In this episode of the Sales Transformation Collin podcast, Collin Mitchell talks to Kristina Jaramillo, the President and Founder of PersonalABM. Kristina talks about the primacy of Account-based Marketing (ABM), and why more sales and marketing teams should use the approach instead of the traditional methods that focus on mass messaging.
One of the things that Kristina advocates is synergy between sales and marketing teams to focus on unique attributes of a set of accounts. For this to work, marketing needs to create specific and relevant content that the sales team can use to create a story, instead of just focusing on filling the pipeline. This way, sales teams can win what she refers to as “internal conversations” that the customers are having between themselves.
Kristina also talks about being extra mindful when qualifying prospects to ensure that you’re giving enough attention to deals that are most likely to close and provide the best revenue sizes for the company.
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Kristina: "When you go to maybe 95% of sales people's profiles, it talks about the president's club, the quota, you know, the sales that they've achieved. But I get it, I understand. But if I'm a prospect and I see that, I'm not gonna want to connect with you because I'm gonna be like, oh no, they're gonna hit me within two seconds of connecting with ‘let's get me on a demo, let's get me on a sales call.’"
Kristina: "Going for reach is what sales and marketing love to do. And I think that can kinda shoot you in the foot because obviously it needs to be done. But if that's all you're doing and you're not focusing on that interaction that you're having or the experience you're delivering with your prospect audience or even like your network, I think you're leaving money on the table especially for your tier-ones."
Kristina: As a seller, you need to ask marketing for content that is relevant to these target accounts, not content that is brand awareness, or speaking at accounts -- actual content that is making these connection with those target accounts ."
Kristina: "Content for marketing needs to be for specific selling conversations. Like what do we need to talk about with this particular account or this groups of accounts. What are those internal conversations that are being had without us that we can fuel whether it's with content or with other pieces of information?"
Kristina: "When we do a win-loss analysis in working with clients we find that most of the time where they are losing, most of the deals are because those internal conversations are not going in their favor. Their champion or their mobilizer isn't able to get that internal consensus and it's because there wasn't that content to make that happen."
Kristina: That's what I mean when sales and marketing need to actually work together instead of marketing just focusing on just pipeline and what are we gonna do to fill that pipeline. Because if it trickles down into nothing at the end, then you can fill it as much as you want, and what's the point?"
Collin: "So many times, revenue teams can get so focused on who their target is, who their perfect ICP is, who their customer profile is, like who should we be working with, that they don't spend enough time identifying who should we not be working with. What red flags, what priorities, what things do we know or have we learned through our experience that we know this is gonna lengthen the sales cycle significantly?"
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[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell. And this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.
[00:00:24] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation today. Christina to that. How'd I do on that.
[00:00:38] I love it. I love it all. I see. I get like a C minus on that, but we're going to forget it. All right. Oh, wow. That's not bad. Better than I thought I was going to do. She's the president and founder over at personal ABM and while most marketers focus on. Getting the accounts into the pipeline. Christina focuses on driving greater stage progression and accelerating high value deals to revenue, which is obviously why we brought her on the show.
[00:01:07] And we've got some interests. We're going to dig into her story and we've got some interesting topics planned out. That should be a ton of fun. Christina, welcome to sales transformation. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to have conversations. One of my favorites. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gave me some, some good topics to pick from.
[00:01:23] So I'm excited to dig in. It's not something that we've covered before, so it should be fun. Um, but before we get to that, just give us a little story version of your story, you know, where did your revenue story start? Yeah, well, um, personally BM has been around in one iteration or another for 13 years now.
[00:01:45] And what we've noticed from the start was the more personally you get to the actual individual, as opposed to just the company, the better the deal is. If you're connecting with that human buyer, I mean, networking, selling, buying, it's all pretty much the same. Connecting one-on-one um, with people and if they can make that connection and make it as personal and relevant to them, um, you know, that's what we saw from the beginning.
[00:02:12] Um, LinkedIn, back when it was in its infancy, like trying to get business and sales that way, and we're kind of doing traditional marketing as usual. It wasn't very, you know, just kind of using digital. It wasn't personal, it was more of the mass, more of the pipeline. And then we saw that what was really working was getting.
