Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
July 12, 2021

Episode #118 Build Better Relationships And Make More Sales with Jeroen Corthout

Joining Collin Mitchell in this episode of the Sales Hustle Podcast is Jeroen Corthout. Let’s hear from Jeroen as he shares why Customer Relationship Management tools (CRMs) are dysfunctional and become more of a reporting rather than a sales tool.

Jeroen Corthout is the Co-Founder of Salesflare. A zero-input sales pipeline tool that thinks and works for its user and not the other way around.   

Jeroen is also the Founder of Doctura which works with tech startups and healthcare companies to develop their marketing and sales approach using the latest tech and insights.

Connect and get in touch with Jeroen on LinkedIn. Don’t forget the personal message!


To know more about Salesflare and try the software without creating an account, you can visit the link below. 


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Episode 118 - Jeroen Corthout

Welcome to the sales hustle. The only no BS podcast, where we bring you the real raw uncut experiences from sales makers across various industries. The only place where you can get what you're looking for. Uh, your sales game today's episode is brought to you by sales cast sales cast helps sales professionals transform the relationship building process and win their dream clients.

[00:00:30] I'm your host, Colin. What is happening is sales hustlers. Welcome to another episode. I'm super pumped today. I've got your own core health. He is the CEO and founder over at sales flair. So, uh, we're going to be talking about a very interesting topic today and something that I think a lot of you are probably interested to hear, um, his thoughts on.

[00:00:53] So we're going to be talking about why. CRMs don't work and then we'll see where it goes from there. Uh, your own. Thanks so much for coming on today. Give us a little bit of background and just give us the short version of your sales story. Uh, my story entails you mean? Yeah. Uh, first of all, super glad for the year.

[00:01:13] Um, um, uh, you were in the courthouse. My name is up. It's funny to pronounce it's. Uh, it's it's Dutch. How did I do? Did I, did I do? Okay. Did I pass that's okay. She said your role instead of your room. Um, but the way it was fine, maybe we'll have you back another time and I'll nail it super. Um, uh, my sales story, actually, I am, um, I never thought I was going to be in sales.

[00:01:40] Uh, honestly, um, I was always, uh, like on track to be an engineer. Um, that's also what I studied. Um, my, my first like professional thing I did, you could say like work sort of was building websites for people. I was like, I was 15, 16 or so. And then I started building some websites. Um, I was, it was really fun.

[00:02:08] I could create stuff or something I love to do, but also for people, which is also an aspect that is absolutely necessary for me is to be able to do it for someone and work together. Um, I then studied engineering with the idea that I was going to, uh, do some engineering job or maybe start my own website at the same company one day.

[00:02:29] Um, like, like a real serious one. The thing when I was young, um, and when I was actually applying for engineering jobs, after my studies. Um, I noticed that I didn't like any of the jobs I was offered. I wanted to do something with people, uh, and not be in the back room, uh, creating something. And I would it to be out in front of people and doing something with them.

[00:02:53] Um, so after a lot of frustrating interviews, um, one night before going, uh, going out, um, my, uh, my best friend and let me use credit cards. Uh, I applied for business school with it. I didn't have grape card at the time. And, uh, I, after going there, I got accepted and I just had to convince my parents. I was going to do in a year.

[00:03:21] And then it was going to cost some money when I was going to pay it all back to them. Um, I did that and actually that's put me on a totally different track because all of a sudden I could go into a marketing and sales. Um, I studied biomedical engineering. So I went into the healthcare sector, uh, at first, uh, mostly pharma.

[00:03:44] Um, I started off as a, as a marketing person in a pharma company called back, sir. Uh, what I was essentially doing was helping salespeople. Um, sell their stuff. So I would prepare materials for them and train them, uh, on how to use it mainly. And then also building some websites for doctors and for patients.

