Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
July 23, 2021

Episode #123 Cold Calling is not a Numbers Game with David Walter

In this episode of the Sales Hustle Podcast, Collin Mitchell welcomes David Walter as he shares how a book and, at the same time setting up a goal, made him consistently book fifteen appointments a day for six months straight.

David Walter is the Marketing Director for MSP SEO Factory LLC. He is also the best-selling author of The Million Dollar Rebuttal: Cold Calling is NOT a Numbers Game, which showcases a counter-intuitive system for cold calling.

David’s claim to fame came from setting a record of fifteen appointments a day, every day for six months cold calling for a PEO company.  

You can learn more and connect with David Walter on the links below:

You can also get a copy of David’s book The Million Dollar Rebuttal: Cold Calling is Not a Numbers Game on Amazon. 

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Episode 123 - David Walter

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I am super pumped today. I've got David Walter, David Walters, an author speaker sales trainer, and he's claim to fame came from cold calling hot streak during which he was. 15 appointments per day for six months straight. So obviously we are going to cover that.

[00:00:54] We're going to talk about cold. Calling is not a numbers game. Prospects. Don't need to have a prospects. Don't need to know that they have a need and how to book 15 appointments per day. David welcome. I bet I'm excited to be here on explosive podcast. Yeah, this is. This is a hot topic, man. I mean 15 appointments per day.

[00:01:17] Uh, I, I have a good feeling that that's gonna, that's gonna attract a lot of people to tune in to this one, uh, because I'm sure everybody right now at this point is thinking like 15 appointments in day a day. Seems impossible. How the hell did you do that? Um, but before we get into that, which we are just give us the short, you know, cliff notes version of David, Walter's a sales story.

[00:01:41] Well, I mean, my, my story is I kinda, I don't go back to, you know, God, God goo no, no, we don't have time for that anyway. I mean, unless that's, when you were booking appointments, then we can go there, the college. And I worked for my dad and helped them make a million dollars in an air conditioning. Which I was like, oh, okay, cool, cool.

[00:02:06] Um, was that door to door? Uh, no, no. I ran an ad. Um, he was about to go bankrupt and he had like $10,000 left on his credit card. I was like that let's copy this ad that I saw that was a hat price and run a full page in the Dallas morning news. And we did that and we literally got a million calls. And I took all the calls and I set appointments and I had a sales presentation.

[00:02:30] I put together, went out and close more sales. We got awards from the distributor, all that stuff. But he, but after that we hit the nineties recession and he went bankrupt. And so that's kind of the nexus of what sets us up to my call because I had to go find a job. I had a BMW that I. Gotten when I was riding high and making all that money and he lost the family home, the office, everything it was like.

[00:02:53] And so I had a good job and I found a job cold calling, uh, at a company called CSI. And it's documented that. And I thought I had done some telemarketing in college for credit cards and Vietnam America back in the day was like the number one issue of the gold MasterCard. And they had like four call centers around the country, one in Edison.

[00:03:12] And I worked there in college making like $30,000 a year, just like taking credit apps. But anyway, I was make a long story short. We get into the meat of this stuff calling and for the audience. Uh, I took this job thinking that I was going to make a lot of money cause the. When they present the commission structures, like, oh, you do this, this, this you're going to make all this money.

[00:03:36] Yup. But hook, line and sinker on it and then got there. And then nothing was happening. Everybody was sent like two a day, you know, like they had a bunch of older people sitting there calling very slowly and then they'd set two appointments that have a bell thing. They me does that too. And I was like, I will not even come close to penetrate.

[00:03:56] My commission structure if I just said too. So I had to set more appointments and it was this long struggle. Um, I mean, I'll just short shortcut and I, I read, um, see you at the top by Zig Ziglar. And hopefully the audience has heard of that book, you know, he's passed away. He was like, Or to a writer. And it said in there to look in the mirror and claim your goal.

[00:04:16] So I did that for six months and I picked this goal. What you, you alluded to the 15 appointments a day, right? I up that goal, because that was the number that would get me all the commissions and it would have locked all the money it exceeded actually. And so I just meditate. I'm going to set 15 appointments and I had no earthly idea how to do that.

