In this episode of Sales hustle welcomes Jake Dunlap. We will hear so many fantastic takeaways from Jake as he tells us a bit of a background on how he started in sales to becoming a very successful in the sales game.
Jake Dunlap graduated from Missouri State University. He calls this, the ‘Harvard’ of the Ozarks. He is the CEO of Skaled Consulting. Jake entered into Telemarketing where he learned a lot from this experience and he considered this as the best thing that ever happened to him.
Discovering that there is a science in sales, Jake is now dedicated to helping other individuals, organizations, etc. level up their tactical approach in Sales and discover modern Sales. This is definitely a game changer for you.
You can find Jake Dunlap on LinkedIn. Connect with him and his team and he will set you up with a conversation that will help you open to start into modern sales. There is no better time to be part of sales modernization especially with COVID pandemic and Jake Dunlap is the person that can take you there.
If you’re listening to the Sales Hustle podcast, please subscribe, share, and we’re listening for your feedback. If you are a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a time with Collin and co-founder Chris.
Join Our Sales Motivational SMS list by texting Hustle to 424-378-6966. Please make sure to rate and review the show on Apple.
Episode #13 S1-EP13 Shaping the Future of Modern Sales with Jake Dunlap
Collin Mitchell: [00:00:00] Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the
[00:00:06] Jake Dunlap: [00:00:06] real raw uncut
[00:00:09] Collin Mitchell: [00:00:09] experiences from sales change makers across various industries.
[00:00:14] Jake Dunlap: [00:00:14] The only place
[00:00:15] Collin Mitchell: [00:00:15] where you can get what you're looking for to up your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professional transformed the relationship building process and win their dream.
[00:00:29] Clients. I'm your host, Colin Mitchell. All right. What's happening in sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I've got a fantastic guest for, to you today. I've got Jake Dunlap, who is the CEO of scaled and industry leader in dedicating and shaping the future of modern sales. Yeah, I pulled that from your
[00:00:53] Jake Dunlap: [00:00:53] LinkedIn headline.
[00:00:54] I like, I like it. I like it. I'm looking forward to the conversation. I'm looking forward to getting into it.
[00:01:00] Collin Mitchell: [00:01:00] Well, folks that don't, maybe don't know who you are, who you are and
[00:01:04] Jake Dunlap: [00:01:04] how you got into sales. Yeah. I'm happy to do it. So what's up everybody. I'm really excited for this conversation. Sales and hustler.
[00:01:11] Probably. I don't know where I spend a lot of my time or at least talking about it. So. For me, you know, I'll tell you a little about me, you know, I, from Kansas city go chiefs and Royals too, you know, the chiefs don't, you know, with the chief's role in Royals, aren't getting enough love. So shout out to my Royals too.
[00:01:27] Um, but you know, for me, I got into sales actually in college, you know, I went to this prestigious, I call it the Harvard of the Ozarks Missouri state university. And, um, I got into, I did telemarketing man, and it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. And I did it to make money, but. Um, you know, I came out of college and destroy these kids from, you know, Princeton, et cetera.
[00:01:46] I liked we were taking these sales jobs and, you know, for me sales, it was my first few roles where I realized that the science of sales too. And I was a voracious reader. I read every book you could imagine on psychology and, and marketing and, you know, building rapport and Zig Ziglar. I mean, you name it, man.
[00:02:04] I've read, I've read hundreds and hundreds of books. And I just realized very early on that. Uh, you know, uh, this is something I enjoyed sales, satisfied a lot for me, man. It satisfied my natural curiosity. I got to meet a lot of people have very interesting conversations. I really enjoy talking to people about their business and it just kind of equaled up like, okay, not only is this something I'm good at it's something I think I can build a profession and career so fast forward today.
[00:02:28] You know, I've been the VP of sales at glass door, a bunch of other, very successful startups with big exits, um, started my own firm almost eight years ago now, which is crazy really because the challenges that I saw and loved solving were I love solving the problems I love putting in place structure, et cetera.
[00:02:45] Like I'm that guy. I liked the, I liked the fixing, um, and wanted to build a firm that could support sales and marketing leaders. In doing that because I just saw, so there's a typical consulting, which is like telling me all the problems I have. And I'm like, what am I supposed to do with this? And then there's sales training where I'm like, cool, like now what do I do with it?
[00:03:03] And felt that sales is really being kind of neglected from a support standpoint where marketing had all those agencies, but no one was doing this for sale. So. That's me, man. That's what's what I've been up to like a very quick nutshell.
[00:03:15] Collin Mitchell: [00:03:15] Yeah, let's kill let's peel. Yeah. Let's peel back a few things. So, uh, what, what do you think separated you early on in sales, where you were crushing these other people?
[00:03:23] Jake Dunlap: [00:03:23] Right? Um, I don't care, dude. I have no ego. I think, I think there's two things. There was a couple of big things that I realized. People don't have a problem with you. It's not like a part, this isn't like a personal issue and, and, and that it's a numbers game. And so for me, man, when I was doing telemarketing, I created like alter egos.
[00:03:43] So just to keep it fresh, I was this character called Dennis and finished. He must have retainers. A show. I would call people at cold call. Hey, how are you? You know, because like you had to break up the monotony, like there is all kinds. I want you to stay.