[00:02:29] Well that and saying, not even just to the person, but what's in causation, in their industry and their role as much as micro level, as you can get it, we're making better connections. We're able to have a different selling conversation. And it's kind of evolved from there. About five, six years ago, we kind of adopted the challenger selling model and adapt it to LinkedIn because we saw a lot of people weren't using it.
[00:02:55] It's one of those commercial approaches, because it can be a little rough enough putting if you're not using it correctly, but trying to just realizing that meshing different ways and different approaches and kind of connecting and being one-on-one with someone, um, is kind of gone from there. And we, what we do is we really are what I've learned is that anything that we do as a business, we've kind of tested on ourselves first for proof of concept and kind of.
[00:03:24] Better and hone in, optimize it perfected. And then we run that same kind of process for our customers. And, you know, it works really great for us. It works for, you know, our typical clients are B2B and they're selling higher end deals. So that's, you know, what we found works for that industry. It might not work for everyone.
[00:03:41] Um, and so tell me a little bit, like when you say personalized and you know, this one-to-one right, which, which is harder to scale, which is why most people are concerned of, you know, maybe not going in on that or not paying attention to this sort of approach, even though they should be right. Cause they're more focused on quantity versus quality.
[00:04:02] What's the argument, you know, to focus more on these personalized one-to-one, uh, approach approaches and. All right. So I get the one-to-one ABM, you know? It's ABM. One-to-one, there's that one to few and one to many. And I one-to-one totally agree. It's not scalable, but what you learn in those mini conversation, those many interactions, what you learn to change those sales and marketing motions.
[00:04:29] You scale to the one to few and one to many, and they'll just optimize those programs better. I mean, you're always going to have your organizations. You usually have, you know, salespeople that are targeting these bigger accounts, these larger enterprise. So, if you can help them with that, one-to-one whatever works for them can be scaled down to your, in your BDRs and your AEs and hopefully marketing will, and they should be helping you along the way, because this is not a kick it over the fence and have fun with it type of thing.
[00:04:59] And this is, uh, a partnership hand in hand, you know, we're on the same team. All type of thing. Um, and I get it. One-on-one, isn't scalable, but if you can choose maybe a dozen, two dozen accounts to kind of run with it as a test, you'll see that the results that you get are great. And then the lessons that you learn again, can be applied to.
[00:05:20] Yeah, I love that because, um, and I often talk about this, like from a podcast perspective, right? Because one of the things that sellers and marketers are often told to do is like, get to know your customers, hang out where they hang out, read the books, they read, you know, go to networking things that they do to speak their language or whatever.
[00:05:38] And I love the idea of like having a podcast, having conversations, having those one-to-one conversations with these people. And some people are like, yeah, you know, but that's, that's not going to happen. Achieve all my goals and it's absolutely right. It's not, but the knowledge, the things that you learn in those conversations carry over to every other sales and or marketing activity that you're involved in thereafter.
[00:06:04] Absolutely. 'cause that's kind of what we apply our podcast to. We have one too, but people will be like, first question is how many listeners do you have? How many downloads? And I'll tell you those stats, but they're not going to be what you think they're going to be. Um, because if you pay attention to who I'm interacting with, I'm either interacting with people that I want to do business with or running your business down the line, or people that I know have a bigger audience themselves.
[00:06:27] So will help me grow a little bit. So it's a combination of both. You use it as another selling tactic. It's not true. Reach. It's not just brand awareness. It's if you can inter weave it with that. Plus the fact it's on a selfish, from a selfish perspective, I get to learn so much by talking to these people that it's like, I learned so much in these conversations that I wouldn't necessarily learn on my own or reading a book.
[00:06:51] So I love it. Yeah. I mean, you, you get this, you get to understand the people beyond. Their industry, their title, um, and being a prospect. Right. And, and you can ask them any question you want, any question you want and the things that you learn, they're going to every other conversation or every other initiative, which, which I love about it.
[00:07:14] Um, so, okay. So the, so basically if somebody is trying to, let's say somebody is just, does not have like a account-based marketing approach at all, where do they get started? So it's typically when I'm talking to like salespeople, maybe on the, you know, either new or just kind of trying to expand, I always say increase your relevance.
[00:07:36] If you, whatever platform you're on, I'm just gonna use LinkedIn as example, because that's the one I love and use all the time, be more relevant. Like I can't even tell you. And I'm sure you agree with me that when you go to maybe 95% of salespeople's profiles, it talks about the president's club, the quota, the, you know, um, you know, the, the sales that they right.