[00:04:36] Like I had never done that before. Uh, maybe we could talk about that. Why, why you don't need to know how to do something, you have to set the goal. And I did that and my mind, my subconscious mind figured out how to do it. And in the process, I didn't realize this till later, but I had revolutionized the very idea of cold call and I did six months later, I set 15 appointments that day, and then I just kept doing it.

[00:05:00] I got on a hot streak and said 1800 appointments. So that's kind of the story of what got me into that. Wow. Wow. What a ride. So from, from, from flying high, uh, after the, uh, the ad there and then losing it all, taking a job with, you know, that, that promise the world and, and realizing that it wasn't possible, unless you set a insane amount of appointments that probably no person ever dreamed was possible.

[00:05:32] Uh, and then. You know how the mindset, I mean, the mindset is so powerful in, in actually accomplishing that in and the way you described it as like, you know, really just, you know, reading the Zig Ziglar book and then setting your mind, uh, set that, that you, that you are going to achieve that and then actually executing and making it happen, you know, not just one day, not just a streak, but consistently for a good period of time.

[00:06:04] That's not easy. What somebody asked me one time, they said, why did you stop setting 15 appointments a day? Which was actually the best question I've ever been asked. I stopped looking at mirror saying I was going to set 15 appointments a day. I got overconfident. And that's one that's one takeaway is that why?

[00:06:23] And I hear that all the time. And people said I had a vision board and I didn't, I just came true. And I'd say, so do you have a vision board today? No. I mean, we, we get into it, we do something amazing. We forget all about all the things that helped us get there. Wow. So do you still, do you still use a vision board today?

[00:06:45] Yep. I've gone back to it. That's how I became a number one bestseller, all the goals that I've hit. I got an entrepreneur on an entrepreneur contributor and I just focused in on. That go everywhere. I could think, you know, on my board here at the office at home on the mirror, I woke up thinking about it and that's that's you just have to absorb yourself in that goal and think about all the time, whatever it is, and you can reach it.

[00:07:10] All right. So, so walk me through, walk me through, going from, you know, just getting started in this role, you know, realizing what it takes. What it was going to take to hit the goals, to, uh, you know, get the commission checks that you were hoping for, you know, having that vision board setting, you know, setting that intention, putting that, that energy out there.

[00:07:30] And then what changed when you got on the phone? Like, what were you doing differently? You know, w when things started really, um, you know, to happen, Previously than previously. Well, you know, they say anything's possible, right? Column. Like people say that and, but you can't like fly with your hands and wave them real fast.

[00:07:51] Um, but you can't fly. Right. So anything's possible within reason. And there has to be like a path or you have to see a path and think about from the end. Right. And the mine, how would I look like if I actually got there and like revoked your that. And so. The big, the big shift was basically, where would I get all these extra points, right?

[00:08:16] Yeah. I had two choices. Number one, was I going to find a way to find more people that have a need? And I don't think so, because I don't think that that's from the marketing association only about 3%. And I think it's even less sometimes of any market has a, a known need for a service. Like top of mind need for service.

[00:08:38] And so I didn't think that I would just stumble across more people, which is what most people do. If they're going to get more, like, how can I find more people that have a need because that's the easy sells, but I do get people who are not interested. I'm probably not going to get them. Right. That's a hard, no, but Ben, I have about an 80% of the people I've talked to that don't tell me no, they just say they're happy with what they have.

[00:09:05] So most people take, most people take that as not interested Mo most sellers. So, so, so let's break that down just, just for a second is, you know, there's only a small percentage, you said 3% and you know, it's, it's somewhere in that ballpark, depending on what you do that are actually in market. Right. And those are actually the harder sales because you know, they're doing their research.

[00:09:26] They're talking to multiple vendors. Everybody's trying to get that business. Right. It's super competitive. Um, so there's, and so everybody's trying to find as many of those as possible and, and win those deals. Right. Um, and, and with those, like, it is a numbers game, right. You just gotta make a lot of calls and find as many people that are in market as possible.

[00:09:47] Right. And there's people that are clear. Not interested with, uh, like a valid reason. Like, I don't need this, I already have this and I'm in a contract, whatever the case is, like, there's, there's just nothing you can do to earn their business. And so then the next bucket that you mentioned there is the people that say, Hey, I'm happy.

