Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
May 27, 2022

#317 S2 Episode 186 - OUTSTAND AND OUTLAST OUTSIDE: Surviving Outside Sales with Mike O’Kelly

In this latest edition of Sales Transformation, Collin Mitchell will be talking outside sales with expert survivor Mike O’Kelly, whose experience of around 20 years in enterprise and pharma sales has given him the tenacity to survive and outlast everyone else in the business. Mike will be sharing his personal experience and will be explaining why it is very important to invest in training your people over and over for better survival.

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HIGHLIGHTS

Mike's sales story
Mike's sales training
Outside sales experience
Invest in training and re-education

QUOTES

Mike: “I know how to create solutions for people. And that's really what I think sales is. It's finding solutions to people's problems and doing it in an efficient manner that gives them the most value for their dollar.

Mike: “I'm very passionate about outside sales. I love it. I think it's fantastic, and I think there's a cancer, where people are giving up on sales too quickly.”

Mike: “It's all about the process. says after the initial training, because initial training is kind of a roadmap, but guess what, once you get to a certain destination, you need another map.”

Mike: “I think individuals should invest at least 3% to 10% of their annual income in re-education.”

Connect with Mike and find out more about him in the links below:

Mike’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-o-kelly-44ba352b/
RithmAI LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rithm-ai/
RithmAI Website: https://www.rithmai.com/
Surviving Outside Sales Podcast: https://pod.link/1582694946

Connect With Collin on LinkedIn

Want to Start, Grow or Monetize Your Podcast? Book a Free Strategy Call HERE!


In this latest edition of Sales Transformation, Collin Mitchell will be talking outside sales with expert survivor Mike O’Kelly, whose experience of around 20 years in enterprise and pharma sales has given him the tenacity to survive and outlast everyone else in the business. Mike will be sharing his personal experience and will be explaining why it is very important to invest in training your people over and over for better survival.

Join Our Free Podcast Community HERE!

Want to solve a leaky sales funnel? Get Signup for your Free RevenueGrid trial HERE! 

Want Your Reps Hitting Quota in 2022? Get Your Wingman Free Trial HERE!

HIGHLIGHTS

  • Mike's sales story
  • Mike's sales training
  • Outside sales experience
  • Invest in training and re-education

QUOTES

Mike: “I know how to create solutions for people. And that's really what I think sales is. It's finding solutions to people's problems and doing it in an efficient manner that gives them the most value for their dollar.

Mike: “I'm very passionate about outside sales. I love it. I think it's fantastic, and I think there's a cancer, where people are giving up on sales too quickly.”

Mike: “It's all about the process. says after the initial training, because initial training is kind of a roadmap, but guess what, once you get to a certain destination, you need another map.”

Mike: “I think individuals should invest at least 3% to 10% of their annual income in re-education.”

Connect with Mike and find out more about him in the links below:

Connect With Collin on LinkedIn 

Want to Start, Grow or Monetize Your Podcast? Book a Free Strategy Call HERE!

Looking to start your own Podcats? Book a FREE strategy call. 🚀

Transcript

[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell. And this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:29] Hey, before we start today's episode, I wanted to bring you in on the best kept secret in B2B sales. If you're serious about social selling and your only strategy is cold DMS through LinkedIn, you're missing the mark big time. Learn how I fully manage revenue generating podcasts can change your life and your pipeline@salescast.com.

[00:00:55] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. I'm excited today to have Mike Kelley on, uh, he's a career sales pro 20 years, mostly in pharmaceutical medical devices and capital equipment. He's the co-founder of a sales tech company and started an outside sales podcast, ex athlete, who is extremely competitive and is always searching for the best solution to any problem.

[00:01:21] Mike, welcome to the. Thank you Colin. I really do appreciate it. Very excited to be here, especially chopping it up with such a seasoned professional podcast or like yourself. Oh man. I'm really not a pro don't be fooled. Well, 300, 300 episodes. We just hit 30. Um, I, uh, I hope I can get up to that 300 mark. So yeah.

