Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Feb. 4, 2022

#240 S2 Episode 109 - How To Succeed In Sales And Leadership with Jonathan Goldhill

In this episode of the Sales Transformation Collin podcast, Collin Mitchell talks to Jonathan Goldhill, family business coach and president of the Goldhill Group. Jonathan’s career in sales began as a fundraiser for nonprofits, where he was functionally a door-to-door salesman peddling intangibles. Nowadays, he coaches family businesses that want to scale up to medium-sized corporations.

Jonathan’s years of experience have taught him several lessons that are still useful and relevant to younger generations of sellers, particularly in dealing with rejection. He also gives advice on playing at your strengths, and why specialized roles are the best way to leverage sales teams.


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HIGHLIGHTS

  • If you can sell intangibles, you can sell anything 
  • All sellers need to learn how to deal with failure
  • Embrace the mindset that works best for you 
  • People buy for their own reason and their own timeline, not yours 
  • Always ask for feedback from the sales deals that failed
  • Understand your personality type to do sell better
  • Sales and marketing jobs are not meant to be handled by one person
  • Customer profiles should go beyond the demographics

QUOTES

Jonathan: "Selling consulting services was pretty much selling intangibles. I think if you can sell yourself and sell intangibles, you can probably sell anything."

Jonathan: "Failure is just feedback. If you personalize it, then it's not gonna go well. You need to sort of depersonalize it. You need to make yourself a little bit more immune or numb to that rejection." 

Collin: "A common thread with salespeople who do or don't make it, or entrepreneurs that tend to fail is that they take it just too darn personal. And it actually has nothing to do with them. Sometimes people don't buy just because it's actually just not a good fit. It has absolutely nothing to do with you." 

Jonathan: "Some people are real natural or their great business developers, but they stink at account management. And so if you're getting a side hustle or applying for a sales job, understand your personality type. And which one are you? Are you the hunter or are you the farmer who tills the soil of your existing crops?" 

Jonathan: "Entrepreneurs need to have a vision about how to build and scale, and that requires leveraging other people. So I help coach them on how to become a more effective leader in that situation. Because leadership is about creating followership, it's about getting results done through other people."

Learn more about Jonathan in the links below:

  • LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thegoldhillgroup/
  • Website - https://www.thegoldhillgroup.com/

Learn more about Collin in the link below: 

Also, you can join our community by checking out @salescast.community. If you're a sales professional looking to take your career to greater heights, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a call with Collin and Chris.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell, and this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:24] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. I'm very excited for today's guest. I've got Jonathan Goldhill. He's the president of the gold hell group. Uh, he's a business coach that, uh, closely works with family, run businesses and implements, proven best practices to make companies more profitable, more efficient, and more enjoyable to own.

[00:00:45] Uh, he specializes in helping companies scale up and that's what we're going to talk about today. Welcome to the show. Thanks Colin. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Uh, this has been a long time coming. I don't know. At some point I was like, man, you never been on. Yeah, well, you know, uh, everything starts when someone sells something and, uh, um, I don't know, in this case it was an easy sale and maybe we pushed it off.

[00:01:11] Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Um, well take us back kind of, where did your professional journey start? Um, and you know, how, you know, what part of sales or selling is part of your story? Yeah, so, you know, my professional journey started, it was a pretty scrappy beginning. In my twenties. Um, I jumped around a lot.

[00:01:32] Colin. I was selling, uh, all sorts of things related to in the beginning. Uh, I had a really big ideological or idealistic, sorry, uh, perspective. So I was involved in a lot of community. Based non-profits grassroots organization. So, um, in my early years in college, and right after I was actually knocking on doors, trying to sell people on making a contribution to some kind of a cause a grassroots campaign, never a politician, but always something.

[00:02:05] That was changing the world. And that's really where I think my sales career started. I mean, I'm not going back to the newspaper route and, uh, um, or anything like that, but like that was like cold calling people was where I sort of cut my chops. Then it, it got into cold calling for other things I put together.

[00:02:29] Uh, I got people into a consumer expositions around health and natural lifestyles was an early proponent, um, way before the modern health food store, the whole foods years before them like putting on shows, um, and bringing 15,000 people and getting exhibitors to buy booths. And. And selling them on, you know, how to merchandise their, their booths.

