Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
May 18, 2022

#310 S2 Episode 179 - I CAN SEE CLEARLY NOW! Josh Ruff On Breaking The Mold, Building Clarity, And Serving Others In Sales

Collin Mitchell welcomes Josh Ruff in the latest episode of Sales Transformation! Josh is a Principal Sales Enablement Trainer at Beekeeper, a company that transforms the way frontline businesses work by helping companies ditch paper and manual processes to improve employee engagement, retention, and performance.

Josh will be sharing his sales story, complications caused by insecurity, and owning your success. He will further explain why it is important to have clarity when it comes to accepting the outcome of your sales activity.

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Josh Ruff's sales story
Selling as a performance driven role
How insecurity complicates sales
Owning your success
The need for creativity


Josh: “I'm like most people in sales. I never thought I'd be in sales.”

Collin: “But at the end of the day, like it's still sales, it's a performance driven role. And so but you know, I think there's, there's people that are on kind of opposite sides of the spectrum of what that really means.

Connect with Josh and find out more about her business in the links below:


Connect With Collin on LinkedIn

Want to Start, Grow or Monetize Your Podcast? Book a Free Strategy Call HERE!

Collin Mitchell welcomes Josh Ruff in the latest episode of Sales Transformation! Josh is a Principal Sales Enablement Trainer at Beekeeper, a company that transforms the way frontline businesses work by helping companies ditch paper and manual processes to improve employee engagement, retention, and performance.

Josh will be sharing his sales story, complications caused by insecurity, and owning your success. He will further explain why it is important to have clarity when it comes to accepting the outcome of your sales activity.


Join Our Free Podcast Community HERE!

Want to solve a leaky sales funnel? Get Signup for your Free RevenueGrid trial HERE! 

Want Your Reps Hitting Quota in 2022? Get Your Wingman Free Trial HERE!


  • Josh Ruff's sales story
  • Selling as a performance driven role
  • How insecurity complicates sales
  • Owning your success
  • The need for creativity


Josh: “I'm like most people in sales. I never thought I'd be in sales.”

Collin: “But at the end of the day, like it's still sales, it's a performance driven role. And so but you know, I think there's, there's people that are on kind of opposite sides of the spectrum of what that really means.”

Josh: “If you find someone and they love it, but the timing is not there, or their boards not behind them, or the product just doesn't line up with really what they're trying to accomplish, you've gained clarity, you haven't really lost”

Collin: “The goal is to give the other person a good damn experience, regardless of the outcome.”

Josh: “We need more creativity. We mean no more diverse thought in this industry. Be creative had tried this. What about that? Why haven't we looked at this?”

Connect with Josh and find out more about her business in the links below:

Connect With Collin on LinkedIn 

Want to Start, Grow or Monetize Your Podcast? Book a Free Strategy Call HERE! 

Looking to start your own Podcats? Book a FREE strategy call. 🚀


[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell. And this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:29] Hey, before we start today's episode, I wanted to bring you in on the best kept secret in B2B sales. If you're serious about social selling and your only strategy is cold DMS through LinkedIn, you're missing the mark big time. Learn how I fully manage revenue generating podcasts can change your life and your

[00:00:55] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. Very excited today. I've got Josh Ruff on. He is a, he is over at beekeeper as the principal sales enablement trainer, and a little bit about Josh. His, his sales journey is about breaking the mold, building clarity and serving others. So I know that this is going to be a fantastic episode.

[00:01:20] We've got an interesting topic to dive into. But to kick things off, Josh, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm calling and seeing the guest list. And I'm just a little confused that you found me and got me on here. Some great folks and great episodes, but love it. Yeah. Yes. I'm still a little confused why I'm here sometimes too.

[00:01:42] Let's dive into it. I'm curious. You know, what, what got the conversation started? I know you reached out to me. I'd love to talk a little bit more. What was on your mind? Yeah, I don't know. I think, uh, I think I saw maybe a piece of content you put out and I was like, I'd love to get Josh on the show. Um, so sort of, you know, followed your, your stuff on LinkedIn there.

