Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Dec. 11, 2020

Episode #31 S1-EP31 Book More Meetings with Tito Bohrt

Tito Bohrt joins Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Tito shares his story on how he got into sales and how passionate he is about sales. In this episode, he talks about building an outbound playbook and some helpful sales takeaways.

Tito Bohrt is the CEO of AltiSales. He is building the best company for SDRs. World-class training, the best management in the world, and a team of sales operations allow us to execute Sales Development like no other team.

He is also the Interim VP of Sales, Investor, and Advisor at Maripipe. Marpipe is the first multivariate testing platform for creativity. 

You can find out more about Tito Bohrt and connect with him at LinkedIn,

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Episode 31

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right. What is happening in sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode of sales hustle. Uh, I've got t-to Bort with us today. He is the CEO of ALTE sales, and we are going to talk about building an outbound playbook, and I have a good feeling that we are going to have a lot of fun.

[00:00:51] Tito, welcome to sales house. So how are you doing. Thanks man. I'm doing great. I'm excited. Just so to help people, the short version, how you got into sales and how you got so passionate about, you know, working training and, you know, teaching people outbound. Yeah. So I was lucky enough to drop out of college to start LT sales eight years ago.

[00:01:10] And, uh, it was a very interesting concept. Back in the day, we had this idea that people in the U S uh, right out of college BDRs, SDRs that are starting their careers. There's two things they want, they want a career. Or they want to travel on how fun and enjoy their twenties. So he's set up a team in LA Paz.

[00:01:28] Bolivia only hired a bunch of recent college grads and we ship them out for six months to do an SDR BDR bootcamp. Out of LA Paz, Bolivia. And then we do the second bootcamp in Costa Rica and the third one in, uh, in Mexico. And there was a ton of fun. Um, so I was running those teams and nowadays I run a company it's very interesting.

[00:01:47] We're a fully remote company, even pre pandemic. We're a fully remote company since, uh, 2016. And, uh, we have employees in eight countries or everybody remote. It used to be co-working space. Now, everybody working from home, obviously. Uh, but we have been specializing in outbound for many, many years. And we love the motion and we think it is the most profitable and most amazing way to grow a business.

[00:02:13] But it's also pretty hard to learn at the beginning. Once you crack the code, you unleash millions of dollars in revenue, but cracking the code in the early days is a real hard part. All alright, so much good stuff to peel back on there. Um, So let's talk about cracking the code on outbound because that's something that's different for everybody.

[00:02:39] Right. So what does that process look like of? Let's say somebody who's just getting started on an outbound team, or if it's a leader that has either. Not really invested much time and energy into outbound and wants to start to create an outbound strategy. Um, let's start there and then we can also talk a little bit about maybe somebody who's really has outbound and just missing the bark Mark and has not cracked the code yet.

[00:03:05] Yeah. And I think that the story is similar here, because what I like to do is I like to start with the end in mind on the end is always revenue, right? We all want revenue, the race to build, uh, BDRs SDRs, a marketing motion on the sales motion. So all like go to market strategy in that has revenue in mind.

[00:03:21] So what I try to do is kind of like. Start taking steps back from revenue. So what happens before you actually get the money while you sign a contract? Well, before you sign a contract, what needs to happen while you're working on paperwork? Well, before somebody even decides to work on paperwork, you only work on paperwork with one company.

[00:03:39] So the step before that is they got to choose you against the other three to six competitors that there might be evaluating or two to 10 competitors, you're going to call it a bigger range. Right. And then before they pick you, they got to realize they have a problem. Now, when you think about it, the inbound leads, they all have realized that they have some sort of problem.

[00:03:59] Anybody who is sending a demo request is telling you, Hey, I have something that I need to fix. I believe that what you do fix us, what I'm trying to fix, let's chat. So we can either align ourselves on if we're aligned, it creates an opportunity, or we decide that we're not aligned on my problem. Your solution don't match with one another.

[00:04:20] And then this is just a dead lead. Now on outbound is a little bit different because on outbound, they haven't decided they got to solve a problem. And I actually split the world in three buckets. I don't call it inbound, outbound. I call it inbound, warm, outbound, cold, outbound, and the way I. Thinking in my head is inbound.

