This episode is very special as Collins’ guest is the best selling author of the book Selling from the Heart. We will get to know Larry Levine as he talks about how he started his sales journey from the “A-ha” moments to becoming a very successful sales professional. In this episode, Collin and Larry have also tackled some of the key take-aways that’s very important from Larry’s book Selling from the Heart.
Before catapulting into the best selling author of the book Selling from the Heart, Larry has spent 29 years as a sales professional in the office technology industry.
Larry dives deep in the topic of common sales practices that he encountered over the years and what he did things the polar opposite way to become a very successful sales professional.
Larry talks about the importance of asking questions, looking for feedback, and more importantly, building relationships with your customers.
You can find Larry Levine’s book and read more from the following resources:
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Episode 3- Larry Levine
Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for to up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building.
[00:00:27] Process and win their dream clients. I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right on today, these episode, I am super pumped. I've got Larry Levine from selling from the heart. Um, he's going to bring nothing but sales fire for you guys. And you know, Larry I've read Larry's book twice. Uh, his book really did change the way that I've used sales.
[00:00:51] And, uh, I'm super excited for him to talk a little bit about his sales journey and selling from the heart and what he believes in, uh, for salespeople. Larry welcome to the show. Hey Colin. It's so good to see you again. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, absolutely. Larry, just tell people a little bit about yourself and where your sales journey started.
[00:01:14] Hey, how much time do we have. Give us the short version. Cause I want to dig into the, the, the selling from the heart, you know, uh, tactical stuff that people can take away from the show. So give us a short version and then we'll dig deeper into that selling from the heart, uh, goodies. No, it it's all good.
[00:01:33] So. The short version, I spent 20, almost 29 years in the office technology channel all in Los Angeles. So yeah, I saw copiers my whole entire career in a laggard backwards sales channel. I beat it up. I make fun of it, but in all sincerity, it provided really well for my family. Um, and the reason being is I did things call and completely polar opposite.
[00:01:57] Of everybody else. At least I believe I learned and we're going to really peel this back. I have a sneaky feeling. They are, but I have a big one. I'm a big believer. We have aha moments throughout our whole sales career and we must reinvent ourselves. I reinvented myself three or four times along the way in my copier journey once my first year, second midpoint.
[00:02:22] Third towards the tail end of my career. And then I was forced into reinventing myself, the latter part of my career, which kind of catapulted me into selling from the heart. But you know, one of the big things that at least the big takeaway that I'd share with everybody is we must reinvent ourselves. We have to be cognizant.
[00:02:42] Of our surroundings and we have to be willing to learn new things, and we always have to be willing to ask people for help. And I was just really, I was intentionally curious my whole sales career and I think that's what set me on my journey.
[00:03:06] I think that, you know, that's okay. Common mistake for a lot of salespeople, right? Is that they get to point where they think they know it all and they don't remain open minded to learning new things, to learning, you know, like you said, reinventing yourself. Um, what, and, and, and what do you think it is that made you so curious and, and, and, and put you in a place to do things different than the way other people around you were doing it at the time.
[00:03:36] Uh, because I was fear drove me. Fear actually drove the hell out of me. To always be better than I was the day before. And, um, what drove me even more is I grew up with a, I grew up with a father who was a rocket scientist for the United States air force. So he was a propeller head. He had a PhD in aeronautical physics.
[00:03:58] By the time he was 20 from two Ivy league schools graduated high school at 15 and a half. That's what I had to grow up with. Right. So here he is his aeronautical engineer. I hated school. I fought school. I think if I got a 2.1 in high school, I was stoked. Right. And I went to college just to appease my dad and to appease my mom and barely made it through college.
[00:04:23] But you know what? I learned a lot of life lessons and I got a couple of degrees. That's what drove me is here. I am growing up with a dad. Who's a rocket scientist. And then I wind up in sales. And so to always prove that I was worthy of my dad's, right. That's how my dad viewed me. I drove myself hard, I guess I held myself to a higher degree of accountability than everybody else.
[00:04:49] So that one day I can look my dad in the, I call and say, look at right, very successful sales, professional, that's silent lead. That's what drove the hell out of me for 28 years selling copiers. Wow. Okay. So you, you, you T you use that fear, uh, as your motivator to, to, you know, be successful in sales, but to kinda follow up on that, like you get into sales, right.
