Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Nov. 9, 2020

Episode #17 S1-EP17 Motivate your Sales Team through Psychology with Calvin Patterson

In this episode of Sales Hustle, Collin welcomes a fantastic guest Calvin Patterson IV to the show. We’ll hear from Calvin on his story on how he got into sales. There’s a lot of tactical messages that Calvin and Collin discussed in this episode that will surely help you up your sales game.


Calvin Patterson IV is the founding member and head of mentorship of RevGenius. He also recently joined Concert as the head of Business Development.

Calvin talks about some sales processes and sales practices that can definitely help salespeople. Tons of good stuff from this episode for people who're looking to get into sales or sales folks who want to improve their sales game.

You can connect personally with Calvin via LinkedIn. Also, Calvin has a special treat to share with everyone that's definitely going to help a lot of folks to improve. Please refer to this Document that Calvin put together. They are like little snippets from what Calvin learned that he likes to share with everyone.

If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.

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Transcript

Episode #17 S1-EP17  Motivate your Sales Team through Psychology with Calvin Patterson

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales change makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for to up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building.

[00:00:27] Process and win their dream clients. I'm your host? Colin Mitchell. All right. What has happened in sales hustlers? I've got Calvin Patterson, uh, who is an a E at a concert and also one of the founding members at rev genius. We're going to learn a little bit more about his story and bring you some tactical sales tips.

[00:00:49] So you can up your game in sales, Calvin. Welcome to the show and thanks for coming on today. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So tell folks a little bit about yourself and how you got into sales. Yeah. So, uh, I got into sales, I think, uh, everyone, I feel like, kind of says they fell into sales at some way, shape or form.

[00:01:09] And I think I actually kind of fell into sales a little bit. Earlier than most people, when it comes to a unique situation, I got interested and got involved in college. So there's actually about 200 colleges. Now that actually have some type of like sales organization. And I happen to be going to a college that had a sales minor at the time that I was there.

[00:01:39] And so I took this intro to sales class. Cause I heard it was it's really easy. I was like, Oh, Oh yeah, cool. This is going to get me an a towards like my marketing minor. So I was a psych major. Um, I think there's a lot of relationships actually with, uh, psychology and business overall, but I think it's really evident.

[00:02:01] In sales overall. And that's like one of the things that really interested me. Um, but I went into this intro sales class kind of thought used car salesman, like no screw that like, you know, suit and tie, like all this craziness, I'm like no, never happening. And then, you know, hearing that, there's actually this thing called, like, You know, value based selling and you can actually really care about your customer and want to be helping people.

[00:02:31] And that's where a lot of the best salespeople are coming from that perspective, you know, given there's definitely some people out there that are just in it for the money. Yeah, there's still plenty of those. My good friend, Larry Levine likes to say that the prospects can smell your commission breath from a mile away.

[00:02:49] But I think what's super interesting is I didn't realize there's actually 20 Cal arts. You said 200 colleges that offer some sort of sales course. Uh I'm I'm very curious to learn more about what was covered. Yeah. So one of the things that really stood out to me, like my intro to sales cost, wasn't. That great.

[00:03:09] Um, but I think, you know, I was able to turn, uh, turn the tides from. Really actually failing. So we did like mock pitches and we had, there's actually a sales competitions that happen and everything it's pretty like crazy what's out there now. Um, so in this intro to sales class, like part of our grade was actually on doing a mock pitch.

[00:03:32] So given we're doing a mock pitch with another student, so it was really hard. Cause they don't really know what they're doing either. They don't know how to be a good buyer and like kind of string you along, but not make it too easy. Um, so I failed my first mock pitch in my intro to sales class, but really loved the class thought it was super interesting.

[00:03:53] I think one of the things that stood out was like, my teacher was one of the first teachers that wasn't, it wasn't just like, here's a textbook or here I'm going to read from slides. There's a lot of. Oh, it's like to bring in people from the real world and have people who are actually in sales roles, come speak to us.

[00:04:12] And that was like, what kind of put me over the top. And then I had a advanced sign class, which I, you know, I, I loved it so much. And that like really connected with me. I went on to the advanced sign class. I also had an internship between those two classes at Paychex. So got exposed to the, you know, real corporate role.

[00:04:34] Um, let's back up one second. So did you, did I hear correctly? You failed your mock pitch? So what, what, what, what, uh, what deemed a fail on the mock pitch? Uh, basically we were supposed to go through like spin selling and, you know, I was one of the first people to go. And like I said, it was like a student buyer.