[00:04:37] Is anybody who's, who's expecting an immediate response from you. A demo requests, our contact us form, uh, somebody that is on your chat functionality, things like that. Then the warm out bounce all day webinar, attendees, trade show leads. Anybody who has brand familiarity, but they're not raising their hand.

[00:04:55] And then they cold outbounds are the ones that have never heard of your company, or you get a cold call on trying to get into a meeting. Right? So if we continue taking steps back from having a problem before you have, before you come inbound to having a problem, somebody can reach out to you through a warm outbound, you attend a webinar or somebody calls you like, Hey, I am with XYZ company.

[00:05:18] We love to chat about X. Yeah, you get some success there and at least people have a good notion of what they're going to try to, uh, what they're going to be talking about. Huh? What are those calls? How are those calls handled differently on warm, outbound than cold outbound? Uh, how much of a difference are they?

[00:05:34] Because yeah, if they attended a webinar, maybe they fill out a form they're on the email list they've been nurtured. Maybe they know the company to some extent maybe. Um, but how differently do you think those outbound. Should be treated than ones that have never heard from you don't know who you are having attended any events haven't gotten any emails, uh, or maybe have gotten emails, but they got caught in spam.

[00:05:57] They didn't read them. They never replied. Yeah, I think the emotion is different, right? So if we start with the inbound guys, that's easy to understand how they're different because they're requesting a form. It's almost like admin work. You're just trying to schedule the meeting. Just verify it's a good company and a good target calendar.

[00:06:12] Just schedule it on the warm, outbound on the cold outbound. It's I like to treat them very similarly. I try to not distinguish them too much. I think it's a real bad practice to call you and say, Hey, call in. You actually. At the end of the webinar, I want to invite you to a demo, a lot of assumptions. They made a lot of assumptions just because they're on a list or filled out a form or whatever the case is.

[00:06:38] And that kind of takes me to another point. Cause I know we're, we're kind of talking about outbound, but we've, we've talked about inbound a little bit too, and there's a lot of assumptions that can be made on inbound as well, where they skip steps because they're like, Hey, they have a problem. They're interested.

[00:06:52] Let's go straight to demo. And that's a huge mistake. Not that's a huge mistake. It's where you end up with a bunch of inaccurate fluff in your pipeline. That's right. So the inbound, who would you actually get to do is you get to ask questions about their perceived problem. Hey, what do you, why did you come inbound?

[00:07:10] How did you find us? What is it that you're trying to accomplish? Where are you today? What is failing? What is, what is the pain or opportunity? Right. Why is that important? What is the priority? What's the impact, if you don't solve that, correct. Move on. How big of an impact does that make in the business?

[00:07:27] Right. All great assumptions on outbound the air and looking for anything you're calling them. So the difference in hours, you get to educate them on, to give you a better education with a lower customer stories, right. Uh, in, in a meaningful way. So if your biggest customers at and T. You can go out about the Verizon and say, Hey guys, I work with, we work with the marketing department at, at and T.

[00:07:52] And what I want to do today is just share some insights about how they're running their online marketing. They decide their ads, these in these particular ways, because they know their market is this, this, this, and this. And they do X and this, this, this, and this other way, because they're trying to accomplish YZ and blah, blah, blah.

[00:08:09] And by looking at your ads, I see that there's room for improvement for you guys. How are you guys designing your ads? And other like, Holy shit, that's incredible insightful information about my competitor. I am now learning something from this sell strip. I would pay you for this information because you're providing the insights that I can't get anywhere else about my competitors strategy or competitors workflows.

[00:08:35] And it doesn't need to be maybe marketing is a bad area because it's, it's really competitive. But if you're talking about how they manage their like retail stores, Right. It's not necessarily a competitive advantage in the market where if you work with, at and T at and T might be pissed, if you working with Verizon and you both have, you handled the marketing for both, but if you manage like employee communication, But, Hey, here's how at and T communicates with our frontline employees of the retail stores and you sell the same thing to Verizon at and T doesn't care.

[00:09:04] It's not a competitive product, but, well, let's, let's, let's, let's pick that apart a little bit, right? Because there's some strategy that's going into that. Like you're, you're talking about, you know, really taking a good look at your, your, your customers, right. At your best customers, and then approaching similar.

