Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Jan. 31, 2022

#236 S2 Episode 105 - How to Stand Out as Revenue Human with Amy Hrehovcik

This episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell features Salescast’s very own Head of Community, Amy Hrehovcik. Amy talks about her own sales journey, and gives us her insight about hyper reliance on dashboards and why sellers need to revisit the Pareto Principle. She also shares her experience on building communities from scratch and what it takes to do successful reach outs.

Amy, who also hosts the Revenue Real podcast, talks about how podcasting is a critical skill to learn for today’s sellers, and how the platform can help you keep abreast with the ever changing world of sales.


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HIGHLIGHTS

  • From macrame bracelets to financial literacy for kids and moms 
  • A good reach out entails a deep understanding of the community
  • The problem with aggressive use of dashboards
  • Hyper reliance on activity metrics can be detrimental
  • Sales leaders need to look beyond the top line revenue
  • Remember Pareto's Principle 
  • Podcasting as a critical skill for sellers 
  • Sales is always changing
  • Wait for your results and don't quit too early

QUOTES

Amy: "Aggressive use of dashboards, I think the first and biggest one is not focusing on effectiveness and a hyper reliance on activity metrics as opposed to effectiveness is a massive mistake. I think that we do not do a good enough job as a profession differentiating between those that are applying effort to change and grow and develop and maybe not getting the results, versus those that are applying no effort at all."

Amy: "You are going to get 80% of your results from 20% of your activities. Your job, especially at the beginning, is to identify what those 20% of your activities are so that you can both do more of them and stop doing the things that are not working."

Amy: "There's a million reasons why we're burning through sellers mental health-wise. But focusing on activity for activity's sake, without the connection between the results and not teaching people how to make these decisions for themselves, this is a big part of that problem." 

Collin: "There's a lot of waste. We're coaching on the wrong things. Because a lot of the coaching is around how to focus, how to do more of the activities that are not the majority of the results. You got to know what are those things that are gonna get the majority of the results and coach around them."

Amy: "We've done ourselves a tremendous disservice with these turnkey dashboards. When we're just able to just turnkey buy a dashboard and integrate it into Salesforce, we've lost the principles of these numbers."

Amy: "Sales is always changing. The way that buyers are buying is always changing. Are you?"

Amy: "Everything works and nothing works. You just have to do it long enough in order to give your results enough time to come in. So don't quit too early. And that goes for podcasting too."

Learn more about Amy in the links below:

Learn more about Collin in the link below: 

Also, you can join our community by checking out @salescast.community. If you're a sales professional looking to take your career to greater heights, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a call with Collin and Chris.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell, and this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:24] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. I am very excited for today's guest. Funny enough, I don't even know why. Herjavec has not been on sales share information yet. It was the funniest thing. We, you know, Amy and I have become friends. We've been working together. Now she's the head of community at sales cast.

[00:00:47] One of my absolute favorite humans for many reasons. Um, and at some point I think a couple of weeks ago, it dawned on us that Amy has never been on the show and it's been too long. So. Welcome to sales transformation. Why has it taken us a long? I don't know. All I know is that all those, all those sad nights, lonely nights that I've been watching two episodes a week fail, you know, get published in and one or no, no, no.

[00:01:17] Is it five now? Oh my gosh. Okay. But no, every time a new one would come out, I, I just, I would cry softly into my pillow and, but all I can say is that here we are, and the path that has gotten us here, it has been. A fun one and I'm excited as well. Favorite? Yeah. So favorite, favorite human. Yeah. And so hopefully you'll return the favor and allow me to come on your show revenue, real hotline, which I've been invited to by the way.

[00:01:46] Um, but anyway, for those that may be don't know who you are. Please take us back a little bit. Where did your sales journey start? I mean, I started my sales journey started young. I was a child, it was modern bracelets. Um, and I'll never forget the joy that I felt when I, my aunt, who was a graphic designer handed me my first business card.

[00:02:11] Um, yeah. And I chose all the, the neighborhood kids, including my sisters, how to do those macrame bracelets. And then I would go from beach set up to beach, set up and sell them. Um, the beach itself, that's where it started. But, uh, once I graduated school, I, I, I tried it quick stint in politics, but quickly realized that was not for me.

[00:02:33] And I've been selling ever since. So I carried a bag for a decade. I then pivoted to sales enablement, and I built out two sales enablement departments. And yeah. Now. I get to wake up every day and teach sellers how to use their voice and the podcasting medium to connect with buyers and, and generate revenue.