[00:03:57] Collin Mitchell: [00:03:57] Would you stay in character? The
[00:03:58] Jake Dunlap: [00:03:58] whole jealous?
[00:04:01] Yeah, dude. I mean the dominant thing that Dennis ever actually closed a deal, um, There's another one called the
[00:04:07] Collin Mitchell: [00:04:07] reverend's career was short.
[00:04:08] Jake Dunlap: [00:04:08] There was another one called the Reverend it's like, hello, this is Jake Dunlap with grand Vista vacate. No, he's like a, like a Southern Reverend. And, uh, but people rarely hung up on the Reverend, you know, like people, people were hesitant because they, you know, they associated it with like, Oh my God, we're going to church right now.
[00:04:24] So, uh, you know, I think that that's it, man. This is you got to have fun with it and realize that rejection isn't personal. Uh, and then you got to be a student of the game and adapt and adapt and adapt and adapt and adapt. And I was always that kid, right. I'm that know it all kid who was like, well, why don't we do it this way?
[00:04:39] Why don't we do it this way? Why don't we do it this way? And so I think it was those two skills that, that ability to get uncomfortable consistently, and then my belief in constant improvement and that I could learn from everybody, you know, I would go, and I think why I became successful at sales so quick is I just stole everyone else's best practices.
[00:04:57] John Smith's over here. This dude's been doing it for 10 years. I see what he's doing with quota. He says X, Y, Z, and his discovery. I'm literally just going to repeat it verbatim until I make it my own.
[00:05:07] Collin Mitchell: [00:05:07] Parenting parenting can get you, get you get. Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I too started in telemarketing, so my first sales job, I was selling aftermarket, you know, printing supplies over the phone.
[00:05:20] It was something that everybody bought. And as soon as it ran out, they needed
[00:05:23] Jake Dunlap: [00:05:23] more in the margins were huge. Right. Um, and
[00:05:26] Collin Mitchell: [00:05:26] so, and my training was basically, Hey, here's a phone, here's a list of names. Don't use the CRM because it doesn't work.
[00:05:33] Jake Dunlap: [00:05:33] And
[00:05:33] Collin Mitchell: [00:05:33] it was basically two weeks, somebody breathing on the back of my neck, don't say that, say this.
[00:05:38] And I would just start parroting
[00:05:39] Jake Dunlap: [00:05:39] what
[00:05:40] Collin Mitchell: [00:05:40] other people were saying. And I started closing some deals until somebody came over and he's like, Hey, I hear that you're saying that it's working, but you shouldn't because that person over there saying it and he's lying. Okay, well, that's, that's,
[00:05:51] Jake Dunlap: [00:05:51] that's what you gotta, you know, you gotta, you gotta, you know, silence obviously, and there's the black, white and the gray.
[00:05:57] Right. So,
[00:05:58] Collin Mitchell: [00:05:58] yeah, but the biggest thing you said that stuck out is like, have fun. Don't make it so damn personal. Even the most accessible people are going to get way more nos than yeses.
[00:06:07] Jake Dunlap: [00:06:07] Right? Exactly. And I'm just going to go and yeah. You know, and, and, and also don't complain about like the situation you're in with your boss or your pro, like you chose, you made a choice.
[00:06:16] You're choosing to be where you are right now. And I think too many people, um, you know, they, they, they expect their company to give them all their professional development. Um, Oh my God, these, these activity minimums are dumb. Well then leave, dude. You know, like, and, but, but, you know, look, it doesn't mean you don't try to change the status quo, but I think a lot of salespeople are.
[00:06:36] You know, we're living in frustration of their own creation. And I think a lot of salespeople need to pick themselves up and take their own, um, uh, professional development into their own hands. That's probably my number one advice for a lot of sellers now is like, dude, my boss didn't tell me my boss made book recommendations, but he didn't say Jake, you have to read these and put the book to my head, you know?
[00:06:57] And like he didn't say Jake, you had to go listen to this person or do that. And. If you want to get better faster, no one cares more about your career than you do. And so you've got to really check yourself and see, are you, are you really taking, are you taking control of your career or is your career in sales happening to you?
[00:07:13] And I feel like that's something a lot of people need to really spend a few minutes hit pause right now in the podcast. And I want you to think about where you're at right now. And is it happening to you or are you in the driver's seat?
[00:07:24] Collin Mitchell: [00:07:24] Yeah, no, I think that's a great point because you hear a lot about these people, you know, kind of complaining or bitching about like, Oh, we don't have proper leadership.
[00:07:32] We don't have proper professional development. Well then quit complaining and go out there and get some on your own and get better at what you do.
[00:07:40] Jake Dunlap: [00:07:40] It is what it is, man, you know? Like, and, and, and. Hopefully you find a company that does invest. I was very lucky. You know what? I was, I went to a company called CareerBuilder in the mid two thousands and I got, you know, my first leadership, I got leadership training, you know, and they did invest in me, but I also doubled down and invested in myself.
[00:07:56] And I think it's, it's, you know, ideally you want both, and I think you should expect a company to work with you and develop you. But I think you've got to realize sales is a profession and it's a craft that just like woodworking or playing the guitar or whatever. You know, it takes many years to be a master.