[00:04:08] Yeah. So how, yeah. So how, how do you think, uh, your marketing experienced has, has helped your, you know, your, your, your sales success? Cause you know, these days, sellers. Aren't just selling, you know, they gotta have some, some marketing skills or knowledge or experience, uh, to really, you know, be in, you know, a top producer.

[00:04:32] Yeah. I think what marketing teaches you is to, uh, see the bigger picture. Uh, that's basically what we're trying to do in marketing and scaling that sales, not just for one person, um, but for your customers as a whole, um, maybe try to segment, uh, your group of customers to make sure that you can have a better message for a group.

[00:04:53] Uh, while as a marketer, I think your sales experience teaches you how to still see the individuals, um, to have empathy with every single customer, how to, um, create solutions for them. Uh, it's sort of the flip side, uh, sort of the flip side of, of sales is marketing and, and then inside of marketing to sales.

[00:05:17] Yeah. I mean, there's still a lot of organizations that are trying to figure out how to get their sales and marketing teams, you know, on the same page and, and more aligned. So I've always found that, you know, sellers that understand the marketing side of the house, you know, do extremely well in marketing.

[00:05:36] You know, that really take time to get into, to know sellers and their needs. And, and what's going on on that side of the house, tend to do a much better job. So I'm always curious to learn more about people like yourself that, that kinda know, you know, both sides and, and how it's helped you. Yeah. Funny thing by the way is, uh, uh, when I went into marketing and pharma is, uh, when you go into marketing and phone, The track you follow and that everyone wants you to follow the first, go in sales.

[00:06:06] And then in marketing, I skipped that. I didn't want to do that sales job. I was like, I'm not going to be the way to remove doctors hate that don't want to do it. Um, and I found that one place where actually my boss, she came from, from finance, into marketing and she wanted to believe like I'm going to hire this engineering, do a year studying biomedical engineering, and he's going to do marketing.

[00:06:28] Normally I would never have worked. So I just effectively skipped sales, but then actually my sales experience started after that. Uh, because that, that marketing job was so boring that I've only done it for, um, I think in Denmark, Um, I found another job at a marketing consultancy that actually helped fund companies to adapt to the digital age.

[00:06:55] And you could say a pharma companies, uh, are sort of stuck in that sales model where they basically just sent a lot of sales reps to doctors and the more sales reps they send, the more sales they make, uh, that was the formula, uh, for most of the past century. In fact, But then with the internet coming, uh, uh, first of all, doctor, he was super tired of seeing salespeople.

[00:07:18] Uh, secondly, they can find everything on the internet. So why would they have to see a salesperson? Um, so that all started shifting and we helped, uh, companies to adapt to that. Um, the salespeople. So the marketers in pharma that came from sales job. Um, they didn't really have the necessary digital background.

[00:07:42] That's not really a fourth day of most salespeople, uh, all this digital stuff and building websites and all that. Um, so there was a huge gap for us to fill. So I was doing marketing consultancy and sales consulting too, to a certain extent, um, and selling that as a salesperson. And that's actually where I gained.

[00:08:01] Most of the sales experience was selling these, these consultancy to, uh, pharma companies, because I was, I was essentially responsible for a series of. Farmers. And, um, I would just find out what issues they had, where they were, where they wanted to go. Um, I would then make a proposal on how to do it. I would make a budget, a project plan.

[00:08:28] I would, I would make sure that internally we have the right people to execute it and manage the whole customer relationship to delivery. You know, the whole thing, getting invoices, baby. Wow. Wow. Like full cycle on both ends. Uh, I'm sure that that, you know, experience in itself has, has really kind of molded some of the things, you know, that have helped you, um, with your, with your current venture.

[00:08:53] So let's, let's dig into this topic. I think the sales hustlers are anxious to hear what you have to say about, uh, something that I think probably a lot of them are, you know, thinking themselves saying, well, why CRM. Don't work. Yeah. So they're there and that experience, uh, I, um, they actually worked a lot with Salesforce, um, in the company itself, we had Salesforce, um, but we also use it in a lot of projects with cost.

