Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Nov. 16, 2020

Episode #20 S1-EP20 Legit Sales Advice with Belal Batrawy

Collin welcomes Belal Batrawy in this special episode of Sales Hustle. We will hear from Belal the short version on how he got into sales and how he really developed and got really good at it. A lot of sales takeaways and nuggets are stored in this episode so make sure you stay tuned.


Belal Batrawy is the founder of DeathtoFluff. He works closely with sales teams looking to take a progressive, anti-status quo approach to their operations and excellence.

Like some other sales people, Belal got into sales by accident and he's been in it since then. He has learned a lot in the 10 years that he has been into sales and has been very successful.  He has now dedicated himself to helping sales teams improve and reach success.

To know more about Belal Batrawy, you can check out a Death To Fluff free community at Bravado.co. It’s a peer to peer group of sales people letting you know that you’re not alone in your sales journey. You can also find Belal Batrawy on LinkedIn, he is sharing important stuff daily.

If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.

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Transcript

Episode 20 - Belal

Collin Mitchell: [00:00:00] Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, 

[00:00:05] Belal Batrawy: [00:00:05] where we bring you the 

[00:00:06] Collin Mitchell: [00:00:06] real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for to up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professional transformed the relationship building process and win their dream.

[00:00:29] Clients. I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. What is up sales hustlers. I've got a special guest for you today below the treasury. He is the founder of death to fluff, and we're just going to jump right in and learn a little bit of how bill got into sales bill. I'll give us the short version so that we can save most of the time to talk about sales and debt to fluff, and the things that you're passionate about insects, 

[00:00:54] Belal Batrawy: [00:00:54] that the short version was.

[00:00:55] That was the only job. Hiring at a university, you have everybody else haphazardly to sales. Um, but I did really good. I had a good, I had a good, um, first manager. I just, you know, got lucky, very, very skilled, very educated, very fluent in sales showed me everything today. Much of what I do is still based on what he showed me.

[00:01:17] And I've been in it since it's been 10 years now, uh, in the game. So yeah, just, just a fluke was never intended. I was supposed to be like a finance person or something. I dunno. Something like that. 

[00:01:29] Collin Mitchell: [00:01:29] Very common, very common story that people fall into sales. Get into sales by accident. Or it was their plan B or is the only job they could take for me, it was the only opportunity I could get.

[00:01:39] And that's how I got into sales and like yourself, I've been in sales now for 10 plus years and I wouldn't change a thing. So tell me, um, you know, some of the things that you're seeing in the sales world today, you're very involved in trying to. You know, passionate about, you know, getting people to do things differently.

[00:01:55] Right. 

[00:01:56] Belal Batrawy: [00:01:56] So tell me a little bit about that. You know, so, I mean, it's, it's, it's interesting Collin, cause I I've only been posting on LinkedIn for about a year now. So a year ago I was just another AAE and a CFA EAs I've I've only been in startups. I've been a part of seven. That's all I know. I've been the first hire at a few of them.

[00:02:12] So, uh, it that's like the world. I know like series a, you know, one to 15 million in recurring revenue. And, um, it's amazing how my experience, which you would think is unique and specific. Isn't it? It's not, I'm not special in any way. I've had to fake dials, just like I'm sure sellers that the big companies like Oracle Salesforce, IBM have too as well.

[00:02:34] I've had to fluff my pipeline to get my manager off my back. Um, I've had to, you know, um, show my attitude by sitting at my desk for long hours in the day, even though I didn't need to, because if I got up, it would look bad to look like I wasn't hustling or grinding or working hard. You know, all this sort of stuff, right.

[00:02:53] I've hit, I've hit my goal. Well before plan, but still had to show up to work every day from nine to five, because otherwise, then I'm slacking, even though I it's supposed to be a numbers game, but it never actually really is, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I think I've just seen the same stuff. Every seller who's been in the game long enough has seen.

[00:03:12] And it's amazing that like, it's not like peace and love that transcended, like. Space and time it's, it's like shitty sales management. It's like, like that's the thing that everybody can relate to. So it's, it's a really interesting phenomenon. 

[00:03:27] Collin Mitchell: [00:03:27] This is an interesting topic because it's obviously something that most people don't want to talk.

[00:03:33] So how are you getting people to talk about this type of stuff? 