[00:02:54] So that's kind of where I got my start in sales and, you know, and then I went into my own business, was an art and clothing company and it, it failed because of a poor partnership. And so I went back to business school. Um, and at that point, which was back in 89, I started. Selling consulting services, nothing more intangible than, uh, then consulting services.

[00:03:18] Um, but we, we would have usually a deliverable, a business plan, a loan package, a, um, you know, something that was maybe a marketing study. So selling consulting service was pretty much selling intangibles. And I think if you can sell yourself and sell intangibles, you could probably sell anything. But I do think some people.

[00:03:38] To sell products and services, um, where they're not associated with it. And some people are better off selling themselves. So my history, so, so I want to go back to the door-knocking days. My favorite, I love, I love, I love talking about people who cut their teeth and knocking on doors. And, uh, so I always loved just kinda spending a little time there and seeing, you know, what you learned.

[00:04:07] Through that experience of like just, you know, kind of starting your professional career and, and, and knocking on doors. Well, um, uh, I learned something that, uh, to this day, um, I might still be learning, which is kind of an interesting thing. So, and I think this is something that all salespeople have to deal with, which is reject.

[00:04:29] Um, that it's not personal. So in the early days that are going back to knocking on doors, I worked for a company called Massachusetts fair share. It was literally trying to knock on doors and get people to, um, vote in favor of. Ballot issues. I believe that, or around fair share around property taxes and it was a quasi democratic socialist organization.

[00:04:57] Um, and I remember that if you got a hundred dollars a day, if you raised a hundred dollars knocking on doors, like you were. Uh, a king and you were up there with a couple others that sold and did really well. I do remember like a couple days having those experiences, but I remember more days not having those a hundred dollars days and let him do literally remember crying one day, feeling like I was rejected.

[00:05:27] I was a failure. Like how could people not believe in what it was that I was selling? And I think to this day, Um, that, you know, that's something that all salespeople need to deal with, which is that, you know, failure is just feedback. And, um, if you personalize it, then it's not going to go, well, you need to sort of depersonalize it.

[00:05:49] You need to make yourself a little bit more immune or numb to that rejection. So, so failure as feedback is so important as a sales. Yeah, I think that, you know, learning how to deal with rejection and then not personalizing, it is like an essential, super power, uh, in anybody who's in any sort of revenue role, right?

[00:06:16] Whether it's sales, marketing, Entrepreneurship side hustle, you name it, right? Because that's the, that's the common thread, I think with like salespeople who do or don't make it or entrepreneurs that, you know, tend to fail, um, is that. They take it just too darn personal. Right. And it actually has nothing to do with them.

[00:06:39] Um, sometimes people don't buy just because it's actually just not a good fit and it has absolutely nothing to do with you. And th th the, the difficult part though, for a lot of salespeople is that we don't. Sell the person on like getting us, giving us the feedback. And so they ghost us and then we kind of wonder, like, why did they ghost us?

[00:07:07] What did we do wrong? Did we do something wrong? And you know, w when we come to the, when we get to the. Realization or when we remember that people buy for their reasons, not ours, they buy on their timeframe, not our timeframe, then it makes it more palatable. But it's a difficult thing when, you know, you don't get the sale and you kind of don't know really why.

[00:07:31] So, yeah, I think, you know, as I look back, I think the other really big learning lesson is that mindset that the strategic. Mindset, the sales mindset, the business owner's mindset, the side hustle mindset, whatever it is, you have to embrace the mindset that is going to be most positive, most motivating, most encouraging for you to pick yourself.

[00:07:59] And keep going and just look at it as, you know, feedback, like what did I learn or what can I incorporate, what can I do better? How can I, you know, and, and in sales, you know, there's like maybe a handful of different compartments or elements to what you have to do to be successful in sales. Right. So, um, you know, do I need to do a better.

[00:08:20] Prospecting. Um, first of all, I need to start with, do I have a good list that I'm, that I'm working on and then of the people that I'm prospecting, how am I doing with creating. Chemistry and connection and commonality. Um, and, uh, you know, how is that working for me? What can I do to be more understanding, more empathetic?

[00:08:41] How can I do a better job of identifying their pain, their frustration, their, you know, cause people buy for two reasons, pleasure or pain and oftentimes. It's mostly pain. And so we have to figure out how do we make this experience, um, less painful or not painful, or how do we resolve the pain that they're experiencing or frustration in their business.