[00:09:20] Um, imagine the far more at that point, they were coming from some really old, uh, uh, system that Oracle was selling called CBO. So they were very excited to get on something new like Salesforce, um, at least looked like it was from the, from, uh, the 21st century. Um, but the thing was, as we were rolling it out and as we were using it ourselves, I always noticed that they didn't get the amount of usage that people always said it would be get it wasn't actually used as a sales tool.

[00:09:57] Um, in most cases it became a reporting tool and towards management, uh, which then immediately made it dysfunctional because the thing was, salespeople had to do an enormous amount of data inputs, uh, which in many cases was not super easy, very slow. Um, so they weren't really interested in doing that plus, uh, on the other end of the equation, they didn't get the whole lot back for it from that.

[00:10:24] So it's not like if they then filled it out, it was for easy for them to follow up their sales. Like it didn't really help them with doing that. Uh, and on top of that, uh, their manager would basically started looking at what they were doing, which they didn't really like too much. So the combination of all of these things made that salespeople just put the essence in there.

[00:10:50] Like you, you basically fill your pipeline so that they see you, or you're doing something. If they're required to log some calls and lock some calls, uh, I want you to put people on their newsletter. You do that as well, but you're not going to, um, fill out like, uh, diligently all the things you discussed.

[00:11:10] And when you were in touch with people, New people that I met at the company or that you're selling to whatever, uh, all the level of detail that you need to actually be successful with CRM to form your sales better. And all the things sales managers want to do that and never got in there. And I honestly.

[00:11:32] Never understood that. And at some point I started, uh, thinking, oh, sort of the way the world was or something. And it couldn't be solved. Was it just some of your own frustration out of things that you had used and seen, um, over time? Yeah, I, I, my, my frustration, uh, was, was mostly that, for instance, I was using this, uh, modern, uh, to do list apps, like, like winter list at that time.

[00:12:00] And then, then I was using Salesforce and the two things seemed so different, uh, that I, I didn't understand how that was possible because both were software companies, the one, uh, former consumers, of course. And the other one for, uh, for enterprises. But it's so weird that just that the do app could be, could have such a different usability in both systems.

[00:12:28] So , so what I hear you saying is like, kind of like less is more like keeping it simple. Um, people are more willing to actually use it and have a better experience, um, when it's more simple, straightforward, and really just focuses on the core needs that they have. That's definitely part of it. I think, I think first of all, uh, salespeople, uh, need to have something that, uh, they can easily work with.

[00:12:53] Uh, they need to understand it. It doesn't need to be too much work, uh, to, uh, manage it like that. The amount of time they spend managing the software should be, should be very limited. Uh, but most also. The whole expectation that comes with the software, um, where, where they say like, okay, now you're going to fill this out out with all these tiny details, uh, throughout all your sales work.

[00:13:20] And you're going to spend an enormous amount of time on that. And you need to always remember to put every little thing I think, in the CRM. Um, I don't think that is realistic. And, um, actually when, uh, when we were doing, uh, customer interviews about seven years ago, um, and, uh, when starting a sales flair, um, I often asked about this also companies would say like, yes or CRM is not used to the fullest.

[00:13:49] And then I was like, okay. And how can we fix that? And what they would say was, well, That this is the thing. Salespeople are lazy. They just need to fill it out. And if they do that and everything is solved, but I don't think that you can expect that it's not because somebody's somebody decided that that should work that way.

[00:14:17] Uh, that it's also the emissions shower. Yeah.

[00:14:25] I'm just curious to find out, like, what things, what sort did you get like feedback from other salespeople or was a lot of this, just your, your, your own experiences of, you know, sort of coming to this conclusion of, of what matters most, you know, in a CRM? No, I think, I think most of it was, uh, it was a public school.