[00:10:07] You know, I'm not interested in. But they don't necessarily have a good reason. And so tell me, you know, what did you do with those bucket of people to, to get them to actually book appointments? Well, th that was the secret was I was like, how can I, how can I get these people to switch? And actually the people that I coach now, they call it a mental shift.

[00:10:30] And the idea that there's two things that are possible at the same time, that on one hand you can be happy with your current role. But on the other hand, there could be something better out there. And that was, that was the key right there is that if you could talk to people and get them to agree that there could be something better out there, like, okay, you're hot, you're happy with the number of people that you have listened to your podcast right now.

[00:10:52] Them right? Yeah. I'm happy. But yeah, you could get more people. Also. There could be a way to get to triple the number of listings. Yeah, I'm interested now. I just, I just went from happy, not interested to curious and interested. Exactly. That's all. It was so easy. That's all you have to do. Not everybody's going to agree, but what I called that is getting permission to pitch them.

[00:11:16] In other words, you're just, you just say you have to agree with them. And you have to understand them. And I got that from the seven habits of highly effective people. Right? I'm listening to you. I get you calling. I know you've worked very hard with certain vendors that have helped you get where you are now on your podcast, and that's wonderful and you probably don't want to change from those vendors.

[00:11:34] I get it, but isn't it possible, you know, and sometimes I have to really make it. I'm like if, if a better way fell out the sky in your laptop, That would be when you could get more listeners, faster, better listeners, that would be engaging with you, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, what you would at least look at it, you know?

[00:11:55] And that was that really that's it. I mean, that, that is the secret to switching those people around. I mean, after that you need this entire system to try and book the appointment, but that was the, and I realized that those people were malleable, right. There were malleable. They, and that's the one thing is that a lot of people think they're simply calling to find the no, or yes.

[00:12:16] Right? Yeah. But that's not the reality of the world. You know, I could be a note to you, but I could be a yes to somebody else all in the way that our approach, right? Yeah. The way you approach them and really the big secret and the whole process is very simple. If, when I approach you calling to talk, if I couch all my friends, And my questions and things that I know that you're most likely agree with.

[00:12:47] Then I can have a long conversation with you. Yeah, that's the key, right? There is not saying stupid things that get no answers, but really having forethought and thinking out all of your phrases and questions that you'd ask and knowing that most people would probably say like first. Um, do you keep your options open if you saw a better way, would you for the future and by adding those little things on and adding the future at the end?

[00:13:13] Well, for the future? Well, yeah, people would sign up. There's less pressure. They don't feel the need to be as defensive. Like, oh, you're not your ass. You're not definitively asking me to change something right now. You're just asking me, you know, in my open to the possibility, you know, it's a lot easier to say yes to that.

[00:13:31] And, and so what what's, what's interesting. You know, you got to really know the people and what matters to them, right. To be able to use the proper phrases, um, like you mentioned to get them to be curious or to peak their interest, to continue the conversation, uh, where, and also one thing that you said too, which is a huge mindset piece in sales hustlers.

[00:13:53] So, so this thing that David mentioned is, is really important, you know, is that, um, you know, when you're talking to these people, you know, the goal is to have a conscience. Right to further that conversation. So many people get caught up, like the goal is to book the meeting. And when you, when you go into it with the goal of like the goal, yeah.

[00:14:10] You need to book the meeting, but when you go into it, as the goal to book the meeting, people tend to like force things and they get into those lines of questions that are very definitive. And they're not going to have dynamic conversations with that large percentage of people that, you know, maybe aren't interested, but without a good reason, And that's doing it.

[00:14:29] Having a conversation is very hard to do. It's like when I coach people, it's the number one mistake that they do, they get an a on just like they're on a talk, they're on a soap box and they're just going and going and going and going. I did that. I had one call where I, I was on a roll man. I got him, I got him on the phone.

[00:14:47] He's listening. He said, yes, yes. I went through the whole, the whole thing. And I was like, all right, so what time can we come out there next week? And he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, David, you haven't asked me any questions. How could you possibly recommend something to me? And I tried to rebut it, but I couldn't rebut them.