[00:08:11] And if you're only practicing between nine to five and you're not honing your craft outside, then the person that does an extra hour or two of, you know, game film every day after two, three, four, five, 10 years, they're they're years ahead of you from a compound standpoint, a skillset. So, you know, I'm just, I'm really passionate about people taking ownership over their own, you know, career development and especially, you know, specifically around sales.
[00:08:34] Collin Mitchell: [00:08:34] Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's a great point. So, you know, whether your organization provides, you know, leadership training and professional development, don't just rely on that. You're, you're fortunate if you, if your company has that number one. And even if you do are getting that. Don't just rely on that.
[00:08:52] There still needs to be more to push yourself further, faster, uh, to really master your craft of sales. And if you don't have anything at all, then you better get be getting out there and getting what you need to further yourself.
[00:09:05] Jake Dunlap: [00:09:05] That's right. Yeah. I mean, people are willing to help, you know, like you be shocked how often, how awesome people are and how many people will help you.
[00:09:13] If you just ask.
[00:09:14] Collin Mitchell: [00:09:14] Oh, yeah. And I mean, there's so many resources out there today that, you know, if you're not taking advantage of them, you're the only one that's losing.
[00:09:23] Jake Dunlap: [00:09:23] Um, and most of them.
[00:09:25] Collin Mitchell: [00:09:25] Yeah. I mean, there's tons of resources that are one super affordable and even further there's tons of resources that are free.
[00:09:32] There's people like you and many others that are putting out tons of content with value, uh, on a consistent basis. There's podcasts like this there's blogs, there's courses. There is so much stuff out there that if you're not taking advantage of it, you have no right to complain.
[00:09:49] Jake Dunlap: [00:09:49] If I was in sales right now, too, if I think of like a lead development role.
[00:09:54] I th I'm pretty sure I could get to quota in three to four hours a week because of LinkedIn and other tools, dude, like there's so much to your point. There's so much free advice, dude. Like Google a phone and like LinkedIn wasn't really like popping whenever I would like first got into sales, you know?
[00:10:09] And so like, like, like right now, like all of our clients were putting onto LinkedIn voicemail, for example, like dude, LinkedIn voicemail is curve. Xing it's the best prospecting too. I've seen since emailed like 2014. Like, there's just so much free advice that like, go listen to what I'm saying. And guys like, you know, uh, Morgan Ingram, there's a whole bunch of people that do we just give the plays away, stop, reinventing the wheel like that.
[00:10:35] You could just crank out. That would make you successful. If you just stop reinventing the wheel.
[00:10:39] Collin Mitchell: [00:10:39] Yeah, you're going to love this. I don't know if you know about this, but, uh, you know, so like LinkedIn voice DMS. Great. The biggest complaint is you can only do it from the mobile, right? Yeah. But there's tools out there now, like ample market where you can do it from web, you can crank out voice DMS from the web with ample market.
[00:10:58] Shout out to Mike over at ample market.
[00:11:00] Jake Dunlap: [00:11:00] I got a total
[00:11:02] Collin Mitchell: [00:11:02] game changer.
[00:11:03] Jake Dunlap: [00:11:03] Nobody's doing it either. That's the best part. And then, and then like 99% of you, aren't going to do it either. Like, yeah, that's a really smart idea. Instead of just going to go hit, send all on these shitty emails. Right. Like, it's like, it's, it's pretty wild to me.
[00:11:15] Just like with this tech that, that so many, so few reps are actually taking advantage of it.
[00:11:21] Collin Mitchell: [00:11:21] Well, I mean, and, and maybe some people will do it and then for two weeks decide it doesn't work and stop doing it.
[00:11:27] Jake Dunlap: [00:11:27] Right? Yeah. It didn't work for me. Like, well, listen to your voicemail, man. You sound bored. You sound like you're not having fun.
[00:11:32] It's not finalized.
[00:11:34] Collin Mitchell: [00:11:34] Yeah, you got to get into the Reverend character.
[00:11:38] Jake Dunlap: [00:11:38] You gotta do something, man. You gotta have, you gotta do something. You know, people gotta, you know, people gotta feel that emotion, you know, they gotta feel that. And I think that's why I feel like, again right now, it's so easy to stand out.
[00:11:49] So many people are caught in zombie mode. Not just because of COVID we've been heading this direction in sales for a long time. That's so many people are just stuck, like just rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat in the, and like, just, just look at these other things we're talking about, you know, we're just now kind of scratching the surface on some, but you know, if you have a buyer that's on LinkedIn, you should be putting out content that's relevant to that buyer.
[00:12:11] You know, it's just like, how, if I gave you a speaking spot, you would talk to a room full of your buyers. Well, what do you think LinkedIn is? LinkedIn is a speaking spot and networking event that happens every single day, 24 seven, and every single piece of content that you put out should be geared toward your buyers.
[00:12:27] I had an exchange with a guy. I know this dude too. And he said, I put out, I can't remember if the post was about, Oh, it was using LinkedIn in the sales process. This, this is the next gangster shit where people like, I have a meeting with you, then I write a post about the pain point that we solve, that we discussed.
[00:12:44] And then I DM it to you as a part of the recap. Right? So like there's other ways people are now crushing closing deals quickly by just using content. And he's like, well, what if my. Content isn't about my buyers and I'm like, well, why are you producing it? Then? You know, if you want to be, go be LinkedIn famous and just be a talking head, then go sell a sales tech or come work for us and sell, you know, work in sales consulting.