[00:02:00] And, but before we get into the topic that I know you love talking about, just give us your sales story, a little bit of background, uh, where did things I'll kick off for you? I'm like most people on sales. I never thought I'd be in. Surprise surprise. You have such a unique sales story. There's like everybody else's same story, but in all seriousness, I was going to be a teacher ton of correlation.

[00:02:25] There needed to make money instead. Um, no, not teacher if they do God's work, but you know, it's, let's be real. Um, if you're looking to be paid SAS, I hear does a little bit better than that. So what I did is I went through sales and I, I went the old school way. I mean, I've been on phones, literally cold call.

[00:02:41] Things like, you know, phones back before we had cell phones folks, we had long distance and things like that, that dates things a little bit, but I've gone through all of that grind weather room up, landed in, uh, in insurance role where we were doing more of an outbound motion through a website, you know, kind of an SDR ag type handoff before I need to call it SAS.

[00:03:00] And then pivot fast forward after doing that for a long time, I've made the leap umbrage over to SAS, and that was through pre hired where you were working with 50 to 75 people from all walks of life who are bridging into the SDR role. Um, what I loved about that is it was about finding diverse talent.

[00:03:17] Um, most people in SAS are not as diverse as I'd like to see it. So we were able to take military veterans, stay at home moms, people from all walks of life and just help them figure out what they can. Um, help them short circuit, that journey that took me forever to figure out, um, fast forward to today, two and a half years into that, I was able to land an opportunity with a company called beekeeper and really I'm loving it.

[00:03:39] I'm happy as a pig in mud. What I get to do is work with sales reps, SDRs AEs, north American. Help them skill and level up, but also able to help develop processes. So their data doesn't suck and use not. I see you nodding because you're like, I've been in plenty of roles where our process was painful and we got handed things.

[00:03:57] I'm trying to build that ground up feedback and be able to build systems and processes that are. And work and then also communicate with all the different parts. So, I mean, I get to do everything I love. It really is amazing. So how many people on your team that you're heading that up for? Yeah. Right now we're working about just under 20 reps at this point, cross BDR, a north American AMEA it's around that target.

[00:04:20] And that also means I get to work with the managers as well and help them up level two. Got it. Very cool. All right. So tell me about some of the early days of your, your sales career. So boiler room, you know, making calls, um, what is it, what did you learn early on in sales that still rings true for you?

[00:04:40] Yeah, the two things I would pick out one would be. KPIs, I didn't know to call KPI's, but making the dials, being present is a sales ability. In other words, I told you this, when we were jumping on here today was one of those grinder days where nothing quite clicks. Right. And you're just still going through it and you're still making things happen.

[00:04:56] Those days are there. But then there's days where you show up and you're like every call someone's like, wow. I was just waiting for you to call me. And this sounds so great. And so. I know we laugh, but that kinda does happen some days. You feel like it you're on top of the world, but the problem is if you miss a few days here and there, and I'm not saying hustle culture, I'm not saying that, but I'm seeing, if you can consistently be performing consistently hit your KPIs and hit your numbers, be present, make work a priority in your.

[00:05:21] I have other priorities too, again, saying that clearly that you find that you hit, you know, you never know when you're gonna miss that Midas touch day. First one, you're missed that grinder show for all of them, if you can. Yeah. So that was the first interesting how you, um, you got to sort of, uh, uh, when you talk about KPIs and it can be a sensitive topic these days, right?

[00:05:43] Like it's not like kumbaya and you just, you know, got to show up and you know, not do anything. Like we still have a job. Yeah. We shouldn't be working with. Weekends and dedicating everything that we do to our sales career and tying ourself welders to our number and all of that stuff. But at the end of the day, like it's still sales, it's a performance driven role.

[00:06:02] Um, and so, but you know, I think there's, there's people that are on kind of opposite sides of the spectrum, of what that really means. Yeah. And the other point to that I was going to give it to is really also learned to get told no, a lot. Can you just go through enough reference, you go through enough of this and you realize you're still breathing.