[00:03:38] Belal Batrawy: [00:03:38] Um, yeah. You know, I, I personally just, I was posting my stories on LinkedIn and what I was surprised of taking that risk was the amount of positivity and overwhelming, uh, acknowledgement that I got from everybody else. And I was just like this whole time, I thought I was alone.

[00:03:58] And I thought I was the crazy one for thinking it was wrong. And it turns out not alone, not crazy at all. And, and then it just, it dawned on me. I was like, wait for every one who may be commented or supported, there's gotta be another hundred that didn't. And then I started getting private messages from sellers being like, I loved your post.

[00:04:17] I can't like it because, you know, XYZ, the scenario I'm in my manager sees what I do and my company monitors my online activity and it would cause issues. And I was like, now I'm going to post for you. I like that gave me fuel to the fire. I mean, like, that's the exact reason why we need to start talking about these things because there's people out there that feel worried to just express an opinion about faking dials or something simple that we should all agree upon.

[00:04:46] Collin Mitchell: [00:04:46] So what are the, what are some of the common things like? So people are faking dials, you know, which. I think a lot of people are aware of that. Right. Just making dials to hit their numbers, to look like they're busy to look like they're active faking pipeline so they don't get fired. So what's the solution, like what's the solution.

[00:05:02] So that's a con maybe, maybe more commonplace than people want to admit. So what's the solution to this. 

[00:05:08] Belal Batrawy: [00:05:08] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where. I'd love to give a simple answer, but we typically oversimplify things. That's not our human nature. And the reality is the answer is probably a hundred things.

[00:05:19] Each of which incrementally add up to the total solution, but there are a couple of things that really stand out. In particular, for example, um, Google did a multi-year study called project oxygen. They spent a bunch of money on this study and they interviewed and studied world-class high-performing teams across the board, and they found 10 characteristics that are common in all of these teams.

[00:05:42] Okay. What their managers have, the components of the team players, all of that. And. One of the lowest ranking factors in a team's performance is the manager's ability to do the job of their employees. We in sales typically promote people based on how they perform as sellers, which is completely backwards.

[00:06:05] So what psychology and these mainstream studies show on how to build world-class management and organizations. You need people who know how to manage other people, not people who know how to do the job. And that's one of the most common, fatal flaws of most sales organizations. You'll see the top reps get promoted to the next level.

[00:06:24] And what do they do? They just apply the same system that they did to their, to their team thinking. That's how you manage. But that's not real management management is about people, not dashboards and metrics and numbers. 

[00:06:37] Collin Mitchell: [00:06:37] Right. And, and, and the thing is, is most great. Sellers are not great managers. Most great sellers will take the promotion.

[00:06:46] Because they feel like they kind of have to, but they don't even necessarily want, have it want it most great sellers would rather just be selling. 

[00:06:53] Belal Batrawy: [00:06:53] Yeah. They get actually worse off. Cause they, they, they lose out on money that they could have been making as an elite seller. 

[00:07:00] Collin Mitchell: [00:07:00] Right. They have that constant like, man, I would just be better if I was just out there doing it myself.

[00:07:05] And they don't even enjoy teaching others and a lot. And I think that, I think that this is a very good point and I'm glad that you brought it up because also the reason that a lot of people promote their bestseller to managers because they think that their industry or what they sell or their service is so unique.

[00:07:21] It only somebody who's been selling. It could teach others how to sell it. And it's so not true. 

[00:07:25] Belal Batrawy: [00:07:25] No, it's not true. That's not true. No, it's not true. And like another component of this as a fact, that the way today sales is built flies in the face of psychology and actually causes mental health issues.

[00:07:37] Like, I mean, I'll give you an example. We all know what it's like when the clock resets to zero, right. Scoreboards always resetting every month, every quarter, every year, there's a overwhelmingly large body of psychology that shows that when you're constantly. Deconstructing your own work and starting from scratch demotivates, you and actually reduces your willingness to keep going.

[00:07:58] And we see a very high burnout rate like sales today is, is failing as a, as a practice because the numbers, especially in like SAS. Exactly. And Salesforce did a study a few years back that found that, um, turnover was increasing year over year. Quota achievement is decreasing year over year. Tenure is decreasing year over year.

[00:08:18] And satisfaction of buyers with sellers is decreasing year over year. So every major indicator is going the wrong direction, but yet teams are still doubling down on the same things over and over again, like stack ranking your sellers by revenue, right? I, I go to any company, any sales floor and you're high odds that you're going to walk in and see a giant monitor that stack ranking everybody based on how many deals they've sold.