[00:13:05] Like if I didn't work in sales, like if I didn't sell to CEOs and sales leaders, then that wasn't our main buyer, dude, I'd be talking about logistics or HR or finance, whatever it is that I sold, I would be putting out content around that. I don't care about being famous. I care about getting deals done.
[00:13:21] You know, too many people out here trying to be LinkedIn famous and not trying, and not really understanding that the real point is, you know, building a relationship with someone that you might be able to do business with potentially. Oh, and,
[00:13:32] Collin Mitchell: [00:13:32] and the other thing that, that pisses me off is like, okay, don't just go in like your prospect, like just say something thoughtful, try to really engage, or, you know, don't say nice posts, thumbs up.
[00:13:44] Like. Say something that actually, you know, has some context in it and, you know, be consistent like me personally, I schedule out my LinkedIn activity, people that I want to stay top of mind with that I'm either trying to land as a customer or a partner or some sort of relationship that has revenue generating value for me.
[00:14:05] I have their activity URL on a list and I'm engaging with them on a
[00:14:08] Jake Dunlap: [00:14:08] consistent basis. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I mean, with LinkedIn sales navigator, again, you can automate a lot of that. Like again, with these tools, like I would, so if I was a rep today and I've gotten a lot, I've gotten lot of shit for this too.
[00:14:20] I would be coming out of pocket at least probably two to $400 a month. And I would work from a beach working like four or five hours a week. I mean, I'm just telling you the tech that exists. Most people just don't even understand what it would exist. Like again, like I had this conversation with you, like, Hey Jake, check it out.
[00:14:37] There's this new thing. I'm like bet. And the other thing, and this is, you asked me this question about what makes me like makes me successful or made me successful. You just told me that I will immediately pivot on a dime and start doing that immediately. That I think that that's the other thing is like, I don't believe in like the status quo and meritocracy or not.
[00:14:56] I believe in meritocracy. I don't believe in that. So as soon as I hear something that's working, or if you show me a data point, I immediately stopped. Even if I've been doing the exact same thing for 15 years, Jake, you shouldn't be putting your deodorant on this way. Instead if you put it on this way, it does this.
[00:15:10] I will immediately start doing it that way. You have no board
[00:15:14] Collin Mitchell: [00:15:14] I'm the same way or I'll at least try it. I'll at least try it for a while.
[00:15:18] Jake Dunlap: [00:15:18] I trust someone else and it's significantly better. I will, I won't try it. I will make that shit. I will make it work. Like if it's like, I'll get, let me tell you the best thing that the similar to this stuff is been gone.
[00:15:29] And this is like four months ago, they put out a report where they looked at the right call to action. Was it next week? Like, Hey, do you have time next week? That's garbage. I've known that for a long time date and time. That's how I was trained. Date and time, date and time, date time. That's the number two best CTA.
[00:15:45] The actual CTA that's working with today's buyers because people evolve is let me know if it's, if this, if this topic is of interest and there's a bunch of mutations, but it's to the extent of, let me send you over a few details. And if it makes sense, we can set up time to connect. So you're getting the yes on the, let me connect with, let me send this to you.
[00:16:03] This. And then boom booking meetings. And they found that booked twice as many meetings. So immediately look, we've been trading customers for the last 60 days prior to this like seven years dating time. Big time we change the playbook overnight. If the data says this is what's working, just go do what's working.
[00:16:20] I mean, this is kind of a theme that we're coming back to you guys. If you want to be really, really good, you can't just rely on your own iterations, your own. You got to, Ooh, that's cool. I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna take that. I'm going to take that. I'm going to take that. And if there, if it's such a big Delta, and if I'm sitting here wasting my breath, telling you how important LinkedIn voicemails are and you don't go and do it.
[00:16:39] Or you try it. You don't try that. Don't try it. Look at me right now to camera. Do not try, go do it. I'm telling you it works. It's crushing it like nothing we've ever seen with our clients. Stop, stop questioning it. Just go do it.
[00:16:54] Collin Mitchell: [00:16:54] Yeah. Yeah. All right. So voice DMS, if you're not doing
[00:16:57] Jake Dunlap: [00:16:57] better fucking do them after that,
[00:16:58] Collin Mitchell: [00:16:58] that's one to two that, that CTA, you're going to book twice
[00:17:03] Jake Dunlap: [00:17:03] as many meetings to hit
[00:17:04] Collin Mitchell: [00:17:04] rewind.
[00:17:05] Listen to that. Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you do
[00:17:08] Jake Dunlap: [00:17:08] that
[00:17:08] Collin Mitchell: [00:17:08] right now? What would you stop? Every CTA
[00:17:11] Jake Dunlap: [00:17:11] he was going in. All of your albums boss told him that my boss calls me not to man.
[00:17:16] Collin Mitchell: [00:17:16] Doesn't say so because the email. You know, templates that we have, doesn't say so, because I tried LinkedIn for two weeks,
[00:17:24] Jake Dunlap: [00:17:24] all the bullshit excuses I didn't did.
[00:17:26] I didn't get that.
