Collin Mitchell welcomes Shaheem Alam in this episode of the Sales Hustle podcast. Let’s hear from Shaheem as he shares some of the common mistakes on top of funnel outbound prospecting and what is working in all the different channels out there.
Starting his first venture at the age of 20, Shaheem experienced incredible highs and crushing lows. Sales, presentation, and management are just a few of the skills he gained, which came from hard work, door to door, cold calling, and managing a team of thirty sales reps. After pursuing a few ventures in this realm, he gained a lot of knowledge about growing sales, building teams, and measuring success.
Taking this knowledge, Shaheem Co-Founded FiveRings Marketing which aims to help SaaS companies grow their revenue by providing them meetings with decision-makers.
You can learn more and connect with Shaheem Alam on the links below:
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Episode 122 - Shaheem Alam
Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building process and win their dream clients.
[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin. What is happening? Sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode today. I've got Shahim alum and we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics, top of funnel, uh, outbound prospecting. We're going to talk about some common mistakes and dig into, you know, what's working with LinkedIn email phone, um, and this is what they do over there, uh, with their outsource top of funnel.
[00:00:56] Uh, services that they provide. So Shane, thanks so much for coming on today, before we get into the tactical stuff. Just give us the short version of your sales story. Yeah, for sure. No, thanks Colin for, uh, for having me happy to be here. Um, my, my sales story actually started, um, I was in uni. I was in university.
[00:01:15] Um, and then for a few specific reasons I had to drop out of university and I was looking for a job, found this door to dorky. That was commission only selling air conditioners door to door in Toronto. My kind of my kind of. Yeah, man. Um, it started in the first three weeks, the zero sales I'm working like six days a week.
[00:01:37] They're 10 hours door to door, door, knocking, knocking, knocking, and just getting nothing. Um, but then, you know, had a really, really good sales manager. I did like a lot of my own due diligence and learning as well. Finally picked it up, got my first sale. And then, yeah, I did that for like two or three years.
[00:01:51] Built a big team. Um, yeah. Did eventually went to the appointments and things like that. Then eventually after like three years moved into tech sales, uh, you know, became an SDR for a, for a FinTech company then became an Navy for another company, um, and really found myself in these SAS and tech sales kind of, uh, companies.
[00:02:09] And then eventually, uh, Cole founded five rings marketing, where we help other tech companies, uh, with the top of funnel lead generation. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, I mean, they say you got to build a thick skin in sales, right? Like it's, I mean, door to door, door to door sales. We'll do that for you that like, you know, and I always like say this, like, you know, when I have kids, I'm going to put them in a door to door.
[00:02:33] Like you want to become Tufts. You want to like, learn how things, how people work, how to give around like, yeah. Door to door. Go sell some crap door to door. Yeah, I know, man. I, uh, I got three kids and my wife started to got them started early. You know, when the neighbors are selling lemonade, they're, they're running up there negotiating, you know, if they're selling it for, if they're selling it for a buck 50, they're asking for three cups for two.
[00:03:02] Yeah. Yeah. All right. So wow man, door to door for three years. Uh, you probably developed a lot of skills. I mean, what are some things you learned early on that just really, you know, still stick with you today? Yeah, absolutely. I think like number one, It's when it comes to like sales, like it's, it's a numbers game.
[00:03:20] Like door to door is a numbers game. That's not one thing that I've definitely learned in terms of when it comes to sales. If I'm not 200 doors, I know I'm coming out with something. So at the end of it, it kind of like comes down to whoever, like just grinds the hardest, like that's the raw prospecting grind that you can kind of do right door to door.
[00:03:37] So like, just that raw hard work I would say is one big thing. Number two, I would say that. Sales is learnable. Like I said, like the first three weeks, like I don't come from a sales background. I was never like, when I was in like high, like early high school and middle school, I was a very shy kid as well, you know, and I just feel like it is learnable.
[00:03:54] You can, you can learn it. And for me, it was Brian. Tracy's psychology of selling that did a lot to help me quite a bit back in the day. Um, that'd be number two for sure. And I think number three, what I learned from all of that is just. Uh, out of all the things, I mean, in terms of a scale, I would say like, just understanding who you're, who you're talking to and the person you're talking to, and then just like mirroring, matching, you know, those kinds of things are super, super empowering.