[00:06:19] You still go home, you know, you and I have have kids. So you go home, you hug your kids. That's the best, you know, rejection serum. If you want to call it there, you're like, Hey, at least they mostly hugged me. Most of the time I do have a teenager. So that's I get, I get some objection handling at home in as well, but.

[00:06:35] Yeah. Yeah. I always questioned my sales abilities when Dylan dealing with my children and negotiating around bedtime and vegetables and you know, all the fun stuff. That's, you know, it's a lose, lose most of the time where kids are toddler age and there's, there's no winning. There's no playbook for that.

[00:06:53] I'm sorry. I can't help you with that. I, I stay in my lane. I can help sales reps, crush numbers. I can help them hit activities. Two-year-olds even I don't got it. Yeah. So kind of going back to what you said right. Is, is, is some days, you know, you feel like everything you touch goes, well, every call you have is going good.

[00:07:11] And, and then some days it's just not there. And that's one of the hardest things that I find in sales is like, you can absolutely do everything right. And still lose. Absolutely. And it's really hard for sellers. Make that about them. And it has nothing to do with you. I would reframe the word lose. That's where I'd back up one half step, retrain the word loose, because for example, if you find someone and they love it, but the timing's not there or their board's not behind them or the product just doesn't line up with really what they're trying to accomplish.

[00:07:45] You've gained clarity. You haven't really lost. What you have to realize is if you've got a great product and a great team and a great company behind you, You're going to win 75% of time, 80% of time. Maybe you're never going to win a hundred percent of the time. So you're going to find those ones where it's not the right time.

[00:08:00] You're going to build great relationships. They're going to go to a new company and this has happened many times. Hey, Colin, can't wait to get back to you. I'm at a company now and they totally get it. I love where I'm at. We can't wait to work. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think it's hard for a lot of sales reps to look at that long-term big picture, right?

[00:08:17] Like, you know, I so often, you know, uh, sellers can get really pissy when they don't get their way. Right. Maybe kind of like a two year old and throw a bit of a tantrum, right? Yeah. And your whole energy and way that you interact with that person change and shifts because you know, you already. Planned how you're going to spend the commission check and the deal didn't close.

[00:08:41] Right. And you gotta be in it for the long haul. Right. And, and, and exactly what you said is couple of things, like I always tell people that I work with, like the goal is to give the other person a good damn experience regardless of the outcome. Right? Whether they, whether you win, whether you win the deal.

[00:09:01] When they deal them, for some reason, they then churn cause turn happens. Right. And sometimes it could be nothing to do with you, but the goal is to make sure they have a good experience for that exact reason that you said, right. They might leave, go somewhere else. And then you're the first person they call or better yet just because you don't win their business doesn't mean that they don't know other people that could potentially use.

[00:09:21] Your product or your service, and they're only going to send you referrals. One, if you ask for them, which most people don't and two, if they had a good experience and crew at critical, that good experience, I'm gonna layer one more thing on that. Make it simple. I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that I see reps making is they have to sound super salesy.

[00:09:44] They have to be super expert. They have. 10th degree of everything they do, what actually most customers who I've talked to, who really have great conversations and they go, Hey, you laid it out really simple. You helped us figure out, do we, or don't we need it. And it would made sense to me. My favorite thing to have at the end of any sales conversation is no it's really clear.

[00:10:04] No, I really think I really understand what you're talking about. That's a great moment because. Great. Whether we work together or not, you at least understand what we might do for you, how this might work, where are we going to go from here? Everything. No, one's left wondering what you're trying to accomplish.

[00:10:19] And that's a healthy, healthy, happy place to feel because then winter. You've done your job. Yeah. What, why is it, do you think that reps think they need to overcomplicate things? One word insecurity? Hmm. They're nervous. They don't know if they're going to really be able to, when they're worried about their bills or worried about the outcome, they're worried about the competitor's product that gets in their head.

[00:10:43] Hey, well, they have this bells and whistles or they have this. Do you know who the people are? Do you trust the people in the foxhole with you? The product team. Do you know them at all? Have you talked to things, do you really believe you're helping people? Is your tool something that makes someone's life better if you believe in those things?