[00:01:40] You know, and I'll just take a quick moment at moment to even just mention this. I hate saying it, but, um, my co-founder Chris, he just ordered me a nice little gift. That's going to be on my wall soon back to here. Uh, cause we just crossed a million downloads. So thank you to our listeners. We appreciate it.

[00:01:57] Uh, we appreciate the reviews and the feedback and sharing the show. Um, and it really helps when we have awesome guests. Like you, Mike, that keep coming back. Um, so let's just dig into your sales story a little bit, and then we, you know, we kind of planned out a topic that we're going to riff on and we'll probably talk about that and much more, and some of the exciting things that you're working on, but where did your sales journey.

[00:02:20] Uh, it kind of began, um, I kind of fell backwards into it and I know that's what everybody says about sales because very few people go to college for sales and I'm one of those people. I was an athlete, my entire life. I played baseball. I did play some football. That's the first thing. I'm six, four, about 260 pounds.

[00:02:35] And everybody thinks that I was this long-term football player, but, um, I wasn't, it was baseball was my passion and my love, I got to go to college and then I played minor league baseball and the Atlanta Braves organization, uh, very. But, um, I got a cup of coffee and professional baseball, and I really didn't know what I wanted to do with my life outside of that.

[00:02:54] Everything had been geared towards it. My dad was in sales, he was in pharmaceutical sales for 30 years and I asked him, should I go into pharmaceutical sales? And he basically said, absolutely not. And, uh, so I didn't initially I tried to look for jobs and this was around 2000 or so, and I really still didn't know what I wanted to do.

[00:03:13] But in the off seasons of baseball, you know, minor league seasons, you only get paid for, uh, when you're playing, you don't get paid year round. And so I had to find a job. So I just got a bartending job. And up until that point, I really didn't have a lot of interaction with the general. I've been on baseball fields and, you know, I had fans, I interacted with fans, but I didn't interact with the general public.

[00:03:35] And so I kinda started getting into my groove bartending and just being forced. It was forced interactions. And I think that was important for me because I had to pull myself out of being quote, unquote, the star on the field. And people, you know, loving you, dawning you to serving someone, you know, somebody comes up to a bar, they don't care who you are.

[00:03:54] They're like, Hey, I want X or Y. And so, you know, you do, they've maybe had a couple, right? Exactly. Hey, I can share some I'm over here, my drink, I can share some stories, but I think it's got to be at a different podcast. Uh, you know, um, but, but I think that really. I started feeling like, okay, I, I think I can do this.

[00:04:16] I can hold my own. And I know how to, uh, create solutions for people. And that's really what I think sales is. It's finding solutions to people's problems and doing it in an efficient manner that gives them the most value for their dollar. And so I started to think, okay, well maybe I'll get into sales.

[00:04:33] And my dad and my personality are not the same. And so people think, oh, you're just a chip off the old block. My dad is a very introspective kind of. Calm demeanor. I'm very boisterous. You know, a lot of hand movements, um, loud voice, you know, like I said, I'm six, four. I, I stick out in a room. And so, uh, we kind of approach things differently too, but I really start thinking about sales.

[00:04:57] And then of course it is the how to get into sales. And every head hunter told me, you got to go to a training company. And so enterprise Rent-A-Car is hiring. So I went to enterprise and I had four great years. And then moved on to pharmaceuticals. And the joke in enterprise is that it's kind of the minor leagues for the pharmaceutical and medical space because managers will pluck people out all the time.

[00:05:23] And so I heard this story before, you know, that enterprise has just a phenomenal training program for, you know, people who are trying to get started in sales. What was your experience? It was exactly like you said, because they don't just teach you how to do the simple transaction. They teach you the entire backend of the business, the ripple effect from what you just did with that one customer, how that affects the bottom line going forward.

[00:05:50] And then when you stack those decisions, what it does to profitability. And so it's, there's no, uh, segmenting of work for the employees. It is. If you're in with enterprise, Guess what you're gonna learn everything. And you're gonna know everything that the branch manager is doing. You're going to see how the profitability, in fact, you could just pull it up on the computer.