[00:07:56] But I get it. And I understand, but if you're I'm a prospect and I see that I'm not going to want to connect with you because that'd be like, oh no, they're going to hit me within two seconds of connecting with let's get me on a demo. Let's get me on a sales call, show me some value. And you kind of pre-frame it.
[00:08:11] And it's awesome because you can skip that step of kind of, if I was going to prospect you and I was able to phone call, I kind of pre-framed you with maybe my profile or content that I can send you and not have to. I called building credibility saying why we're so great saying why you should listen to me.
[00:08:28] You didn't do it upfront except to save some time. Yeah. So basically what I hear you saying is like, LinkedIn is the best place for like a seller to have an ABM strategy. Right. But the problem is, is that posts, people are doing it wrong. It's all about me, my accomplishes, what I've done. You know, president's club, this, that the other, I mean, there's, there's some people obviously that are doing it right.
[00:08:56] Uh, but there's still a lot of people that are still, you know, connecting and pitch, slapping you with something about you don't even care about. In most cases, it's not irrelevant to you. But the thing is, is what I think most people don't realize as sellers is how you're using LinkedIn and how optimized your profile is, or is it.
[00:09:18] It really can work against you if you're not careful. Absolutely. And even if you're not using LinkedIn as a platform to sell it, say if you know that you're going to have a selling conversation or some kind of meeting with someone, a lot of times people will Google your name. And one of the things that come up with LinkedIn or they'll search you on LinkedIn, and I'll look at it and they'll say, are you talking all about yourself and your organization?
[00:09:41] Are you talking about yourself in the third person? Are you just saying about, you know, revenue, revenue, revenue? Are you. Changing my mind. Are you making me look at my problems a different way? Are you going to give me value once I connect with you or get to, like you said, that pitch slap stuff that happens on a regular basis.
[00:09:58] Yeah. Yeah. And, and if the answer is no to all of those things, couple things, one, they may not accept your connection request. Let's say they, you know, maybe you fooled them and they accepted your connection request. Probably not going to reply to the next message. Right. Um, or, you know, they're not going to book that meeting, right.
[00:10:23] Because you've basically, you've, you've basically ruined. Your chance that first impression matters. Right? And if you're somebody who's and this is why it drives me nuts. And so many people do this, um, that you know, seller and it get it. If you are a seller and you sell into sellers, okay. Posting sales kind.
[00:10:46] Makes sense, right? Maybe your SAS product that is for sellers. And so, you know, posting content, that's beneficial to sellers. Make sense. Okay. But that's, that's only, you know, certain people, but you see so many sellers posting sales content, and it's like, you don't sell to sellers. Why are you doing this?
[00:11:07] Not relevant. Yeah. It doesn't get an occasional something, but like your whole content strategy. Is around sales content and you're getting sellers to engage with your content who are not your buyers. What are we doing? I think another thing that I've seen is that a lot of people are really like campaign focused.
[00:11:30] So they're focusing on mass, sending out messages. If you know, we're putting stuff into sales law, we're putting stuff into outreach and we're just worried about cadences cadences. So like, you know, going for reach is what sales and marketing love to do. And I think, you know, that that can kind of shoot you in the foot.
[00:11:49] Cause it, obviously it needs to be done, but if that's all you're doing and not focusing on that interaction that you're having, or the experience that you're delivering with your prospect audience, or even like your network, I think you're leaving money on the table, especially for your tier ones. Um, or, you know, th the perfect ICP that are in market that are showing, um, interests that are showing intent.
[00:12:13] And you're just kind of. Mass messaging though. You're treating them like everyone else. So it's kind of lead a lot to be desired from the buyer's perspective. Yeah. And so, and so if that is, you know, kind of where you're at, right, then there's some more of that one-to-one work that needs to be done to cater the messaging and the approach, you know, a little bit more scale.
[00:12:38] Um, based on what you learned in those one-to-one Iraq. Sure, absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's, if you're just a salesperson that doesn't have the capacity for running an ABM program or, you know, account based selling program, and you're not getting the support that you need for marketing, besides speaking up for what you do need as, as a seller.