[00:04:26] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely numbers. I get that. Right. You know, knock on a lot of you, you know, you got to get enough bats to, to, to be able to swing. Right. Um, but then making the most out of those opportunities when somebody does, you know, answer them. Or pick up the phone or reply to your message. Right.
[00:04:46] And understanding who you're talking to. Right. So being able to adjust and, and really actively listen to ask proper questions and drive the conversation in the right way, because, um, you know, little, little details. When you're, when you're, when you're having conversations with people. And I think a lot of times salespeople are looking for that silver bullet.
[00:05:06] Like, Hey, give me the script, give me the playbook. If they say this, I'll say that. But like dealing with people is just waiting too dynamic. And, you know, you, you said being able to mirror and be able to, you know, match and be able to like really understand who you're talking to is such a big thing to learn in sales.
[00:05:23] If you want to be successful. For sure. And actually, you know, and I'm going to scratch that. I think the biggest thing that I've picked up from doing door ice, where it's seven days a week, seven days a week, it was negative 20 degrees outside. I'm out there knocking doors. And I think like the biggest thing that I've learned is if you want to succeed in sales, it's not a nine to five.
[00:05:41] Like it's not a nine to five, like your grind, you got to put in 10, 12 hours a day to get the results. And then it's rewarding. The reward is there, but you got to put in that work. And I think that's probably the biggest lesson from sales. Right. And, and I think when you, if you're just getting started in a new role, or if you're just getting started in sales for the first time, like you gotta be able to put the, you gotta be willing to put, you know, make some sacrifices and, and put the grind, you know, time in.
[00:06:09] Um, that was one of the things that I learned early on, you know, I didn't even, I barely made it through high school. I didn't go to college. Like there was none. Lot of opportunity for me, my first real job was lugging around furniture. Uh, so when I got a sales job, I was like, I'm going to make the most of this.
[00:06:25] Cause you know, people around me were making a lot of money. Uh, it seemed like an opportunity and I didn't think I was going to get many others. And so it was, you know, 12, 14 hour days getting the list ready on the weekend and you know, no, it doesn't have to be like that forever, but in the beginning in a new role, In sales for the first time, like you gotta be willing to put that work in and something that's, you know, somebody told me early on is like, you want to be successful here, just outwork your competition and you'll be fine.
[00:06:54] Exactly. No, I a hundred percent agree with that. Um, and I tell my guys this all the time, like, it's, it's the work that like you don't practice in the game, right? You're an NBA player. You don't practice during the game. You practice during practice and you play during the game. It's the same thing, your eight hours of work or whatever hours work you don't practice in that time.
[00:07:12] You got to practice outside of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love that you brought that up and you know, that's why there's things like sales communities and, you know, doing some, you know, role-playing with your peers or your coworkers, you know, um, asking some friends to review your email, copy, you know, like, you know, send them your prospecting videos, get some feedback, like, you know, you can't just send a bunch of crap out and see what's going on.
[00:07:37] A hundred percent, man. No, man. I was at like, when I first started in door to door, I'd be at a bar with my friends like that. Hold on. And let me pitch you a first and that's, you know, I'm like under the furnace right here and I'm like going through the whole Fitch when I'm at home, I'm watching my mom I'm pitching my, you know, my brother's like it's.
[00:07:52] Yeah. It's it's crazy, but it pays off. Yeah. I mean, pitch some people that can give you some real honest feedback, right? Like they have no, they have no, uh, you know, it's not gonna matter to them if they hurt your feelings. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. All right. So, so, uh, then you got into tech sales and, and, and that's where you really started to develop a lot of the things, uh, that you now do for companies, right?
[00:08:21] Exactly. Um, yeah, like I started, uh, working at this, um, it was a startup called street context based on a Toronto. Um, I just, the SDR like entry level, man, I went from like the sales manager, like for a door to door, boom, boom. Straight to entry-level SDR. Um Hmm. Yeah, it was just cold calling, finding leads, you know, on LinkedIn, getting their phone numbers, calling their office, getting past gatekeepers, sending emails, and back then they didn't even have an email automation thing.