[00:02:55] Um, uh, I remember, I remember that I actually forgot for a second, that you had a short stint in politics. Oh, my gosh. Well, you know, I it's it's, I can't even, I wanted to be a lobbyist. Okay. So there it is. And if you look at that most trusted profession or the least trusted profession, so sales is the second least trusted profession, only beat by being a lobbyist.

[00:03:18] And I don't know Collin, what it says about me or my character that the, those are the two professions. I was drunk too, but that's a conversation for a different, well, knowing what I know about you, you probably thought it as a challenge to show that, uh, it's a profession. They can be. Right. Um, well, I hear that think tanks are also another angle for a, do you know what I'm talking about with the, at tech?

[00:03:44] Okay. But anyway, yeah, no, it's probably was actually, that's a great point, but I don't think I knew at the time that that sales or a lobbyist weren't trusted, maybe I did, but I don't know. But here we are here we are. So tell me about your 10 years carrying a bag. Like what, uh, what, what, what were you. You know, what were the early days of, of Amy selling?

[00:04:04] What were the things that you were doing differently? What were the things that you maybe struggled with a bit as a seller? Okay. Yeah. Um, So early days. So my dad is a VP of sales, head of financial services brokerage. And so I actually started in, in his office just to kind of get my bearing then ADP then Thomson Reuters.

[00:04:29] But when I was with my dad, right, I. I was so young, like here and I wanted to, I had this passion about, um, all the people, my age that had all these student loans. Okay. And so, like, I'll never forget that feeling like after like graduation week, when I went to American university, bright thinking I was on grants.

[00:04:52] Like the equivalent of scholarships, I guess. But I had almost, all of my friends had like triple digits, like over a hundred thousand dollars worth of loans. Um, and that bothered me. And so I wanted to marry this idea of like selling financial mutual funds, like that kind of shit with education around money and.

[00:05:14] And I tried a bunch of different things, but I ended up putting together this, talk on how to teach kids about money and started marketing it to moms groups. And I remember it was such like the concept itself when I first did the prospecting calling like, and I had tried a bunch of things before this, it didn't work, but I, I sent out a bunch of these emails to the heads of these moms groups.

[00:05:37] And within like two hours, there were like 10 booked, which. Taught me a bunch of which we can come back to. But I remember in that moment now here, I don't have children. I'm like 22 years old. I, what the hell do I know about money? I can barely like, I, I didn't know shit. And so I remember feeling like, I guess imposter syndrome would be a good way to describe it.

[00:05:59] And it was like, okay. I was petrified right. To, to put it nicely. And then also like what, what, what kind of qualifications do I have to teach moms about whatever? And now don't get me wrong. I read every book that I could find about kids and money in the psychology of money. And so, and I had a great talk prepared.

[00:06:17] However, my dad sat me down and he said, Amy, this is only going to be an issue if you allow it to be.

[00:06:28] And given, and he was watching me study and he was watching me learn. And he's like, you already know more about this topic, then 99.9% of the moms that you're going to present to. And so that was, that was one of the, that was one of the bigger moments for. And I'm going to pause there, but there's, there's plenty more where that came from.

[00:06:52] So I'm curious, come on a couple of things. What, what do they, uh, you know, this early in your sales journey, right? So what did the messaging say? If you remember, like, what angle did you take with the messaging to get such a high, positive, you know, response or a, about a thing that you, you know, felt you didn't know a ton about.

[00:07:15] You're talking about for the prospect in the outreach messaging. Okay. So I got to like, there, this isn't a story, unless like I talk, I think I tried three or four different things, including like college planning seminars at libraries. Right. And I would go to the libraries until I was messaging it to the head of the law, like the library director.

[00:07:33] And I would go there and I would bring my, like, I was carrying a little easel. And nobody would show up, right. This happened a bunch of times. And it was like, okay, like nobody showed up. And I think I tried one, I think I went to nursery schools too. Cause I was like, all right, I'm going to go try that too.

[00:07:48] That didn't work. But what worked with the moms group? So it's something clicked in my brain instead of trying to get people to come out to something that they were not used to coming out to. I was going to find places where they were already hanging out and go to them. And that was like a fundamental shift in my brain.

[00:08:09] Like it, uh, okay. So I don't need to necessarily create the party. Right. I have since learned how to do that, but at that moment in time, like I'm just going to go to where the party is. So that was the first thing. And then it was like, okay, where are these parties taking place? And there was another piece of it.

[00:08:26] Like if you're a moms group and there's mom, there's tons of moms groups. It was like, like a Mo mothers of preschool or whatever. There's tons of them and there's one per county. Um, and so I realized that here you got a bunch of moms are getting together and I. Uh, they, they run on the things to talk about at these meetings.