[00:05:20] And there's certain way people are doing sales and it's, was it in line with how you do sales now, or what you believe about sales or not? Let's kind of talk about that. No cause he, uh, Oh boy, we can peel this sucker back all day long. So I was, I'll go back to my first year in sales. So my first year in sales, my first full year in sales was 1988.
[00:05:43] And in 1988. Yeah, my first year I'll full disclosure. I made $18,000 my first year in sales. And I thought I was filthy stinking rich, but it was, it was the worst time I ever had, but it was the best time I ever had as well. The worst time is, is, is I'll use the word old school. Because everyone's still throws it around still to this day is I was trained by watching VHS tapes.
[00:06:13] So for those of your listeners who don't know what a VHS, right, right. But I had to spend a week watching eight hours a day for sure. Five days of VHS sales trip by the end of that last day, which would have been a Friday, my business cards were ready and I was sent out in the feel to do 50 cold calls a day.
[00:06:33] Right. Couldn't come back til I got 50 cards. Then I had to sit down with those 50 cards and make phone calls. And that's what it consisted of. I went 90 days before I sold my very first customer. I wasn't getting into anything. It was all brand new net new now calling I'm in my early twenties. Yeah. But I always, I, you know, I w I still do it to this day.
[00:06:58] I'm cognizant of my surroundings. I use that word just a little bit ago as well. I had this sixth sense where I listened really keenly into what people are saying, not eavesdropping. But I was, I was aware of the sales bullpen. I was in, when I was doing write ups with salespeople, I was, I was listening really intently to what they were saying.
[00:07:18] And when I, I remember this as plain as day, when I made my very first sale, I did something that forever sent me on my journey. As I asked that customer. Why did they do business with me, besides that they felt sorry for me. Cause they knew it was my first sale probably, but I re I really asked him, I peeled it back.
[00:07:38] Right. What made you do business with me now? I'm in my early twenties. Yeah. I still remembered as plain as day. They said you did something completely different than everybody else. You made it about me. And it wasn't about your product or your company know call. And I didn't know I was really doing it.
[00:07:59] It was just, I was just doing it right, because I was cognizant of my surroundings for the first 90 days I saw what people were doing. I saw how salespeople were treating people and I did the complete polar opposite.
[00:08:16] Yeah. And then from that point on, I started to ask, as I started develop, right. So my first year it was still a struggle, but I still brought in some customers, every customer that I brought in, I asked them, why did they buy from me? And then I asked them the follow up question is what do you like? And what do you don't like about salespeople?
[00:08:38] And I share this because I was curious enough. I wanted to know. Yeah, what's that the, these, these are, these are such important points because I mean, for you to pick that up so early in your sales career and it to be so different than what other people were doing is so significant. You know, I had a.
[00:09:01] Different experience where, you know, I started out over the phone selling printer cartridges. Okay. It was the only job that I could get. They were willing to take a chance on me. The training was, you know, somebody yell at breathing down my neck while I was on the phone telling me do that. Don't do that.
[00:09:18] I say this, you know, here's this calling? Yeah, it's crazy. But you know, humble beginnings. I learned some good things there. Like I learned. Good old fashion, hard work, not hi-tech nothing fancy Nancy, like be the first one in, be the last one to leave. Come in on Saturday, get your list ready. I learned some good things.
[00:09:40] I also learned to not take things so seriously. Some will some won't next call. You know, I developed a thick skin as people like to say, or I just, you know, it didn't, I didn't have the, a develop the ability to not have that emotional roller coaster that a lot of salespeople have. Right. So, but you know, to beef and I picked up things in the bullpen, as well as yourself.
[00:10:04] However, you know, I started saying things that people were saying that weren't true and I didn't know, Oh, any better. I'm just like, Hey, if he's get, he's getting a lot of sales. And he's telling people that these things are made in the USA and they weren't. You know, things like that. And then somebody else had been around a little bit longer, but say, Hey, you really should stop saying that because it's not true.
[00:10:24] And, you know, so I think that really good salespeople at the core are people who, you know, they pick up things by listening. They're curious, I think that, you know, you asking for feedback that was huge people weren't teaching that, you know, and another to add to that, When people say no, or don't buy from you, ask them why?