[00:10:58] And I know it seems like drink the Kool-Aid type of comment again, but to a degree, there has to be some belief in that you are really generating an outcome. That's going to help others. The example I'll give you this. If you see someone about to trip on their shoelaces, into the street, do you hesitate to grab them?

[00:11:14] No, you reach out and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna get past the awkward norms. I'm not going to care, you know, about anything else, but I'm gonna try and help somebody. It depends on the person though, right? I'm sure you've heard the analogy of, you know, somebody zippers down. Right.

[00:11:28] There's so many people that, you know, would, uh, would rather have, you know, avoid the uncomfortable situation of saying, Hey, Joshua, your fly's down. Then, you know, actually just. That's a fair point. I think it depends on, I guess, the degree of that, but you have to believe you're more towards, I guess, the bus incident than the zipper incident that helps a little bit.

[00:11:47] You seem like you're, I mean, I know you're not talking about this, but we just talked about a case study where a company saved about 250,000 in revenue in six months, hiring people who have beekeeper, like that's sizable money. That's, that's a chunk of cash that somebody is going to miss. And that's, that feels like more than a zipper to me maybe.

[00:12:04] And so I'm reaching out to companies and I'm like, do you realize this isn't just your zippers? This was like, you're not wearing pants, man. Your pants are down and you forgot your box. Yeah. But that's been inspiring you to really want to make a difference and help and find ways to be curious. I'm always curious that puzzle box mentality.

[00:12:22] So I think it comes back to that when you're looking at outreach people that drives you through those grinder days, by the way that why. What are you doing behind this? I know you and I have kids that's going on with hugging him, pick yourself up. But the last thing I'll say is don't identify the best people, whether it's art, sports sales, they identify with their successes, but not with their failures.

[00:12:43] What I mean by that, as they walk back in the next day, they say that guy, the other day, I looked at that course recording, what was he doing? That's not me. I'm not that guy. I'm better than that. Yeah. And when they see something go, well, they actually own their success. They say, Hey, wait. Yeah, I did do. Yeah, I can do this, that deal, that closed.

[00:13:00] I figured out exactly the pain point, the right levers to pitch. I found all the right people to buy into. We built out a process. They're thrilled. We're making money. I did that. The important piece right there that I think a lot of sellers are missing is owning their success. Right. Because they're like, okay, that one's done.

[00:13:17] What's next. Right. And forget to, you know, pat yourself on the back a little bit and celebrate and then go get another one. Right. And even, I personally struggle with that sometimes. Right. Hey, got to, you know, got to the goalpost now let's move it. Another 20 yards get to the next one, my own goalpost. I appreciate that.

[00:13:35] I feel you call them, but I was gonna say it drives back to insecurity because if you're identifying with your success, That can keep that, you know, sense of not belonging, you know, that imposter syndrome that so many of us fight against and push against. No, I am that I am that person. I can be that we're all humans.

[00:13:52] Yeah. It helps you have that down. And it also keeps you getting to that negative spiral of being down on yourself and going down was, I've seen so many. Fall into, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of doom, which nobody wants. Yeah. And then talk to me a little bit about the failures, right? So we're talking about owning the success.

[00:14:09] Well, what about the grinder days? You know, you look for wins, you look and say, Hey, you know what I showed up, Hey, you know what? And it's usually in our heads, we think we're maybe at a level of a three that day we're like, and most people, if you asked them, Hey, how is it doing. What scent was off, you were off.

[00:14:25] We often will be like, oh my gosh, that call, I sounded like such a goober. What did I just do? And that's fine. They booked the next meeting. They get back to you. Or if you really did flip something up, you know, I've done this with a lot of people, Hey, I'll write an email. Hey, I was up last night and in my head I could not sleep because I did not ask this relevant question that I really needed.

[00:14:46] Hope it doesn't sound dumb. So-and-so but like, I can't go to the next step without knowing nailing this down. Can you just let me know what I know? Um, I love, I love the way that you like that teed that up because so many people can relate to that, right? Like to them, it's probably no big deal. This silly little question that you're asking.