[00:17:27] Collin Mitchell: [00:17:27] That's huge. And I saw that post that you put out and, and, and it's big because what it is is you're then only getting meetings with people that have actually shown interest in resonating
[00:17:40] Jake Dunlap: [00:17:40] with what makes sense to move forward with you, with you, your building, while you.
[00:17:46] Collin Mitchell: [00:17:46] They're more
[00:17:46] Jake Dunlap: [00:17:46] quality meetings.
[00:17:48] Collin Mitchell: [00:17:48] I'd actually give a shit about what you
[00:17:49] Jake Dunlap: [00:17:49] can. And you got to think about this. All of you are listening. You're building a career in sales, this reputation at your company that you're building now is something you can, you, you will not. Can, you will transport with you forever. Therefore, why wouldn't you be building a network of people that you can activate over and over and over again throughout your career?
[00:18:12] We used to have this thing back in the day. I was like at the very end of this, I don't think I have a Rolodex. I don't think I ever had a role. I had a box of cards. Right. But it's just a, it's just an old school Rolodex man. It's like, you get a bunch of cards of people, but LinkedIn is just a better way to connect and stay engaged.
[00:18:29] Instead of having to send out an email newsletter. My posts now nurtures over 45,000 people every single day. Right. And so, and that didn't happen on accident. Like this is on purpose, right. I saw the tea leaves and. Know, I'll give everyone a little bit about my journey with LinkedIn, where, you know, I look, I work at a consulting firm.
[00:18:46] I'm not a talking head. I'm not out here, like pontificating where it's me. And like two dudes, I've got 30 people I'm fucking paying every month. Okay. Like this isn't two dudes in a dream here. Like I'm running a company and yet still, I think it's so important that I post on LinkedIn one to two times a day.
[00:19:00] And let me tell you why, because what I realized is in early 2018, We started to look at all the data. I said, let's look at our lead channels. We're putting out a blog post every week, eBooks every 60 to 90 days and good concept, like really good, longer form content. And then you put it on social and you're like, why isn't more people engaging?
[00:19:17] Whereas the leads, where are my hot leads. And I just was very honest with myself. I said, look, this is just not how buyers want to consume content anymore. People want boom. Now give me a little of this little, this for one year, between 2018 and summer of 2019, we put out zero blog posts. And zero long form pieces of content.
[00:19:35] We doubled down on LinkedIn that year. We probably closed a few hundred thousand. Now we're closing million dollars a year in millions, plural of dollars in business from people literally we're closing deals. Six-figure deals where the first conversations with a CEO or CRO, and it starts with, I don't even know what you guys do.
[00:19:55] I have an idea of what it is,
[00:19:57] Collin Mitchell: [00:19:57] but I saw you on LinkedIn. We
[00:19:59] Jake Dunlap: [00:19:59] have a problem with this, and I think it's in your wheelhouse. And, and, and I've been, it takes time and P I don't know what the ROI of the post is. If I would have stopped after two weeks, because I didn't get a lead, I wouldn't be here right now.
[00:20:11] And I think too many people it's like, just, just think about the logic of what I said, you're going to be in sales for awhile. Does it make sense that you would want more senior people in your little web or in your network? Yes. Therefore producing content to keep them nurtured is, is an important thing that you should do.
[00:20:29] Right. Whether it brings a lead today, tomorrow, I am telling you the ROI is very, very real.
[00:20:34] Collin Mitchell: [00:20:34] Oh yeah. And, and I even hear, you know, people that unfortunately got laid off because of COVID that were active on LinkedIn, they had, did not have a hard time finding a new role very quickly.
[00:20:46] Jake Dunlap: [00:20:46] Yeah. But, but what I'll say real recognizes real.
[00:20:50] Okay. If you're one of these people out here, who's like, Oh, uh, blahblahblahblah did it. But you know, and, but you aren't, you don't have the goods. Guess what? You'll get the job from LinkedIn, then your ass gets fired. And I think that that's, that's the catch 22 right now with some people, is that, look, I didn't start posting, like I was 38, seven.
[00:21:08] I mean, look, I've been on LinkedIn for a while. I'm sure I've been posting for like 10 years, but not really consistently. And I'm just sharing stuff that I know. I it K N O w not, I don't, I don't try to pontificate too much, but so I think a lot of people don't be scared to post because of that. I don't want to scare you, but what I do want to do is just share your truth.
[00:21:29] Your truth is what will resonate, right? Don't pander. If I don't pander for likes, I look, I already know what the recipe is. If I want to get 10,000, if I want to get thousands of likes, I already know the recipe. I start a post that says. Here's where I did, blah, blah, blah. Here's how much money I made, blah, blah, blah.
[00:21:46] Here's my career blocks. There's a very simple recipe. You guys see people on LinkedIn doing it, but I'm not putting out content for those people. I'm putting out content for all of you, but I'm putting out content for. People to resonate with. And, and it's my truth. And I feel good about it. You know, I'm not doing it to pander and, and cause if you do stuff to pander, you know, again, eventually you get exposed, you might get that job, but then you'll get exposed once you get the
[00:22:10] Collin Mitchell: [00:22:10] yeah.