[00:09:22] Companies based on that to sound much more educated on the outbound, right? Because you're going to pique, people's interests. Like if their competitors, you know, they want to know what they're doing or they want to outdo what they're doing. Um, but is that, does that require some macro research does or is that really just making some assumptions, uh, you know, or, or being a little bit misleading about.

[00:09:48] In your outreach? No, I'd say it's, it's usually easy. So like awesome. I'll throw the SDR motion, right? I'll set an SDR. You should know who your top 20 clients are like top of mind. Right? So like, if you work with Starbucks, you shouldn't know that. So that when he called Dunkin donuts, that's who you name drop, right?

[00:10:08] Don't don't name drop Microsoft to Dunkin donuts. Right? You gotta be smart about who you name drop and also. It's obviously a good idea that if Starbucks is a huge client, chances are the Dunkin donuts and McDonald's are likely going to be good clients for whatever you do. They run a similar business model in a very similar industry with similar transaction costs with, you know, similar everything else.

[00:10:34] So usually those are. Those are good ideas. So I think  cons of, of specific name-dropping companies versus being, not as specific about company, but specific about industry and industry lingo and language. I don't think it makes a ginormous difference. I think it's like there's so many other things that matter so much more that I don't want to get too deep into that topic.

[00:10:58] I mean, I think it's up to the STRs preference, like is one I'm going to convert seven X more than the other. No. Well, here's what I'll tell you. Like it's not only important of the SDR namedrop, the right account. Are they calm and accept a meeting, but when they accept a meeting, the house will deliver on the promise.

[00:11:14] You can call. Dunkin donuts, get them into a meeting. And then they're like, yeah, I'm getting into a meeting because you're going to show me some insights about how, uh, you know, Starbucks does employee communication. Right? So how, how big of a problem is that on the front lines with the SDR, BDR is kind of promising more of an educational type of conversation.

[00:11:37] And then the prospects ends, ends up in more of a sales pitch conversation. Well, I think you're, I think that's the biggest part. I think that companies that figure out the outbound motion is because they know how to, how to make sure that their AEs know that the inbound on the outbound motion is different.

[00:11:54] They're well-trained on it. So an inbound lead will be handled with what are you trying to accomplish? What are the pain points that you have? What is the opportunity? What is the KPIs? What does the impact, what are you trying to move? Right? And then how do I align myself to your goals? And outbound is the opposite.

[00:12:11] I'm trying to educate you on how, the way that you're working today, isn't working. If you continue with the status, cool, your competition is going to eat your lunch. And what I want to show you is how they're already eating your lunch. And I could show you that I'd Verizon, you're losing market in certain areas because, um, when at and T rolls out a new plan, the communication from HQ to the retail stores is in minutes rather than in days.

[00:12:39] And I know that for various innocent days, because you don't have the same communication platform or like app or whatever, then like I can show you that and I can be like, You guys both re like put together a new plan and the other guys like, got it going so much faster. And then they earn 2% extra market share in the Miami Fort Lauderdale area on that might mean $3 million in revenue extra for this year or whatever.

[00:13:06] That's huge. No, it, it is. And how, how often do you see people missing the Mark of going that deep? Often, right. Like, I think that if you look at the companies that have IPO, if you look at how Okta on Salesforce and like Palo Alto networks do outbound sales development, and outbound presentations, they have a very clear divide into how do you handle an inbound?

[00:13:33] How do you handle it an outbound? But if you look at how like startups that are in series a are managing inbound versus outbound, A lot of times it's the same spray and pray is the same thing. They're just, Hey, thanks for taking the meeting. Uh, we are blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's what I want to show you.

[00:13:50] And here's my product. And he can click here and do X on the loo, like a product training rather than an insightful, right? And then the prospect's just scratching their head. I told the BDR that we don't care about that feature, right. That doesn't apply to us. We don't care about that. We don't need that.

[00:14:06] I was here because I was still hoping to learn something. That's right. That's right. So, one thing that I think it's quite important to distinguish is on the outturn motion. The first thing you want to sell them is not all your product, but all your category. So if you are, let's say sales officer outreach, your first meeting, shouldn't be about like, here's why sales is better than outreach.