[00:13:01] Mixing, what you're saying is that one-to-one kind of content that's maybe, you know, your ICP is one, a couple of industries, and you're just sending, you're sending content to just one industry. So that's a little more, and then you can put your personal twist on it. So if you're settling, uh, sharing a white paper on, you know, someone that works in SAS and you put your spin on it, that would be really relevant to a couple of key accounts that you're looking to engage.
[00:13:27] Then that's a, that's a kind of account-based approach. Um, that's a little more scalable, a little more doable for an individual versus someone that might have more support. And so how can, how can sellers, you know, make a case, you know, how can they, you know, account based, um, enablement, you know, how can sales teams start asking for this and, you know, start.
[00:13:53] You know, get a strategy from the revenue team that, you know, could, could work if this is not something that's, you know, um, being done within their organization. Yeah, absolutely. And I know it's harder for people that are maybe lower on the totem pole, but if you could get your sales person to kind of speak up and talk to marketing and tell them, you know, we really need account profiles on our tier one.
[00:14:15] I CPS, um, you know, that. Named accounts, not just, you know, they fit this criteria. So named account profiles and show, you know, this info should to show like insights into what's going on in that organization. So it'll be easier for that seller to connect the dots between where that target company is now, where their strategic priorities are maybe for the next 12 to 18 months, where do they want to go?
[00:14:41] What problems are they having? What are they thinking? And then you can kind of weave in. Focusing on the departmental needs, individual wants and needs, and it'll make your job as a seller so much easier. And then, you know, if you can't get account profiles for everyone, you can kind of maybe use them for other organizations to get a little more insight, just a little more relevance.
[00:15:03] And that helps with the relevance. Cause I know it's very hard. Um, as a seller, when you're trying to. You know, get so much done. And I think you also, as a seller need to ask marketing for content that is relevant to these target accounts, not content that is brand awareness or speaking at accounts, account, actual content that is making that connection with those target accounts and, you know, one great way to do this as a case studies.
[00:15:28] And I've seen that a lot. Of the case studies that sales is being provided by marketing or like building credibility, you know, saying we did X and achieved Y but they're not really telling a story in the, you know, the study that, you know, sales is what they, that's what they really need. They need these stories to teach for differentiation, which is part of the challenger sale.
[00:15:50] Um, and teaching it against the status quo. Why is it that we should even switch? Because usually these switches are really painful. But the pain of not switching, if you can show that it's obviously more painful, it'll be, um, easier for them. And then content for marketing needs to be for specific selling conversations.
[00:16:12] Like what do we need to help with this particular account or this group of accounts? What are those stations that we need to have, or that are being had without us, that we can fuel it, whether it's with content or with, um, other pieces of information. You know, like when we do a win-loss analysis of working with clients, we find that they're most of the time where they're losing most of the deals are because those internal conversations are not being, you know, not going in their favor, like their, their champion or their mobilizer.
[00:16:44] Isn't able to get that internal consensus. And it's because, you know, there wasn't that content to make that happen and to help it and make them, um, Winfrey you entirely. And that's what I mean when sales and marketing need to actually work together, instead of marketing, just focusing on just pipeline and what are we going to do to fill that pipeline?
[00:17:05] Because if it trickles down into nothing at the end, then you can fill it as much as you want. And what's the point? I mean, you're, you're, I guess you're hitting MQL, but that's about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and so let's look at it from maybe like a little bit of a different angle, right? Here's how to, you know, go to your revenue team, go to your marketing team, to sort of, you know, fight for, you know, uh, the content that you need, you know, to really implement, you know, an ABM strategy.
[00:17:34] Um, but let's say you fight that fight and you lose, right. You don't get it approved. It's not a focus. There's other priorities who knows. Um, can sellers do this on their own? Like, can they have a content strategy maybe in content strategy? Um, without the support of. Yeah. I mean, I think he can do it as a sales team here.
[00:17:55] We're gonna definitely need, um, it's, it's going to be more than a one person job, but if you can say, as a team of sellers say, you know, we have these top 10 top 20 accounts that we really want to penetrate. We know they're going to be our biggest, um, revenue deal sizes. Then you can kind of see what you can do as a team with what the content you already have maybe, and tweak it.