[00:08:45] Right. But the deals you've sold as an outcome. Like we all know it's about the journey, not the destination, but you're only, you're only, you know, scored and stack ranked on the destination. Like the dashboard doesn't show. Oh, well that person who's in fourth place actually helped the entire team because they learned a piece of competitive Intel and shared it with everybody else.

[00:09:08] And now that tribal knowledge, the entire team is going to be exponentially better. But that doesn't show up anywhere on the dashboard. Right? You don't get points for that, but that's world-class right. Like a world-class sales organization has sharing of competitive. Intel has teamwork has comradery, but I'd stack ring dashboard.

[00:09:28] Doesn't doesn't measure that. So you're, you're like measuring the wrong things and then you're like, Oh, that's weird. Our top three reps produce, you know, 30, 50, 70% of all revenue. And then everybody else is the remainder. You're like, Well, that's not very healthy. 

[00:09:46] Collin Mitchell: [00:09:46] Hmm. Hmm. All right. So I'm interested to find out what are more of the things that they found in, in the Google study.

[00:09:53] Belal Batrawy: [00:09:53] Um, so the, the, the top things, the top qualities of high performing teams, and this wasn't just. Sales. This was an engineering product. Everything across the board was that there was psychological safety that you had comfort in your own skin to try new things, make mistakes and know that you weren't going to get flamed for it.

[00:10:12] You know, there was a, there was a comfort level of how much risk you could take. And being innovative. So you have that psychological safety, also the safety of speak your mind with your manager and know that that was going to be, uh, you know, kept sacred, right? Not, not used against you as a weapon later on, um, coachability, right?

[00:10:29] That the M the manager gives personalized and individualized feedback. Right. Like, I want to know what I'm doing wrong. I want to compete with my best self. How do you get the best side of me? Cause I don't want general advice. I want advice that's specific to my needs and my concerns as an employee, that was a major part of it.

[00:10:48] Um, and a third major element as well was that these teams, um, their communication. So for example, management is very comfortable in world-class high-performing teams to let the team know what's going on the levels above them. They're not withholding information. They might be filtering it in a way that's digestible for that employee, but they don't, they don't withhold information.

[00:11:10] They let them know what's going on and vice versa. The team feels comfortable giving direct feedback to management and going above management, if necessary to solve an issue, to get things done there, isn't that fear of retaliation that you would see at like a poor or a, uh, uh, not well-designed or well-run team.

[00:11:30] Collin Mitchell: [00:11:30] Mm. Okay. These are some interesting things. So, um, I mean that, that transparency of, of, of telling folks what's going on above them, I could see how that could, you know, create a healthy environment, uh, for the team. And then, you know, giving that personalized feedback, right. Individual feedback, which I think is an important piece and kind of ties back to what you said, right.

[00:11:52] When you're in an environment where. Your top seller gets promoted to a manager. A lot of times their mindset is like, Hey, this is what I did. This is what worked for me. Therefore it should work for everybody, everybody. And that's, that's not the case. Um, and, and that's something that I struggled with myself as, you know, starting as a sales person, going to a VP of sales and then running and building a team.

[00:12:14] A lot of times the mindset was like, Hey, this is what I did when. You know, I first started, this is what worked for me. Why isn't it working for everybody else? And that was a hard lesson to learn because a good coach, a good manager is somebody that knows how to motivate people and knows really how to motivate each person differently and how to coach people what's matters for those individuals.

[00:12:36] Right. And so. If you, if, if not promoting this seller, your top seller to manager, then what is the, what is the better approach? Where do you find that right person to coach, to mentor, to manager your sellers? That isn't your top seller? 

[00:12:52] Belal Batrawy: [00:12:52] Yeah, I mean, there there's, there's a plethora of ways to score. And understand and evaluate people on their people management skills.

[00:12:59] And oftentimes it's not going to be your top seller. It might be someone in the bottom third even, and being comfortable with that. Because even if they're a bottom third rep, they might be a world-class manager. I mean, what difference does it make the sellers on their team? Aren't going to be concerned what their quota how'd you do on your quote, call on, you know, two years?

[00:13:18] I don't give a shit. Can you manage me? Right? Can you support me? Can you move the obstacles out of my way? Great. And then you're a great manager. I don't care if you hit your quota two years ago or not. When you were in a, that doesn't matter to me. It's nice. It builds a little bit of credibility. If you did.