[00:14:30] If you're going outbound are there right now, they don't have a sales engagement tool. They're like, what the hell is sales engagement? You just go and say, Hey, let me tell me why companies whose sales engagement companies have realized that they get a lot of inbound leads on. They even have cold outbound leads.

[00:14:44] I think they want to work him, but they want to build a process that maximizes the chances of a response. So they've decided to now build a sequence of steps that each lead should go through in order to be worked properly. Due to that. There's a new category called sales engagement, which allows you to create a series of steps across phone calls, emails, voicemails, and LinkedIn, how's it ever happened to you that he get a hundred leads and some of them get five calls and someone gets get zero calls.

[00:15:14] And I guarantee you that marketing people who don't have a sales engagement tool will be like, yup. We've had that happen. The sales team never follows up on the leads. You're like, great. How are you going to hold them accountable? They're like, Oh, we've got to check manually. We're like, Oh, imagine if we had a tool where you can just drop him in and you ensure that every lead is worked.

[00:15:37] I need to know exactly what called this position. They had it. It's all sync with CRM. You can get the most value from it and buy leads. That'd be like, that's amazing. I need that. I like the concept or they're like, okay, great. Would you like to. And the next call, since you're liking this, I can show you how another company similar to you is utilizing the technology to build a few sequences that maximize response rates.

[00:16:00] So, okay. So that's interesting. So you're saying selling them on your category, selling them on, not in a shear product, not you specifically, but the idea of using the category, that, of what you do now, what about if they already have something in place? Like yeah. We've heard of sales engagement, we have sales engagement, and we're pretty happy with it then where do you go?

[00:16:23] Right. Right. So usually, uh, that's what I would call a warm outbound cold outbound has no idea about your category. You got an informal category, a warm outbound now has category recognition. They might be using a competitor, but if they took a meeting, you just want to ask him why. Hey, so you're using sales loft, I'm with outreach.

[00:16:42] I know where to reach out to you, but what peaked your interest on taking this call? They are not going to take a meeting if on a scale from one to 10 they're 10 out of 10 happy let's sell solved. There's going to come and say well, so, so you're talking about the conversation with the AA once they're on the call, correct.

[00:16:58] But shouldn't that have already been uncovered by the BDR prior to the hopping on the phone? Yeah. Likely. So. Because a, the BDR, the STR can do a great job, right. To get the meeting, to get them to say yes, but that's only half the battle. Like getting them to the meeting to say, yes, that's part of it.

[00:17:17] Getting them to actually show up care enough to actually show up to the meeting. That's another part. But also the handoff is crucial and important. Documenting everything that was talked about, validating, you know, not a lot, a lot of place. A lot of times where I see people make mistakes is. They make a lot of assumptions based on what the prospect said.

[00:17:34] Prospect said this. So that means that, and then they document that and that's not necessarily what the prospect mean or was it really deeply validated before the handoff? Yeah. If you can't have call recording technology on every call, you should have it. I recommend it, uh, right. Make sure it's legally compliant that you're only recording, that stays where you can record whatever else.

[00:17:53] But if you can pass over the call recording directly to the AA that's best. If there was any email communication, pass that over to the AA. That's best. Um, so yeah, on there the, again, if they have a competitive product, just ask him. What, what prompted you to take a call? I mean, I can tell you why outreach is so much better than the SalesLoft.

[00:18:11] Uh, and there are specific areas where I can pinpoint and say here, here, here, and here, we're better on, here's why that matters. But I want to hear from you, like, where is Salesforce falling short? Maybe it's super simple. Maybe they're like, yeah. Their customer support sucks. Fuck you hate it. Yeah. You're like, yeah.

[00:18:28] Okay. Awesome. Sometimes it's sometimes it's even, yeah. Simple things like that. So, but, but I think the key point to all the sales officers tuning in and listening to this is like making it about your prospect, right. Making them asking good questions so that they explain the problem. Don't lead them in the way that you want them to go based on some assumptions, because it's really important that they tell you what the problem is.