[00:04:56] It was like very difficult to kind of get them to kind of say the things you wanted them to. Um, and I also was like one of the first to go and just like it wasn't done well.

[00:05:10] Um, Yeah. Yeah. Like overall, it was just like, not, not great. Um, all right. So, so regardless of that, you, you still, you still were interested in, in and went into the more advanced, uh, sales class. Yeah, well, so I mean, I actually went, so I had the internship at paychecks, you know, fortune 100 or whatever they are.

[00:05:31] And, uh, you know, I was the first intern there, so I got kind of exposed. Really early on to being early at a company. And so I was like the first intern. So basically kind of like making my own things and doing like whatever. And I was basically, again, here's a phone, here's the list, like call and, uh, was able to see some good success metrics there though.

[00:05:55] Uh, I think it was about 60%. Of my meetings actually, that I had set up kind of like moved to close, like closed opportunities. So that was pretty cool to see. Um, but it was really just like sitting in a room, make dials, and I kinda realized I don't really want that full aspect, um, that wasn't fully from me and kind of heard like the.

[00:06:18] You know, if you're really in the true SMB space, the transactional sales side. Um, I think it, it, it works for some people and some people, I love it. They love the, Hey, you can walk in one day when you close a deal. Um, but then you can also, you know, walk in and. Yo completely not doing anything well. Um, but there's that aspect of hearing more transactional that you can have those, if you have a really bad day yesterday, you could have an amazing day tomorrow, like a lot more up and down.

[00:06:47] Um, and I kind of saw that, that it wasn't really, for me as much where yeah, it's great to be able to help like Joe's pizzeria and everything, but I also kind of realized in that side, um, you know, you're not. It's more just about, okay, well, this is the same kind of pitch to everybody. Instead of getting to know their business over all it's more pitching product services, features, awards, company, savings, price, very transactional, not very relationship focused, but I mean, It sounds like you had some fantastic success in that internship, your first experience to sales.

[00:07:26] Um, what, what do you think are some key takeaways or things that you learned early on in that, um, that you would share with folks that are maybe just getting into sales right now? Yeah. So the biggest thing is rejection. You're going to get rejected and hung up on all the time and not to take things personal.

[00:07:43] I still struggle with that. All the time thing, everybody kinda does is like, you still like really wanted that guy to say yes, and like book a meeting with you or, you know, sign that contract. And, you know, sometimes there's things that are out of your control. Um, so that being like the biggest takeaway there is like control what you can and like, what can you control?

[00:08:03] Like, okay, what. Did I like do a post-mortem like, what, what did I do well on that call? Like what could I have done better? Yeah. Okay, cool. I could have done that better. Like let's continue trying to do that. Or, Hey, I had a great pitch. It's just a bad time, like, Oh, well onto the next one. Um, and that's kinda like what I learned a little bit in that volume side and took that with me to them, my internship in my advanced selling class, where again, it was doing real-world application, which is what I loved.

[00:08:34] And then this in my advanced selling class, I was one of the top four people that then got up. Pick to actually go to selling competitions, like, uh, there's national competitions that have like hundreds of colleges that will like go to them. Um, so it was able to compete there and I love sale, like the aspect of sales that I actually then started a, um, An organization called PI Sigma Epsilon.

[00:09:00] So I think there's about a hundred chapters, just under a hundred chapters. I forget the exact number, um, across the country. And so I helped found that chapter at Bloomsburg knowing, Hey, this isn't actually going to impact me necessarily in a huge amount, but it's about actually starting something. And then being able to leave that legacy and impact for other people.

[00:09:23] Cause I understood that. I came in thinking used car salesman, suit, and tie. Like, all you care about is money, but then finding out that there is this huge value side to sales and like, All the, like tons of CEOs come from sales, like you're an example of being in a CRO role. Like you're came from, you know, sales, like it it's the framework for a lot of things and understanding.

[00:09:47] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, any, any, any successful entrepreneur or founder you'd better be good at sales or they're not going to go very far. You know, so sales is such a, you know, A skill that can go with you wherever you go in, in a, in a career or future or, or whatever the case is. But I want to go back a couple steps for a second.