[00:13:31] But it's not the end of the world. If you didn't, you could still be a world-class manager. So I think there are ways some of this stuff comes as operationalizing. What we talked about, like, like what, uh, when I thought about feedback for management and creating a safety space. When I was VP, I created an anonymous survey with those 10.

[00:13:47] Um, requirements that Google found in world-class teams and created a simple scale, one to five, how are we performing poor or very good and everything in between. And I would have my team fill that out and I would send that it was anonymous and it would get sent directly to my boss who was the CFO. So I was literally inviting my team to go over my head.

[00:14:08] I was like, say, what needs to be said is going to go to my boss. He's going to review it. And then I'm going to sit down with him and he's going to tell me what you guys are saying about me anonymously. So like literally you can operationalize this world-class culture. There, there are ways to do it that we just don't do today.

[00:14:26] In sales, 

[00:14:27] Collin Mitchell: [00:14:27] you got to create that safe pace, safe space, people to be able to voice their opinions or give the feedback. Right. Which I think is not so common. 

[00:14:39] Belal Batrawy: [00:14:39] No, no. 

[00:14:40] Collin Mitchell: [00:14:40] A lot. A lot. A lot of people are holding back with. What they're willing to say, because they're scared they're going to lose their job or it's going to be used against them.

[00:14:48] And that's why you see a lot of these peer communities popping up kind of similar to yours. There's a lot of others as well, where salespeople are getting together with other salespeople. Where they can just be totally raw, authentic and honest about like, Hey, I need help with this. Hey, what would you do about this?

[00:15:07] I'm struggling with this and just talking to other, you know, peer-to-peer salespeople. 

[00:15:12] Belal Batrawy: [00:15:12] Yeah. Yeah, because up here it gets it and you're actually, it's almost in some cases safer to talk to a peer than a colleague. You know, cause there's, you can trust somebody who's not involved independent of your company.

[00:15:24] Then you could somebody internally who might use your words against you or, you know, play politics with something that you said. So you actually feel more comfortable speaking to somebody from another company. That's a peer than a colleague. Yeah. I mean, these are like, I, I've never seen a sales team in all and all the companies that I've been at, I never seen a sale and this is something I did when I was VP.

[00:15:43] I told my sellers, if you find an innovative way, To beat the curve, right? Improve our metrics and email that gets better responses. Somehow you can book meetings by doing less calls, whatever it is, I'll pay you for it. I'll pay you for it. I'll give you money for that. Because if you teach that to the rest of the team, it's incremental for you.

[00:16:01] You know, you might go from making 80% to a hundred percent of quota, but if you teach it to the other people on the team, that's exponential. Right, because now you're, you're doing a multiplier effect from the tribal knowledge that you figured out. You're a pioneer. Tell us while I have a, I have a friend who, he's the number one seller at his company.

[00:16:21] And on most friends, he spends half the day faking dials because they have a scoring system for metrics and activity. And if he doesn't hit his. Activity points for the week. He gets a slap on the wrist or he can be written up even though he's number one. I'm like instead of them sitting down and dissecting how he's beating the curve and doing it better, they're actually making him waste his time by faking dials, 

[00:16:47] Collin Mitchell: [00:16:47] which the conversation should actually be, how are you doing more with less dials and how can we, how can we.

[00:16:54] You know, figure that out right. And help the rest of 

[00:16:57] Belal Batrawy: [00:16:57] everybody else out with that. Achieve it. 

[00:16:58] Collin Mitchell: [00:16:58] Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, all right, so this is interesting. Um, all right. So tell me these. Okay. So these individuals that are. You know, scared to speak up or even share something that's working for them. Is it because that you're so competitive, like, you know, they want to be number one and they don't want to share it with somebody else.

[00:17:22] Like what's, what's the reason that there isn't more collaboration amongst sales teams. 

[00:17:29] Belal Batrawy: [00:17:29] Simply put because we, we, so when I think about my own personal growth, right, I love a good Pat on the back, like who doesn't, who doesn't love to be acknowledged and appreciated for the effort that they do. If I sit there and I help a teammate write a killer response to a really tough email, And really give it my all, we spent a good 20, 30 minutes that doesn't show up on any of the CRM dashboards.