[00:10:50] Because that feedback is equally as valuable. Yeah. You know, and it, and it's why I'm a firm believer. I've written several articles on it. I think feedback's the breakfast sales champions. And I it's just, you know, I keep going back and, and no one ever coached me on this, but I always say, so I'm going to stick up for salespeople just for a second calling because I'm a firm believer in this, that salespeople are products of their environment.
[00:11:19] And you know, that old saying, right? Um, even in our personal lives, your products, your environment, your products of how you were raised. Well, I was raised in an environment where we were curious, we asked a lot of questions. It was how my parents were raised. It's how they raise me now, granted, you know, my dad grew up and he turned out to be this brainiac rockets, scientist guy, and you know, the Apple.
[00:11:41] So real far from the tree with me, because I wasn't book smart. Right. But I was street smart, but I took how I was raised and I transfer that out into the sales world. And that's what I learned the first year is the more I asked questions. And the more I asked why, and the more willing I was to learn, I knew the impact it was going to be.
[00:12:02] And I'll bring up this word, vulnerability that everybody throws around. Hm. I didn't know. That's what I was doing back then. I was just being me. I was asking a lot of questions, but it formed the basis of probably my first, I'd say five, six years in sales. That's what I learned my first year now I had probably the crappiest old school sales manager that ever existed.
[00:12:27] My first year. And I said, you know what? I'm not getting out of my sales manager. What I need some guests, what I became my own sales manager. That's why I held myself to a higher degree of accountability than anybody else. See. Nobody forced me into sales. I chose sales. And when you choose sales and when you get into sales, there's certain non-negotiables.
[00:12:50] That you have to stay true to. Right. And one of them was prospecting. I prospect every single day, that was nonnegotiable. I had conversations with people every single day that was non negotiable. It started based on my, you know, observing my surroundings. I held myself to a higher degree of accountability and I did things that other people weren't willing to do.
[00:13:13] And that's what catapulted me throughout my career. Now, let me ask you this question. Um, you know, you said it's something that's constant in your story is you were doing things different than how other people were doing. Right. How, how often in your sales career did people tell you like Larry, that's not how we do things.
[00:13:32] Why are you doing that? You should be doing them this way. Yeah. You know, it's, it's a great point because there's been many a time that I've had very uncomfortable conversations with managers. Because they looked at me, Hey, you shouldn't be doing this. Or why are you spending so much time doing that? Why you hanging out with your customer so long?
[00:13:54] And I said, Hey, listen. Right. Without customers y'all have no business to me. I knew that customers were the key to my success. And if you ask it right, and that's just fast forward to this right now, and I'm going to spin on what you just said. If you ask anybody in sales or your customers important, they're going to, of course, they're going to say yes, Colin.
[00:14:17] Right. Then what are you doing about the relationships? How do you know those relationships are even good? Right. And I was willing to test it all the time. And I knew that without any customers, I had no business. So I made sure I took rock solid care of my customers. Let's let's dig into that a little bit, because I think that a common problem is a lot of salespeople cash, the commission check, and then that's it until it's until it's renewal time.
[00:14:49] Right. They treat the relationships very transactional and, you know, From reading your book and talking to you, I know that you really invest asked in those relationships. So what are some tactical things that salespeople that maybe could do it more of the way we're talking about and stop treating that relationship?
[00:15:10] So truck transactional, what are some things that they can do to start to invest more in those relationships? So I'm going to hit, I'm going to hit this head on, but that, but that was probably the area that we're getting ready to speak about. That's what. I really pushed the button on with management and so forth because they looked at me.
[00:15:28] They go, you know, why are you doing all these things? But conversely, I'm going to share a quick story. You're going to have to remind me, but I'm going to share a story that really brings this point to life. Is I invested heavily in one of my favorite sayings. Colin is, is if you fail to invest, you'll never be able to collect.
[00:15:48] I invested in my relationships. I invested in building those relationships. I went I'm back. I got to know people. I got to know multiple people in that organization. I was always there as educating them. I was building networks inside them, that business, they were frequently seeing the, I wasn't there to do the proverbial check in and touch base that too many people in sales do today, which brings absolutely no fricking value.