[00:18:51] And then you frame the conversation. Around that, everything that you say after that, everything that you do after that in the sales process is framed about the things that they said, that our struggle with it's something as simple as like their support sucks, their billing is confusing. Like whatever the case is, it might be something really small and petty like that.

[00:19:08] And you're framing your conversation around moving the sale forward based on what they told you. Yeah, give me, give me for like the sake of some of my, uh, fans and listeners that might be coming in here. What are some assumptions that you think are often made that are incorrectly made in, in discovery or in the handoff or by the ag or the BDR?

[00:19:29] I heard, you mentioned, like don't make assumptions, don't make assumptions. Don't make assumptions. Like, give me some examples. What are assumptions that you hear that you hate? There's a lot of, you know, a lot of assumptions are made based on what they think, you know, people care about, right? Like if a, if a BDR or AE is like, Oh, this is our newest feature, everybody's going to care about it.

[00:19:46] Everybody's wants wanted this. And the prospect that you are talking about may not even need that, that feature may not even care about that feature. That's one example. Right? So not, and, and it even goes deeper than that. So if a prospect makes a point of saying like, Oh, we won't use, you know, maybe they're in a particular industry.

[00:20:03] It was like, we will not use call recording. We just won't, we don't want it. We want to make sure nothing's recorded. Like, who knows, maybe they're lawyers, maybe they're legal, maybe that's, you know, medical, whatever the case is. They don't want to use call recording because they feel for whatever reason, they don't want to do that.

[00:20:18] Right. So not talking about call recording and your demo, not talking about call recording, but also not just not talking about it, but also going back and saying, Hey, I know I'm not going to show you this piece because you mentioned it's not relevant to you. So making a point to show that you actually paid attention, you took notes in your intentionally.

[00:20:35] Customizing the conversation, the framework and the demo around what they, you know, showing them what they, what matters, skipping past things that don't and acknowledging that. So I think that's a common, you know, thing is like, Oh, we're now integrated with HubSpot and it's like, they use Salesforce and you didn't listen to the call recording and you didn't show up prepared.

[00:20:53] So they're not going to make it into your pipeline because you look like a jackass. That's right. I love that. I call that actively listening. Right. Which is, listen on repeat back. What do you learned? Right. Hey, before I move forward, you mentioned X, Y Z one two three. So I go, no, it's here. You guys have 22 SDRs and you're on Salesforce and you currently use sales soft.

[00:21:14] You're not recording the calls and you think support kind of sucks. Uh, Anything else I'm missing for cell soft, anything about analytics, perhaps they do like to, to think about, or you think is better or worse. They're like, no, no, we're happy. You're like, okay. So let me cover some of these points for us that you're interested in.

[00:21:33] And then if we have extra time, do I have your permission to spend another five to 10 minutes to show you maybe a couple of other reasons why other customers prefer outreach over cell soft? Yeah, I'd be like, Oh yeah. Um, I'm curious about that after you finished all my things and I'm all ears and I'm overly interested and excited.

[00:21:51] I welcome the opportunity for you to go above and beyond. Just don't do it before then. And don't do it spray and pray listening, repeat back, go through my items, make me happy. And again, that's an, that's obviously a little bit more of an inbound competitive presentation, right? I think the key to unlocking unlimited revenue.

[00:22:11] Here's what, here's how I see the market. There was a, there was a study, I think it was by 6 cents. That said that about one, 1% of your, uh, like target accounts have recently bought from a competitor. Right. They, they just implemented something in the past two, three, five months. And they're not even open to looking at anything.

[00:22:32] It doesn't matter how good you are at prospecting. You'll never get them. Those are about another 1% that is somewhere in their buying process where like, Even if you're kind of crappy at sales development, you'll get those very luckily. Right. You're just reach out. They're like, Oh yeah, we're talking to sales folks.

[00:22:47] Don't talk to you guys. Right. All right. Joe's going to come in down in like two weeks. Right. And some, some intense data vendors can help you with that and whatever else. But then there's like 60%. And this depends on the category that knows kind of what you do. But doesn't really understand, you know, exactly the problem that you solve or why they need you ASAP.

[00:23:09] And then there's another like 38% that like have no fucking idea what this is. And the key to unlocking revenue is converting the 98% into money. It's not grabbing the 1% of that's coming inbound. Sure. You should be good at closing those. Come on, they're talking to sales ops an hour each, like you got a 50, 50 chance.