[00:17:52] Again, it's not there. Right. And, and my manager won't care at the end of the month that I did that. They're going to just be concerned again about the outcome. What was, how much revenue did you produce this month? And maybe that email, or maybe that time spent on that did cost me something. Cause if I do it for every team, every team member, every now and again, maybe it ends up taking away five, 10% of what I could have hit and total quarter.

[00:18:19] But, but what I did was I enabled them to maybe achieve even more than that. Right? Like the net effect is greater by me helping my teammates, but I'm only graded my individual performance. There's this lie that it's like a team sport. It's not a team sport. You're you're truly are a mercenary, lone Wolf.

[00:18:37] In sales, you're given a territory, you're given your leads. You're told to go sell them and that's that. And yeah, you have one-on-ones and occasional team meetings and so on, and you might bring up a good word, but again, the dashboards are exclusively focused on stack, ranking you on outcomes, outcomes, and outputs only.

[00:18:54] And, and so that's what you do. I mean, if you're a top, imagine this, imagine a sales organization that said when you hit 120% of quota, screw trying to get 130. We're just going to pay you a lump sum and you go help everybody else. That's less than a hundred percent of quota. Try to get there. And if you can help even one person reach a hundred percent of quota, we'll pay you as if you hit 150%, because we want to promote that.

[00:19:20] You know, it's not like you just get to keep feasting. You, you did a great job. You're done, but instead, most sales organizations will say, no, I want my top rep to be at 200, 300% a quarter. Why don't they keep going? It's not it's uncapped commissions. It's like, because the rest of the team suffers while only one performance stellar, would you rather have half your team above quota or have the top reps crushing it and everybody else on a long tail?

[00:19:46] Missing quota, which is what you commonly see in most sales organizations. So this is a backwards mentality. We're, we're, we're spitting in the face of psychology or spitting in the face of, um, organizational development. This stuff is a new, like, I'm not a pioneer here. Like some researcher, this stuff's been researched the hell out of it for decades and we just don't apply it in sales for some reason.

[00:20:08] Collin Mitchell: [00:20:08] All right. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna play devil's advocate just for a minute. Now saying that I disagree with what you're saying, but just to kind of talk about the other side of it, right? So for somebody managing a team or an, or right, if do they care, I mean, it's, from what you're saying, it's apparent that most don't right.

[00:20:27] They just care about hitting the numbers. What, like, whether it's half of the team hitting quota or 10% of the top beam, two or 300% of the quota, does it matter? 

[00:20:38] Belal Batrawy: [00:20:38] It does for the long-term health of the company. Think about like this very few sales organizations actually know the measurement of the cost of losing a seller.

[00:20:50] Because it's not just simply, well, then we'll just have to replace them all the pipeline. They developed all the tribal knowledge that they learned about the product, the competitors, the pricing, the industry, the vertical, all of that goes with them. You have to take somebody and potentially, I completely reconfigure all of that for them.

[00:21:08] It's going to take them several months or more to catch up to speed. And even by then, they might not be as good as the person who left. You don't even know for sure until you see the output. So we have this very, like short-term mentality in sales. We're always driving for like, it's the same thing that happens at end of quarter.

[00:21:24] In many sales organizations, uh, sales teams will burn through opportunities because they got to get the number. Right because the clock is going, gonna reset the next quarter and this is it. And you got to make your money. So you'll have pushy salespeople, right? The classic thing that, you know, buyers hate pushy salespeople doing cheesy tactics, like expiration dates on pricing.

[00:21:47] And this, then the other stuff that we know doesn't actually really work. Because there's this massive push for a short-term goal, instead of thinking about long-term health of the company. A great example of this, by the way, Colin is, um, Mark Roberto has been talking about, you know, the, the, the famous CRO of HubSpot he's been talking about.

[00:22:06] Tying salespeople to, um, LTV right. Lifetime value of a customer, because the reality is two sellers can sell a deal. One turns in eight months, one stays for three years and think about the difference in impact of revenue of a customer that stays three years of versus the one that stays eight months, but most comp plans.

[00:22:27] In fact, the significant, vast majority of compliments, you would never see a difference between rewarding somebody for it. A client that could stay three years versus one that leaves in eight months. It's not how it's designed. We don't think about it that way. We just pay on the point of sale. It's very transactional.

[00:22:43] It's very short-sighted. And that's why you see, um, even though I think according to that, exactly in Salesforce study, it's some stupid number, like 79% of sellers. Miss quota. But the interesting tidbit in there is 79% of companies. Don't miss revenue, targets companies still hit revenue, targets, sellers are missing quota.