[00:16:14] None whatsoever. Hmm. I started dating. I knew a long time ago that, yeah, I wasn't a commodity Thai sales channel. Right. Colin. I mean, that's his face that it is what it is. I hate to use that expression, but the sales world's done it in that sales channel. They've commoditized themselves. But what I did to stand out is I sold the experience.
[00:16:37] And here was the key. And I keyed in on this. Yeah. I pick this thing apart, this call and this goes back well, past 20 years ago, I asked my customers. What do they, like, what do they don't like about copier salespeople? Keep in mind for those listeners. That's the channel that I grew up in. And then I asked them, what do they like?
[00:16:57] And don't like about the experience they're getting, what do they like? And don't like about the service they're getting. And if they can create that wow moment, if they can create that well experience, what would that look like? I was noted for that call and that I asked that every single time. Yeah, and I sold the experience.
[00:17:21] And so w so what's that really look like in terms of tips and all that is I showed people how much I care. They routinely saw me, I made routine visits. And so I said, Hey, you know what? Listen, you used the word cash and the commission check a little bit ago. Yeah. And I w I would look executives in the eye key decision makers, and I said, you know what?
[00:17:44] I bet you, along the way, you've experienced these things. And guess what? I just reiterated the things that everybody else told me. They didn't like, or the things that they experienced. And they all go out. I tell them, tell me some of those most common things that people were saying, I'll use one, love them and leave them.
[00:18:04] Right. In other words, cash has a commission check is the biggest, the biggest biggest thing is, is they, they say all the great things until the time they sign the agreement until the time it's installed until the time they get the check and then guess what they're gone. They slowly fade away. That's why I say they go from Kings and Queens, the frogs into seconds.
[00:18:28] Right? Right. And then, and then, and then all of a sudden, you know, there's months that go by and then all of a sudden here's the average sales person, right. That's why I say there's a big difference between sales reps and sales professionals. I go, then the sales rep goes back two or three months later to do that shakin.
[00:18:47] And then they start, yeah, go where the hell you been, right. Or there's a problem. And all of a sudden they got to answer it or they want to make another sale and they walk back and now they're their best friend again. And I think, you know, I just did, again, this isn't rocket science stuff we're talking about.
[00:19:04] It's treat people like the way you want to be treated, treat your customers as if they were your own customers, you're running your business. And that's what I believe I did very well. Uh, I ran my business. Like I owned my business. But it's also deeper than that. Right? So like actually caring enough to ask the type of questions that you were asking.
[00:19:29] Right to be armed with the type of facts of the experience that they don't want to have. So you can make sure that you do your job as a sales professional, to give them the experience that they deserve, give them the experience that they're looking for. And then you would even go as far as telling them on the front end.
[00:19:48] Hey, I know this is maybe what you've experienced in the past. Or this is what you don't like, and this is how, you know, basically working with me is going to be different. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and I'm going to, I want to peel that back because I sold the experience. Now, granted, what I sold wasn't sexy, right.
[00:20:06] That stuff broke. I wasn't selling things that broke that required service. But what I would do, I believe better than many in the sales channel that I grew up in is I'm. I was comfortable enough in my own skin to look and executive in the eye and they're decision makers and everyone involved in that decision and say, Hey, you know what, Collin, if you choose to do business with me, and this is a mutual agreeable, this is the right fit.
[00:20:34] Then let me share with you what you can experience afterwards. Okay. Call in. This is what sets me apart from everybody else in the marketplace. This is what you can expect to me at installation. This is what you can expect from me 30 days from now, this is what you can expect from me 90 days from now.
[00:20:52] And this is what you can expect on an ongoing basis. And furthermore, I'm sure you're probably doubting what I'm saying, because there's so much lack of trust in sales, but I tell you what, and then I'm going old school because I kept with me. In a little padfolio, a list of all my clients. I would throw that client list out on the table and say call.
[00:21:15] And if, if you're doubting anything, I'm saying, I'm just going to ask you to randomly point to any name that's on that list. I'll give you a name and phone number and they can vouch for me. Guess how many times that was, they asked for that.