[00:08:46] And so I was like, I'm going to give them an option to try something completely different, uh, and see who C who nibbles. And so between those things, like that's, that's how it happened, but you know what? Collin is interesting though. Cause the first lie, like, like all things, right. It starts with. Think about a particular topic.

[00:09:06] And I started on this easel. The first slide was a picture of a tree and it had the roots. And I I'm trying to figure out how to build the, this particular tree into one of these sales cast, um, to like Kajabi. Since there we're doing so we're bringing it back. We're bringing it full circle to, you know, it's, it's how you're thinking.

[00:09:24] And it's what you're feeding your brain that produces your results. So lots of great things in that story. And thanks for taking us back there for a moment. Um, but I'd say the key thing is like, and I think this is just from, you know, how well I know you, this is, this is how. Much you care about people in general, right.

[00:09:48] And it really shows in the work that you do. And I think this is something that sellers could learn a lot from, right. Is you didn't just reach out and try to do you know what maybe everybody else was doing in your space. You really thought about where are they hanging out? Where, what are they doing?

[00:10:03] What's the least amount of work for them. You know, to get involved with something like this and reached out in a really meaningful way. Um, based on some really deep thought of understanding who those people are on the other side of that outreach, I, I call him, I'll take it a deep step further. How many financial planners do you know that are thinking about kids?

[00:10:23] How many financial planners do you know that are like from the. That are thinking about moms and the angle of moms teaching their kids or the absence of like financial literacy programs. I mean, we're going back like 25 years here at this point. Like there, there were, oh, brokers, like we weren't even talking about student loans yet.

[00:10:43] Like this was still, this was still like a, a secret thing, but I appreciate that. And I received that compliment. And what was interesting though, is that the con the company, right? My Spotify. This kid really, it was like often like a little random spot in New Jersey and ended up pulling me up, um, to teach, uh, and deliver the framework back to people across the country, which.

[00:11:11] Big thing for me as well. Um, and I think maybe that may have been one of the first times that I fell in love with teaching other sellers. Like I was never about like, oh, I figured something out. Like, let me hoard it, let me keep it to myself so that I can, you know, nail those leaders, boards, like I, and I've had managers or, um, people encourage me to do that.

[00:11:33] No. Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and share it, please. We're all in different territories. It's totally okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's still some sales organizations that can be very, you know, a little bit of competitiveness is nice, but like overly competitive where it doesn't feel like a team environment and not willing to help each other with what you see that's working is just a horrible, uh, environment to be in for a seller.

[00:11:59] Yeah. And it's, it happens, um, almost inadvertently, like in the same way that we don't, like, we don't teach her vintage or shit. Like there's like almost there's next to no sales bus, um, onboarding programs. Like it's, it's actually pretty embarrassing. Uh, however, It's one thing to learn how to coach an individual, but like coaching a team is, is, is a different thing.

[00:12:20] And so it's very easy to tip into like toxic competition, even just within the aggressive use of dashboards. Um, and so you really do have to be very, very, very careful about that. Um, cause it's a fine line to walk. Use of dashboard for some reason, I'm super curious to get your thoughts on sales, bosses, and aggressive use of dashboards.

[00:12:47] And if you are a sales boss, you might want to just. Find another podcast now. Cause this might get ugly. No, I'm just kidding. Stick around. You might learn a finger to, Nope, I didn't call it. It's like it's what is it? The, the trigger warning. I told you, we got me. I have to tone down the sarcasm just a bit.

[00:13:08] Right?

[00:13:12] I'm from Jersey. Okay. Dirty jars. Keep it real friends. Um, okay. So tr aggressive use of dashboards. All right. So there's a, there's a bunch of things. One I differentiate between sales bosses and sales leaders, and I have a great deal of empathy for the plight of the sales boss and the sales leader. Um, this is a more recent thing, benefited the doubt here.

[00:13:34] Right. And we'll dig into what is a sales boss. Um, it's not their fault. It's really not to extent, you know, at some point you gotta take, you gotta take owner, you gotta take ownership for, you know, doing things right. And growing and learning. But in a lot of cases, they're brought up with poor leadership and it's, it's, they're, you know, they're doing the best they can with what they.

[00:13:56] Right. And so yes, you can do better and you need to know, you know, what you should or shouldn't be doing as a sales boss, but all right. Let's, let's take it also known as educate, educate yourself. I believe. Um, there's a lot of new and cool programs that are popping up. Like I'm thinking of Derek jink house cam thinking of Katie.