[00:15:09] Right. And they're like, oh man, I've totally been there. Let me, let me help them out. Right. I mean, so many people understand. That. And it's just being a freaking human, like you don't have to be all buttoned up and perfect, you know, in sales, just be yourself and be real. There's a universal truth behind that too.

[00:15:28] And we can get to the psychology that some other time, but it's, and it's not manipulative, but when you're humbling yourself, people try to pick you up. And when you show up arrogant, people tend to put. Um, and so if you leverage that and use that, I mean, not manipulate, but it's really just saying, Hey, you know what, I'll be vulnerable a little bit.

[00:15:43] I'll be real with you. You know what, Hey, and so how's it going? Yeah, it's going great. Or I can say, Hey earlier. I said, you know what, actually, today I felt like I was just kicking myself in the shins half the time I've been there. We've all been there and you go, yeah, that's great. We'll figure this out.

[00:15:55] What can we learn from. Was your words, I think, which I love. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I think that's kind of a way to re frame it, right. Is don't look at them as losses or failures. They're opportunities, opportunities to grow opportunities, to learn opportunities, to be like, Hey, actually it wasn't that bad.

[00:16:14] You know, it was just being hard on myself. You know, and we had a role-play collar in the day with the team, we're working with them, practicing them. And I was just doing some of the winning that design work that we're doing right now. And I last minute, I'm like, here, I'll jump on. When I started stumbling over things and then I'm in my head, I'm like, oh great.

[00:16:28] I'm supposed to be the genius expert, which I'm not, but you know, I'm supposed to be the one doing this now I'm stumbling. I was like, well, Hey look, everyone real human here. We all have moments like that where you're like, what just happen? I can knock that out of the park nine times out of 10 and 900 batting average has fantastic.

[00:16:44] So I can get upset about the one time out of 10, or I can go back and remind myself of the nine times of 10, who I really am killing the insecurity, cutting out the imposter syndrome and just owning that you can do that. Yeah. So let's, let's transition a bit, you know, you've done a lot of work of, you know, helping SDRs and BDRs, you know, sort of break into SAS, um, from diverse backgrounds and things like that.

[00:17:09] And, um, you've done a lot of work with them, so I'm just curious, you know, sort of what you've seen and let's kind of dig in and into that a little bit. I think the biggest piece of that is that people belong in diverse talent, belongs in SAS. You take people who are military veterans. You know, getting people from all blacks also let's say women, but they get quoted at a better rate than men.

[00:17:31] That is a fact. That's not an opinion. That's not me trying to go out on a limb. The reality is that how do we enable and support those people to really thrive and belong creating? That's not just buzzwordy and it's not just for a specific week or a month. It needs to be an ongoing cycle of making sure they can step in, because what often happens, I see this people from diverse backgrounds step in, and the message they often get is act like all of the non-diverse talent fit into this mold fitness.

[00:17:58] Um, and that's crushing because really we need more creativity. We mean more diverse thought in this industry, be creative. Hey, I tried this. What about that? Why haven't we looked at this? Everyone I think has their own sales superpower column. So I'm purchasing on the spot. I'm curious. I love asking this of everyone.

[00:18:16] What would you say is your sales superstar? Oh, dude, I love the challenging deals. I like a challenge. I mean, I've, I'm an entrepreneur, but I'm really a sales person at heart. Um, I've founded four companies now, um, because I like to just. Something from nothing. And I like the challenging deals where it's like not the typical mold of just like really complex, like how do we get this to make sense and work.

[00:18:43] And, um, that, that's what I love most. And I just really genuinely loved building relationships with folks, honestly. So I would I try and make you do a sales deal like anybody else? I mean, I know there are certain structures and patterns you need, but I'm going to work with Colin. He's build. He says, Sufis looking at the Boulder, saying, I'm going to push this up the hill one more time.

[00:19:00] I know how to get to the top of the mountain and then go back and try again. I'm not scared of that journey in that battle. I'm going to work with that. I'm going to build with that. So those are things that when you talk about, but everyone else is doing something unique to the table. I've got a dad vibe.

