost like you're text messaging, a friend. You know, sometimes depends on your texting style.
[00:17:18] Some people I'm like, yeah. Don't say BRB in the email. Don't say LOL. No, don't use haha. I'm not opposed to throwing a couple of emojis in there though. Yeah, I like emojis. Definitely. Um, I think you got to get to know your audience a little bit, but yeah. Point there being calling, right. It's be conversational.
[00:17:37] You know, a hack I have for that. And this is really simple. Read your email out loud. Pretend like I cold called Colin. And I'm going to read this email and if it sounds clunky and weird for me to read out loud, I need to adjust it. It needs to sound like how I would read it. It's gotta be casual. It's gotta be conversational.
[00:17:52] And the general rule of thumb that I use. Is under 120 words, ideally three to five sentences. So your paragraph should be no longer than a sentence or two. You shouldn't have these long paragraphs. It should be, uh, personalizations one or two lines, empathy, one line relevant result, one line call to action, and then you're good to go.
[00:18:10] It's really easy to skim. There's multiple paragraph breaks in there. Yeah, et cetera. All right. No, that's nice. Thanks for breaking out that, that kind of formatting, cause that's important too. Now what's your take on, on, on using video in the first touch or using video when or at all? Yeah. Video has got a lot of different, uh, really awesome use cases.
[00:18:29] So if you sell something where you can visualize the problem to the prospect, I like using it in the first email. So I'll give you an example. There's this guy, Lou, we interviewed on our podcast, um, and he works at a company called channel advisors. So the problem they help with is companies getting outranked by their competition on Amazon listings.
[00:18:48] So if they sell products on Amazon, so what he'll do is he'll go to the company's Amazon page and you'll do a video and you'll say, Hey, Colin, not sure if you knew, but nine one one, dude, you're being outranked right now. By your competitors. Uh, there's two competitors above you. They're getting 90% of the buys on this page because people don't even see your thing pop up.
[00:19:09] So you can visually show the problem to someone. I work with another company that sells essentially their outsource customer service, although they don't like to be branded like that, but it's a way for companies to, um, when they have fluctuations and customer requests, they can outsource that instead of having to staff up themselves and you can turn it on and off.
[00:19:26] It's pretty cool. But what they look for on the website is, Hey, notice that you don't have 24 seven customer support. Did you know that most buyers are looking outside of traditional business hours to buy stuff. And if they don't find what they're looking for within X amount of minutes, they'll go to their competition.
[00:19:44] There's so many stats on this that Shopify has put out. So I'm able to visually show the prospect the problem that they have. That's a really, really cool way to use video. Yeah. So, I mean, you're showing them, you're using that personalization and empathy together very, very well integrated with an approach like that.
[00:20:00] Yeah. So if you were S you know, you sell podcast services, what I would be doing is like I say, Hey, I noticed your top two or three competitors all have podcasts. And they're talking about these topics. Here's some of the things I think you could talk about to actually build some of your audience and hit your marketing goals of doing this or drive extra down or whatever.
[00:20:17] Right. So that's, that's one way to use video. Um, the other thing too, is I like to, I call it, follow the engagement. So with your sequencing, if you're using a tool like outreach, SalesLoft, Apollos, and vanilla soft, there's a bunch of them. Um, you can say, Hey, if the person opens up the email that I send them in that first one, I'm going to create a task for me to send them a video or create a task for me to call them.
[00:20:40] So then the second email that you sent has a video in it, and you only send videos to people that are opening up your emails. Right? Cause it takes a lot of effort to record a hundred videos if you're reaching out to, but you could send 20 videos to people that open up your emails a couple of times.
[00:20:55] Cause those people are probably gonna be more interested. Yeah, no. I mean, it takes a lot of time to create a custom video for on the first touch. So I liked the idea of either maybe keeping it, I mean, the first, if you're going to go personalized. You know, maybe on the first touch is not, is not the right answer, but following up on the second touch with your opens with video is, is a great way.
[00:21:17] I actually seen a tool. I haven't checked it out yet, but where you can create kind of a somewhat personalized video where you can just do one video and then you just rerecord people's names and he just fires off a bunch of videos. I, I know what tool you're talking about. I don't want to talk shit about them on your podcast, but like I've seen those and it doesn't really sink in the name that well.
[00:21:38] It sounds really weird at the beginning. Cause it doesn't match your mouse. Mm. Mm it's a little weird. I would, I would just, I would try not to do it too much at scale and say, Hey, if I only have time to record 10 videos, let's just make sure those 10 videos on the highest priority people that are most likely to read, respond to it.
