Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Dec. 7, 2020

Episode #29 S1-EP29 The B2B Sales Revolution with Justin Michael

Joining Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast is Justin Michael. Justin shares his experience on how he got into sales. He likes to think of himself as a Sales Futurist, and he shares some insights about Salesborgs.


Justin Michael is a Technologist & Consultant at Justin Michael Consulting (JMC). JMC creates elite performance-driven revenue engines around the world and continues to train both top reps and newcomers. Hands-on experience over the past decade+ across the SaaS industry differentiates the JMC approach. 

He is also the Founder of Salesborg, the fastest-growing futuristic Sales and RevOps Community. Salesborg focuses on top-of-funnel sales development and sales technology and works to improve performance.

To find out more about Justin Michael, you can reach him at Salesborg.ai or LinkedIn. You can also follow him on Twitter. If you contact or mention Justin directly, he provides a free guide at https://discord.gg/ztm5K84.

If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.

Join Our Sales Motivational SMS list by texting Hustle to 424-378-6966. Please make sure to rate and review the show on Apple. 

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Transcript

Episode 29

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for too. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. And I've got a treat for you today. I'm going to be talking with Justin Michael, who likes to think of himself as a sales futurist, and we're going to learn why he is the founder of sales boards. You can check that out at sales, borg.ai, Justin, welcome to the show, how you doing?

[00:00:55] I'm doing great. Um, just other than the dream out here in Santa Barbara, California, I like to say the life of a Don Henley lyric and, uh, no complaints. Yeah. Awesome. So tell people just so we have a little bit of context, the short version, how you got into sales, and then we're going to take it from there.

[00:01:17] Yeah. So I've been in sales for 20 years. Uh, um, 40 40 is the new 31 about to be 41. And I've sold just about everything you can imagine. I've been in software for the past 13 years. I got a lucky break and got to work for Sean Parker. Who's well known and, uh, Social dilemma. He was a part of Napster. He introduced Mark Zuckerberg to Peter teal.

[00:01:41] I worked in a company called causes.com. We did a lot of nonprofit activism and fundraising. And from there I went to Salesforce and LinkedIn, a dozen startups, and I consulted another hundred. And really what I specialized in was cracking the top of the funnel. Basically getting meetings, opening opportunities.

[00:02:00] Driving revenue, calling strangers and getting them to meet with us and getting to look the product that may seem easy. And there's millions of people who do sales development, like SDRs it's called, uh, but it's actually become so hard. Winning is the new closing. There's actually a famous speaker. Now his name's Chris boss, you've all seen, never split.

[00:02:20] The difference is an FBI hostage negotiator. Now I love learning from an FBI hostage negotiator, but how hard is our business, but to get meetings, we need FBI tips, right? So there's also this thing I have. That's silly. It's like, can I simplify this for people? Can I make. It's easier to send a thousand emails and get 10 meetings or to pick up the phone and dial a hundred people and, you know, get 10 people to meet.

[00:02:45] That's been the thrust. No cracking calls and, uh, I've come up with some new systems with neuroscience to do it on my own consultancy, worldwide called Justin Michael consulting. And then I have a group called Salesforce. Who's just seller and cyborg. And it's a digital dojo. It's a discord server, which is traditionally for gaming.

[00:03:06] It holds 550,000 people at 500 people I'm working on it. And, uh, people go in there and they tear down each other's emails and they listen to each other's cold calls. I do live cold calling in there and prove out my systems on a daily basis usually. And it's been a whole lot of fun. Awesome, awesome, awesome.

[00:03:23] So many good things to talk about. All right. So let's start with top of funnel. You know, typically the hardest thing for, for a lot of sellers is that top of funnel now tucked talk to us a little bit about the tactical stuff that you've picked up from chris' boss that you're implementing and teaching folks.

[00:03:41] Yes. So definitely Chris Boston influenced Josh Braun is an influence back. Holland is an influence. There's a lot of systems that are out on the market. Um, for me, I have found that. Email communication is actually visual. One visual in an email process is 60,000 times faster than the brain. So it's very strange that in digital communication we send, um, symbols.

[00:04:06] I also understand it because if you send pictures on the first email you get into the spam cat, she goes right to the spam folder. But there's ways now with automation, with systems like outreach and SalesLoft and Sant and groove to preprogram your emails. So the first email can be really short. And then the second and third could be the image.