[00:06:11] You can pull up the lot of the reports, even as a new employee on the computer, and you can look and ask questions about the accounting, et cetera. It's so different, really most environments. Exactly. So you, so from a very young age, I started to understand that. The backend of the business. And so I understood my effect today, the ripple effect, as I mentioned.

[00:06:33] And so it kind of formed that macro view. And I have a macro view of sales. And so I don't know if that was necessarily a great thing or a bad thing in pharmaceuticals because in pharmaceutical sales, it's very quick transactions. It is 30 seconds in the hall. It is, you got to catch them pretty quick.

[00:06:50] And that's not the style that I'm accustomed to. I like to, uh, tell a story or I like to tell an anecdote. I like to compare to something I heard. And I like to ask questions that take more than 15, 20 seconds to answer. And so. Um, but, but the training you get there is very similar to like ADP payroll, copier sales, those companies invest weeks and months and sometimes years and constantly training and retraining and reeducating their employees.

[00:07:17] It's not, you did two weeks at the beginning of. Push you out. And if you've been with the company for four years, you never had any more retraining. And a lot of the companies that I worked for in the medical and pharmaceutical space, that was the case, which was one of the reasons why I'm kind of to UTS that earlier.

[00:07:32] One of the passions that I have is helping out, especially outside sales professionals, have the tools and the training and the expertise and insight they need in order to be as successful as. That they may or may not be getting right now from their company. They may have to augment it with somebody outside of their organization.

[00:07:52] And so, um, The last 10, 15 years in, uh, uh, pharmaceutical and medical and behind the scenes, we were coming up with the idea with rhythm. We were actually searching for a sales optimization tool because we just thought to ourselves, me and my partners, there has to be a better way. There has to be a way where we can take and I'll tell you what rhythm does real quick.

[00:08:15] So basically what it does, it helps you prospect target and route your day as an outside sales rep. So you put in all of your clients, you're going to see you rank them on importance. You rank them where they are on the pipeline, and then you put in the most efficient time to see them. And then what rhythm does is it pops out a 13 week schedule on when you should call them and how.

[00:08:36] Yeah. Wow. That's yeah. I mean, yeah. It's so it's really taking the guesswork out of efficiency and planning and outside sales. And so we kind of got along to the point where I just thought to myself, right, we're going to, I'm going to make the leap and I'm going to go all in with. And, uh, working through rhythm, um, we're, we're gaining customers.

[00:08:57] And, um, I think we just got another company on board. Uh, this week we got a verbal commitment and anybody who sells SAS knows that, you know, the verbal commitment is, uh, we all got some of those buddy. Exactly. But, uh, but you know, we have strong relationships at that company. So I think it's going to go through, um, But yeah, so 20 years in sales and really, um, I, I'm very passionate about outside sales.

[00:09:23] I love it. I think it's fantastic. And I think that, um, I think, you know, as we mentioned kind of, uh, before the, before the show, I think there's a cancer and I think that cancer is people are giving up on sales too quickly because. There's not much, there's not as much invested in them. And, um, I think the training can be much stronger and much better for those topics and stories between the lines.

[00:09:49] Um, not just how to close better because there's a million million videos on those. Right. So, and so your, most of your experience has been in outside sales, right? And so do you think that this. You know, I mean, there's, there's there's problems with sales training outside sales, inside sales doesn't matter.

[00:10:12] A lot of the training is built around knowing the product inside and out and, you know, uh, things of that nature or the training. In the beginning and not ongoing. Um, you know, maybe there's an occasional, Hey, we bring somebody in or have a sales kickoff and bring some cool speaker. Um, but so if, if we take this idea, That you know, and not everybody, there's definitely organizations that are an exception to this rule, of course.