[00:10:06] So, um, a couple of things that stood out is, you know, one of the things you mentioned is, you know, is basically, you know, dealing with rejection, right? Biggest part of success in sales is your mindset. Um, and one of the things that I learned early on, and I had a similar experience where like, there wasn't a lot of training and yeah.

[00:10:23] You know, I kind of was left to my own if I wanted to get better at my craft. Um, you know, which put me on a path of seeking out books and courses and coaches and blogs and podcasts and things like that. Um, which a lot of salespeople end up doing there wasn't as many communities, um, that like there is now like these peer based communities, but.

[00:10:42] That mindset and dealing with rejection. And one of the, one of the things that I, you know, was taught early on that still sticks with me today, um, is, you know, some will some won't next call, you know? And sometimes you just have to like remind yourself of that when, you know, for whatever reason. This time that you're being rejected again, you know, hurts a little more.

[00:11:05] Um, and anybody who's successful in sales gets more nos than yeses. I mean, and anybody who says otherwise, I think is frankly full of shit. Yeah, it does. 30% is like a good close ratio. And, you know, just even looking at that alone, you're like, Well, that means you're failing 70% of the time like that. And usually, Hey, it's 30.

[00:11:27] It's probably more like 20 everybody's relaxed. Most people fluff their numbers just a little bit. Um, you know, but, so, all right, so then, wow. All right. So then you went on this, these, uh, you went on to these. Sales competitions. Tell me about these. I mean, this is like a whole nother, you have like such a non-traditional way of getting into sales.

[00:11:51] Like you said, early on it, most people fall into sales. It was their plan B. They hated everything about sales. Never wanted to be into sales, but it was the only job they could get. Or, you know, basically that's the more common path, but like, you actually went to school for sales. I mean, I, I. Yeah, this was like my last year of school.

[00:12:09] So like I still fell into it in a weird way, but I fell into it a lot earlier, like than most people and became like passionate and understanding the value that you can really provide. If, if, if, if done. Well, I think that, uh, I think John Barrows is saying is like, if done, well, it's the best job in the world, but if done like horribly, it's the worst job ever, something like that.

[00:12:34] But, you know, It really is true is because like you're dealing with the rejection every single day. Um, and then you also, you, you really have to, I think I'm realizing this more and more like related to my current role is actually being in a role that you're passionate about. Like what you're selling can make.

[00:12:55] A huge impact. And a lot of people need to like really hear that. Right? So listen up sales, help sellers, because you know, it's an important piece. A lot of people kind of don't really believe at their core that you have to be passionate about what you do to be successful, but it does make a big difference.

[00:13:10] Right. Cause if you're not passionate, there's, there's, you know, you don't really, truly believe in the solution that you're providing or how you're helping others or how, what you do can benefit, you know, these other businesses. Um, there's kind of like a ceiling. You know, if you have a real deep, why you're doing what you do at your core, you're going to, you know, your successes is limitless.

[00:13:31] Yeah. And I think there's different levels to it too as well. Like, um, you know, I I've definitely had some passions for like what my previous companies did. Like I wouldn't have taken the role in the first place if I didn't think it was interesting what they're doing. Um, but I've definitely like looked at some companies that sell software.

[00:13:50] To like engineering and other like dev op roles. And I was like, Hmm, it doesn't really connect with me. And, you know, that's kind of what I've realized through that process. Like interviewing I haven't a unique experience when it comes to interviewing as well as I kind of had known that the sales role was like for me, but I came out of school, like kind of a little cocky, I think, uh, um, where I just knew I was going to be successful and, you know, That's like my thought process and I know I'm going to be successful in whatever role I'm going into.

[00:14:23] So I'm talking like, all right, like, how am I getting from an SDR role to an eight E role? Cause I kind of realized I wanted to go into more of the software sales and realize, Oh, okay. Like, um, the ADP Paychex, like these other companies have great trainings. But I didn't feel like it was for me cause selling, I wanted to go more mid market Marshall, um, possibly have the ability to like enterprise, maybe down the road.

[00:14:52] Um, I didn't want to go straight to SMB, so that's kind of why I took the SDR role and. I actually interviewed with, I think it was like 59 companies or something ridiculous right out of school. Cause I was going through the process was only looking at those top of the top schools. I mean, top of the top companies that like, Oh, they're a fortune 50 fortune 100.

[00:15:15] They have all these rankings, blah, blah, blah. But you've, I think you kind of find out, guess what? There's all a lot of fluff there. You know, you can talk to anybody at any company and you're gonna find people that are happy and you're going to find people that aren't happy. So it's about like, where do you think you're going to fit?