[00:14:16] I know, I don't know who's still doing it, but anyway, seek out these skill development program, sales bosses so that we can whatever, but anyway, aggressive use of dashboards. I think the first and biggest one is not focusing on effectiveness, right? And a hyper reliance on activity metrics as opposed to effectiveness.

[00:14:34] I think that's a massive mistake. I think that. Um, we do not do a good enough job as a profession differentiating between, uh, those that are applying effort to change and grow and develop, and maybe not getting the results versus those that are applying no effort at all. So that's a hard thing to capture, um, with dashboards and I, I think the other problem.

[00:15:03] Dashboards is the absence of the coaching, right? The absence of that empathy, the absence of that, um, like true caring about the person behind the numbers and, you know, for anyone that's ever. Stepped out of carrying a bag and maybe move towards, uh, I dunno if it's sales enablement or sales boss, like con the hardest thing for me when transitioning to sales enablement was realizing how pervasive that thinking was about sellers, right behind the scenes from our own teams.

[00:15:35] Right? We are. We are cogs in a, in a machine like we're line items. And we're just going to leave anyway. And seller is don't make great managers because we're so selfish. Like all of those things, like I knew those were things outside of, you know, who no, one's excited to talk to a salesperson where the least trusted profession, but like, I really, at that moment, like, well, maybe it was naive.

[00:16:00] I thought that we were. You know, in our own little pot of, of, um, other sellers that maybe are now sales, bosses or leaders, but I was wrong in that front. And so all of those things are some of the underlying reasons of why dashboards are, um, used poorly. Um, yeah, because, so what, maybe let's say if there's a sales boss, that's listening to this, like, Hey, this is all I know.

[00:16:26] This is, this is what I was taught. This is how my sales boss treated me. What can they do to change? Well, step one is awareness, right? So that's, that's the thing. Um, what can they do to change? What's a good step one in, you know, once they're aware, like, Hey, you know, I didn't even realize I was being this way.

[00:16:49] It's this is how I thought I was supposed to do this job, but I want to do. Where do I start? You know, I'm going to, I'm going to give an answer here. That's probably a very, it's not one that you hear often. I think a great place to start is to familiarize yourself with the financials of the business.

[00:17:06] Right? We, as a profession, we do a great job with understanding top line revenue, right. But when it comes to profit margins or efficiency, right. That the knowledge gap there. It's like another way to describe it is like P and L right. But being responsible for your profit and loss statements is a revenue leader.

[00:17:28] Like this is almost a rare thing. And so, but in the absence without understanding the mechanics of, um, cost and the connection between. You know, activity and cost and then the effectiveness, the results. It's very hard to move the department towards effectiveness, which is again, right. It's like, but another way to think about it or another word that people use is your conversion rates.

[00:17:55] And so step one I would say is dig into the financials of your business. Um, go have a conversation with finance and try to look at the, the department. A little bit deeper and a little bit more nuanced, you know, then just obviously that top line revenue, because the revenue is important. Right. And I am absolutely not saying it is, but how there is zero chance of moving your team towards effectiveness and creating dashboards by the way, which are a by-product of understanding.

[00:18:29] How to move the team towards effectiveness there that there's zero chance of that happening without having a much, much, much better understanding of the numbers of the business. Again, beyond just that top line revenue and how does this help me serve the people on my team better?

[00:18:48] When you, as a leader are able to make smart decisions with the resources on your team, including the time and the. Of the people around you, then you know how to coach the individuals on your team about how to make smart choices with the time and the resources, like the resources available to them. And like another, like, um, just maybe a little bit of a, too far of a stretch, but like, Gap.

[00:19:15] Like one of the things that I think that we need to do a much better job teaching our new sellers about is the 80 20 rule, right? Pareto principle. You are friends, listeners, you are going to get 80% of your results from 20% of your activities. Your job. Especially at the beginning is to identify what those 20% are activities are so that you can both do more of them and stop doing the things that are not working.

[00:19:41] And so when you, like, you can dig into, um, like call lists, right. Calling into Collin, has his live stream called a show. This. It's great television. It's so fun, but like playing around with like each list. Okay. Who are you calling into? Like how deep did you go into the factors? And then let's say Collins are the episode last week.

[00:20:03] And then two weeks before that he can look at the results that he's gotten by way of number of meetings set, and then look at those. Right. Where did this list come from and identify which, which one was better? Right. And the beauty of predators principles, the beauty of the 80 20 rule is that it always plays out.

[00:20:24] You were always going to get 80% of your results from 20% of your activities. And so, um, as a sales leader, when you yourself understand the connection between the activities that are happening, And the inputs, including your tools and are able to connect the, that, those two results. That is where that understanding, like the true understanding comes from that it enables you, or empowers you to turn around to your team and help them to also make the same decisions.