[00:09:05] So, yeah. You know, salespeople need to look at the different elements. Those are just three of seven elements and how do I, how can I do better? What's one thing I can do better. So, you know, we always said that, like, I think I stole this from Brian, Tracy, but he's like, you know, if you, if you look at the seven elements, if you could.

[00:09:24] Improve each element by like 10%. Well, you're not going to get a 70%, you're going to get more like a hundred or 200%, you know, it's compounded. It's huge. Yeah. Yeah. Geometric and I think, and I think the key thing, like going back to what you said was people buy for their own reasons and on their own timeline.

[00:09:44] Right. And I think that's a huge. Misconstrue. I think, I think a lot of salespeople or entrepreneurs or whatever that sell are confused about that, right. They think that they can persuade you into buying, right. Or that you're buying because of something that they did. Right. And the reality is you can actually do everything right.

[00:10:06] And still not get the sale. Correct. I mean, and, and look, it might be, oftentimes we say, well, they didn't really have the budget, you know, but did they not really have the budget or did we not really sell the value? Did we not convince them or persuade them that there would be a return on investment and that the value would.

[00:10:29] Um, exceed their investment or their costs by multiple times. So, um, yeah, I mean, sometimes a lot of times, um, I love that you mentioned feedback a couple of times too, right? And there's two different, you know, as a seller or somebody who's responsible for revenue. Um, there's two things. Kinds of feedback that you can get.

[00:10:53] And I think one is often, um, not seek out enough, right? And there's the feedback from the people who bought and they love you. And everything's great. And like, Hey, let's turn this into an awesome case. Study, give it to marketing and knock some more deals down. Great. Right. That's what most people seek out.

[00:11:10] As far as feedback, very few people go back to the deals that they lost and said, Hey, Jonathan, you know, we obviously didn't do business for whatever reason. Um, but I'd love to just learn what I could have maybe done better. Do you have any feedback for me? And that feedback, the people who they got nothing to lose, right?

[00:11:29] Um, you're not doing business together. You're not partnering whatever the case is. Um, they'll give you some real feedback. Hey, you were. Or, you know, you didn't really understand what we were trying to solve here. Um, you know, that feedback is so valuable because that information goes into everything. That information you learn, there can go with you into everything that you do there off after, and make you get a little bit better at each of those stages where you may be fell a little bit short.

[00:11:57] I think it's really important. And it's unfortunate that too many buyers don't follow up. And respond to those inquiries. I had it happen to me recently. Someone seemed to all interested, they were going to buy one of my enterprise coaching level packages. Um, they thought it made a lot of sense. They were going to consolidate all their other business coaches and, and peer groups.

[00:12:22] And they were going to focus on one coach and they, you know, the, the CEO was all interested. He wasn't gangbusters, but he was, you know, he thought this was the right move. Um, he brought me in to meet with his team. I did a zoom session. Everyone seemed kind of pretty far away from the zoom camera. It was a little hard to see the feedback.

[00:12:43] Um, I engaged the team in a conversation, you know, we then followed up a week later. Um, and then he was like, yeah, I think we're going to start this in November, December. Um, and you know, here we are at the end of the day. And I never heard from him. And I did send him a couple of follow-up emails and a phone call and you know, what, why is it that people don't want to really engage?

[00:13:07] Um, and I can make up a whole lot of reasons, but the truth is is that, you know, if I focus on revenue generation, then I'm going to go out and look for. The next prospect and stop spending a lot of time thinking about wondering about the, um, the last one that I deliver to. And, and so I think, you know, it's really important when you're in sales to really understand how you're wired.

[00:13:35] Um, so I'm why. Uh, more to be an account executive. And that means that I'm really great at servicing my existing customers, um, prospecting for new customers and banging down the doors like that. Isn't something that gives me a lot of energy or thrilled. But some people are real natural or they're they, they want they're, they're great business developers, but they're stink at the account management.

[00:14:02] And, and so if you're going to be, uh, getting a side hustle or applying for a sales job, understanding. Your personality type and you know, which one are you? Are you the, are you the hunter or are you the gatherer or, you know, or you're the farmer who, who tills the soil of your existing, you know, with your existing crops, super important.