[00:23:29] Fine. There might be another three competitors there that steal 10% of the deals, but it's, it's 90% between those two. So you should win. But if you can win the cold ones, that's where the money's at. And, and here's the, here's the common, I think mistake where a lot of people fall short on this, right. Is when, when they get a no, they give up too easy.

[00:23:49] There's two different types of no, right. There's no, without a good reason. And then there's no with a good reason. If they say, Hey, sorry, I just signed a five-year contract with your competitor. That's no, with a good reason. Right. Correct. But if they're to say, Hey, no, I'm not interested. And they can't give you a good reason.

[00:24:07] You don't, you're not giving up on those. Right. Those are the ones that that's where you're going to unlock that revenue. That's those are the ones that you got to keep pushing, you know, not, maybe not too aggressive, maybe, you know, give it a little bit of breathing room, but don't give up, don't give up on those people take no, and just think of, okay.

[00:24:25] They said no, or they were too difficult or they were in a bad mood or they hung up in my face, whatever the reasons are. And then they, and then even worse. Is, they write some sort of negative note in the CRM. So then every time they see it, they're like, Oh, I don't want to call it this guy again. Um, you know, so not leaving negative notes is extremely important and, and documenting if it was no with no good reason so that you continue to follow up.

[00:24:52] Right. And if you're a mid market enterprise, probably have several buyer personas, right. That are, um, that are, that combine the solution. It's not just one. And in that case, you should continue to call the rest of the account. I would definitely give a prospect, some breathing room if they're like, I'm not interested.

[00:25:08] Okay. Uh, if it is a dream account, one of those that you're working with at and T, and this is Verizon, they just said I'm on interested. I'd give them a month. If they are some random account they're charter communications and you have at and T while there's another a hundred companies, just like charter communications that are like fairly big, but not all the biggest.

[00:25:27] Give them two or three months. Right. And if there are some small accounts, just not thinking about for your list for now, just supplement with others, that might be slightly more interested. So be, be strategic about your approach and understand that like out for outbound, I say, go hunt for the money. Like what do you rather get one, $1 million opportunity or a hundred opportunities worth $10,000 each?

[00:25:49] Like I said, he, Oh my God, fucking give me the one, $1 million off T like I'd much rather work that. Work sending a hundred full ops email for a hundred demos and doing a hundred full ops. I'm trying to like get a hundred stakeholders that are friend, you know, in the buyer committee. It's a pain. I'd rather work fewer bigger.

[00:26:12] Opties right. You want to balance obviously, but yeah, but, but the hardest ones to get are the big ones. It's not the small ones. They take thinking a little bit deeper, being a little bit more creative, reaching out outbound in different ways. Right. Um, but there's definitely an argument to be made about spending more time on less people, but then having a good, healthy balance as well.

[00:26:37] That's right. That's right. I agree with that a hundred percent. Yeah. Well, Tina, thank you so much for coming on today. Appreciate it. Um, before I let you go, just tell folks where they can find out more about what you're doing and LT sales and anything that you have that you want us to include in the show notes for them.

[00:26:55] Yeah, I think the easiest way to find me is just go on LinkedIn, um, and find Tito ports. And I read a lot of things about sales, sales, development, inbound, outbound, how to approach it, how to think through it. Uh, we've. You know, done a lot of cool things. We work with huge organizations like IBM, uh, we help them build their out of emotion and do it.

[00:27:18] We're hunting for whales. They're $20 million deals and so on. And we also work with a lot of like early stage startups that just got seed funding or a funding, and they're trying to grow and everywhere in between. So anybody who's trying to build a inbound outbound motion, um, or for all those SDRs that are trying for trying to get.

[00:27:37] Better tips or better ideas. Uh, LinkedIn is a place to go find me there and, uh, yeah, let's, let's connect. Awesome. We'll include that in the show notes for everybody. If you're tuning in. Thanks for listening. Go ahead and share the podcast with your friends. Write us a review, and we're listening for your feedback.

[00:27:56] Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell.

[00:28:19] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review. And share the podcast with your friends.