[00:21:33] Hardly hardly ever. Cause if you're, if you're confident enough to even put that on the table, they feel why, why bother, but it's, but it's a very good point because, you know, it's, it's, it's such a simple concept, but I think it's so challenging for some salespeople. It's just be a, be a man or be a woman of your word.
[00:21:56] You do what you say you're gonna do. And your reputation is everything. Okay. You're so spot on because you know, we live in this world today where everyone talks about a personal brand and sales people have to have Morans and all that. Hey, guess what? The simplest way to, to really build a brand is really simple in sales.
[00:22:17] I'm not going to overcomplicate this none whatsoever. There's no marketing fluff in this thing at all. Right. It's just always keep your promise. Do what you say you're going to do, right? I'm telling you this says this is a hundred percent of the salespeople out there. I'm talking to you. All right now, never break a promise.
[00:22:37] That's the easiest way to build your brand. Be honest, don't lie. Don't tell them they're going to get one thing and then sell them another or tell them this is included. That's part of it. Or you can deliver on that if you can't. I mean, it's simple stuff, but you know, the problem is, is so many people are so worried about getting their commission check, hitting their numbers, looking good, that they make little small compromises that sacrifice that.
[00:23:02] And. Don't even get me started on the personal brand talk track, because we can talk about that. Uh, you know, it, I think the biggest misconception is, and I know you agree with this is people think their brand is something they need to create and it's not brand is who you are, who you really are. And I know that you're a big believer on personal work so that you, you can show up as your best self to really, you know, be that brand that people want to do business with.
[00:23:28] Be that person that, you know, um, Type of salesperson that they actually enjoy doing business. Oh, do you? You're you're speaking, you're speaking my love language right now, because I always say that th that the toughest work that salespeople have to do, it's the work that many just choose to just push off to the side is the inner work.
[00:23:50] And I'm a big believer that the inner heart work, H a R T the inner heart work is the hardest work that. Anybody in sales will do. And for that matter in life in general, but if, if, if you can really key in, on the inner work, the outer work becomes so much easier, but that's the crap. Everybody wants to run away from.
[00:24:13] Yeah, I couldn't agree. I mean, it's like you said, you can apply it to anything. You want to be a good parent work on yourself so that you can show up as your best self to be the parent that your kids deserve, but you want to be a good sales person. Do the work, invest in yourself so you can show up as your best self to be the best sales person that people enjoy dealing with.
[00:24:31] Like it applies anywhere that personal work is so important. Yeah. And, and it's, and it's, that's why I'm, I'm a big believer. I talk about it all the time. That perception is reality. So I think, you know, the fear drove me, but also changing people's perception of the industry I was in drove me and I CA yeah.
[00:24:52] You know, at the end of the day, fricking I sold copy machines for goodness sakes my whole career, but you know what? I wanted to be noted as a sales professional, who happened to sell copiers. Not some fricking rep that sold copiers. If you get what I'm saying. So that's why I constantly worked on myself.
[00:25:12] I constantly wanted to be better than everybody else. And if I knew it was se, if I knew that in my heart perception was reality, then I was going to take perception. I was going to run with it and I was going to change how people perceived me and what they got. If they chose to do business with me. Yeah.
[00:25:31] I mean, and you know what, when you really up your game, you do that personal work. You invest in yourself, you invest in your brand. Um, you know, it doesn't matter what you sell. You're so confident as an individual or as a sales person. If the company you're representing falls apart today, you know, you could go anywhere and be successful.
[00:25:54] Oh dude, it is spot on because here's, here's a funny question. I love asking salespeople this question. Now this is a little make-believe it's tanned, but you're going to get what I really am driving with this. I love. When I work with salespeople and in their leadership, I always ask them this question.
[00:26:14] I'm going to keep it simple for right now. I say, that's just say that you're in a year in a room full of people or you're you not a conference call and somewhere along the line, you get this question thrown at you. Why should I do business with you? Right. For all your listeners out there that are in sales.
[00:26:33] You know, they've been asked this question before and it's so interesting Collin to hear the responses that come back because a majority of the time it's, this is what makes my company different. This is what makes our product different. This is what, here's our war solution different. And I said, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.
[00:26:54] I'm putting the brakes on this one. I don't think I asked you what makes your company different? I asked what makes you different? Oh, yeah. Think about that one for a second. Y O U capital X point. And that's why I'm on a big mission to tell salespeople, right? And their leaders, it's time to step away from your company.