[00:22:10] Yeah. So it sounds like you're saying like likes don't matter
[00:22:16] Jake Dunlap: [00:22:16] that
[00:22:16] Collin Mitchell: [00:22:16] much doesn't matter how many likes you get it's it's, it's creating content that's relevant to who your customer is and. You know, you're not every piece of content is going to do well. Not every piece of content is going to get in front of the right people, but being consistent with it is what matters and being true,
[00:22:33] Jake Dunlap: [00:22:33] forensic consistency, like I know videos underperform on LinkedIn.
[00:22:37] It doesn't make sense. LinkedIn is not a video first platform. Right. But do I still pump out three to five videos a week? Yep. Why? It creates a different relationship? They're not most people, you know, so many people, Jake. Yeah. I see your videos all the time on LinkedIn. Not, I see your text only posts, right?
[00:22:52] Like video creates a different relationship. And so, you know, even though it's not going to get the views and the likes, I, you know, again, like my intuition told me, like, this is probably still important to build audience, you know? And I, and I, and I think if LinkedIn ever does change the algorithm, man, there's a lot of these thought leaders that are in a lot of trouble because these guys are keyboard warriors and they can talk about being motivational.
[00:23:14] But in reality, once you kind of see them, you're like, Whoa, That is not like stories. When stories came out, I was, it was really funny to watch people's reaction to stories. I mean, obviously, you know, I just immediately started doing it. I was like the kid. I was like, I was on vacation when it came out. I'm like, Oh my God, like that stories.
[00:23:30] Uh, and we knew it was on that. We had talked to LinkedIn, we knew it was in the pipeline for a while, but, um, it's just another way to create connections. I mean, one of the plays that I love right now is on, on your mobile LinkedIn stories again, do a quick video. After that meeting you had with somebody.
[00:23:44] Do a quick video tag them in the LinkedIn story. Not many people are doing that 0.0, dude. You don't think your buyers can be like, Oh, that's cool. He put me in a LinkedIn story.
[00:23:53] Collin Mitchell: [00:23:53] You know, you know what? I'm taking a clip from this and putting it in a story and tagging you.
[00:23:57] Jake Dunlap: [00:23:57] I hope to God, I hope that you do,
[00:24:01] Collin Mitchell: [00:24:01] but, but, uh, the only thing,
[00:24:03] Jake Dunlap: [00:24:03] every rep listening to this, here's the thing, every rep listening to this should do it too.
[00:24:08] Right? If you sell to small and medium businesses, right. We are buyers of a lot of different things. Every rep should do this. I'm giving you the recipe, man. You know, like again, like just don't, there's just so many new cool things that are out there, you know, trying to kind of like bring all this together that, you know, it goes back to again, what's always made me successful.
[00:24:26] So I'll share another story about like, just always breaking stuff. I've shared this one a few times, but so my very first job I worked for the Tampa Bay rays, um, trying to hold it down in the world series. I'm rooting for him. Um, and I moved up really quickly there from group sales to account executive senior account executive.
[00:24:43] And when I was in this group, and these were people that had five, 10, 15 years of experience in, and I'm in this, this group, uh, they had an inbound phone loop and how the phone loop works is it would skip you if you were on the phone. So it would go to the next person, the next person. So after my first year there, I did a scatterplot, right.
[00:24:58] So I used that Missouri state education. Uh, I used Excel and I created a manual scatterplot and I entered in every single inbound sale and the time of day that it came in and I found these gaps at like 11:00 AM, 2:00 PM and 4:00 PM. And so I just sat there and did nothing for the first hour. I just sent emails and stuff had just did this Tampa Bay races.
[00:25:22] Jake Tampa raises Jake while all my coworkers are making cold calls. After about two days, they realize what's happening. And I, and they go, Jake, dude, what's going on? I go guys, check this out. I showed them the Excel sheet. You guys, this is why I'm doing it. Nobody calls in during these times. And so then during those times I pick up my cold calls because I knew nobody is going to call in.
[00:25:44] I showed them the Excel sheet. I said, guys, why are any of you making calls? I'm showing you this was works. And not a single person started doing what I was doing and then they fixed it like a month later. But like the point is like, why are you always looking for the hard way? Like what's made me successful is I look for clever ways to do things.
[00:26:05] And then I improved them. And, and that, that story is like the epitome of me. Where I'm like, Oh, snap. I was already the top seller and I'm like, all right, what's, what's the next like thing. Uh, let's see how I can hack this inbound phone tree. Like this thing looks like this thing looks dumb and inefficient, like, and sure enough.
[00:26:21] And then, and then it's just, it's a story about kind of human nature where, why, why wouldn't you do it? Like, I, I'm not trying to exploit you or anything, but like you're, you're making a conscious choice to do mindless activity or a conscious choice to not optimize your performance. That's on you. You know, and, and, and you've got to realize that, and you know, we've talked about this, that you've got to try new things, and if your boss needs to make a hundred calls to do it, start at 7:00 AM, finish the dials by nine or 10, and then do whatever you need to do.
[00:26:50] Collin Mitchell: [00:26:50] Yeah. Yeah. You gotta be curious and open-minded to try new things to go further, or are you gonna, you're gonna hit a ceiling and
[00:26:58] Jake Dunlap: [00:26:58] two man dad.