[00:18:19] Yeah. More if maybe you need to create, um, a way a webinar that has a bunch of salespeople on it for just the manufacturing sector or just, um, you know, B2B, SAS sector or whatever it is that you're trying to serve and try to do it that way. And content doesn't have to necessarily be written. We're doing work for creating content right now with this podcast.
[00:18:42] So you can do a webinar. You can do like a round table where you get some of your top prospects or even top, um, Customers to come on and say, you know, what are the challenges they're having so that you can sit, share that story with other organizations that are probably having similar challenges and it's going to be relevant.
[00:19:03] And, um, you know, it'll be on a smaller scale obviously, but if you can get your foot wet and justify that, then maybe when you show the results to marketing, there'll be more, um, accommodating download. Yeah. I mean, maybe even dipping your feet, you know, dipping your toe in the water with something with the sales team prior to that could be beneficial.
[00:19:25] Right. And I'm even thinking of just individual sellers, maybe small organization, um, creating the content themselves, right? Like sellers have the ability to create content. You know, it's, it's easier than it used to be. Even if it's just written text content. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned case studies, right?
[00:19:45] Yeah. No, I think case studies are good, um, when they're done. Right. Which in a lot of cases, they're not what you, you mentioned as well. Right. Um, but even just telling a story as an individual seller on your LinkedIn profile. From something you learned from a prospect or, you know, a discovery call or, you know, a journey of, you know, how your prospect was the hero, because this particular thing happened when you work together.
[00:20:13] Like you can take information from the conversations that you're having and turn them into stories, which is content, whether it's written or video or whatever the case is to do this and to have a message that's going to be relevant to the people you want to work. Yeah, and you're taking a stance. And once you create that piece of content, you can repurpose it and share it with other people.
[00:20:35] And, you know, you can share it. Maybe you put it integrated into your outreach or SalesLoft cadences and make sure it's only going to people that are super relevant or it's relevant to, I mean, there's ways of doing it. It doesn't have to just be the age old, boring blog post, or, you know, that white paper that no one reads because it's 50 pages or something stupid like that.
[00:20:57] Do people still do. I don't know. I don't know. I see them and I see product sheets all the time and I'm like, I don't really, I, I, I never really understood the white papers. I think, you know, when people started doing that as I was like, do people actually read these? No, I think unless it's like your job, somehow, maybe if you're a Gartner analyst or you worked for forestry, you have to read them, but that's a different like everyday person.
[00:21:22] I don't think so. And it's always just about the company and the products. Cares. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. And I think another thing that sellers can do with this account-based, um, kind of strategy is really focused on tearing out their targets. Cause I can't, I don't know how, if you've seen a lot, but I've seen people that treat a smaller potential client when selling to them, marketing to them as they would someone who could be.
[00:21:53] Huge whale. Like, I don't understand why you're not giving the bigger person or the bigger company, the attention that they deserve versus putting the smaller into that one to many kind of campaign focus. That's another thing people have to think about too. Yeah. And it works. It works against you. On both ends of it, right.
[00:22:16] It could be, you know, not spending enough time with the larger potentials. Right. And then on the flip side spending too much time, um, you know, with, with, with the, you know, uh, smaller size opportunities, but we're getting really good at qualifying, you know, who are we best at? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's more than saying, all right, they're in manufacturing or they have a hundred sellers or whatever.
[00:22:45] It's, it's getting down to maybe like personally, I said ourselves, we're working really hard to almost disqualify accounts because we're saying what, w what's the red flag that we're seeing is it that they're too focused on another initiatives and they won't be able to focus on us for another 12 to 18 months so we can put them on a recycled.
[00:23:06] Um, sir circuit, um, or, you know, because I've seen that, um, even when we're we have qualified them initially, and then through the buying process, there were red flags that we just ignored and we wasted our time and kind of spun our wheels. That's a really important point, right? Because I think so many times, you know, revenue teams can get so focused on, you know, who their target is, who their perfect ICP is.
[00:23:32] Right. Um, who their perfect customer profile is like, here's who we should be working with, that they don't spend enough time. Identifying who should we not be working with? Can we understand who we should be working with, but what red flags, what priorities, you know, what things do we know or have we learned through our experience that we know this is going to, you know, lengthen the sales cycle significantly?