[00:14:51] Uh, fact that, uh, the software was to come with. So, uh, the fact that you had to do a lot of data, but stay until we get a whole wall of, uh, uh, failure for it to return. And that it was more of a tool for managers and for salespeople, everybody knew that, but nobody was, was thinking it could be changed. Um, and well, we actually saw them.

[00:15:14] Um, is that a part of the issue there is, is, is the data. Uh, and that it doesn't have to be an issue that actually you can, you can get that information from other places. Uh, you just have to pull it together from your emails, your calendar, your phone from social media company, databases, uh, email tracking where sidetracking.

[00:15:37] And if you take that data that is already in all these places together, then you have the data you need in serum and you don't need to spend every day copying all that information. Uh, computers can do that work in a much better way for you. Yeah. It's more consistent, more reliable. You know, uh, sales managers are happy, right?

[00:15:58] Because they don't have to rely on humans to, uh, input the data that they're, you know, constantly, you know, beating on the drum of, you know, why people are not, you know, utilizing these fancy, very expensive tools that they're paying a ton of money for. Um, and so what you're saying is like, you really just simplified it and, and, and, you know, kind of solved.

[00:16:21] Problem. Why, why has nobody else done this? Or, you know, why had they not done it before? Uh, I think two reasons. One is that, uh, the prevailing notion is that it it's just the salespeople that are lazy and the software is good enough and, you know, that's the way it is. Um, and then secondly, for existing existing CRM system, Um, it's very hard to build something fully automated it's, um, from something that is manual, uh, it's easier like minutes, uh, from the ground up.

[00:16:56] If you, if you start building something and your, your, your premises. Okay. Uh, this is going to be an automated system, which still allows manual, uh, data, but, uh, it's much easier to build on if you already have a manual system that you wouldn't want to then make fully. Got it. Got it. Okay. And, and, and so, uh, what's some of the feedback that you guys are getting now from, from people using the platform, um, began to all kinds of feedback, positive feedback, negative feedback, overwhelmingly positive.

[00:17:30] I would say. Um, they actually, if you look at our metrics, for instance, um, I heard once from the Salesforce executive that, uh, only, uh, 20% of the, the, the licenses they sell are actually used in our case. Um, I think we're currently at about 90%, uh, usage on, uh, on my sister's like active usage. Wow. Wow. How does that compare to other CRMs?

[00:18:01] Yeah. I, I don't know data from, uh, from our small business yards, for instance, but in the case of, of, of Salesforce, it's more around 20%. Like I said, that's what I heard at least. Wow. Wow. Okay. So that's, that's a pretty big difference. That is a big difference. Um, it's uh, yeah, I don't know. There's, there's a lot of possibility in the, uh, still in many companies too.

[00:18:31] Fix the figure and set them, maybe, maybe I can give a few tips there, uh, which are not at all related to, uh, or something I see in many companies that don't really make a thoughtful selection when it comes to CRM and they don't implement it. And it's, and it's actually like, don't implement it in the right way.

[00:18:54] And it's. Uh, really simple. Um, it's actually, there's, there's, there's three main things which, uh, which you need to think about it will really set you apart from 99% of the unit companies. First don't just take CRM into Google. Uh, you will not end up with the right CRM. Uh, I assure you. Uh, I know that's what most companies do.

[00:19:16] Like they're like best CRM or something. I'm always surprised how many people that I come across. Occasionally they like don't even have a CRM at all. It's mind blowing. It's mind blowing how long sometimes people wait to actually get a CRM, uh, as a step number zero, then, um, Well, how do you know that you need a CRM?

[00:19:43] Um, I think when you notice that you have somewhere above like 10, 20, um, leads or customers at any point in your pipeline, it starts becoming more difficult to, uh, manage that. Uh, you can start off with a sheet, of course, but this is very diff uh, very quickly going to become difficult because the sheet.