[00:04:22] Another very strange thing I've seen is people are doing three paragraph emails, all the systems have these big emails, but the problem is WhatsApp, Twitter, Tik, TOK, snap, Facebook messenger, text messaging, every other platform. Where you contact people you trust is short form. Yes. Even on LinkedIn little short messages, we're getting automation on LinkedIn.

[00:04:45] Now we're seeing these long paragraphs and everybody deletes it. It's horrible. So what I first said is let's look at short, uh, communication. So Jeremy Donovan, who's the SVP of strategy at SalesLoft tested 6 million emails instead of K you want your subject line to be three words and your. The body of an email to be 250 words.

[00:05:04] That made sense to me. But if you look at your brain, it takes about 3.3 seconds to read three sentences. It takes 13 seconds to really read three paragraphs. So people who are working at a pace, but they don't have time to adjust that they're going to start, they're going to blow it off for later. I find it's more respectful to have a hyper short text message looking, you know, Open rates go way up and then if you can get visuals, there's more data that's prostitutes process, the right type of visuals.

[00:05:31] And then it also challenged this myth about all of this need for personalization. And I'd go back and talk to someone like Aaron Ross and predictable revenue goes. Yeah. Over 20% creepy 80 20 rule, where look at the Jeremy, Jeremy, Jonathan, uh, Scientific discoveries. And over 20%, it's just not necessary for an increase in performance.

[00:05:49] And so where I go with that is I'm really teaching people to be relevant to the business pain that you solve. Someone's sitting at work and they have a challenge and a problem you send this really short message that solves the problem and they feel respected and they have time to see it in three seconds and they make a decision that either answer or refer.

[00:06:07] And so people are having seven times. The success rate as, uh, as the prevailing email methods using my tactics. I know for sure that the shorter copy works cause we've tested this ourselves. And we found that not even just short, but even more casual as well. So more casual, more personable, like almost like your text messaging, a friend and keeping it that short and that personable.

[00:06:35] Has a much better response rate than just spitting features and benefits in three paragraphs. So you've proven that empirically empiricism is just doing the experiments yourself and having control. So I've proven this over millions of emails because I work for a company called outbound works with the co-founder of data, nice Ben Sardella.

[00:06:57] And we sent millions of emails and we experimented with personalization and subject lines and links, demographic, psychographic, firmographic. We tested all of it and it was eerie. I chills when I read. I think it's chapter seven of leading sales development by Jeremy Donovan. And he goes through the statistics and every single one I'd seen almost every single one.

[00:07:15] He was perfectly aligned because you drop an Apple, hits the ground. I mean, the truth, the truth on human communication, our brains have not changed at all in 10 to 20 years. So I was like modern buyer, modern method. The neuroscience is the same. So now we move over to the phone. Now with phones, if you make a hundred dials in the enterprise, you get five executive assistants.

[00:07:33] There's really no contact rates. So I use parallel assisted dialer's from connecting. So, um, basically I'm able to dial, you know, multiple numbers at a time connect. Every 41 attempts I talked to, you know, in, in two hours of calling or even an hour of calling and talked to 10 people, get a few referrals, a few meetings.

[00:07:52] It's like breaking the sound barrier. What do I do in the calls? Well, calling is all about these scripts and rebuttals and handling brush offs. Well, all the calls are you interrupt and you say, you don't know me, or the reason for my call. You talk about yourself. I flipped that. So I'm getting high contact rates when I get some on the phone.

[00:08:11] It's my tone. Just how know email is not the words it's visual phone is not what we say. It's how we say it. It's tone that it's about power shifts. So what I do is I get the prospects to talk first. It's radical. I don't pitch don't even say why I'm calling. I first figured out, wait a minute, give us an example of that.

[00:08:30] Right? So you make it about them, not you, which is, which is huge because people are not doing that. Um, and I don't know why that, I don't know why they're not doing that, but they're not. So for all the sales hustlers out there, listening that maybe need some help in this area. Give me an example. You, you, you using the dialer, you get somebody on, how are you getting them to talk?

[00:08:51] How are you making it about them? And what are some tips for people out there so that they can start doing this too? Okay. So first it was impossible. You call someone and you try thousands of tries to get them to talk. And they go, what is this about? Who are you? Where are you calling? And they flip it back to you, flipped back to you, flipped back to you.