[00:15:37] A large company is an amazing fit for some people. A small company is an amazing fit for other people. And then some people want to be in the middle. Like I realized as going through the interview process that the more small like growth and like mid-size company was where, what, what fit me. I may want to just feel like I was a cog on a wheel, and I know that you can kind of be in a larger organization and still have a big impact within that certain segment.

[00:16:06] But for me, It, uh, it just didn't fully click. Um, I did, I kind of hated the structure and I still think I kind of, that's always kind of been in me and you can kind of see that in, you know, starting an organization and you know, now being the first sales rep at a startup, um, you know, again, it wasn't something like I was looking for, but the opportunity presented itself and kind of took the leap of faith.

[00:16:34] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an important piece, you know, especially now with the current situation, a lot of people are going to be getting into sales, falling into sales sales, going to be their fallback plan, which is the more traditional common story that I hear. Um, and I think that it's an important piece for people to consider is, you know, Before just taking the first job that you get, which may seem like the right thing to do, um, is really to consider, or, you know, what is more in alignment with you or what type of company you might, you know, fit in better, whether it's a large, medium or small, um, and it could make a big difference of.

[00:17:13] You know how long you stay there or if it becomes, you know, a successful career for you, or if there's a path for, um, you in, in a sales role to, to move up, you know, making sure that you're picking something that, that does align well with, you know, this is going to light you up. It's going to, you know, you can find passion in, um, now for you, your experience of now having been in larger companies, mid-sized companies and now, you know, small startup, um, What's your preference and why?

[00:17:45] I don't know. I mean, I, don't not, not, not really big, definitely not the massive companies. Um, but like right now, you know, I love the aspect of building things of being on the ground floor, but there's a lot more shit you eat, like to say the least, you know, even the difference. But you can make more of an impact or feel like you're making more of a difference for the organization as a whole.

[00:18:10] Right. So there's pros to that. Like, is it worth it? Is it worth eating that shit too? Like, Feel better about what you're doing is making a difference for you and the whole team. Yeah. And I, I think that, you know, those are kind of the biggest factors is, you know, when can you get to the point? Cause I think some people are at the point early on that they realized it's about the passion versus the money than other people.

[00:18:35] It is just about, okay. Like let me just find the highest paying job and that's all that matters, you know? So being able to find the balance and like whatever. Goes into that. Like a lot of people might get into sales because of the money, but then realizing, Oh, okay. I can actually, you know, like this, and then, you know, you might move into management because you actually like helping people and you're not really selling them any anymore.

[00:18:58] And that you don't have that insanity. You get into management, not because of the money you get into management because you like leadership. And helping other people. And I think too, is that like, that's the path. Sometimes some people kind of get too caught up in is like, that's okay. That's an interesting topic though, because, um, you know, there's a lot of talk about this and in, in a lot of times, top sellers going to management and it's not the right place for them.

[00:19:24] You know, I was gonna say, yeah, yeah. It's like the people, good managers are the people that know how to motivate people who know how to, you know, have the emotional skillset to really understand people and how different they are and what makes them tick and what motivates them and what people want.

[00:19:42] Right. You know, some people like being in limelight, some people don't, some people have personal goals that drive them. Some people, you know, are more passionate about helping and serving. Like there's so many different ways to motivate people. And the best managers are leaders of the people that know how to do that.

[00:19:56] You know, for those different types of people and, you know, top sellers that end up going into management, which is a common thing that happens usually are the worst managers, because they'd rather be selling, that's what they're good at. And they think that everybody should produce the way that they produce.

[00:20:10] And why is it that working? Yeah. And I think I've had this conversation with, especially like. I think it's been great that there's been some more communities. I think that I've kind of sparked up since coronavirus has hit because out of necessity is like, you're not meeting people and having those in-person exchanges, whether it be personal or work.

[00:20:32] So, you know, if you can actually have some of that work, I think. You know, like we talked about, I was like rev genius. Provato like, all of these other communities are really beneficial and that's kind of come to the top of light. I think that you have a lot of people in those situations and it kind of creates the churn and burn.

[00:20:50] And you have like these leaders that. We kind of touched on before is all of their, they're not really, um, leaders, they're they're managers like in anybody can kind of stare at a dashboard and go, Oh, like, you know, hit this number, hit this number. It's like, okay, well, where did that number actually come from?