[00:20:08] Um, it can have some information about the customer and you can have the status in there, but as soon as you want to have some idea of, of the timeline, this is something that is extremely difficult to, uh, keep in a sheet and it's very manual. Uh, you'll find the same issue with a sheet as in a CRM that doesn't really help you with the data input.

[00:20:28] Is that at some points, uh, nothing is up to date anymore and you sort of lose the overview there. Um, I think if you, if you start scaling around 20 deals or so at any point with 20 relationships, you need the follow-up, then you need a CRM. And also, uh, another point at which a lot of companies get a CRM is when they start working together with each other.

[00:20:54] Um, if you are sharing communication with a certain customer, so then it also makes sense to go. Right, right. Okay. Okay. So then back to step one, right? Don't just Google CRM. Yeah. The are first figure out why you need them. It seems a simple thing, but the, is it, is it because you want to follow up your sales better?

[00:21:18] Is it because you have a, um, an and you want to manage your relationships as a real estate person? You know, you want to keep relationships and at some point yourself, Or is it because you have an e-commerce, uh, shop and you want to get repeat sales or is it because you're a coach and you want to get people to, uh, to get at some point after a lot of content from your bio course, and these are all wildly different software systems that you need for, for these purposes.

[00:21:49] So that's step number one. When, you know, that that subset of serums will already become way smaller. Um, like if you volunteer and do those conferences, there is a 650 plus CRMs. Uh, if you know that it's, uh, one of these things, if you don't have a much smaller set, then look through those. Um, to see which ones might fit you best.

[00:22:17] Some of them are for enterprises. Some of them are small businesses. Those are also wildly differences. Don't get into price here. If you're a small business and the other way around it, the, it will work out as well. Um, well that, or how about people that are maybe like, thinking ahead, you know, Hey, maybe this is like how far ahead should be the, you know, Migrating systems is, is a huge pain, right?

[00:22:43] So, you know, how far ahead do you think people should be thinking as far as like, okay, here's my needs today and here's what I need, but here's, you know, the short of growth that maybe we're anticipating and here's where we might be in one, two or five years. And is this going to still suit our needs? Um, or are we going to have to deal with a really, you know, pain in the neck migraines?

[00:23:05] Yeah. Uh, I think this is very much depends on, uh, the size and speed of your company. Uh, if you're in a very large company and you're going to get an enterprise CRM, you're probably looking at horizons of somewhere, uh, six to 10 years or so. And then you better buy something that can grow with you for awhile.

[00:23:24] Otherwise, it's going to be a horrible experience and you'll constantly have consultants, uh, building stuff and shipping data from one place. Right. If you're a small business and you, you are the type of business that can make decisions pretty quickly, then you can switch CRMs in the matter of, uh, days or, or, or weeks.

[00:23:47] Some months depends on how big you're starting to become a small business. Your Amazon much, much easier to go from the one to the other. Um, you couldn't just take your data and export it and put it in the other one and you'll be up and about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now what about, you know, um, you know, talking through that, just kinda made me think of another thing, um, which is, you know, how do you know like which CRM, you know, so we're talking about growing out of a CRM, right.

[00:24:19] And kind of making the right choice, but how do you pick the right CRM, CRM? That's also not going to hinder growth as well. And, uh, why do we think that within the group, that would be the, I mean, like, you know, just having a good idea of, of, of what your needs are and what are going to make things easier for your sellers to get, to hit those growth benchmarks that you're looking for?

[00:24:42] Well, I think, I think that's where step two comes into play. And so step one was knowing why it needed a serum and then sort of, uh, uh, making the, the, the central serum smaller so that you, you focus much better on the right ones for you. Then when you have a list and you want to try, uh, involve your sales team.

[00:25:01] Uh, this has, uh, two big advantages. One, um, if your, your sales people, uh, vested and see that they like one more than the other, uh, you know, in the end that they are way more likely to use it. And it's, uh, it's helpful. Um, plus the fact that you've involved them in the, in the process makes that the buyer also will be much higher.