[00:10:43] Um, but there's still a big portion of companies where you're saying sales training is broken. And I agree with that. So how do we fix. What's the solution like, you know, outside of, you know, there's two parts of this, right? What, what a sales leadership need to be doing to fix this problem. But then also as a seller, I'm a seller and I'm not getting the resources that I need.

[00:11:05] It's my responsibility to go get them and not rely on just the resources that are given to me. Um, because my personal and professional development. I own that nobody else. So I'm gonna answer your, your second part first, and that is the individual development. I think I didn't realize this until later that companies are not going to hold your hand.

[00:11:27] And I kind of was thinking that every company acted like enterprise. And then I realized how special that training was. And I have friends that come from the ADP and the Xeroxes, and they all got the same type of training. And you realize. It's almost like there's a B2B training world and then everybody else.

[00:11:44] And so I think it's trying to recreate, so I'll tell you some of the training that was so beneficial. It, wasn't just, here's a bunch of information, but you know, working at enterprise and one of my buddies worked at Xerox and it was the exact same thing. You take a lot of live sales calls, so you get practice, but then you get instant feedback.

[00:12:03] It's not criticism, it's just instant. And I know an outside sales, when your manager rides with you, it always feels like criticism because they're only there they swoop in for like a day and a half or two days, and they only see a handful of small sliver of what's happening. And then they write up a report and they can never give you a glowing report because they say.

[00:12:22] Well, you have to always have something to do better. Come on, man. Like, that's bullshit. Like I crushed it on my, on my two days of calls. You were with me, but because you can't give me perfect five for all of it, you're going to give me a lower, a lower ranking. Like what does that so well for them? Exactly, exactly.

[00:12:41] Cause if, if everybody's doing great, but, but he still is, you know, he's still a four out of five on I know. I know. So that's another thing too. It's about the job security, but. If you're an individual, um, you know, going back, I'm sorry, going back to enterprise. So, uh, and the training was very similar to Xerox to my buddy.

[00:13:00] You know, they gave you mentors, they would assign you a mentor that wasn't kind of a non-negotiable. It was here's your mentor. And then the mentor come and meet me for lunch once a week for the first, I think it was six. And the company would pay for the launch and basically kind of bounce ideas off.

[00:13:15] And it makes you kind of feel like you have a buddy at the company because they're hiring a lot of people fresh out of college, first major sales role. They don't know anything about anything. And it's kind of like deer in headlights. You walk into a branch and all of a sudden people are flooding. I mean, it's very busy.

[00:13:29] In fact, I think, I can't remember what the statistic was, but in my last branch I was managing, um, I mean the phone was ringing probably six to seven times. And we had, we had a, you know, eight phones and the phone was just constantly ringing off the hook. Uh, and I, you know, you joke with a lot of people from enterprise and they say, um, people have PTSD when they hear the phone ring, because it was just non-stop every day for, you know, we get there at seven o'clock in the morning and you leave at 6, 6 30 at night.

[00:13:56] So you work hard, you're washing cars, it's a lot of grunt work and, you know, so you kind of build up that grit and that toughness, but it's the same thing with the other, the other. You know, B2B, you build up that toughness, but they gave us mentors. There was ongoing training where they pull you out of the field after a certain number of time, you knew exactly when it was, and it did not matter what was happening.

[00:14:20] They viewed your training as being more important than what was happening at the branch. So the branch could be on fire. Nope. It's Mike Day Mike's day to be at the corporate office to do. And I know that I've had a lot of training sessions in the pharmaceutical medical space where, oh, you know what, I got this fire, I got to put out, I'm going to have to skip your ride along and I'll catch you in three months.

[00:14:41] Yeah. Okay. Cool man. Or even worse as like, ah, you know, Mike's really crushing it. Do we want to take them out of the office for half? Exactly. Exactly. And I think so there's a short-sightedness of management and I've actually had a conference. I've had start conversation with the CEO of a company that I was helping do some process with.

[00:15:02] And I just told him, I said, your process is all messed up. And it kind of looked at me like nobody had ever said anything to him like that before. And he goes, well, what are you talking about? I said, you're not training your people the right way. You're training them on their technical competence. Anybody can sell your way.