[00:21:57] Yeah. Or the higher, the higher, um, Quality of people, right? Like you have your maybe lower, lower value targets that you're going after, where you're not going as personalized. You're not using video, but you have your, you know, your dream list. Those are the people, you know, that you're going to spend more time with doing more, to stand out, to be different, to be, you know, hyper purpose, personalized or whatever that looks like.
[00:22:19] Um, you know, I think the problem is people try to. Kind of apply one method to all that they do. And it's not, you know, you can have different approaches to different targets. Yeah, absolutely. Like, think about how you compartmentalize your life, dude. Could you imagine if you put as much effort into every part of your life as you do your business, there's not enough time.
[00:22:37] Like there's not enough time to do that, so you don't have to go like fucking all out. Like I want to be in the top 1% of my thing in everything that you do. There's just not any time to do that. So it's like be, be, be practical, you know? Um, the third use case I'd say for video and there's, there's a couple more ones, but I'm just sending a welcome video message to someone after they connect with you on LinkedIn is a really scary one.
[00:22:59] And the thumbnail you, uh, share your screen and you put it on the person's LinkedIn profile. So the thumbnail is your little face there on their profile. So it shows that it's like a personalized video. Hey, Colin. Thanks for accepting the Lincoln connection requests. The reason I wanted to connect is I hear a lot of people.
[00:23:16] Like you have problems like this, and we created some resources to help check out the next comment here. I'll I'll share some of those links or, Hey, are you interested in chatting about how we might build to help you with that? Yeah, that's a really good thing too. Yeah, that's a great use case. So let's, let's switch gears a little bit here, um, and kind of take it home with using the phone.
[00:23:35] Sure. What do you want to talk about with the phone? So, yeah, my, my mine too. Um, so we talked about email, we talked about LinkedIn, we talked about video. Um, I have a ton of respect for people that have done what you did, which is knocking on doors. That is a tough gig. I, you know, um, I started, you know, over 10 years ago, you know, cold calling with, uh, you know, Half-assed script and a phone and a list of names and a CRM that didn't work, you know?
[00:24:07] Um, but I, I never, I never did knock on doors and I think that you probably learn a lot through that. So let's talk about. Using the phone properly to prospect. Um, what are the common mistakes people are making, using the phone that you see and, and let's talk about some, some remedies to those. So I think the first part is the mindset behind what you're trying to accomplish on the phone.
[00:24:33] So a lot of people deal with call reluctance is the number one thing I hear from any VP of sales or chief revenue officer I talked to is. I always ask them, what is one thing they'd love their team to do more. And they say, pick up the phone and ask them why they're not doing it. They say everyone's afraid of picking up the phone, right.
[00:24:46] Even the really big companies, it's this sort of all the way around. So with call reluctance, we got to think about where that's coming from. And if you go in, so there's a couple of reasons why that happens. So if you go in and don't think about your messaging, what we've spent the last 30 minutes talking about, and it's all about you.
[00:25:02] Of course, you're going to feel really weird when you talk to people over the phone and it's all about you and then they reject you. Like you're giving them a way to reject you. Yep. So you've really got to reframe that message. The other part is the mindset that you should go on with is, you know, when I ask big groups of people, what's the, what are you trying to accomplish in a cold call?
[00:25:20] What do you think they say. Book a meeting book, a meeting, and I say, no, that's actually not what you're trying to accomplish on a cold call. That's a really good outcome, but you know what an acceptable outcome is also that you don't set a meeting because you don't want to waste time with that prospect.
[00:25:35] So if we kind of go in with, instead of assumptiveness of, I need something from you, Colin, if you kind of go in with curiosity and say, you know what, I know a little bit about Colin, he's got a podcast, he's doing all this other stuff. I'm wondering if he's having a problem that I might be able to help with.
[00:25:50] And you go in with the mindset of, I just need to start a conversation. I don't need anything from this person. I don't know if you've seen super troopers. There's a scene in there where he's like, desperation is a stinky cologne, John, right. Desperation is a stinky cologne. So if you come in needing something from people, they can feel that.
[00:26:08] Yeah. I mean, we could talk and then that takes call reluctance, but those are the two areas that I typically focus on. And, and, and that desperation comes out in, in, in your tone and in, in, in how pushy you are and you know how you're just trying to make it more about you and, and get that prospect to say yes to the meeting.
[00:26:26] Um, but also a lot. I love that you started with the fact that it's mindset, right? Like what expectation do you have when you pick up the phone? Right. And if you have little or no, like I'm just, there's I got a list of people that might need my help. And my job is just to find out if there's people that is, if that results in a meeting, great.