[00:21:08] That's like part of the issue I think is we're not. Creating the right numbers too. And that's actually like why I got passionate about my company is like, my CEO reached out to me, like going into the job interview, I got laid off and coronavirus boom. I was, you know, I built a personal brand. I posted on LinkedIn within a week of.

[00:21:28] Getting laid off. I was interviewing with this company like that. I got I'm working out right now. And the CEO had reached out to me. He's like, yeah, Hey, you know, we're sales commission, automation plot platform, you know, we're built on behavioral and neuropsychology. And I was like, What is this built for me?

[00:21:44] Like, Oh my God, like, Oh God, I have to at least interview, you know, and kind of like sail a V from there, like, you know, things kind of just took off. And I said it was earlier than was most ideal for me, but. It's super exciting. And you know, we're really actually trying to change the market overall. Like when it comes to numbers, people, you know, you have this standard that, um, when it comes to, Oh, people think that the career path is kind of go to management.

[00:22:13] It's the same thing too. When you hear I'm sure you've heard this phrase. Oh, everybody's not supposed to hit quota. Why. Why is that a saying, like, why is that a thing? Somebody just said that at some point, yeah. It's just been passed along. It's like, if you actually do the right budgeting, It doesn't matter.

[00:22:32] Like you're, if you do the right budgeting, you should actually be wanting that instead it turns into, Oh, let's set this really high OTE. And then we bring people in because of that. And people think they're going to make this huge amount of money, but nobody's really then attaining that. Um, and that's like the big thing too, is like thinking of the psychology behind.

[00:22:54] Goal setting is what are quotas causes are actually goals that you're trying to reach. Yeah, I've heard, I've heard some people talk about like, you know, reps should be compensated based on lifetime value of a customer. Not just, you know, the deal or the ACV, right? Like how long the customer stays versus how long a customer churns.

[00:23:16] Right? Because the reps that are really doing a good job of building the relationship selling properly, really, you know, um, those customers stay longer and are worth more. Maybe the deal size is smaller. Maybe the monthly recurring is smaller, but if that customer stays with the company for two or five years and somebody else who maybe has a larger deal, bigger quota is hitting the numbers, but their deals are turning every six to nine months.

[00:23:42] Who who should be compensated? Yeah, I think that's like, it's one of the, like conundrums in sales. Um, you know, as a rep, the, one of the things that like we really say is, you know, what can you focus on? And it's about, like I mentioned before, controlling the controllables. So as a rep, Yes, you can say, like you can close the most ideal persona and like the most ideal company and you had a great relationship, but guess what, that's actually out of your control of the product breaks.

[00:24:12] You know, they had a bad experience, you know, now they're speaking with a customer success person, you know, it's. You know, we've moved away from this full sales cycle. We are not managing the account and there are so many other factors. And then that's where I think, again, it's what is controllable for the rep?

[00:24:27] It's as an SDR, what's controllable setting the meeting and you can't control. If it moves from a stage zero to a stage one, or stage one to a stage two, whatever your company calls it, that's out of your control. You actually set the meeting, which is what your goal is to as an E. I mean, it's even, it's even hard for, it's even hard for them to control whether they show up or not.

[00:24:48] Like, I mean, even if you do your job perfectly, you know, shit happens and they might not show up. You know, or they might've told you everything that you wanted to hear, but they're still not going to show up. Right. So there's definitely, it's something very hard to track because there's just so many variables, but it's definitely something that I've heard more recently that I thought was interesting.

[00:25:08] Um, you know, because like you said, you know, if it could be a support issue, it could be, but you know, there's also the argument that, well, Maybe the deal should have never been sold in the first place because the seller may be over promised. Right. Or it wasn't the right solution to whatever their problem was.

[00:25:23] So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to track how really track down or did like, did the seller do a good job or not versus like, did you know customer success or support shit the bed and that's why they left. Yeah. It's yeah, I think, yeah, like one of the hardest things too in sales is obviously where we're facing.

[00:25:43] When you have like pretty, typically 50% of your pay is variable. So if you set these unattainable goals that nobody is reaching mentally. That's like such a mind, fuck. Like, you know, okay. Like what's for you. What's determined success. Most people's success criteria is they want to hit that goal. That.