[00:27:00] Collin Mitchell: [00:27:00] Yeah. Yeah. All right. So tell me, here's I have a question how much, I don't know for you specifically, and then for people that you work with and the answer might be different, right?
[00:27:10] How much time on LinkedIn is creating content versus like. Sending DMS or engaging with other people's content.
[00:27:17] Jake Dunlap: [00:27:17] I think here's the recipe that I would give for all of you out there. And this, I think this would be a good clip. If you're going to, if you're going to do it, I'm going to try to give you a very basic playbook.
[00:27:26] Okay. I think if you produce about two pieces of content a week, that's totally fine. Again, content the best ways to take content, your marketing, department's already putting out content. Just go borrow guys. Just go borrow a, some snippets from what they're putting out and make it your own. Or even better do what I told you before you talk to a client, someone gives you feedback, use a little snippet.
[00:27:51] So there's how you're going to produce content. You're not going to have to have, I want you to have here's my, here's my goal for it. I want all of you to have zero original thoughts, zero. I want you to just borrow industry trends that your marketing department and others are already talking about and produce content.
[00:28:04] The other thing is I want you to take an active role in adding to your network, most of your networks or your coworkers and previous coworkers and your boys from college or whatever. Yup. That means everyday using LinkedIn sales navigator, I can connect with 82 people in 12 minutes. 82 people in 12 minutes.
[00:28:21] So therefore now, and I'm going to do that every day. So I'm going to max that out.
[00:28:25] Collin Mitchell: [00:28:25] Okay. And I know you've said it before. You just, you just send them,
[00:28:27] Jake Dunlap: [00:28:27] you don't even send them messages, value person take the time to customize the I'm telling you guys, we we've looked at data. Does it have an impact on a accept rate when you have a hyper customized message?
[00:28:40] Yes, it does. It's a positive impact, but in that same 12 minutes, I could send five messages. I could send 82. Fast forward is three to six months. My network is going to be of the right people. I'm picking. These connections is going to be so much larger than your network. There is no chance in hell that my way is not better right now.
[00:28:59] If you want to take time here or there to do some personalization, that's fine. If you just start there, I'm T I think you can be successful. I think you'll start to generate leads if that's there. And then you add in the engagement things we talked about. So again, in sales, never, I can build a list and every morning I would just pop in and it says lead shares.
[00:29:15] It literally there's a filter on the homepage of sales. Now that says lead shares. It tells you who just share it, go in comments on a post, like a post. If you found yourself, you've interacted once or twice. And then that's when you drop the voicemail. Right. Are you, are you sending email or make a cold call?
[00:29:29] I love cold calls. Like I love it. I love the LinkedIn to cold call combo. Hey, you know what? Call it. Hey, it popped up to my feet a couple of times. I'm not, I commented on a post last week. It seems like your blood and then I'd launch into it. I mean, like, just imagine how much more rapport building that is.
[00:29:45] So, yeah, those are just
[00:29:46] Collin Mitchell: [00:29:46] some basic nobody's doing that.
[00:29:48] Jake Dunlap: [00:29:48] Nobody is doing that guys. What I just told you think about how easy it is. I just gave you exactly the plate, LinkedIn sales navigator. I do my connections there. I look at lead shares in the morning. So I'm talking about, you're spending 20 minutes a day on LinkedIn, 20 to 30 minutes, and then maybe another let's call it 60 minutes, putting out two pieces of content.
[00:30:07] So I'm talking about, you know, spending five hours a week, four to five hours a week on LinkedIn. That's
[00:30:13] Collin Mitchell: [00:30:13] you, if you're being honest, you're wasting probably more time per day. Doing useless. Bullshit. Anyway. Yeah. So why not do something that's going to put money in your pocket?
[00:30:21] Jake Dunlap: [00:30:21] It's yeah, man, I don't know.
[00:30:23] People have to people we like to, I don't know. We'd like to work hard sometimes
[00:30:29] Collin Mitchell: [00:30:29] or just feel mindless or just do mindless activities to hit your dial. And
[00:30:34] Jake Dunlap: [00:30:34] I've been in those situations. Yeah, man, I've been in those situations and had to manage people in those situations. You know, where I remember there was a rep, um, Shout out to Greg.
[00:30:43] I won't call out his last day, but I'll remember this dude. I'll always remember it. I actually caught up with him for the first time. He's actually at a big company now he's doing well. Um, but I remember this dude. I had a new hire start and I walked by this new heart. That's I'm like, what the, what is this?
[00:30:59] It was a list of fake numbers that, that would get you to a fax machine and other stuff where you can just sit and get taught time. And I'm like I found out who gave it to him and I didn't fire him. Right. I actually, man, I had some of my biggest success stories or people I should have fired over shit like that.
[00:31:15] Um, but, but I gave him a second chance and be like, look, man, it's the same activities. Why not push it up the button toward a dial? You know, like he's got to hit the number either way. So that stuff happens and it, and that's why with a lot of our clients, and this is the kind of the more controversial stuff that we're trying to do at scale is.
[00:31:29] We're actually trying to move a lot of our clients to have true activity minimums, like 20 calls a day and 20 emails, like something very manageable, whatever that is for the business. And then instead focus on meaningful conversations or your first outcome. Cause that's really what we're trying to produce here.