[00:26:42] And I'm going to weed out the people that absolutely don't need my help for a good reason. Um, and, and I think that that's a great way to get yourself in the mind mindset to pick up the phone. And, you know, I like to tell folks like, have fun with it. Like, you know, make it, make it something you enjoy doing.
[00:26:59] Like, I love. I love making cold calls. I still make cold calls three to four times a week myself. Um, so I put it out in three to five hours at least every week. Um, and, uh, when you have that right mindset, it can be fun. And then you're not, you're not so shocked when you get rejected. Um, and, and, and that, you know, that letting the rejection affect you is just going to.
[00:27:24] Build on that call, you know, call reluctance. Yeah. And rejection is something that is going to happen. I think it's more about accepting it and not trying to like, not get rejected or like avoided. It's like. Um, it's going to happen in like, you need to separate the rejection from who you are as a person.
[00:27:40] Cause a lot of people feel like this person is rejecting me because most people are getting into sales. There's a lot of good-looking people that get into sales, right? And they're not used to not getting what they want. You know what I'm saying? Or they're very accomplished people in high school, college, whatever.
[00:27:55] And they're used to getting what they want. And that's not how it works all the time. So the w if we, we talked about the actual cold call itself, um, the biggest thing I think you can reframe is this people try to go and really assumptive, and they try to pin the prospect into a corner where they have to say yes, if you actually step back and say, you know what, I'm going to allow Colin to have his autonomy.
[00:28:17] I'm going to allow him to opt in. To this, I'm a really big fan of permission-based openers, Sandler selling calls them upfront contracts in a permission-based opener. There's essentially three parts to it. There's an, I'm going to empathize with the person and talk to what they might be thinking right on the spot.
[00:28:33] I'm going to give a time request. And then I'm going to ask for permission. So it's a, Hey, Colin, Jason with blissful prospecting. Um, Hey, I know you weren't expecting this call, man, but is it cool if I get 30 seconds, I can tell you why I'm calling. You can let me know if you want to keep chatting eight or nine times out of 10, people are going to agree in some form there you're going to laugh or chuckle and be like, okay, you got 30 seconds.
[00:28:52] Go ahead. Right. So we can do all kinds of different variations of that. Like the empathize part. If I'm making calls in the morning, I'll say, um, Hey, Colin and other country, first thing in the morning here, and you've probably got a lot of meetings scheduled the rest of the day. So I'll make this quick.
[00:29:05] You got a minute. I could tell you why I'm calling. You can let me know if you want to keep chatting. So come up with your own kind of variation, but allow the prospect to opt in. Now you've bought yourself 30 seconds. Well, they're actually going to listen to you versus when's calling, going to shut up so I can hang up on him, right?
[00:29:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then that way, you know, if they say, no, I don't, it's like not as big of a deal. And, uh, and if they say no and. They have a good reason for saying no, you don't have to call them again. If they say no and they don't have a good reason, then give them some cool off time and call them back again.
[00:29:37] Yeah. They'll forget about you by the next week, man. The people you're calling are getting called so much that they're either not going to remember the person that's talked with them for 15 seconds from some company they don't recognize, you know? Um, so that's, that's like kind of the intro. And then from there, the person gives you 30 seconds.
[00:29:53] You're going to do that same messaging format that I shared earlier. That's part of the reply method, which is an acronym. We only talked about the R E and the P, but I'm going to open up with personalization, empathy, relevant results, and that covers the intro of the call. And then I'm going to do one more permission based task.
[00:30:09] So you can either then ask for the meeting right there on the spot, if you want to. Some people like doing that. Well, my preference is, Hey, Colin is a cool fancy two, three questions, and then you can decide if this is even relevant for you. And usually people will say, yeah, sure. And then we get into the middle part of the call, the hook.
[00:30:23] This is where we're going to ask questions and question stack. Um, I don't know how much time we have to go into that, uh, techniques specifically, but question stacking, essentially, it looks like this. Uh, the problem with most questions is that they're, they're just like, they make you look really dumb when you ask them.
[00:30:38] So if I ask a question like, Hey Colin, what's your biggest sales challenge right now? You're going to be like, dude, if you're a sales, like where do I start, man? It's like, no, I don't got time for this man. Like. Where do I go with that question? But if I think more specifically around a problem that Colin might be having, I can ask specific questions and add context.