[00:08:49] I'm like copy pasting templates from a Google doc, you know, sending those off and getting responses. But just like a lot of manual yeah. Manual, manual work. And that's where I was. Okay. So this is the other side of sales. Um, the digital side is, yeah. Yeah. All right. So, uh, I love that because you went from like managing a team to actually go into, to SDR.
[00:09:10] And I think, you know, a lot of people trying to break into tech sales don't realize. Unfortunately, a lot of tech companies are not going to love it. If you don't have a lot of tech experience, I don't personally agree with that. Um, but that's just, that's the world that we live in. Um, and sometimes you gotta be willing to, you know, take a lower role.
[00:09:32] Just to get in and then, you know, show him what you can do. I mean, I was just, you know, I just saw somebody post something on LinkedIn. I mean, they took it, you know, they took the STR position three months, got promoted to an SDR leader. After another six months got promoted to hae, like is possible if you get in there and show them what you can do, but you know, if you can get over yourself and your ego to maybe take a move like you did, and it clearly paid off.
[00:09:56] Yeah, exactly. And, and it was a, it was a crazy ride. And I'm like the reason why. Does tech sales at all is because like, I didn't want to be in the door to door game for them. The rest of are
[00:10:09] crazy man. A lot, a lot of reasons, but basically, you know, like I didn't want to be 40 and still managing a door to door team and going out on the field, blah, blah, blah. So I was okay. Like, let's switch. That was a career move. But around that time, and I'll tell you a bit of a personal story is I made a lot of money doing pornography.
[00:10:27] I also spent it all terrible financial decisions when I was younger in my early twenties of worst, worst financial decisions. Um, and then I also spent the money that I should have paid the taxes cause it was all a hundred percent commission. Right. So I'm working at street context and I'm working, um, you know, as an SDR, right.
[00:10:45] I get a call CRA kind of revenue agency over here. Uh, I get a call from them. They come to my house. That was my business address, like when I was doing Gordon door and they give me a bill for $110,000. Okay. Like 110 K. And I'm an SDR making like 40 kids. Plus a little bit of whatever. So after working at St cons for a little bit, I was okay.
[00:11:07] Like I gotta go back to HVAC. I got to go back to the door to the door. So then I actually left the tech world. I went back there, started making like the kind of money I was making before, again, pay it, started paying off, um, you know, the, the big, my, my debt to the government. Um, and then eventually like working through like a few, like another, I would say.
[00:11:29] Year and a half, two years of doing HVAC sales. Then I was in a position where I. Came back and then started working for a company called Renner run, which is a construction technology company. Um, then, and over there, then I was an AAE. Um, and yeah, so it was kind of like crazy as like, you know, door to door, get into tech sales and learn this digital stuff.
[00:11:52] Oh shit. Gotta get back into the, back into the grind or again, and then come back in. And then from there I was like, all right, I'm in a much better place. Now I can actually focus on, you know, building a future. Wow. Wow. What a wild ride. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's not. Do you ever just deer just knock on doors occasionally for fun?
[00:12:11] Uh, honestly, like, you know, just to get another day out there on the phone. Just get out there. It's like, I wish that was a service that we could offer as a company. We do like, you know, LinkedIn cold calling email door to door.
[00:12:30] Just, just to see if you still got it right. Oh yeah, exactly. Especially now, like I think COVID definitely put up, probably did a big reset on door to door. Cause nobody knocked doors for a year. Right? So these homeowners they're there, they're not annoyed anymore of all these different people coming to their door and something different kinds of stuff.
[00:12:47] Right. Yeah. I was actually thinking about that when you were talking about, I was like, man, if you did door to door during COVID, that's a tough gig. You know, people will be yeah. Offended if you knocked on their door. Like, I mean, they already are in most cases, but they would really be pissed off, but now, or it could be the other side, right?