[00:15:16] You know, I won't say what product, I won't say what product it is. Cause he's going to know exactly which, which, uh, you know, it's a very specific type of industry he's gonna, if he's listening, uh, you know, he, he, people want to do business with people who are going to challenge their thinking. Like. You know, if you're going to pay somebody, you know, to provide a service specifically around coaching consulting, training for your, you know, sales team, you should tell them that you should want them to tell you the things that nobody else is going to tell you.

[00:15:51] I agree. You know, it's all about the process after the initial training, because the initial training is kind of a roadmap, but guess what? Once you get to a certain destination, you need another map. And that's where I think a lot of the sales organizations and I I've, I have a big network of outside sales professionals.

[00:16:10] Especially in the medical, uh, the dental eyecare medical pharma, that's kind of the medical pharma I'm talking about. It also includes, you know, diagnostics, machines, hospital reps, and they all say the same thing. It's always, they get to a certain point and then they get stuck and it could be, they get stuck because they don't know how to handle a certain roadblock, like an administrator needing a sign off.

[00:16:32] Well, how do I do that? And because the con the incentives and the quotas are so high, uh, you know, I can't call another rep across the country and say, Hey, spend a half day in zoom with me. And let's role-play bro. I gotta sell, man. I gotta hit my numbers. And so there's this also this competition between the reps, because everybody wants to be one number one, but nobody wants to help other people elevate their game.

[00:16:58] And so. It's that's why, that's why I call it a cancer is because these organizations believe that they're incentivizing their employees properly and they're giving them the competition. But what it's really doing, it's very cool. And that is it's, it's demoralizing the people that want to learn, want to get better and want to do things the right way.

[00:17:19] And it shortens their career. And it all goes back to, um, I want to keep people in the outside sales world, because I feel like outside sales professionals are needed. I think they help the industry. They help, uh, change people's lives, you know, especially in the medical pharmaceutical space. If I have a product that can literally save somebody's life.

[00:17:39] It's my duty to do the best job that I can to make sure that that physician understands it. And then that person gets that care. And if I haven't done that, it literally could be life altering for not only that person, but their family. And so, um, I don't know where your thoughts are on where you think sales training is.

[00:17:58] I'd love to hear your opinion and thoughts on that. Yeah, I mean, I really, uh, I really liked the way that, um, John. And Jordanna, Zeldin a couple of friends of mine that are there. They've launched something called practice lab where sales reps can practice. Right. Because that's really what's missing in a lot of the training is the ability to do two to practice.

[00:18:25] Right. You played sports, right? You don't show up on game day and hope for the best. And that's what a lot of sales people are doing. They're just showing up, you know, on the, the meeting, the appointment, the presentation, you know, maybe they've done some prep work. Um, but they haven't really practiced it enough.

[00:18:42] The only practice they're getting is in the actual live game. Right? So the ability to practice and sharpen these skills. On a regular basis or, you know, you don't go to the gym in the very beginning and then stop going and think that you're going to stay in shape. It doesn't work that way, you know, and you're practicing at the expense of losing business because you're basically practicing in your real live situations, losing deals and then going, yeah, I really shouldn't have done that.

[00:19:12] Or I could have done that better. Maybe when you're reviewing the, you know, reviewing it, if you even do that. Which is a whole nother topic we could dive into. Oh yeah. Well, I just want to follow up on what you said a hundred percent agree. So I played baseball and what people don't see is I did dry swings.

[00:19:32] I did mirror work. And so if anybody doesn't know what mirror work is, you literally stand in front of a mirror and you hold up a bat and you want to see where your, your, your, your shoulder tilt is, where your hands are. You want to feel comfortable. You look where your feet are. You want to be in your body.

[00:19:46] At all times as a hitter and then you turn to the side and you stare at the mirror like this, and then once you kind of, you kind of get through and you're kind of, you're looking to see what your mechanics look like and where everything is. Then you go to soft top. And then you hit off the tee and then you go to BP in the net, then you go BP on the field.