[00:09:08] I found a Jedi mind trick. I've crowned this thing called route and ruin multiply. I call the VP of it and I say, who's in charge of it. And they say, I am. And the minute they assume the power, what they control, they forget you're a cold caller. But you can be nuanced and who's in charge of your it security or who's in charge of your it fraud analytics or some piece of it.

[00:09:31] And then you just sound slicker and they say, Oh, it's not me. It's Susan. Okay. Can I ping Susan and mention your name? Sure. You get routed. So that's the route. I said, route ruined, multiply. I called them. They go, okay, I'm in charge of it. What do you do? Well, I have an it solution to it. I just want to make sure you in charge of it.

[00:09:48] We don't need you. We're not interested. We do it already. We use acne Corp. Oh, Acme Corp. Great. How's that working out for you? I wait. And I don't know if someone said this is like a Dr. Phil question. So maybe I took it from Dr. Phil, which is hilarious. But if you sit and ask, the question is validate what they have and then ask how it's going and pause that question made me millions of dollars.

[00:10:10] Yeah. What they'll do is it's like asking someone, are you happy? Would you like to make more money? Would you like to be fit or you, you validate and make them imagine. You interrupt someone, you ask them about where they're powerful and then you interview them. You start talking about how like they inherited the solution.

[00:10:27] You start making them right. You start agreeing with them about the vendor. They bought the situation he inherited. Tell me more. Well, this religion is, here's what they said. They said, Oh yeah, we use acne. Corp is great. You know, the service sucks. What do you do again? Or, you know, I can't, I can't integrate it, but it was a legacy pricing was amazing.

[00:10:44] W what do you do again? And the polarity shifts, because you've let them talk first and you've waited and delayed gratification. So people listen to my cold calls every day, and it's like, I'll be on for eight minutes, nine minutes, 11 minutes. They'll tell me their life story. Their cancer treatments, the multiple companies, they started to go on and on and on and on.

[00:11:01] I'm just waiting for this, this happy moment where they say, what do you do again? The minute they give you permission to pitch game over. So it's route, that's the ruin and the multiply, and usually want to say, should keep the solution. All right. So let's pick this apart a little bit. So if they don't ask, I just want to give people there's some different paths, right.

[00:11:18] So if we start from the top, right, and, and, and you asked them, who's in charge of it. And then I'm guessing, you know, some people will say, I am other peoples might say, why are you asking? Why does that matter? Or, you know, they might give you a little pushback. So let's talk about how we overcome that. So let me say, you know why, I mean, I am, or why are you asking?

[00:11:41] And that's where I show a little product knowledge and I say, You know, normally it is broken into three or four different areas. And I just want to make sure that you're in charge of the it security piece. Yes, I am. They reconfirm. Okay. And then I also ask, you know, how are, how are you currently doing that?

[00:11:59] But they usually, they usually say, Oh, we've already got that covered. We did that internally. We use a competitor, like by that point, when you really hone in on what they're charge on it, they say, well, what do you do? Oh, I have it stuff too. But I want to make sure it's relevant to the right person there.

[00:12:12] And that's where the relay. No, you know, a hundred times, like everybody's a no, everybody's, we're in an age of commodity class. Everybody has an incurred, a vendor it's often do nothing to status quo, something. They built technically something they have, how many people do you know, or have you seen actually give up and they don't dig deeper when they sell.

[00:12:31] We already have that covered. Or we already have somebody, or we're already using this person, right. Almost every rep and they've, they've built an objection or a rebuttal or a brush off, which is more like a hook where they go, well, Hey, I get it. You're not interested, but feel felt, found other, um, prospect that called they weren't interested in our client.

[00:12:48] Oh, you should be interested. Cause we can save you 60 to click and they try to then hook swayed and it won't work. The better thing to do if they say not interested is go, Oh, you built it internally. Can you coach me on how you build this internally, just so I can make my solution better, you know? Um, Oh, that's interesting.

[00:13:06] You do an internal solution that must've been hard to set up. Hmm. How's that again? We're again, going back, making it about them, spotlighting them. You're trying to find any way to get them to open up and talk about. Even internal team. It does work. You can just see me do it. It's it's, it's something called juristics.