[00:23:07] We are the collateral damage of our own system because when we miss quota, we get fired. Right. But the company knows how to play the numbers game and says, okay, well, if our goal is X. Then it's X divided by the number of sellers we have, which means we're near to going to hire five more than that number and give them a quota that's 20% higher than the actual goal.

[00:23:31] And the math will all work itself out. And they'll just be some people who get lost in the churn and they'll get fired. All 

[00:23:38] Collin Mitchell: [00:23:38] right. So all, all of this makes a lot of sense and I agree with a lot of it. Right? However, the there's there's no. Unless there's leadership buy-in nothing's going to change, right?

[00:23:50] I mean, that's, that's the reality. So how does a, a E or SDR or BDR that's in sales that has to deal with this stuff? How do they, what's the solution 

[00:24:04] Belal Batrawy: [00:24:04] for them? 

[00:24:06] Collin Mitchell: [00:24:06] How can they do things differently? Where can they find support? Where can they, you know, talk with other sellers, create their own safe space, you know, to be able to still, you know, have a job and make an income, even though they might not, might not be the most ideal way of leadership or healthiest, you know, sales org.

[00:24:30] Belal Batrawy: [00:24:30] Yeah, that's a, it's a tough question. It's a great question. It's a, it's a really tough question. I am one of those ones that it doesn't have a simple answer. I mean, the, the ugly answer is a BDR SDR, and Sheila, we can't really cost change and that's, and I, and that's partly why going back to your point, why these micro-communities are popping up now?

[00:24:48] Why weren't they there 10 years ago, when I started in sales, LinkedIn was there. All you know, Slack has been around for a long time. Why those Slack communities only now for sales when there weren't, when Slack first started? Why, why did it take so long? Because we're at a point where the system's really breaking.

[00:25:04] Like it, it, it's just not going very well today. Buyers are equipped to do so much before they speak to the seller and they're doing every bit of it. They're going to peer groups to get, um, referrals and word of mouth references. They're going to websites like G2 and Trustpilot and trust radius to look at reviews, they're avoiding sellers and trying to go through self service funnels.

[00:25:27] They don't want to have a conversation around pricing. They want to see it on the website. Like there is. The buyer behavior is forcing companies to change how they sell. And the reality is, again, we're the collateral damage, right? We're, we're the ones that, that ended up getting impacted the most, the seller is when this sort of stuff happens.

[00:25:46] So, you know, the change is coming because you've got people like Andy Paul, the famous podcasts are saying that elite sellers should be like elite athletes. They, they shouldn't have an agent and it shouldn't be taboo for an elite seller to jump teams and companies. Because they can sell whatever they want to sell and make great money.

[00:26:05] You've got again, like bravado and seven, one story saying, why don't you make money out of your network? I mean, they're your customers, whether you work for the company or you leave, they all know you. Why don't you turn those into cash and, and, and make money off your network and your referrals. You've got groups like rev genius and revenue collective, who are.

[00:26:24] Yeah, empowering the rights of sellers against their companies like revenue collective, which is a really interesting community, helps all these VPs negotiate their severance packages. Um, negotiate. Uh, equity for performance instead of tenure, because all of us know you don't, you don't last four years at a company.

[00:26:46] The average tenure for a head of sale is less than 18 months. And that's also on the decline too. So I think there's pushback now. I think we are seeing change. Um, but it's gonna take a while because. The bottom line is this, and this is maybe my, my own personal opinion. It's not necessarily, uh, something that I have a ton of data on, but in my view, my experience, the employee employer relationship in the U S is extremely unhealthy because it's totally stacked on the employer side.

[00:27:19] Wherever job you start your first day, you signed a handbook where you waive basic rights, that in any other context, you would never wave. Like you can't bad mouth, the company till death, do you part, and also your grandkids can't either, right? You can, the company bad mouth. You absolutely. It doesn't say anything about what the company can do.

[00:27:36] Right. Um, you know, everything you do belongs to the company, no matter what it is, no about how cool it is. Doesn't matter if you touch anything, belongs to the company, it's there, you know, period, the end non-competes that actually go against the law. And in some States are challenged quite often by lawyers.