[00:19:12] I'm going to rock that. I'm going to be my. That's what's powerful. Faking it, wears you out, burns you out and it's really not effective to be honest. Yeah, yeah. Or else, I mean, for me, like if it's, if there's no challenge, I get bored. Right. And nobody does their best work when they're bored. And I see this with outreach to people.

[00:19:33] We'll try and. Somebody else to get outreach. I'm like, Hey, you know, I'm not going to run. I can not run. We're not going to triathletes together. I do love that you love books and you like this author. We can talk about this. I'll tell you who I am. I'll tell you who I'm not. And people aren't just looking for mimics and clones.

[00:19:49] They're looking for other real humans. Take the answer with the calmer, just like this chat. I'm having a great time. Getting to know Collin Collins. This is real. This is fun. Yeah. Yeah. So, and, and I think it to kind of bring that back to something you mentioned, right. Is so people try to show up as somebody else in their outreach and what you mentioned earlier, which is so true.

[00:20:11] And I think it's an important point to just bring up again, is it's exhausting. Trying to be somebody else. It's hard work, you know, it's so much easier when you can just like, Hey, I can actually just, and, and you know what, showing up as you are, who you are as your authentic self, you're not going to be the right fit for everyone.

[00:20:29] And that's okay. You don't need to be wait to read my mind. Call on impressive. Uh, telepathy came right through there. I was just thinking you're not for everyone. And that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the next thing that I really wanted to talk about is you, you, you brought up before we started recording, right.

[00:20:50] Was, you know, a topic that we could, we could riff on and it had something to do with, you know, how sort of the SDR BDRs are viewed and, um, treated, I guess, suppose. So I'd love to touch on that and get your. Yeah, I think we connected with my post where I said every job has a sales job. And I think that what that means to me is the end of the day.

[00:21:11] If you're a CEO, you're still trying to buy, buy in from your reps. You're still trying to follow a sales process in sales enablement. When I was going through my career search, all of the things I've done, I'm just doing the same discovery. I'm doing the same demo. I'm doing the same approach. I'm taking notes.

[00:21:26] I'm, uh, I'm repeating, mirroring everything you do as a BDR SDR, same thing I'm doing in my role now. There's no difference. So what I would say when you kind of come back to, you know, what does that look like? What am I passionate about? It's SDRs being elevated. In other words, they're not just a subservient role to AEs.

[00:21:45] I want to see them. Get the credit they deserve and also be then enabled to grow their career. Um, what I mean by that is Sam Nelson. I think ran a poll, said, Hey, um, over at outreach, he goes, what percent of your best AEs where your BDRs first 90% of their people put their hand up and said, oh yeah. And when I bring this up with every sales leader I talked to you're smiling.

[00:22:03] I see that every sales leader I talked to goes, oh yeah, there's so-and-so and there's so-and-so and they're so they can start just naming people. Who've made that pivot and been rock stars. Yeah. But then when you say, Hey, let's take the data on a random, whole. Hey, do BDRs and SDRs, get the training. They need to make that leap at your company.

[00:22:21] 25%. Yeah, kinda. Hmm. So what, what's this big gap? What that means is that teams are just too overwhelmed to really do it well. And so STRs are trying to try and figure out that next step, jump to another company and hope they're ready. Fail. Come back to being an SDR. Get out of SAS entirely cause they're burning.

[00:22:41] Um, we just need a bridge there. We need someone who's doing that. I'm fortunate that the company I'm working at beekeepers invested in having me, they brought in a Josh. Anyone can step into this role if they're focused on that growth. No, that journey help build that skillset for the next level and help walk them through.

[00:22:57] Most companies are just, I think, late to the game and figuring this out, which is painful with COVID with remote work that becoming the norm, people are isolated. They don't have this coaching they don't have is helping. I think we're, if you didn't care about people at your company, just set this aside, kick on, you do not care about people at your company, how they lived, how healthy they were, how they worked.