[00:20:04] So like you mentioned, there's five or six steps that you go through as a, as a hitter in baseball before you even go up to bat. If I just simply went up to bat, I probably would hit maybe a hundred, maybe zero. And that is exactly, I mean, I really haven't thought about it like that, but you just spurred that idea in my head.

[00:20:21] That's exactly what they're doing. Just go out and play and you know, you could, you could get better. But it would take, oh man, it would take thousands and thousands and thousands of calls. And by that point you might be fired because you hadn't made any sales. Yeah. Or just pissed off, stressed out and like given up on sales entirely.

[00:20:42] Which I think happens how many people quit sales jobs, and maybe you might even know specifically outside sales jobs. Cause there's just like the same for me. And it's not that it's not for them. It's just that they haven't been properly set up for success. They haven't had a training program that can actually put them in a place to fall in love with the job.

[00:21:04] Exactly. And it is. It's the short-sightedness. I think that was point number one. Uh, you were talking, you said two points. I think the first one is about the companies. I think it's the short-sightedness of the companies. They're only looking, you know, right down their nose at the, at the quarter. Cause they've made promises.

[00:21:21] Everybody is on the line, VP of sales, uh, you know, to the CEO, if it's a large company, the CEO to the shareholders. And so everybody has promised something. Right. And so they have to deliver. And yet they're not in a position of authority, as far as, you know, the VP of sales, can't go out there and make a bunch of sales.

[00:21:38] So what do they do? They tell their managers more calls. We need more calls. We need more calls. And it filters down to the point where, you know, it's like, oh, you know, so Colin, let me get this straight. I have been making 12 calls a day. And I've been busting my tail, knowing that I get paid large commissions.

[00:21:57] So don't you think I would've made the extra two calls in order to make bigger commissions if I had the opportunity or time during the day. Right. You know, it's just the, this whole, we would get messages all the time. Hey, the new standards, uh, it started with. That's when I started the pharmaceutical rose eight calls a day, and then it creeped up to 10 and then it was 12.

[00:22:16] And when I left, it was almost like, wow, are you really doing enough work? If you don't do 14? And then there's the whole like, Hey, well, you know, that's. Standard. Right. Are you, are you, are you, are you, that's the, are you average? Are you going to be above average? Right. So 12 is the minimum. Are you hitting the minimum or, you know, are you going above and beyond?

[00:22:38] And the problem is people that think that way, think that, say. It's only a numbers game and it's not, there's an art and there's a science to it. And you know, you can play the numbers game and yet you're going to win. You're going to, you know, but your people are going to hate their job, you know, and nobody does their best work when they freaking hate their job.

[00:23:00] Yep. And not, not to mention that. It's what is it costing your company to constantly be turning over a table? Yeah, constantly be rehiring. There's not find eight to 10 strong people in each district. And if for those who are listening, who haven't been an outside sales, usually the companies break down into regions districts.

[00:23:21] So, you know, they kind of split the country in fours. You've got a Northeast, you've got a Southeast, you've got a west, you might have a central, and then you have a north. And then they'll hire a manager over top of that territory. And then they'll have eight to 10 territories find eight to 10, very strong, smart, curious, capable people who you believe are genuine and people will trust and let into their little world.

[00:23:43] So they have an opportunity to sell them and then give them the best training, teach them everything that you know, and get them outside. Help. Hire an outside consultant hire somebody that has a different point of view that might help them. And it might be that one aha moment that clicks because everyone's style is different.

[00:24:03] Everyone's personality is different. And I think individuals should invest at least a three to 10% of their annual income in reeducation. I know that's asking a lot, but if you make, if you make. Uh, six figures. It should be at least a $3,000 to $10,000 a year. So I do the math, right? Yeah. And last year I spent, yeah, go ahead.