[00:13:24] It's not that you follow my script. Exactly. The fact is all you're concerned about was getting them to talk in the first part of it. Once they start talking about what they did and how they're right. They're opening up, they start disarming. And then, then I thought I called this vampire rule. They turn and they say, Wait, what do you do?

[00:13:42] Or tell me about it. I've had people say not interested. We do it internally. I listen to them at all about how they do it and they flip and they want to know what I do. Right, right. Basically there, you're waiting. You're, you're, you're making it about them. You're spotlighting them. You're waiting for them to give you the invitation to pitch, basically.

[00:14:01] And you're not going to pitch, are you that discipline that you're not going to pitch until they ask you that? Never I'll sit for 22 minutes and it's just everything in human behavior. You, you, you can't go up to someone in a, in a bar like on a date and hit on them and expect them to be interested in you.

[00:14:17] The minute that they actually are interested, you can start talking about yourself. People love to buy the hate to be sold. They, they buy an emotion that close in logic. It's literally like a vampire in the legend. If a vampire is on your windows set cell, they can't come through the threshold until you invite them in.

[00:14:34] This is like lore and legend. So I'm waiting for the polarity shift. It's so weird because the minute they say, what do you do? I can literally cold pitch them and there'll be open. And then I don't, I use a multiplier effect. So if your solution can be sold in against the incumbent, I'll say, Hey, keep what you got.

[00:14:51] Plug us into multiply the effectiveness of Acme Corp. No, a lot of you on the phone are going well. It is a rip and replace. Well, that's just the pitch deck, but here's what you've done. An ordinary quote, cold call. Sounds like this. Hey, it's Justin. Oh, who's this? Oh, well, the reason for my call is we get a 40% increase on revenue for similar banks.

[00:15:11] Your seller. Right or, you know, Oh, this is a, this is a cool call. I know you hate getting cold calls. I hate making them instead. You try to do something funny. No matter what you're doing is me, me, me, I'm the seller. Here's my product. Let me convince you. They recoil. They dig their heels in. You're selling me.

[00:15:27] They don't talk to you. They try to brush you off. And then all of the systems try to handle all the brush off. I just flip it totally and put them in power. Like Akido they're jockey. That's a, it's an interesting strategy because I understand it. Right. Cause people don't like change. Uh, and so if you're not pitching change right away, you're going to have a more meaningful conversation, but some might argue that what if whatever they sell or their solution is rip and replace, it does require change.

[00:15:54] It doesn't work with whatever their current vendor is. How do you approach that? Um, yeah, so, um, If they're not willing to change from their current vendor. So you talked about, you talked about like, basically pitching initially as, uh, your solution working alongside with what they have or in addition to not a rip and replace because ultimately people don't like change.

[00:16:20] Right, which is why they're going to recoil, why they're going to dig their heels in, why they're going to push back. If you're pitching them. Totally change. Whatever's in place today to go with you. But you're basically saying that initially it's not a rip and replace, or you don't go there right away in order to keep the conversation going right.

[00:16:41] For me, it's really the steps is that you're routing, you're figuring out who's in charge of the thing and you're literally getting routed in the organization. Then the ruined step is you're letting them come up with their own reason to change them, convince you why they're right. That's how they start.

[00:16:55] Cause of self-development they'll reveal. More, and then the multiply, if you can sell your service with what they have, don't rip it out, suggest, make what you have stronger, which is another IQ though. But if you have to rip it up, you can at that point pitch. But what you've done is you've delayed the pitching for a minute or two or five, and you've waited until they were.

[00:17:18] Actually asking you to pitch them, which is okay now it's like a totally nice thing. You heard them out. They told you how it's working and they took interest and the polarity shifted the power shifted. And that's when you come in and then you are able to just. Set up the meeting or close for time. I developed a system in 2007.

[00:17:38] It was so effective. I did 63 deals in three months. Leave former seller had been there for a year and to 12, it was so effective getting them to talk. I had to create a Bitly link with a SlideShare. I started closing the deals on the first call, but that's impossible now in the modern enterprise, because you have such consensus, but what does happen is at a certain point, you've heard them out.

[00:17:58] You've waited. They've come to you and revealed things about their current status. You've you've then started to position how you might be able to make it more effective. What they're already using, which is crazy. You validate agree, and then bolster what they're doing. And then they're like, Hey, let's do a call.