[00:13:08] Like you, they're not seeing anybody there. They're super pumped, answer the door because somebody is coming to visit. Exactly. You know, they might invite you in for coffee or something, or, right, right. Yeah. No for sure, man. Yeah. Cause it got to a point where it was also so saturated. Like everyone's selling something Gordon there's like driveway, ceiling companies, uh, you know, cable and phone companies going door to door, energy companies, gasket, like everything is door to door.
[00:13:32] Right. And yeah, some homeowners will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, so, so tell me, let's, uh, let's deliver on our promise here. We talked about, you know, we, we, we said, we're going to talk about some of the common top of funnel mistakes that you see companies making. And then let's kind of talk about, talk through like what you see.
[00:13:54] That's really working right now, you know, on these different channels, like LinkedIn email, Yeah, for sure. So I think that, you know, working with so many different size and technology companies, one of the biggest kind of mistakes or trends that we see is that a lot of founders will build their product.
[00:14:14] Then try to find a buyer, right. Versus like finding the buyer first and then building a product. Right, which is how it to be. But most people just build a product and then hope to find a buyer after. So a lot of the work that we ended up doing is really helping them find who their right buyer is. We're doing a lot of customer discovery for, for our clients.
[00:14:33] These are early state startups. And so. You know, that would be one of the biggest mistakes is like, just not understanding like who your buyer is, what, and then, so there's a lot of the work that we do is really, uh, involved in building a customer profile and like buyer personas to understand. Okay, well, you're saying that this is what you think your buyers should be.
[00:14:52] We think that these two other personas are also, you know, a really good target for you and we're going to dive deep. We're going to learn, you know, what keeps them up at night? What are they. Pain points were, how does your product actually provide them with an emotional value? Right? Like we all know a feature selling doesn't work.
[00:15:08] You're going to have all the features in the world, all the bells and whistles, whatever it doesn't matter. Like what is it actually doing for them? And what emotional value is that delivering? So that, I think like, if, whether you're a salesperson or a startup founder, you know, starting sales is spend a lot of time really learning about your buyers and.
[00:15:29] Yeah. Full focus on that quite a bit. Yeah. So even before your products fully flushed out is what you're saying. And, and, and I see more companies. I see more companies getting on board with this, because I think that this, this people beaten on this drum for a little while now, where people are starting to realize like, oh, you know, maybe my idea is not the greatest, greatest thing ever.
[00:15:51] And you know, maybe there's a lot of things that I haven't considered. And so I see a lot of people more like, you know, beta rolling stuff out, you know, getting some early adopters, collecting feedback, you know, really slowing things down before, you know, they're really getting after it because. Yeah, enough.
[00:16:09] People have been burned of like, you know, building, you know, something that nobody really gives a crap. Exactly exactly. And your product doesn't even need to be the best to sell it. Like it needs to be good enough, right. Because if you have the greatest product, but you don't know how to sell it, or you're not targeting the right people, then you're not going to stick around very long, even if your product is great.
[00:16:34] Yeah, exactly. Who are you building it for? Like, who is your product built for? Right. Like, well, who do you have in mind when you're building your product? And then when you're building it well, how well do you understand that person? So for example, our services, right? Like we know our bread and butter, our target, our niche is B2B SaaS founders that are, that are, you know, mid, early stage.
[00:16:54] We understand them. We know their pain points, we know what they're doing. Uh, you know, what their problems are, what their goals are and things like that. And so when in our sales presentations, like our sales team, they'll drop in keywords that will resonate with them. Those ask questions that we know are relevant to them at the stage that they're at.
[00:17:14] And, you know, A million lead generation companies out there, you know, like that's not, it's, that's what it is, what there's so many lead-generation competencies. And you know, one of the ways that we were able, we've been able to differentiate ourselves is really framing our services in a way that's resonates with you, startup founders.
[00:17:34] You know, our packages are not, we used to call our packages like basic all-inclusive VIP, but then we did, um, a lot of work. Like now our packages are called go-to-market right. Right because what they're going to market, that's what they're doing. The language, the language and the messaging. You use matter so much roll much because they're going to market.