[00:27:17] It's time to step away from your product. You gotta become front and center because in my opinion, if they can't make it past, you. You're dead in the freaking water. They're not going to get to your big, fancy website that you've spent a gazillion dollars on and all that. If they can't make it past you, the individual, what makes you different?
[00:27:37] You're dead. You're dead in the water hundred percent. And it's it's. It goes back to this, this point that I really believe in people, trust people, not brands, right? So they're not going to buy because your company won a bunch of awards has been around for decades. They're going to buy because the experience that you give them, that they feel you're going to have their back, you're going to take care of them.
[00:28:01] And that you're going to invest in that relationship. People trust people. And you know, this goes back to your brand and everything. Every individual sales person has a bigger reach than the company. You know, LinkedIn as a is a perfect example. You see large companies that have hundreds of followers and most anybody in their sales org has thousands of followers.
[00:28:22] So you have a much bigger reach you're out there representing the brand and yourself. So you better know why somebody should want to do business with you and not tell them why. You know, your company is the best option. No. And, and, and it's why, you know, I wrote, I write about it a lot in selling from the heart, the difference between a sales rep and a sales professional.
[00:28:45] And then, you know, if you fast forward to the last chapter, my book, which I laughed my ass off writing, it's all about, you know, being an empty suit. No, unfortunately, right. I'm not here to disrespect anybody in sales because I'm a sales geek at heart. But, you know what? There's a lot that, I mean, I think was running rampant and sales today is everyone right?
[00:29:07] It's been bitten by the empty suit. There's so many salespeople that are breaking promises, not educating, not engaging, not leading with insight. It's not serving up the best version of themselves to their customers. They're running around with commission breath, the running around just trying to sell whatever they're leading with deception and me off.
[00:29:28] And yeah. Now, you know, now I know why the MTC it's become alive and well it's because there's a lot of that running around. And one of my favorite lines that I love using Collin is right. Rolex watches, Armani suits, and fancy cars mask insecurity that doesn't make the man nor the woman. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
[00:29:51] There's Larry, thanks so much for coming on today. There's so much value inside of this episode. Some of the key takeaways are some of the things Larry talked about is, you know, ask questions, look for feedback to really craft how you deal. With your customers with your prospects, how you invest in those relationships, don't be the guy or gal who Cassius the commission check, and then doesn't continue to invest in those relationships.
[00:30:21] And you better know why somebody should do business with you. You know, and I think those are some of the value things that we talked about today. Uh, Larry tell people where they can connect with you, where they can find out more about selling from the heart, where they can find the book and what you have.
[00:30:39] Uh, for them today that we're going to include. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I'll just drop two more wisdom bombs if I can really quick. And then German, and then we'll, we'll put this little bow on. This is, you know, by asking and being curious with questions and so forth. These are two of my favorite sayings of all time.
[00:31:00] The more you learn from your clients, the more you grow with your clients, right? The more, you know, the more you grow, the more you learn from your clients, the more you earn from your clients can on those. And that's why you must snuggle up to your customers. The key to your growth is sitting right in front of you.
[00:31:21] You can earn a PhD from your fricking customers if you just ask. So that being said, you know, every, if you want to find out anything about selling from the heart and the movement around selling from the heart, you can go to selling from the heart.net. Uh, you can find the book on Amazon, uh, in book format, Kindle format, audio, you can listen to the selling from the heart podcast on any of your favorite podcast apps.
[00:31:46] If you want any kind of free resources and you could bust out your smartphone and you can text the word Hart, H a R T text the word heart to 21,000. So it's two one zero zero zero. You'll get. Links to all kinds of free resources and speaking of free resources. If they go to selling from the heart.net forward slash book, they can download the first few chapters of selling.
[00:32:16] Wow. All right. You came prepared. That is, we will include all of them that and the show notes to make it easy for you to take advantage of those resources. I've personally read the book twice, so I highly recommend it. And thanks Larry so much for coming on today. Really appreciate it. No, it's my pleasure.
[00:32:35] Look forward to round two. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co founder, Chris, I'm your host, Colin Mitchell.
[00:33:01] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free. To leave us a review and share the cast with your friends.