[00:25:27] So it's not, you imposing a CRM on them at some point, it's you finding a CRM together? So it's a much better outcome in the end. I think that's a, I think that's a fantastic, yeah, I think that's a fantastic tip. And I think unfortunately that's one that I think. A lot of people might skip or not consider like actually involving their sales team in the buying process of the CRM, which makes a tremendous amount of sense because one they're the ones that can really test it to say, Hey, is this going to fit all our needs?

[00:25:57] Is this going to make your job easier? Is this gonna, you know, is this what is going to work based on our needs? Um, and if they feel that they're part of that decision, then you're absolutely right. They're going to have, you know, much more uh buy-in and, and significantly higher user adoption. Um, should they go with any particular CRM that they were involved in, in making the decision?

[00:26:20] Yeah, definitely. We, we help many hundreds of companies each month to get onto a serum. I can, I can tell you that the amount that actually involved their salespeople and is a very, very small subset. And, uh, when I, when I talked to such a person, I always congratulate them on the fact that they do it. Um, because I, I personally think it's the only way that you could be really successful at implementing a CRM, making sure that salespeople use it because in the end that's going to be the absolute bottleneck.

[00:26:51] If the sales team doesn't use it, uh, you can, you can pray for having a great forecast. Uh, knowing who they're in touch with, uh, being able to replay someone who left or who was sick, uh, collaborating between the marketing and the sales department in a better way, uh, collaborating within the sales team, even on the customers, this is all going to be impossible because the data you need to do that is not in the system.

[00:27:16] And it depends. Yeah. And so, you know, um, I think I, my guess was right there that, that, that not very many people do include their sales team based on what you're saying. Um, why, why do you think that is? Why do you think so many sales leaders or, or, or CEOs, founders, CRS, whoever it is that is, you know, making the decision on these CRMs aren't including their sales team.

[00:27:38] Like, what are the things that you're hearing? Why are they not. Uh, I think it's one, uh, shortcuts wanting to move faster, uh, thinking that it's been slow down everything and just saying, oh, let's just move ahead. Uh, it might, it might make your selection quicker. Um, but in the end, it's going to take longer until you get the CRM working because the one we choose, uh, as a, as a much higher bowl of fish.

[00:28:05] Um, so I'd say they could take a bit extra time, um, involving the salespeople. Some in some cases it might be cultural as well where the, the head of sales or so is someone who decides everything. Uh, that might be another aspect, but I think in most cases, it's the first thing. Got it. Okay. All right. So, so talk us through what's what's step three.

[00:28:27] Yeah, three. Uh, and also, uh, it's going to see obviously, But step three, when you train yourself in training already, this is good. And many companies just throw them in and say, Um, the bit more systematic companies will train their sales team on, uh, how the CRM works, which is nice. That's definitely the basics because if your salespeople know all the features, how they work, uh, they can get the most out of it.

[00:29:00] But what almost all companies forget is to discuss within their team, how they're going to use it together. Uh, and that is pretty essential because, uh, CRM, uh, can be used in many different ways. Uh, you can, for instance, uh, interprets the stages in the pipeline in different ways you can fill in the fields in different ways.

[00:29:23] Um, you can, you can actually, uh, for instance, you can, you can put notes, uh, in this place or in that place. And if, if. If you don't agree together on how you're going to do this kind of things, then a lot of things become impossible. First of all, the sort of communication aspect of the thing comes very fuzzy because everybody has their, uh, it gives a different meaning to everything.

[00:29:50] Uh, getting insights from the data is super difficult. Pulling a list, uh, of, of, of contacts who this and that is also super difficult because all that information might be, might have different forms. Uh, so it's, it's a really simple thing and it doesn't take more than, uh, an hour, maybe two hours of discussion, uh, which you write down in a, in a document.