[00:14:25] And we need both, but. You know, they're both valuable. Yeah. Do you think somebody can be great at both? I don't really believe they can. Um, I think that they there's a tendency to be more one than the other. Um, and I think it's, uh, I've not seen people who are great at both. It's like, you know, I've seen great salespeople.

[00:14:52] But I've never seen great salespeople who are great at doing the paperwork, you know, like their that's not their gift. And so they need to be supported by someone who picks up where they're not so strong, you know, filling out reports. That's not what they want to do. That's not what gives them energy.

[00:15:10] Yeah. I would say I fall on the business development side a little bit. I think I would say I'm fairly strong on the account management, but definitely more strong on the business development. Right. If somebody doesn't show. Genuine like real serious interest. I typically don't have the patience to try to like really, you know, have a long game strategy of nurturing and following up and doing it.

[00:15:34] Like it's just, you know, but one thing that you said that is interesting is. Focusing on your revenue generating activities, right? Like what are those, know what those are, create space for those, right? Because it's really easy to get bogged down and exhausted around why you didn't win this deal or why you're just following up again, you know?

[00:16:00] Um, and, and that, you know, example you gave where you, you, you pretty much did everything right. But the deal is still. Didn't close. And I think you'll never going to know necessarily why people didn't buy, unless you ask them. But, you know, you can only be only ask once or twice and you're right. And a lot of times they're, they're just not even gonna get back to you mainly because most people.

[00:16:22] Are uncomfortable with any sort of conflict and they don't want to let you down. They don't want to hurt your feelings. They don't want you to then try to, in most cases, they don't want to say anything because that's going to sort of open up the opportunity for you to then. Persuade them, which nobody wants to be persuaded, you know?

[00:16:43] Yeah. I agree. So, you know, it's an interesting dilemma for people. Um, and so like Colin, if you're, uh, you know, if your listeners are hiring someone, um, you know, you might, they might find people like you, you know, you're a really talented entrepreneurial person. Maybe you don't make a great employee because you're more of an entrepreneur, but, you know, could you be a business developer and account executive?

[00:17:08] Yeah, I suppose you could. I do think that people will tend towards one or one thing or another. And I do have a quick little interview question that I would tell my clients to run by their prospect, which is like, you know, you're, uh, you know, pick a city. Okay. You're a. Well, gosh, I think he needed to pick a, see, I know that geography, but let's just say you're in St.

[00:17:33] Louis and, uh, you're headed out to door, headed north an hour away to see what is the largest prospect that you've ever had the opportunity to get in front of. Um, and your biggest customer is an hour south, you know, of you in St. Louis and calls you and says, um, I have an issue. I need you to get down here right away.

[00:17:55] Like. So, what do you do? Where do you go? And it, it's pretty interesting. Uh, the answers that you get, I think it's somewhat revealing the business developer heads, north and figures he'll deal with the account, you know, problem later, the account executive heads, south and figures. Well, uh, if that opportunity is still good, you know, hopefully I'll get it later.

[00:18:16] Um, and then the person who's kind of like you described yourself, you know, they figure out how. And account executive over to their client. They had up north to the business opportunity and they, they try and, you know, win the day with both. So, um, yeah. Yeah. I liked that last example when we do. I would be, I would be curious to see how honestly, some people would answer that.

[00:18:44] Right. Because they're pilot. Oh, just right answer. Yeah. Not, you know, so many people are not like, Hey, what's my gut answer, which is like the true answer versus. What do you want to hear? You know, do you want me to tell you well, you know, and, and the interview, the resume oftentimes speaks volumes, right? If we'll clearly, if it says account manager and account executive, um, that's clue if it says, if the guy says, well, you know, raised $7 million in capital, you know, like took 300 clients from, you know, to 600, like if it's all.

[00:19:21] Client acquisition and numbers and growth and revenue, you know, where that person's head space is at. And that person tends to, I think, change jobs more often because they're always looking for a next challenge, the account manager though, they might change jobs also, but they're typically not reporting those types of incredible results, um, with their clients.

[00:19:45] So, and, and I mean, this is why you see it, you know, most modern. Um, sales, you know, teams have a clear divide of. You know, various, you know, there's the, there's the S you know, SDR, BDR, you know, that, or, you know, business development, um, there's the, you know, account executives. Um, and then there's even like customer success too.