[00:17:53] We don't talk about lead generation. We talk about customer discovery. Great. We help you do customer discovery and get your first few customers that you're looking to get. Right? Like, so things like that is when I, when I say that to a founder, they're like, oh, like, yes, like these 10 other companies are helping me with leads.
[00:18:10] You're helping with customer discovery, which is the stage that I'm at. So. Yeah. Yeah. Now, you know, I, I get, you know, being specific and sort of niching down. Right. And then speaking the language of the people within that niche or that, you know, subset of people, um, that need, you know, that this is going to resonate with now.
[00:18:30] I think a lot of people are a lot of times scared to go that route because then they think it's gonna, it's gonna scare off other potential people that, that maybe doesn't resonate with. So w what, what do you, what are your thoughts? I think that I don't think you can have a product and service that's for like everyone in the world.
[00:18:50] Right? Like that just doesn't work. So I think to a certain extent, you do need to know who you're building for, who your buyers are like, well, where's the best fit. Right. And it's okay to not have a good one. Right. If I'm on a meeting with a prospect and it's not a good fit, I'm just going to be honest. I say, Hey, like we could probably do this.
[00:19:08] This is probably going to be a two, three month thing and we'll try it out, you know, and we'll have a couple ideas of what we can do, but it's not our ideal fit, you know? Cause you're not, you're not a technology company. You just say you're like a consulting company selling something else. Like, we'll try it.
[00:19:22] Like we had a, you know, a client that was, uh, a design agency, for example, that's not our bread and butter. He knew. We were honest about it. He tried it out and it actually didn't work. And I, you know, and, and then that's all right, but you should know where your value is and then focus on selling. Yeah.
[00:19:40] Yeah. But even there's even value in what you just described there, right. Is, is, cause we talked a lot about like figuring out who your, who your niche is, you know, who you serve best whose problems you can solve. But like sometimes finding out who you're not a good fit for who you don't best serve.
[00:20:00] There's a ton of value. As well, right? Because nobody wants deals that are going to churn or aren't going to stick around, or you're not going to be able to deliver for, because that ruins your reputation. They typically take up a lot of time. It's hard to scale and be efficient, right. So, you know, now you now know, Hey, design agencies.
[00:20:21] They're not are there, those are not our jam. Like, so we don't have to waste time and, you know, trying to pitch and sell and figure out and churn and all of those things. And you can be more focused on the people that you can serve and do the best job for a hundred percent. And we learned that too, right at the beginning.
[00:20:39] Obviously, when you're a new company you're taking, whatever comes your way, you're, you're grabbing on type of thing. And you're trying. Yeah. But it's true. You get churn, you don't get good reviews. You don't get references from those guys. You wasted a lot of time. There's a lot of that. You know, a lot of pressure from clients and it's just, it's just not, it's just not a good thing.
[00:20:55] Versus when you know what works and you stay within that, you get those referrals, you get good case studies, you can share that are relevant, close, more deals, you know, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, it's, it's hard for sellers or founders that sell, uh, you know, to be disciplined enough to like turn away business.
[00:21:15] If you kind of know, it's not a good fit. Um, but if you, if you do want to try something, just like you mentioned, right. Like be super honest and authentic and transparent about it. Like, Hey, We typically don't serve people like you. Uh, I think we can maybe work it out, you know, in, in, and we can give it a try because then at least they don't feel totally burned if it doesn't work out.
[00:21:37] Like if they're willing to go on that journey with you, knowing that it's a bit of an experiment, then at least you can. You know, on good terms. Cause I like to tell everybody that I work with like, Hey, the goal is to deliver a good experience regardless of the result. And you know, sales hustlers are probably like, geez, you're saying that again because they heard me say it a million times, but it's just so true in, in a, in a love, you know, reminding people of that.
[00:22:01] Because whether you do business together, whether you don't do business or you do business and stop doing business, like you need to deliver a good experience. Exactly. And in a lot of that, delivering a good experience comes down to managing expectations and that's all you're really doing at that point.
[00:22:15] Right. You, by being honest, you're managing expectations. You're not selling, you know, the dream and then delivering nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So, all right. So, so you guys are working a lot with, you know, companies that are trying to, you know, find their product market fit and early stage. Um, you know, you mentioned you guys are using LinkedIn email phone.