[00:30:16] Uh, but once you have these guidelines, you will be so much more successful at using the serum as a theme. And then if you just train your sales people, okay. This is what it does. Cool. Yeah. I mean, even just, you know, so I mean, what I hear you're saying is like, it seems like such a simple thing, like be collaborative in how we're going to, you know, here's how we, here's our options of how to do these different things that we need to do.

[00:30:42] Um, here's, you know, how we, you know, suggest everybody does it and here's how we can better work together, but even just a green on like the knee. Customizations or workflows or automations and things like that, you know, where if a happens, it goes to B and you know, different people might have a little bit of a different idea of how that should work.

[00:31:03] Um, so rather than just trying to, you know, be the type that, you know, Not involving your sales team and making a quick decision and then thinking that, you know, maybe one or two people have all of the answers of here's how, you know, we want people using it and here's how it should work. But being more collaborative in one from the decision-making process through the training of not just the basics, but how they can work together, you know, what things are needed, workflows, automations, customizations, all of that sort of.

[00:31:32] Yeah, exactly. You nailed it. And I guarantee you that it's probably not even 1% of the companies, uh, who do all these things for them. Wow. And, and they seem like such simple concepts, right? Like these are or not, you know, these are not, you know, big lofty ideas. Like th they seem like really simple ABC steps here.

[00:31:56] Um, and it's mind boggling. Why, you know, more sales leaders or, or head of sales are not following these steps when implementing a new tool. And this applies. To anything that they're using in sales CRM, or whatever. Right. Any, any software basically. Um, if they follow these steps probably would have a lot more, you know, user adoption get a better ROI off of the tools.

[00:32:20] Um, all of those things that they're kind of hoping for when, you know, signing up for something like that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It, the collaboration aspect and being more systematic and thoughtful about things you can do makes such a big difference in your success in the end. Yeah, your own. Thanks so much for coming on.

[00:32:38] Really appreciate it. Uh, any final thoughts, uh, do you want to tell the sales hustlers, where they can find out more about you or find out more about sales flair, or anything else that you want? Yeah. So I clear small point about sales where I didn't, I didn't really say what we do. Uh, so we are, uh, be offered sales, CRM, uh, to small and medium sized businesses.

[00:33:01] Who sell B2B that's mostly used for following up leads. That's a, if I asked most of my customers, well, what do you do with Salesforce? They say before, Burley's better. Uh, it's mostly, uh, agencies on our software, like marketing agencies and software development companies, and also tech startups, which involve a lot of SAS companies, um, all over the world and what our system does different from, uh, HubSpot for instance, is that it's, it's built from the ground up to be an automated system, uh, that then still allows manual data and stuff.

[00:33:36] It's very easy to use. Um, which makes that it's it's it's it's I think if you go look on sheet two, we have the highest ROI of almost 656. Uh, there, if you want to be more about that sales is the right place. There is F E R E. Um, you can even try the software without, uh, creating an account. If you just try it free or something when it says, and if you want to get in touch with me, um, LinkedIn is the best place.

[00:34:07] Uh, you just type my name in there. There's only one person with my exact name. Uh, you can send me a connection request, but don't forget the personal message. Uh, but the amount of spam, I'm sure you've all got everything. I personally ignore every message that doesn't have a personal message attached, but if you, if you write a personal message, also be connected with you and we can have.

[00:34:31] Awesome. Thanks so much again for coming on. We'll include those links there in the show notes for you, sales hustlers. Uh, and if you enjoyed today's episode, please, please write us a review, share the show with your friends and as always we're listening for. Well, your feedback, thank you for tuning in to this episode of sales hustle.

[00:34:49] Are you a sales professional? Looking to take your sales career to the next level. If the answer is yes, then I want you to go over to sales,, check us out. And if you feel that you are ready, set up a time to talk with me and my co-founder Chris, I'm your host collum Mitchell. And if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to leave us a review, share the podcast with your friends.