[00:20:12] Right. So, um, you know, there's, there's different people who are. Better suited for different roles and knowing which one you're best suited for is definitely important. So tell me a little bit, Jonathan, about the work that you do specifically with, um, the type of clients that you work with, you know, what do, what are those client, what problems do those clients have and what type of work do you do with them to get to solutions?

[00:20:41] So this is a great question, but I'm still focused on the biggest mistake. From this last conversation where I can just finish with that. Um, so just the biggest mistake I think small businesses make is that they confuse sales and marketing. And so they just kind of combine the two and then you get salespeople who were in marketing roles, and it's really important for people to understand that marketing's job is to generate leads.

[00:21:07] Salespeople's jobs is to convert those leads into paying customers. And if you hire a sales person, a business development person, and you put them in charge of marketing, um, your. You're really setting that person up pitch for potential failure, because unless that's your whole marketing plan is just to use BDRs and SDRs to drive leads.

[00:21:29] So these are two really different functions. And so it's important to distinguish between the two, sorry. I had to address that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a huge debate, right? Hey, do SDRs and BDRs report to sales or marketing. Right. There's people who have difference in opinions about that, for sure.

[00:21:47] Right. Right. Um, so the types of clients that come to me, Colin, um, oftentimes have the wind at their back with regard to sales and marketing, meaning that things are going reasonably well. That there's a fairly good, consistent lead generation. Now that's not the truth of a few years ago. That's the truth of the past few years where, I mean, except for people who are pandemic really like just wiped out or hit really hard, like restaurants, which are not my clients, most of my clients are, um, in the.

[00:22:20] So blue collar type, uh, you know, contractor types, property management, real estate, family businesses. And some of them are, are overwhelmed by the amount of responsibility that is falling on their shoulders. And they're working too many hours and they have. To basically build a team that they can leverage their time and talents so they can enjoy the journey of entrepreneurship more.

[00:22:45] So that's definitely one profile of the type of client that I work with. And at what I do with that type of client is I help them to see what their. Time should be worth, really is worth what they're really making and what they're really doing. So they can start to understand what's there, you know, how do they operate in their zone of genius and zone of excellence and delegate away stuff that can elevate them?

[00:23:12] And create jobs for other people. Entrepreneurs need to have a vision about how to build and scale, and that requires leveraging other people. So I help coach them on how to become a more effective leader in that situation, because leadership is about creating followership. It's about getting results done through other people.

[00:23:34] And so a lot of times these. Our small businesses. And so they're small minded, so they don't really think through how do I get this overwhelming overworked? Um, You know, out of the way and become better. Um, other companies come to me because they just don't have enough profit and they want more of it and they don't know how to do it.

[00:23:56] And so oftentimes what we're focusing on is the execution details in their business, which is, you know, setting up, score scorecards, measuring what matters, um, driving priorities through the business, getting people to work on the business and not so much in it. And having. Having a results oriented culture, not just in the sales and marketing department, but also in the accounting and finance and in the operations department, because, you know, uh, oftentimes one or more of these departments might be really lacking in.

[00:24:28] Quality people that can, that are engaged and are, are supporting the salespeople or the ops people. So, you know, that's another profile of a type of company that comes to me. And typically they're, they're small, they've got 10 to 50 employees when they come to me and hopefully when they leave, they've got a hundred to 200 plus employees.

[00:24:52] Um, or maybe even more, but they're trying to scale up and they're a seven figure business trying to get to an eight figure business and they've hit a ceiling and they just don't know. And it's probably because they don't have a great system. So that's why I wrote a book and the book is basically a playbook for how to scale up a, a family business.

[00:25:13] Um, there's other books that are on my shelf here called scaling up and traction and the E-Myth that I for. Uh, with my clients. So they understand that they're not alone. And what are some of the tools that small business owners are using to become medium-sized corporations. Um, and, uh, you know, how they're building accountability, how they're creating leadership, uh, their sales and marketing plan needs to think beyond just sales and marketing, which is oftentimes very tactical, but you know, what is your strategy?

[00:25:44] How do you, how can you differentiate yourself in the. How can, if you want it to 10 X your business, what would you need to offer? That would be a really differentiating value proposition. And if you don't have that, then what's the tiebreaker or tiebreakers, that's going to make your business. Head and shoulders above others because it offers two or three tie breaker type of, you know, best practices or best deliverables.