[00:24:28] Th th the thing there, right. Is, is that, you know, if. People are forced to do more. I want to touch back on this. Right? Doing more meetings is you're going to rush every meeting. You don't rush every call. Right. Cause you got to get to the next one, you know, and it's, it's a huge problem. And then I love the idea that you've kind of planted here of getting some outside help.

[00:24:55] Right. And the problem, I think in a lot of sales leadership, They, you know, a lot of folks just can't check their ego at the door and it's like, I got to have all the answers. Right? Yep. And it's like, not, everybody's going to sell like Mike and having some different perspectives and investing in that for your people is going to save you.

[00:25:13] It's one it's going to help your company grow. Um, And drive more sales number one. And number two, you're going to keep your employees happier and make sure that the right people are getting what they need by bringing all of these outside resources in. Um, and then that way you don't have this constant turnover and, you know, losing your ass on having to constantly train new people.

[00:25:36] Exactly plus there's no, if you're hiring a team and you want everybody to be at the same pace, like it's a marathon and you don't want to have to rehire somebody at mile one mile, two mile four mile six, and then you have no idea where they are along their journey. Wouldn't it be easier? Like I said, hire eight to 10 people and some people might not work out, but don't rush to cut bait.

[00:26:01] As long as they are willing to work. Now, if they're lazy and they don't want to get off their butt. And that happens in outside sales because you know, your manager's not with you every day, but if they're willing to work, I believe that every single person has the capability of being tremendously successful, given the right tools and given the right training based on their past experiences and their territory specific.

[00:26:22] And also. You know, their personality and how they respond. Some people are very vocal. Some people are very cerebral. It's kind of tapping in, you know, I just interviewed a guy on my podcast, um, named, named, uh, Jason Tormey and he's got a coaching program and he's, uh, he went for back to back to back to back.

[00:26:41] Uh, manager awards. His district was number one for years in a row, which is really hard to do because he said they keep, they keep upping the, um, upping the tally every year and his quota, he said I would do personality tests on my team and I would try to figure out how do they work? How does that little brain, what are the gears that work?

[00:27:03] And I might treat the rep in this city completely different than I treat the rep in this city. My experience. Everybody is painted with the same brush. Yeah, this is how we do things. It's my way or the highway. In fact, I was at a company very briefly and I said, all right, I'm going to take the highway. I found a new job.

[00:27:20] I was like, no, your way is not going to work. And I'm just, I'm not going to do this. And so, you know, as a sales professional, you also have to be willing to know if the company is toxic or the environment is toxic. You got to get. You got, you have to be in it for you. This is your career. Okay. You're not beholden to anyone else.

[00:27:37] And so if you're not getting the training and they're not supporting you, um, I do think you should try to find it on your own, but if they're not supporting you and they're kind of mandating you and putting in this little box, there are plenty of. Companies out there that you can look in multiple industries, don't feel like you're trapped.

[00:27:55] Um, that's one of the things that, you know, we kind of talk about, um, the, the podcast and when we talk to people is you're not trapped. You have options. Uh, you might think you have the blinders on, but widen your gaze. There's a lot of opportunity out there in a lot of different industries. And if you're talented companies would love to hire you and mold you.

[00:28:14] Absolutely Mike, thanks so much for coming on today. It's been a blast. Any final thoughts? Where can people connect and learn more about? So you can absolutely, you can, uh, connect with me on LinkedIn, uh, Miko Kelly. Um, and you can also go to rhythm ai.com. If you want to try out the platform, it's $1 for the first month for outside sales professionals, you can reach out to me, Mike, at rhythm ai.com R I T H.

[00:28:41] Uh, M a i.com. Um, and you can also check out the surviving outside sales podcast, um, on all the major platforms, Spotify and apples, uh, the number two, uh, or the top two. Um, and yeah, you can also reach out to me@mikeatsurvivingoutsidesales.com. I try to make it as easy as possible for people to connect with.

[00:29:01] Awesome. We'll drop all that there in the show notes for you, uh, listeners. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends. It really does help us out to reach more people. Um, and you can always provide feedback over@salestransformation.fm, and we will. Back to you.

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