[00:22:36] Um, what are some things that you see, you know, that are working or not working across those channels? For sure. So, um, first things, first, your name, she got to a certain set of people on LinkedIn, right? So again, going back to that customer persona buyer persona, we spent a lot of time researching and understanding who we're reaching out.
[00:22:55] So that's number one, number two, that translates into all that research translates into our messaging sequence. And when we reach out to them and you know, if you're on LinkedIn, like don't be one of those people that are sending essays that are sending like those big, big messages, you know? No one's reading them.
[00:23:11] Right. And it's just, and it's, it's really interesting how LinkedIn and email they're both like texts. They're both visual, whatever, but they actually have very different approaches that work. People are on LinkedIn to network and you have a little chat thing. It's almost like, you know, you're, you're texting it's on your phone.
[00:23:28] Right. And so you have to almost treat it as if you typed out your message on your phone and you sent it right. And keep it casual, keep it just a lot less formal, a lot less wordy, but get to the point. Right. And some of the things that are working for us and this actually ends up changing every three, four months.
[00:23:47] We're always experimenting something that works, works for a little while everyone else adopts it too. And then it stops working and then we got to come up with something else. Um, but what's working now is like, just, you know, we'll just say like, Hey, Hey John. Yeah. Um, you know, we're working on something that I think might be relevant to you or we're working on something that I think might be interesting to you given your background, we're building a platform that does, that provides X benefit by doing, you know, X, Y, Z one, to run it by you get your thoughts, would you be opposed to a conversation?
[00:24:15] And that's actually like, I'm going to give that away. Like, would you be opposed to a conversation. Killer CTA. That's working for us. It's like Chris FOSS. Right? Getting the know, uh, getting people to agree with you by saying no. So instead of saying, would you be open to a conversation? Would you be open?
[00:24:29] Um, it's working pretty well. And anyway, so that kind of a format, or just asking for like feedback, asking for thoughts. No one wants to book a call. No one wants to book a meeting. No one wants to Calendly link shoved in their face. Like just be very like colleague to colleague type of approach. And you know, that's, what's working on LinkedIn.
[00:24:46] Yeah. Yeah. I love so many things about that. Um, I love that you mentioned, you know, it's a DM, you think of a DM, like a text message, right. And you know, you use the language like you're texting a friend now, maybe there's some things that you, you, you would text her friend that you're not gonna put in a LinkedIn DM.
[00:25:05] Uh, and using language where like, Hey, we're equals, right? Because a lot of times people get really caught up in like, you know, being very submissive in their messaging of like, you know, there's some sort of hierarchy thing there and it's like, no, we're peers. Like, Hey, you know, I'm just wanting to get your opinion on this, get your thoughts.
[00:25:24] I love the, you know, going for the, no there with, you know, are you opposed to, or, you know, I love. Well, one that Jason bay likes to use a lot, which is, Hey, would it be a terrible idea, but I can make an assumption that it's, it's an, it's a no, um, in, in, in, you know, helping them sort of feel like, oh, I got the power, the control here.
[00:25:43] Um, and so there's a lot of psychological things there in the type of messaging that you're talking about to drive results in. And yeah, man, nobody wants. A link shoved down their throat. Like, you know, when you see four paragraphs in a link, like people don't even read that shit. They delete it. They block you.
[00:26:02] They're pissed off that they even accepted your connection. Yeah, exactly. And you know, a lot of times when we do onboard a new client, they always ask us like, Hey, like what kind of marketing collateral do you need? What links do you need? What kind of this, this other, honestly, we don't put links in our messaging sequence.
[00:26:16] Like this is LinkedIn. He wants that. We're just, it's just a conversation. That's all it. Is it connected with you? You're both professionals stop the conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, calendar links actually piss some people off. Yeah. There's some people like people have just overused, the Calendly link thing that some people even just don't even like links, like, you know, better call to action is, you know, any thoughts, what do you think are you post to, would it be a terrible idea?