[00:15:05] It was lost, but it was a wonderful call because I, that was the most powerful. If you don't ask any questions, how can you know that you can offer something better? And really what you're saying is you didn't listen. Mm, and talk, it's an important piece, right there. Two things. Right? So number one, sometimes you got to have those experiences to learn for them to like improve and get better the next time.

[00:15:33] Right. I bet you, after that call, you didn't talk as much. You listen, more, you asked more questions. Yeah. Yeah. And for sellers, like, and for sellers. It's equally as important for you as it is for them. Like you want to waste your time with somebody who's not even really listening to you and just says, yes.

[00:15:52] And then, you know, you're going to waste your time booking that appointment. It's going to be a deal that never closes. Like you, you gotta, you know, ask the right questions as much as for them as for you. Is it worth my time to book the meeting? Is it worth moving forward for me there? Some other people that I'm better suited to S you know, spend my time.

[00:16:15] Yeah, you don't want to waste your time. And that's a lot of people think that setting meetings with people that are start out happy and then you kind of draw their mind out and like get them thinking. And then they decide that they'll meet with somebody that, that is a waste of time. And it's, it's not a waste of time.

[00:16:32] As long as you have something better. That's that's like the other secret is if, if I'm trying to set all these appointments, And I don't like preemptive appointments right before these people actually have a need it's preemptive because they do have a need. They just don't know it. Right. They have a problem and they don't see it as a problem.

[00:16:51] That's why they don't think they have a need, but unless you actually have a better way than everybody else. So if I'm up, if I may, I'm a plumber and I do things the way everybody else does or an it company. I do wait things, everybody else. I get out there and I get these pre-approved preemptive appointments.

[00:17:08] It will be a waste of time. You have to think. And that's why when I do my coaching is always, the first thing we do is we find out what their unique selling proposition is. And most people let's see, we talked about Jeffrey Gitomer, he's big on say that nobody has a USP. They think they do, but they don't.

[00:17:28] And, and, and so why is that? Because it's hard to change and that's, I try to get people to understand this Colin and for people listening, think about this for a minute. Don't we all hate to change. Like, yeah. Some people, some people are more, some people are more open to it than others. Um, you know, but for the, for the most part, people don't like to change unless they have significant.

[00:17:59] Good reason. Exactly. And so what I try to get people to realize the business owner and the prospect are of the same mind you go out to sell. They don't want to change. A lot of them would like to find a better way to do it and then get their current vendor to just adopt that change. Right. You don't talk.

[00:18:17] Right. Right. They, they, they want to learn something new, but they don't want to actually change the way they do it. And that the problem is I always say. Somebody has got to set the example, right? It might as well be the business owner. They take the first step by changing and say, look, we've changed and I've changed to something better.

[00:18:37] And now I can ask you to change because I changed. But that's the problem is nobody. And that's what we talk about is, and sometimes it can be little changes. It doesn't have to be a grand shift in your business model. It's often it's things that you don't even realize you're doing that are different. Um, that could stand out and the other guy's not doing it, that's it.

[00:18:59] Right. Then you could educate that's. The whole idea of this type of appointment setting is to come out there and then simply educate them about something they don't know. Right. Right. And, and the thing is, is, you know, most people don't like to change and you're going to lose most deals to them doing nothing right.

[00:19:17] Or trying to improve what they currently have based on what they learned from you. Right. And maybe the four or five other vendors they might be talking to. Um, so you've got to educate them on that. Where, you know, the value is significant enough to go through with however uncomfortable changing is and, and trying to really minimize, you know, the, the pain of change, right.

[00:19:44] Because they typically think like it's going to cost me more. It's going to take time. It's going to take me away from doing these other things. And maybe it's just not quite worth enough going through them. Right. So how do you convince them to move forward? Um, you know, when people don't like change?

[00:20:01] Well, when I have one question I like to ask, especially if they want it, they think that they're going to try and get their current company to do it is I say, well, you know, it's like it, your current vendor knows your system. You feel comfortable, you feel all warm and cozy with that relationship. Yeah.