[00:30:57] So the stacking of the question is adding context prior to the question. And a problem is a way that I can add context. Uh, Hey, Colin. Um, you know, I talked to a lot of sales leaders and when I asked them what they would love their team to do more of, most of them say pick up the phone more. But the thing they're dealing with is call reluctance.
[00:31:16] Uh, I'm just, I'm curious, like, how does your team do over the phones? Yeah. Or how do you feel like your team does over the phone? Right. And usually what they'll say is like, yeah, actually we deal with that a lot, but you know, they pick up the phone. All right. Okay. Now I have something to kind of work with and talk about.
[00:31:31] Right. And then I can stack a few more questions in around problems that they might be having. Um, another variation of that is I can do education for the context. And then question. So if I was selling podcasts, I'm going to totally wing this part. Cause I don't know what the stats are, but you could say something like, um, Hale a lot of the podcasts out there, um, in the B2B land, about 83% of buyers in your industry, listen to podcasts and really curious.
[00:31:59] Do you guys have a podcast or have you started thinking about how you could reach your audience on this channel? No, we haven't really thought about that. Interesting. Well, that's exactly why I'm calling. I noticed that a few of your competitors are using podcasts. And like I said, most of your audience, according to so-and-so, uh, stat is, is listening to podcasts.
[00:32:19] That's where they consume this information. I love to share with you two or three things that I see your competitors doing, that we're helping our clients do so that they can engage their audience on this platform. That's something you'd be interested in talking about. Cool. Okay. So like that, that hook there, the way that I connect it to the close of the call, so we had the intro, the hook, the close, and I'm just going to briefly summarize what I heard from Yukon.
[00:32:41] Hey, so what I heard is that you don't have a podcast, you're having some of these challenges, et cetera, et cetera. Um, did I get that right? Did I miss anything? Nope. You got it. Cool. Let's schedule a time to chat. Confirm it. And then the last piece is that last piece is so important because so common people, you know, write down or take notes based on assumptions they've made based on what prospects have said, and it may not fully map.
[00:33:03] Yeah. And I want you calling to be like, no, actually you didn't quite get this right. Actually want this. I'd be like, okay, cool. I'm glad I asked you. And that becomes the agenda for the call. So when you're scheduling and say, Hey, so I have your email down as this, I'm going to send an invite to you on the agenda for the call is going to be one thing that you're really focused on right now is like reaching your audience in a new medium building brand or whatever it is.
[00:33:21] So we'll make sure to talk about that. And I can talk about how we're helping other companies like you as well. So I'm using what they say as the agenda for the call. And I'm repeating back. That's like showing that I'm actually listening, by the way, this is a complete pattern interrupt because every sales person, 99% of them, that cold call this person.
[00:33:38] They're just going to go on and on and pitch their stuff the entire time. Here's what we do. Here's why we're so awesome. I'd love to share. It should ask for the meeting pitch. It asked for the meeting, their pitch into like why or what or what we'll be talking about that you actually care about as a prospect.
[00:33:52] Yeah, it's not very conversational. It's not a very collaborative, it's not, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's the same thing that they're used to dealing with every time. And it's, it's, it's definitely a pattern interrupt. Um, Jason, tons of great stuff in here. Tons of nuggets for all the sales hustlers. Why don't you tell folks what you have for them?
[00:34:11] Tell them a little bit more about yourself, your podcast, and anything else you want to let folks know? Yeah. So I put something together for you guys. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, well, okay, that's a lot. What Jason just shared, like, how do I actually apply to this? I put together a PDF for you guys with seven prospecting place.
[00:34:27] So these are things that you can literally start using immediately, like openers for your cold calls lines. You can use your emails, et cetera, and you can grab firstname.lastname@example.org slash sales cast. And it's a free download. It's a, I think a three or four page PDF that you can pick up with us prospecting place.
[00:34:43] And then in terms of, you know, what we do, we, we primarily help, uh, individuals and then companies with their prospecting. So if you're wanting some help applying some of this stuff, um, what I would do is, um, go to our website was full prospect and.com. There's a ton of free content. Um, just on the website, we've got a podcast where all we talk about is, uh, prospecting.
[00:35:03] I post daily on LinkedIn. So there's videos snippets from those podcasts, all that stuff. There's a ton of free stuff that you can check out. And then if you want to look into some of the. You know, ways that you can, you know, work with me, uh, to get some help that's on there as well. All right. Awesome.
[00:35:17] Thanks so much, Jason, for coming on sales houses, we'll include all that in the show notes for you. If you're listening to the podcast, please subscribe, write a review and share with your friends. We're listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level?
[00:35:37] If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review. And share the podcast with your friends.