[00:31:42] Right? Is outcomes. Yeah. Once you produce a qualified opportunity, not, and because this activity, some of the stuff I'm talking about on LinkedIn is more difficult to track. I want you to do that and not create perverse incentives that incentivize you to do things that, you know, aren't the best thing. So I, you know, a lot of our clients were like, look, let's lower.
[00:32:01] What those minimums are. Let's instead start to measure on a daily basis, Hey, you need to have five meaningful conversations. And that's, you know, someone looking to book a meeting, like you have a dialogue with them on any platform, um, or they're getting you to the right person and you're having a dialogue to get to the right person.
[00:32:17] Right? So instead of tracking a hundred activities, how about instead we say, Hey, look, every day you've got to have 20 calls or 20 activities, whatever. And five meaningful conversations. Yeah. And let people get there the way that, you know, it's like baseball to me is the perfect analogy because we managed to make everyone a number three hitter.
[00:32:36] But guess what? Some people are ones, some are two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine hitters. And right now in sales, we managed to, we want everyone to do this and that's just not who people are. They can't, they can't do it. So. Yeah,
[00:32:50] Collin Mitchell: [00:32:50] there's that. And somebody told me this, I haven't seen it, but, um, I've, I've heard that lowering those minimums or those quotas to more attainable numbers like that.
[00:32:58] People actually perform a lot better because they're less stressed out. It looks like having like some sort of minimum that's extremely high and stresses them out to hit it on a consistent basis, raises their blood pressure. And they're never going to perform at their best level.
[00:33:10] Jake Dunlap: [00:33:10] Yeah. And in trust me, it's a mix.
[00:33:13] Right. It, it, isn't mixed to find out what's right for you and your business. Um, again, I, I, I'm not advocating that you, you have zero minimums. I think that that carrot of like, look, we know call's important. I need you to, I need you to make 20 calls a day, as long as it's reasonable. I'm okay with some of that.
[00:33:28] But, but, but the number I'm focused on and that the KPIs that we talk about in our one-to-one are the outcomes and what I measure you to in your Salesforce dashboard, et cetera, our outcomes. That is where I want to see us move. I want to see us as, as, and, and start to focus on allowing people to be creative, allowing people to take best practices and make them their own.
[00:33:50] And Hey, look, I need a lighter bat. I got for me, I swing faster, so I need a lighter bat and I'm going to hit a lot. Like I'm a singer. I know for me. I'm not a home run. I've closed, I've closed multiple seven figure deals. But for the most part, I'm a singles and doubles player. I'm the guy who gets you in and then expands that account faster than anybody that's made.
[00:34:09] And other people sell differently. And that's cool. Like whatever, you know, my, my, and that's how I look at building a sales team and sales leadership team. It's like, it's a baseball team. Like. They're not all, you know, a rods or Mike Trout's right. There's people all over the place, you know?
[00:34:24] Collin Mitchell: [00:34:24] Yeah. Yeah. And as long as you're not like Gregg dialing fax machines, you'll be
[00:34:28] Jake Dunlap: [00:34:28] okay.
[00:34:30] Collin Mitchell: [00:34:30] I actually had somebody, uh, I can't remember his name, but the hack was calling the, when you used to call for movies,
[00:34:37] Jake Dunlap: [00:34:37] we used to call in to get the movie and
[00:34:40] Collin Mitchell: [00:34:40] they would call it is like, man. They call it, his call time was, was fantastic. Um, but you know, when you now there's recordings and that's, that's harder to do that
[00:34:51] Jake Dunlap: [00:34:51] now and is our whatever call system had a fraud detection in it.
[00:34:56] And it caught this fact that this person had called this fax machine X number of times, this one number had consistently 20 to 30 minutes of talk time. Um, yeah,
[00:35:05] Collin Mitchell: [00:35:05] yeah, yeah. Hey Jake, it was fantastic having you on here. Uh, really appreciate it before I let you go. Obviously people can find you on LinkedIn, but what else do you want to share with them?
[00:35:18] Or what takeaway do you want to leave them with
[00:35:21] Jake Dunlap: [00:35:21] is we are really, and, you know, Uh, our team, you know, we, our team is a mix of senior strategy, consultants, sales, operations, sales, enablement people. And so look, if you are you're you or your organization is really trying to say, Hey, you know, we need tactical help.
[00:35:35] We need people doing things or strategy as you start to look forward. Um, definitely hit us up, you know, and, and I think hopefully what you learned today is, you know, we're at least going to teach you something and you're going to learn what the most modern companies are doing. So reach out to me on LinkedIn, firstname.lastname@example.org.
[00:35:52] Um, and you know, I'll hook you up with the team. We're happy to have a conversation. Now is the time to start to modernize your org. There's no, there's never been a better time kind of coming out of COVID. Um, and you know, we're really excited for the year ahead then.
[00:36:05] Collin Mitchell: [00:36:05] Awesome. Thank you. If you're listening to the podcast, please subscribe, share with your friends.
[00:36:09] We're listening for your feedback. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle. Are you a sales professional looking to take your sales career to the next level? If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales cast.com.
[00:36:26] Jake Dunlap: [00:36:26] Check us out.
[00:36:27] Collin Mitchell: [00:36:27] And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host, Colin.
[00:36:35] And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review and share the podcast with your friends.