[00:23:18] If you only cared about cold, hard cash, you would figure this out. Because if you take that 25%, move that up to 50 or 75%, make it to AA. We've already said, these are your best talent. These are the best people that you're finding and making that bridge. You'd find a way to fix that door. Um, but if you also happened to care about the people you're trying to bring in building a healthy culture from the ground up in a diverse team, well, that also fits as well.

[00:23:42] So it's a good argument. If you're a good person or even if you're not a great person, I like to be, it works both ways. Right? So, and so what you're talking about is really just investing in these individuals to level up, right. And not just because majority of the training and resources and things that they get with.

[00:24:00] What you're saying is pretty limited anyway, is around just them being better at that current role. Like, Hey, here's how to do better emails and master the cold call and, you know, uh, qualify deals better or whatever the case is. There's not a lot of resources of like, Here's the next step for you and let's invest in you as the person and, you know, see what's next for you.

[00:24:21] And there's also the big assumption that like every SDR wants to become an a and that's not necessarily true. I think it's healthy to see them become CS reps, to become, you know, account managers, to become other, you know, this was a great way to test talent, bring it into your company, grow. It doesn't have to be the AED path, but a lot of people don't even know what that path looks like, but I think the other pervasive problem in SAS, I'm going to call it out right now.

[00:24:43] It's a lot of companies just expect their employees to figure it out on their own. Hey, Colin love that. You're working hard for my team. You're working in and you're 40, 50 hours a week. You're crushing it. You're getting your KPIs and you're getting your numbers. Now go spend extra time on your own. Go spend your ma maybe I'll give you a small tummy budget.

[00:24:58] I'll give you a little bit of something you're going to be required to go. We'll figure out where to get better and how to get yourself promoted. That's on you. They don't see it that way, but they don't not say it that way. And that's, that's the most disappointing. I won't call that. Yeah. I mean, it's, uh, it's something that I think people need to hear and sort of wake up to that, you know, um, we could be doing more, we could be doing a better job of investing in our people and you know, not just treating them as another person that, you know, drives revenue for the company.

[00:25:30] To be fair too, though, I'm not going to blame frontline leaders. SDR managers tend not to be the ones at fault because what happens is Colin. You're an SDR manager. I'm going to give you nine, 12 reps demands. Yeah, make sure you're investing in all of them adequately getting them good. One V ones, helping them level up in their career and make sure they're healthy in their life.

[00:25:48] How's Colin feeling right now, little overwhelmed. That's not happening. You also got to these meetings, you have to run this objectives. You got to write this sequencing and I need you to do take care of this as well. Columns go going. I can't do it all. So what's the first thing that doesn't get done.

[00:26:05] Bingo. So, and so I, when I say that it's falling to the reps to get the help because they don't get the bandwidth and support. And a lot of that comes from the top, top down leadership. I'm going to pitch that call out it probably above that level. Just to be fair. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Josh, it's been fun having you on this was a, this was a bit of a blast and really enjoyed these topics.

[00:26:27] Um, any final thoughts? Where can people connect? Duke. And that could be on LinkedIn. I love having conversations. One bonus Adam, to throw in for your listeners, find a micro-community, don't make it. Your team at work work can be quote unquote family. I don't love that term. Honestly. I want to kill it with fire.

[00:26:44] A lot of times love the people you work with. Trust them. They're not your family necessarily. That brings a lot of connotation, but finding. People at column that you have a network with, that you get to know that are outside of that sphere. So if you ever changed jobs or changed companies, you don't lose your whole network.

[00:26:59] Um, so find that. So I'm happy to be part of your community. Dial me up on LinkedIn, say, Hey Josh, what's up? You ever have a question? Ping it off of me. I love conversations. Um, so I'm there on LinkedIn. Um, you can also find me on the beekeeper. If you're looking by the way, we're looking for AEs AMS. And, uh, we're, you know, if you want someone to work with you, Hey, let me know.

[00:27:17] We're trying to build that kind of culture here. So we'll throw out that free plug. Um, but get the conversation started, find your people and if I'm not the right people for you, I'm okay with that, by the way. Absolutely. Thanks. Again. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends.

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