[00:20:18] You like our new offer of the class. Right. You like that new offer of everything in the cloud and not have to worry about, um, being hacked and all that stuff and be able to be mobile. Yeah. But you want you, do you want your new company to do it? So here's what I tell. And if you're listening guys write this down, this is like my coolest rebuttal.

[00:20:38] I tell people, look, your current vendor knows your system. And they're like, yeah, exactly. They know it's just what they don't know our system. We know the cloud and we've been doing the cloud for five years. So it doesn't matter that we don't know your system because we're not going to use your system.

[00:21:02] We're replacing it with our system that we know. So who knows your system? We do we know your new system. They know your old system and it blows people's minds when they think about it. And you can, you can adapt that to anything. You know, I, I want, um, I was starting my own company and I had no customers and I was a meeting with this, with this law firm.

[00:21:24] And she was convinced she loved our disaster. Recovery was state of the art. Right. And they didn't have it. Nobody else had it. We'd gone through all of these steps and she was thinking about signing up. And it's just, you asked the question there. How many other customers do you have? Right. How many references?

[00:21:40] Testimonials and me and my partner, we looked at each other,

[00:21:46] we just laughed. We both left. And we said, we don't have any customers, you know? So being open and brutally honest, but you know, this is a good thing for you. And she's like, really? She's like, yeah, first of all, I have all these employees I've been in the industry for 20. All my people have been, so we know the system, we just don't have current customers.

[00:22:07] We've all worked on customers. Like you, we have the experience I said, but you don't want somebody to show up and sell you this, that has all these customers, everything. Is there an old established company and they don't adopt new technology. Always a new guy on the block is going to like us is going to have the new technology.

[00:22:27] Yeah. And you know, sometimes people think like being small or being new is a bad thing, but in a lot of cases, it's a good thing because you know, sometimes the bigger companies, the bigger dogs on the street, they don't take, they're not as nimble. They can't be as creative in a lot of cases. They don't take care of the customer the way that the customer wants to be taken care of.

[00:22:48] So you can actually use it. To your advantage and, you know, with a proper mindset, that's a benefit. That's a, that's a pro not a negative thing. And, uh, in, in, in, you know, rather than coming up with some BS, you know, response, when you got asked that question, being brutally honest and authentic with your customer, uh, is a way to like, Hey, you know, this, this, this guy.

[00:23:14] You know, he's going to keep it real with us. He's going to tell us the truth, even if it's not what we want to hear. And that's the type of vendor that we want to work with. And what's powerful. Collin is that, that is a blueprint for how to deal with almost any of them. Literally, I call it, the glass is half empty and half full and you just have to switch your focus and think about it.

[00:23:34] And you think about your, maybe you're the glass half empty, or you think it's the negative, but there's always a positive there. And whatever. When I go with people, I literally go on, on overcoming objections. I go the full gambit. I talk about why, what they do so great. And I compliment it and I compliment them for going that route.

[00:23:51] And then I switch, and this is my model in my truck. I switched and said, well, you know, everybody doesn't do it that way. You know, a lot of people have found that doing it this other way has advantages. And then I go and I go to the classes at full, over here. And you just, you could do that for any, any rebuttal.

[00:24:08] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can't, you can't go, you know, telling them why, you know, what they have is is, is dog shit. It's not going to help you. That's right. Literally. That's how most people see. That's all. Yeah, because they're trying to just say, Hey, well, what you have is is, is crap. And what we have is better.

[00:24:30] So let's go on this journey together. And that just doesn't work, you know, like for all, you know, they're the ones that pick that solution, you know? And, and, and, and they, you know, who knows what was involved, how painful that change was, you know, how pissed off they are. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I mean, definitely saying, Hey, you know, that's great, you know, that you have that, or that's a, that's a great option, but, you know, might you maybe be open to this possibility, you know?

[00:25:03] And, and, uh, and that's how you can move the conversation forward and, and get to a place where you're booking 15 appointments per day. It's possible even 30. Um, yeah, I think that's possible. How many, how many calls did you have to book 30? Uh, and how long did it take you to book 30? Like just, you know, get break down the math there.