[00:18:15] Or when can you meet? They ask you for the meeting time and then you're just time on their calendar. So I demonstrate these calls. I had a. I had a rep that I trained in Australia. He was calling chief risk officers for publicly traded companies. He has outreach set up with these amazing sequences. He studied all the templates and he sent them all, you got opens and he got replies and these things, he started phone technique and he's booking three or four calls a day on his best days with chief risk officers using the route ruined, multiply.

[00:18:45] And before he was doing reason for my call or similar companies or going, and you don't know me or all the prevailing scripts. And actually really started post where the, where the thought leader posted the top 40 openers and the same heuristic saw Mimi, Mimi, me, none, none of it. None of it flips clarity.

[00:19:02] Ashley early has a polarity flip. That is awesome. And I saw Josh Braun do something like this too. We kind of says, how's it going or explain it? So there's a couple people with him, Chris boss, mirroring and trying to get them to talk in this hostage situation where. And thought Lisa knows this too. Like no one can change until they admit there's a problem.

[00:19:25] They have posted car. They're going to keep that car as long as it runs until the day that it breaks down and they call you exactly. Exactly. Um, now, um, um, I understand that this takes an extreme amount of discipline because people are so quick to pitch. Right. And it goes against what maybe they're being taught through leadership or what they've always done.

[00:19:48] So what can they do to just refrain themselves from pitching until that perfect moment when they have that permission to pitch? Yeah. So I guess the discipline is, is. There's many things. One, if someone ever surfaces pain in a discovery call or on a phone, you can never just say someone says our service is bad.

[00:20:09] Oh, our service is great. It's spin selling. Prove this. You have to ask the next order of questions. Well, if you were to fix your service, what would be the impact on revenue? Right. Well, if you don't, so the implication or need path, that's a need payoff with the patient is what if you don't fix this? So, so many people just uncover the pain and don't go deep in the impact.

[00:20:30] It's a rookie move to spoonfeed or bandage the wound, the minute it opens because it's typically a symptom. Okay, well, the service is bad. Why? Oh, because their service department is based in Australia and so it takes 24 hours for them to respond to a ticket. Okay. What happens if you couldn't get a ticket?

[00:20:48] Well, if I don't fix it, then I lose the ability to fix it for the client. I could have. You know, contract terminate. There's actually an SLA in place that if I don't have this thing running all the time that I incur a financial fee, how does that impact revenue? My CFO gets Matt and the whole chain of events, the 16 car pile up the order.

[00:21:07] You know, the untrained seller just says we have better service. And misses all that pain and that all is a bigger deal. Bigger average contract value. All of that comes from spin selling any good questioning, a framework, the Sandler pain funnel. I'm using all that when I'm peeling it, when they finally reveal pain, um, you have to think about power shifts and polarity, and you have to think about this.

[00:21:29] Dale Carnegie said that the most beautiful sound of a prospect is their name. Now, if I nailed their last name, You know, someone's last name is like McKayla wits. And I say it perfectly. They're like, that's great. That was the first, uh, light bulb that went off. I call them and I'd say their name. Right. And they'd be really happy.

[00:21:45] I was like, Whoa, that's weird because I just cold called five people are angry. But when I say the full name and nailed the last name, they they're like, Oh yes, that is me because they all they're like butchering it. Yeah. If you sort of don't butcher their names, so say their full name, you know, even go and get a pronunciation guide on YouTube and nail their name.

[00:22:04] Then you talk about yourself and they get irritated. They're just like, ah, I don't want to hear it. Call them, pronounce her name perfectly and keep making them talk about themselves things they can talk about why they chose the solution, how they implemented the solution. How they use the solution that we all know is not that good, but they MacGyvered it like, yep.

[00:22:24] I got this job six months ago. I know I have dinosaur technologies, but you know what I did with it. Wow. You made dinosaur technologies, you know, go 60 miles an hour. That's amazing. So you validate them and make them right. What seller in the world we'll call it prospect to make them write about the other solution.

[00:22:42] Not very few, very few. Yeah. So, so most people are just quick to bash the solution that they have or go into some sort of scripted, like, Oh, that's great. Many of our customers that had Acme company, you know, found this, this, and this does that resonate with you. Great. We have a solution for that. Right. So that's the more traditional path of using that.