[00:26:12] So I hope that answers your question. Yeah. Yeah. Um, uh, I love, I love how. Detailed those profiles were right. Like so many people think they know who their customer profile is. And it's typically stops as far as like this job title, this industry, this size. Right. But when you described those profiles of people that you know, that you can serve best, it was very.

[00:26:43] Detailed. It was, yes, it was these companies, typically this size, most cases, these industries, but more importantly that are struggling around these severity specific problems. And, and, and I think. That's often overlooked where too many companies, uh, we were salespeople or coaches, um, think they can serve everybody.

[00:27:09] And it's, it's really clear that you've gotten very clear on who you serve best. Right. Do you have any like examples or stories of like, just, you know, give us an example of like, Hey, you know, worked with a client, these were kind of the things, you know, kind of high level issues. This is what we worked on, and this is where, um, And we ended up once we solved those things.

[00:27:28] Yeah. So, um, I have a lot of examples and, and the one that my client is most public about, it makes it easier for me to share. Um, and he, you know, so, so, uh, I think it's so important. That if you're a salesperson you get, and if you're running a company, get clear on who your avatar, your ideal client profile is and get not just the demographics, but the sociographics.

[00:27:52] So this particular client I'm going to tell you about started working with me seven years ago and is still working with me. To this day. And, uh, and I'll fast forward to the results. I mean, he's 10 X his company. Um, he took a family business that was doing between a million, million and a half dollars.

[00:28:10] And we're on track to do $14 million this year. And we're on a March to do 30 million. And I think our. Big hairy audacious goal, a 20, 30 million by 2030 is going to get eclipse. And I think we could be a $50 million company, um, in the next eight years. So we did a little bit of everything. He came to me because he was just taking over as the CEO.

[00:28:36] He hadn't been yet given that title and the. I had a clear, ideal client profile. Um, he didn't fit the overwhelmed overworked necessarily. Um, he didn't fit the more profit, although that was definitely the issue. What he really needed was help with leadership, coaching, and development so that he could be the successor.

[00:29:00] And I called him. Um, he is in my book as the dis I call him the disruptive successor because he really was a rising generation that was taking over the ownership and the leadership of his family business. And so I had to teach him like all the fundamentals of like developing an organization chart and accountability chart of the future.

[00:29:22] What is, what are the positions? What are they going to be? Um, let's start creating job scorecards for people so they can fit those positions. Let's coach everyone up. So they, um, they're more, they go from being role-players to leaders. Let's teach them what leadership is. Let's also teach them what management is.

[00:29:41] Those are two very different things. Um, let's create a business plan and, and sell that vision to everyone in the company. And, and let's create a purpose and communicate that purpose, not only to our employees, but to all our stakeholders and like let's dominate our market. By being everywhere, being ubiquitous, we have, you know, my client has the nicest trucks has the best signage has the best marketing as the best website has the best employees.

[00:30:07] It does projects in the community once a month. And that they're, you know, completely donated. They write an article, um, once a week in the community newspaper that gets visible. I mean, all these things that make them the best at what they do. And. So there were so many things over the seven years, uh, that we coach them on.

[00:30:28] But you know, it was about driving more profitability. It was about creating more freedom for the owners of the company. And it was about creating a path, you know, like a career path for every employee who joined that company, that there would be a trajectory that could take them up if they want it. So great stuff.

[00:30:50] Great integrate story. Yeah. Incredible story. Thanks for sharing that. Um, Jonathan, thanks so much for coming on. Really enjoyed this. Where's the best place for people to connect with you? The best place to connect with me as on LinkedIn, Jonathan gold hill, um, that's probably the best place to connect with me.

[00:31:09] I respond pretty quickly. I'm very active on LinkedIn and uh, of course you can go to my website. Find my book and learn more about my coaching there as well. Awesome. I will drop the links in the show notes for everybody. So you can get connected with Jonathan. Thanks again for coming on. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends.

[00:31:32] It really does help us out. And I'm also listening for your feedback. You can go to sales, transformation dot F. Drop me a voice DM, and I will get back to you. Hey, you stuck around that tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation. If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same path, head over to sales, cast.community, and crush your numbers on your leaderboard.

[00:31:57] Yeah. It's free sales cast, doc community. Send me a DM with your best pitch and mentioned this ad. And I might even give you free access to our best templates.