[00:26:06] Quota like quota is their goal and it's to hit a hundred percent. Like that's what you would deem successful. Not, not like hitting 60%, but then a lot of companies are actually projecting that Hey, reps are going to hit 60, 70%. Um, and that's like, one of the things like my company is really focused in on is.

[00:26:27] One just giving reps transparency into pay, which I never had as a rep. And that's like, where I became passionate about it too, is like, Oh my God, yes. Every rep should be able to understand their pay and the breakdown of where it came from instead of doing the math themself, because anybody can like do these calculations.

[00:26:45] Everybody has this shadow Excel spreadsheet that they're doing this math, but it should be done for you. And. Do the right math, and then you're not spending this time on the side. And then also, like let's just focus on setting better quotas that, you know, help motivate reps instead of you're setting a goal that's, um, you know, too far away.

[00:27:06] And w actually there's, um, you know, the, the behave neuro-psych behind it too is, you know, that actually your blood pressure is affected by goals. So, you know, if you have, if you like, you can, I can pull up a chart and basically if you have a local, you know, if it's like super easy, it's like, ah, like mediocre, you know, then there's a huge spike if it's a moderate, but like attainable, but you have to push yourself for a goal.

[00:27:37] And then it's all the way down to the lowest point of the three points when it's a super high unattainable goal, because you just feel like you're never going to hit there. Right. Hm. That's interesting. And so, uh, has there been studies on this or where's that data? Yeah. Okay. And then, so, so what is, what is, um, the technology that you guys are offering?

[00:28:03] Like how does that help. You know, how does that help reps? How does that help companies? Like what, what are you providing them that they're not getting from other, you know, compensation software out there? Yeah. So one of the biggest things, uh, like from the rep side is really like, we have a Slack app so that you're not.

[00:28:22] Necessarily having to log into another app. So it's kind of being done passively in the background, which is a great benefit there. And then, you know, on the admin side, we have a conversational setup, which makes it really easy for them instead of the issues like Excel. It's the formulas in Excel that become difficult for an admin.

[00:28:43] And then you, Oh, put a parentheses in the wrong spot and then, wow, you paid everybody wrong again, even though you're in a platform. Um, and then like now we're making AI recommendations where we had, uh, one of our companies that took like our beta recommendations, uh, increased sales by 15% in three months, like following our recommendations based on setting proper quota and things like that.

[00:29:07] Yeah. And then it's like the alignment between sales ops and finance, like can happen within our platform instead of, Oh, I have this Excel sheet over here and somebody else has another Excel sheet over here. Like you want sale like ops and finance to work together and be the same. Like the same team work together and you know, you don't want it to take forever to do budgeting.

[00:29:30] You, you know, you want to accurately budget, like what's the worst case and what's the best case of where sales comp could be. And then also putting. The tears in the right spot too. And you know, that's like one of the most important things, whether you're using us or another platform is understanding that tears can actually motivate somebody because if you're below quota, you know, you want something else to reach for.

[00:29:55] If you're never hitting quota, give me something else to reach for. And then once I've achieved that goal, now, I'm like, Oh, okay. Like I achieved 80% and there's a tear here. Okay. I'm not that far from quota. Now I can reach that. And then again, like the, the capping of commissions, if you're above a hundred percent, like, why should I be kept?

[00:30:14] Like what 50% of my pay is? I've never, I've never believed in capped commissions. That's just makes no sense. Like, why would you, why would you hold back people from selling more? Right. Because then you end up with people that are doing things like sandbagging, like, Oh, I'm not going to put it in until next month.

[00:30:29] I'm already, I'm already at my max. Right. But I think, yeah, transparency on commissions is. It is super helpful. You know, I think the one problem that I've seen is some companies just have such complex plans that like the reps don't even know how or where they make money. It's just like, they just keep trying to.

[00:30:48] Do their job and hopefully they build a commission. Right. Um, so, but I th I really think that that's nice that there's, that built-in piece of, you know, recommending a proper quota. Cause a lot of times these numbers just get pulled out of. Okay. Well, here's, here's my. Number that I have to hit and it gets spread across people.

[00:31:08] And sometimes those numbers aren't totally accurate. And sometimes they're not taking into other, you know, uh, seasonal things, uh, in different businesses that have higher seasons. Like there's so many different variables that could, should, you know, determine what the goal is for each individual. Yeah, and I mean, it's tough.