[00:25:26] Eight hours to book 38 hours to book 30. How many conversations in, in, in, in booking the 30. And what was the conversation to appointment conversion? Well, when I said, when I said 15 a day, I was talking to 40 people. So 40 prospects a day would net me 15 appointments. On average, when I said 30 in one day, the, the, the, uh, the odds were, I think it was almost 50, 50, 50% of the people I talked to set an appointment.

[00:25:57] So this is when I ran my call, my cold call center, or I ran for 13 years. It was a one, one day that I did that myself. And, uh, so like anything's possible. I mean, I think people could set 50, I mean, seamless say, hi, have you heard of that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's a way to get leads faster and quality. You qualify them.

[00:26:18] But as long as you qualify your list and you know, you have to know them, you have to know. The objections. Right? Cause I've even come up once for my brother-in-law or my best friend does this. And I just go and say, that's wonderful. And you know, having your friend do it, you know, you don't have to worry about trust.

[00:26:36] And I go on all that. And I said, well, let me ask you a question. Are you getting the friend special? And they're like, what's that? I was like, well, your friend, obviously giving you a special rate because you're friends and it was. I don't know. I don't know. I say, wouldn't it be a shocking if a stranger that you don't even know gave you a better deal than your friend, and then just start putting that doubt in their head.

[00:26:59] Yeah. And then I'm just like, you know what? I don't think you're going to switch my friend. He's probably giving you the friend special. Well, how about we, wait, wait, wait, don't go, David. Let's do it. Let's see. Let me just come out there to give you some numbers. Well, literally you can. If you're prepared for it, you could flip it script and get people thinking I'm like, maybe we should meet.

[00:27:20] You want to, you want to know? One of my personal favorites is, uh, is right here. Right? Everybody's heard this one, right? Oh, I'm loyal to my vendor, loyal to my vendor. Hey, you know, I totally understand. You probably have a fantastic vendor, but you're more loyal to your company than your vendor, right.

[00:27:36] They're like, oh yeah. Well, would you be open to the fact that there might be something better and are willing to take a look at that? Hm. Well, I do want to keep my job.

[00:27:49] That's another angle. Are you more loyal to yourself than the vendor after the company? So you have to change their thinking. They're dialed in. They're focusing on one thing. You're just changing their focus and getting to see another, another. Yeah. Yeah. PQ peaking the interest, you know, just sprinkling a little bit of curiosity, uh, to, to foster some willingness to continue to talk to you.

[00:28:13] That's it that's that's, that's the secret sauce. Right? Keeping it conversation going saying something, like I said before, saying something that, you know, they're going to be. If I tell them that they, they, their system's great, but they're going to love that. Right? If I say anything positive, compliment them, they're going to say yes.

[00:28:30] If I ask them, if they keep their options open, you know, like to say, do you do your, do your due diligence, right? And like you said, know your audience. If I'm calling like CFOs and control, This is the world they live in. Right. I know you like to do your due diligence. Let me ask you, when was the last time you compared?

[00:28:52] Oh, no, it's been a couple of years. Hmm. Maybe we should just to check that box, uh, come out and give you a fresh proposal. So just write anything you, you know, your audience well, um, it's like knowing that audience is probably the most supportive. Yeah. Yeah. Or, Hey, you know, technology has come a long way since, since, since you probably, you know, last looked at this, are you open to taking a look at some new things?

[00:29:18] Right, right. Yeah. Hey David, this has been fantastic, man. Really appreciate this conversation. Love this topic. Tons of value for the sales. Also's here looking to increase, you know, how many appointments they're booking per day. Uh, I think that the, the big takeaway is like the mindset, you know, having the proper mindset, focusing on those right.

[00:29:37] People that most people are just brushing off. Cause I think they're genuinely not interested. Um, but before we let you go, any final thoughts, uh, what do you have for folks? What are we going to drop in the share, uh, in the show notes for him? Oh, well, I, you know, you said you like to give away something to the audience and I thought it would be really cool as I came up with a diagram of a perfect coat.

[00:29:59] And so I'll be giving that to you and everybody listening can get a copy of that and then just outline. The basic things that you need to do to have a perfect cold call. There we go. So we will drop the link there for, for the diagram of the perfect cold call courtesy of David Walter. It'll be in the show notes for you, sales hustlers.

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