[00:26:46] Um, those are all great examples of, you know, where you're, you're just looking for people to raise their hand, right? Like, I mean, Come on. How many people have you? I mean, if you're sending links out there, like, please, is that shit working? Like it can't be working like nobody's clicking on that. It's like, Hey, this looks so interesting.
[00:27:06] I'm going to take time out of my day during the time, like I'm super pumped. And if they do. They typically, you might book some meetings, but I'd love to see what your show rate is. Yeah. Yeah. I doubt there's even meetings being bugged, honestly, from that. Um, even when someone expresses interest in a meeting, like, Hey yeah, sure.
[00:27:26] Let's let's chat. Let's let's meet whatever. Even then we don't send a county link. Like it's our best practice to just suggest two or three time slots you want to create as a little friction on the prospect's end as possible to get on a call with you. But if you send them a county and even then it's like, now they have to open up the county link, look at their calendar, match up times and do all your work for you.
[00:27:47] You know? And just a couple of times they'll pick one, send them, send them an invite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and same with email, like emails gotta be shorter, too, same sort of, same sort of messaging there. You know, you can put a little more context into email, but still same, same practice. Yeah. With you with email.
[00:28:06] It's really good. Um, so will you use like a multi-channel sequence? Right? So we'll pair whoever we're reaching out to on LinkedIn, we're reaching out to them on email as well. And you know, we'll use simple subject lines, like introduction question, mark. You know, quick question has been like a timeless one.
[00:28:22] It always works for like five, 10 years now. I swear is a, is a really good one and it just starts talking like, Hey, John tried to connect on LinkedIn. Boom. You have context, right? They're going to open that email and then. The first line, just make it something that's relevant to them. Like a pain point that's relevant.
[00:28:39] Like they might, like, I know it's tough to, you know, meet KPIs when you can't do this. Or I know it's tough to do whatever, right? That's like, we're developing pretty much your solution. And then once I get your thoughts, would you be opposed to a conversation? Same thing. So on email, I think you are able, you are, it definitely works to have that pain point solution CTA.
[00:29:00] Um, that definitely works. It doesn't work on LinkedIn too much, but on email, that, that works really well. Yeah. Paired with the LinkedIn outreach, obviously as well. Yup. And then with the LinkedIn and the email touch, I mean, you're laying on the phone. Are you still seeing most meetings booked over the phone when using those other channels?
[00:29:20] Are, were you seeing the most, you know, conversion to meeting? So across the board where the best conversions are on LinkedIn, like that's just the channel of. Today, this generation or whatever, um, is the best channel to book meetings. And then after that, like email, it works for some clients. It doesn't work too well for others, right?
[00:29:40] When we're working with clients that are selling engineering software and we're reaching out to it, engineering, those kinds of people. We don't really get much results on email. We're reaching out to VPs of customer success, getting tons of meetings, right? So there's seems to be something with these personas and where they're more active and things like that on the, you know, on cold calling it's similar cold calling will work for some personas.
[00:30:04] It won't work for others. Right. And all three. And we tell this to our clients during our sales meetings too, is like, if they want to go for that full package, sometimes cold calling. Isn't done. Like cold calling again, it engineering those kinds of people, not, not the easiest cold calling. Cecil's like, you know, information security executives at not, not the easiest, um, calling HR and VP of people, VP of culture.
[00:30:29] We're doing that for one of our clients and that's actually performing better than LinkedIn and email because those guys that we get on a phone, we're able to talk to them, get, you know, have a conversation. And it's converting. So although LinkedIn is overall the best, it also depends on the person. Yeah.
[00:30:45] Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so thank you so much for coming on, man. Really appreciate it. Love this topic. Love learning a little bit more about you. Uh, just let all the sales house stores know where they can learn more about you, what you're doing, where they can follow you or any final thoughts. Yeah, for sure. Um, I mean five raise marketing.com.
[00:31:04] That's that's our website, you know, that's the best for our agency, but you can find me on LinkedIn, all them on LinkedIn farming smarter. On LinkedIn as well. Uh, yeah. Feel free to shoot me a message or connect. I'll definitely accept. Um, just to still send me. That's it or a link. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.
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