[00:31:27] It's definitely one of the most touchy things. And you have people that, again, 50% of your pay, it's, it's pretty impactful overall. Like if you're not hitting quota, it's impactful, psych psychologically, it's impactful on your, you know, um, you know, your, your paycheck as well. And, you know, the way I've been really able to just like going into hitting quota too, is just.

[00:31:50] By being always being resourceful too, is like, we talked about being at a small company. And for me it's always been, you know, wherever you're at, you just. Put in the work and, you know, reach out to people like, again, there's these, all these communities kind of like popping up that all you have to do is send somebody a LinkedIn message.

[00:32:12] And a lot of people are more than willing to connect with you, especially if you're in sales, you don't all connect with a ton of salespeople. And, you know, again, it may never pan out to something, but I was able to put myself in great situations and really be able to learn, bye bye. Just by going on LinkedIn.

[00:32:31] And that's like kind of where it started. And then, uh, I got connected with Morgan Ingram and like we started chatting and then I got exposed to all these other people because of him interacting with them. And then again, it like can go, go from there. It can go in like so many different directions.

[00:32:49] There's so there's so many of them too, right? I mean there's revenue genius. There's sales stack. There's revenue, collective there's. Provato like, there's so many. And it says what it is. It's a safe place for you to talk sales, right? If you need like some help on your, you know, outbound scripts, email, or DMS, or like what's working our tech stack or like people you should follow, or even like, I've even seen people talking about like, Their comp plant's like, Hey, is this, is this a good comp plan or not?

[00:33:18] And getting feedback from other people that have been in maybe B2B SAS sales for longer and say, no, you're getting screwed. Like you should ask for more. Right. Um, and so these get, I mean, yeah, these there's more and more of them popping up. The ones that exist are getting bigger. It's a safe place for anybody that's been in sales a while, or just getting into sales, to like, get good sound advice for other people in sales.

[00:33:41] That way you're not. You know, talking to your leadership or your manager or your peers at your company. Um, and you know, you can just be fully authentic and transparent about what it is that, you know, you maybe need help with. Yeah. And it's just, yeah, it's just about being resourceful and there's always somebody out there, whether that be, you know, internally within your company, like go talk to the top.

[00:34:04] Go talk to the top SDR, whatever it may be, go talk to leadership and find out like what they're doing. Go like, go talk to your ICP. Like go message 15 people who you're selling to and find out what's important to them in their role outside of like what. Your company has given to you, like be resourceful to that.

[00:34:25] And that's where then you can learn how to send a video message that nobody else is doing. Like what what's video. Like what's a LinkedIn voice message. You know, there's all these new avenues that again, email phone, they're always going to be there. And there you're going to have different Cisco success rates with them, but what other ways can you do it?

[00:34:48] Ken Lee will make maybe LinkedIn doesn't work at all for who you're selling to, or maybe it's actually the best Avenue that you can have the highest success rate. And then like, you know, just being willing to test and just like. Just push yourself, like being curious to ask questions. Like, again, we got connected just because of, again, association of like other people where again, that started, it was like a two year journey of like, I think how then I would kind of like walk down the path of like, how that led to us and meeting, you know?

[00:35:21] And, and that's crazy to think about where all it was was just like an interaction with one person that, you know, led to other crazy opportunities. Yeah. Both of my jobs, even too, like, I mean, both of my jobs were my two first jobs were based on somebody I knew within the company. And then this job was against somebody like the CEO reached out to me because of me putting myself out there on LinkedIn.

[00:35:51] Yeah. Yeah, no, it's, uh, tons of good stuff in here for people that are like, just looking, you know, just getting into sales or looking to improve. Um, Calvin, thanks so much for coming on today. Really appreciate it. Just let folks know where they can connect with you, where they can find out more about the things that you're doing over at concert.

[00:36:11] And, uh, again, thanks for coming on. Yeah, absolutely. Connect with me on LinkedIn, Calvin Patterson, the fourth, uh, I V and then, uh, yeah, I got it. Those two docs we talked about too, is the interviewing doc that I throw together, as well as, uh, the intro to sales doc, which, you know, both of those are just kind of like little snippets from what I've learned, whether it be like books to read, um, you know, tools to use podcasts, to listen to everything and anything in between.

[00:36:40] Awesome. Appreciate it. We'll drop those links in the show notes for everybody. If you're listening to the podcast, please subscribe, drop us a review and share with your friends. And we're also listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level?

[00:37:00] If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales cast.com, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host column Mitchell. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review. And share the podcast with your friends.