[00:27:52] We are shit like that. You go to a, you go to a company and they end up having like a bad sales organization and you only stay there six months and leave. It's not, it's not the company's fault. You're the job hopper right now. You've got to explain for the rest of your life while you only had a six months, did.

[00:28:08] At that company, instead of being like that company sucked, they lied to me in the interview and it ended up being that the product wasn't, what it claimed to be. And management was terrible. You know, you can't say that as a job seeker, right? No, it's, it's so wrong as a job seeker to tell the truth about.

[00:28:23] Hey, I ended up at a bad company. Believe it or not, they exist, but go to any talent page of any employer. They're world-class they're number one in something they're the best of this, the best of that, they have the best culture. I'm like, I didn't know. All of us could be the best. We're all snowflakes who knew there was not a bad company in America.

[00:28:42] Collin Mitchell: [00:28:42] Do you have any examples where you feel people are doing things different are doing things. The right way or, you know, starting to adopt some of these changes, um, in sales organizations, 

[00:28:55] Belal Batrawy: [00:28:55] you mean like, um, leaders or companies in particular that I'm seeing it from? Yeah. Yeah. You know, like a great person to follow is Kevin Dorsey, Katie over at PatientPop.

[00:29:05] He has, uh, You know, just a mentality of performance and self-growth and improvement that is addicting. And he has operationalized that for his entire sales organization. It's really beautiful to see you've got authors like Todd caponi and David primer who are writing books like the transparency sell and sell the way you buy that are talking about the right way to sell.

[00:29:29] Um, that are talking about flipping things on their head, being open about your competitors, being open and upfront about your pricing, telling people why the product probably isn't a right fit for them and letting them decide, um, just, just the right way to do sales. That again, kind of flies in the face of.

[00:29:45] You know, sales bro, common culture mentality. Um, so yeah, I think, I think it's happening, but again, it's all in pockets and the reality is those are, those are the exception, not the norm. The norm today is typically poor performing high turnover, quota, missing top performers and everybody else, and a big Gulf in between.

[00:30:06] That's that's typically the common case.

[00:30:12] Collin Mitchell: [00:30:12] well, thank you so much for coming on today and talking about some of these things that people don't want to talk about. I appreciate it. Um, and tell people where they can connect with you, where they can, you know, learn more about your community and all that good stuff. 

[00:30:27] Belal Batrawy: [00:30:27] Yeah. So I, you know, I took my crack at China, former community on this.

[00:30:30] We've got a free community on bravado, it's death, the fluff.provato.co. We can put the link somewhere for everyone to see that, um, that's a safe place. You're going to find a lot of like-minded individuals in there that get this sort of stuff. And, um, we are that peer group, just trying to let each other know, Hey, you're not alone.

[00:30:47] And you're not crazy. There's a whole bunch of others like us that agree. And, um, and we're all looking for the, the right places that are, that are showing good examples to follow. Um, and on LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm posting this stuff daily. Um, you know, I think there is a, um, Uh, I real, I see it. Maybe, maybe my LinkedIn feed in the algorithm skewing my perspective, but I just see a lot more people talking about this now than I did even just a year ago.

[00:31:17] And that's really the first step. Like I saw a friend of mine. Jeff Risely just started the mental health sales Alliance. Um, just addressing mental health and sales. You know, burnout, stress, anxiety, depression, and so on. That comes from feeling like you're not good enough. Uh, I've personally been the top seller at five of the startups.

[00:31:36] I worked at Colin and I was dead last at two. And I tell you what I learned more being dead last, those two companies and at the five being number one, because the way you get looked at the way you get dealt with the way you get treated is very different. When you're at the bottom of the stack than when you're at the top of the stack.

[00:31:54] Um, so I, I think there's, there's things like that. I recommend everybody to take a look at, because again, there, there, there is a growing movement and the status quo isn't working 

[00:32:07] Collin Mitchell: [00:32:07] well. Thanks bill. All for coming on. Appreciate it. We will drop the link in the show notes and thanks so much for coming on.

[00:32:12] Appreciate it 

[00:32:13] Belal Batrawy: [00:32:13] much appreciated. Thanks for having me. It's my honor. Thank you 

[00:32:17] Collin Mitchell: [00:32:17] for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales cast.com, check 

[00:32:32] Belal Batrawy: [00:32:32] us out. 

[00:32:32] Collin Mitchell: [00:32:32] And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell.

[00:32:40] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review. And share the podcast with your friends.