[00:23:56] Um, or we have a, or the PO the possibility of this actually becoming a closed one opportunity is, you know, significantly lower because of these things. Yep. And I think that goes back to people saying, you know, our ICP is XYZ, but you know, even if you have your ICP down and you're just targeting people that fit.
[00:24:20] You're going to have different deal sizes as well. So that goes back to like tiering those accounts to make sure, you know, within all those deals are going to be different profitability levels and, um, different deal sizes. So you gotta make sure that you're spending the right time and using it well on the accounts that actually matter.
[00:24:36] I'm not saying, obviously ignore the smaller accounts because obviously, obviously a bunch of those are going to equal larger account, but. Spend it all, um, on those smaller accounts and then ignore the bigger ones, the more balanced you can be or try to be. I know it's never going to be perfect. I think the better results are going to be.
[00:24:55] Yeah. And then tell me, like, what are you seeing? Like why is it that a lot of, you know, ABM account based sales programs under. So I think what it is is that it's more of the same, account-based like typical marketing or selling conversations as usual, but maybe we're just doing it a little targeted, more targeted.
[00:25:16] So instead of sending it to a thousand people, we're maybe sending it to 800 people, um, it's still that campaign focus, that campaign mindset, um, instead of delivering or focusing on those interactions or the experiences that you're delivering your. Leaving the person out of it or the, the individual human out of it.
[00:25:36] And what I've seen is that a lot of ABM or abs strategies are not changing the terms. They're kind of just using a different tool set with the same approaches and it's really. You know, it's, it's one of those things that you have to have top down buy in for too. So like if a marketing team or a sales team said, they want to run account based, if they don't have senior level, buy-in, it's much harder and it's not going to be a successful.
[00:26:06] And I think that's why a lot of them underperform. Um, and it goes back to just putting in mass messaging through our campaigns and our cadences, um, you know, and not working. At sales and marketing, working at the beginning of the buyer's journey, as opposed to maybe working together at the end, or even in the middle, you got to work from the beginning all the way to start all the way to close.
[00:26:27] Because if, if there was a huge deal that sales has, and they need a little bit of marketing support, there's no reason that you can't just jump in there and give it to, to close that deal. So it's not just like we gave you that pipeline. It's full, have fun with it. We're we're going to actually help you so that they don't go through.
[00:26:45] Um, you know, make sure that each social or email or live conversation is tailored for relevance. Getting back to challenger, teach us for differentiation and teachers against the status quo, because I, what I've seen is that a lot of people are trying to teach again, either outdated or legacy solutions or platforms or tools.
[00:27:08] Or just doing things the way we've always done them. And, you know, change is kind of expensive and change is kind of annoying. And, but if we can like show you why the need to change will be better in the long run than you're changing the conversation entirely, as opposed to just talking about pain points for your, um, the personas that you're selling to.
[00:27:29] Yeah. And I think the key, like is what you mentioned, right. Is. Staying consistent with that throughout the whole sales process, right. Not just in the very beginning. And then, you know, as it gets further along, it's a very different conversation and approach and, you know, no longer, you know, teaching in that way that you were in the beginning of the sales process.
[00:27:53] Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Christina, for coming on. I really enjoyed, this is a, this was a fun topic, um, that we haven't covered before. So I really enjoyed it. Any final thoughts and where can people, you know, connect and get into your world? Uh, final thoughts will be, do you just make sure that everything you're doing is this personality?
[00:28:13] Um, I know that's going to be difficult in every stage, but the more personal, the more relevant to the individual, the better chance you have of engaging. Um, and, you know, connect with me on LinkedIn. I live there and check out our a site, personal abm.com. It's in the process of getting revamped, but it's still up there for now.
[00:28:33] And, uh, that's it. Make sure when you connect with me though, that it's a relevant connection, not just like connect. Yeah, it's personal as it can be personal, but not too personal, not creepy. Uh, well, Christina, thanks so much for coming on. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review. Share the show with your.
[00:28:56] It really does help us out. And as always, I'm listening for your feedback, you can go to sales, transformation dot F M drop me a voice DM, and I will get back to you. Hey, you stuck around that tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation. If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same path, head over to sales, cast.community, and crush your numbers on your.
[00:29:21] Yeah, it's free sales cast, doc community. Send me a DM with your best pitch and mention this ad. And I might even give you free access to our best templates.