[00:23:08] Mirroring that, you know, talking about how people that used to be with them or now with you. And, and that's the typical path that most people go down. So you're challenging them to, you know, validate them, give them credit, you know, shine a light on them, um, before just trying to put the bandaid on it.

[00:23:25] Yeah. So I've just, this technique has been amazing because you have to remember my first job. I was just making these calls all day. When the phone worked and seven out of 10 executive directors would pick up and be like, I'm not interested. I already have a fundraising technology. Oh, we already do this.

[00:23:42] Oh, it's Bob. And it, no interest all day getting hammered. I'm like, I'm just not good at sales. And then. And I should have convinced I'm trying to put a phone. Yeah. And I just get hung up on and I'd even say the reason for my call and I get clicked out on these scripts. And so I was like, how am I going to get this person?

[00:23:59] Just stay on the phone. So I'm like, I called him. I said, You know, is this John McGillicutty? Oh, yes. Who's this, are you in charge of fundraising? Yes, I am. Interesting. How do you do it today with tech? Oh, well we have these systems from Blackbaud and we're doing this or that's interesting. Or tell me more about that.

[00:24:16] And then like, wait, who are you? I'm like, Oh, I'm with give Zoucks. I have this weird, like fundraising thing. And then I would just say, keep that thing, keep it. We're a fraction of the cost, plug us in and let us be a turbocharger. Right. So it gets them talking, get them talking all about it. How, how is it to, okay.

[00:24:32] What other reps try to do is they try to anticipate these things. So like, Oh yeah. I've heard about Acme Corp. They have horrible service. This is not the goal. You don't want to say anything negative about their competitor, about what they're doing. It's like parent and child, all you're trying to do is be like the supportive parents.

[00:24:48] Becca Holland kind of talks about this too. It's like, it's hard when people have 24 months in their job, they inherit all this garbage tech that they have to make it work. And they're only getting it promoted. If they can get dinosaur tech to work, you can't come in there and tell them dinosaur Tech's bad.

[00:25:02] Oh yeah. We run into dinosaur tech, a lot services, bad. You should come to us. And, and, but even further, they might not have inherited it. They might've been the one. That shows the tech that's totally crapping the bed and to rip and replace that makes them look extremely bad. Um, yeah, exactly. Um, so, um, yeah, so I think that I'm breaking ground by doing something that's radically different, like a thousand people call you, they do this and I do this thing.

[00:25:33] So it's a pattern interrupt. My email systems are pattern interrupt. My call systems are pattern interrupt. Now everybody starts using this method. I'll do something else. Ironically, once my, you know, books and technologies take over and millions of people are doing it, I'll probably have to go. Back to a long form to stick out, but for now it's, it's pretty radical and it's working great for people.

[00:25:53] Yeah. I, I totally can see how this could be extremely effective for people that are, that are not doing it this way. Um, and, and I love that, you know, you're talking about short copy because we've tested that ourselves and are seeing great success with that. Um, but what's, what's interesting is, is, is this cold calling technique?

[00:26:15] And, you know, just to, before we just wrap up, I want to let you know folks know where can they find out more about this work? Can they connect with you all that good stuff? Yeah. So I'm at sales borgs.ai, like seller and cyborg sales, borgs.ai, or Justin Michael on LinkedIn or Twitter, uh, R slash sales boards on Reddit.

[00:26:37] Um, you know, if you contacted me and mentioned the show, Oh, I'll give you all my guides for free. I'll bring you into my community on the discord for free. I just want to see you get results. Uh, full disclosure. I'm not a dark guru guru. If all the reps are doing well, their managers figure it out and want to hire me to train the teams.

[00:26:54] So that's how I make money. Ultimately is doing John Barrow style, uh, sales training, which is fine. Um, I do some one-on-one stuff in classroom stuff. If you're really interesting, I have a, uh, interested, I have a course on Kajabi that you could take and I'm collaborating with a lot of people. So I'd love to hear from you.

[00:27:10] Awesome. We will include all that stuff in the show notes so that it's there for you. Sales hustlers. If you're listening to the podcast, please subscribe, register, review, share with your friends and we're listening for your feedback. Take care. And thanks again, Justin. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle.

[00:27:27] Are you a sales professional? Looking to take your sales career to the next level. If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales, cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host collum Mitchell. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.