[00:20:54] And this is where this is one of the problems with, or like there's a million reasons why, you know, we're burning through sellers, um, like mental health wise, right? So burnout. Focusing on activity for activity sake, without the connection between the results and not teaching people how to make these decisions for themselves.

[00:21:13] This is a big part of, of that problem. Does that answer the question calling and just to kind of recap that a little bit, right. Is, I mean, I think what I'm hearing you say, and I totally agree with is there's a lot of ways. That happens. Right? There's a lot of waste where we're coaching on the wrong things, because a lot of the coaching is around how to tell we were code, you know, how to focus, how to do more of the activities that are not the majority of the results.

[00:21:48] Right. So. You got to know what are the, what are those things that are going to get the majority of your results and coach around those and spend more time on those. And then it becomes less about how much we're doing. And how effective we're being in what we're doing. Hmm. I love it. Can I add one more thing to this?

[00:22:10] We've when it comes to aggressive dashboards, we have done ourselves a little bit of time here. You can do it. You knew it. Okay, good. Cause I had no idea. Um, you got me going now. Once you drop that line, I was like, oh, we're going to have some fun.

[00:22:30] Okay. So the, um, when, when man, okay. The other challenge with the aggressive use of the dashboards is that we don't understand the principles behind them. Right. And so like an a don't get me wrong. Like, I, I love these turnkey. There's a couple of, a lot of times reps are just putting in, putting in work to meet the metrics.

[00:22:52] Yeah, well, that's, that's what they want, but keep them off. I hit these, you know, I mean, this has been going on for a years. My first, uh, you know, my first sales job was in a cost center and people in the call center would, you know, got to get the phone, time up, gotta get the dials up. And this is way back when like you could call in to get the movie times, you know, you'd like call on the phone to see what time the movies were playing.

[00:23:17] And do you remember having to wait? That's how raps. Would get their phone time up. They'd be like, man, George has got incredible phone time and he's, you know, but he knew who bought the movie. He knew every time telling you every time at every movie theater, you know, in Southern California, because I made a mess.

[00:23:38] That's what he was doing all day. You know, the boss, he was the greatest ever. Um, you know, that's just an example right now. It's, you know, people were, you know, sending out lots of messages, making lots of calls just for the fact to hit the activity, but not even caring about the results. Right. And then reps get comfortable just making the bare minute.

[00:24:04] You know, knowing that they're never going to hit their full potential financially. Um, and as long as I can keep hitting these activities, I can survive off of this, you know, salary that I'm getting. . Yeah. Okay. And so here's another problem with the aggressive use of the dashboards. It is, um, like I'm thinking some of the turnkeys, like building dashboards, by the way, anybody like in sales ops, it's listening or revenue ops or whatever, like my heart goes out to you.

[00:24:31] Cause I know how miserable that is. Um, and making sure that the integrity of the data is good. So I feel you there, however, we've done ourselves, a tremendous disservice with these turnkey dashboards, right? Like just, um, I can't remember. There's one, um, that's whatever the name is, escape. However, when we're just able to just turn key and buy a dashboard and like, you know, integrated into Salesforce, we've lost the principals of these numbers.

[00:24:57] So Collin I'm thinking about, um, Jason bay has a, has a spreadsheet that teaches reps how to do, how to track. Their own activity and their own effectiveness. I'd have one that, that I it's very different one. And I do custom ones with each person that I coach actually. And there's an episode on my show, the revenue real hotline, I think it was episode three day con cracks, the talent code.

[00:25:23] We go into this, but part of what Jason is doing that is so magical. And part of that episode with DEI, that, that moved him from like zero to 300 X better than what he was doing. Is because we have to break down the principles of prospecting in this almost like building blocks and then put them back together.

[00:25:42] And so once this is a critical step, because like, if you think about how there's an art and a science to everything, right? What most people get wrong about this concept is that you need to learn the science for. You need to understand the principles of what you're doing so that you can then create some art, right.

[00:26:01] If you're going for results or effectiveness. And so when we do these dashboards, like we've, we've almost, we've removed the, like learning how to, you know, work with your own numbers by touching them and putting them into a, a tracker of some kind. Um, and again, we've, we've handicapped everyone because it's, it's one of the reasons that.

[00:26:24] This art, this creativity, this autonomy that everyone is looking for, which by the way, is where happiness, which is hard to scale when you're just focused on maximizing activity. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And which is just step one. All right. So, Lisa, um, alright, this is, can we talk about the community so, you know, originally.

[00:26:54] Jeff connected us. Um, when you were just trying to get started with your podcast, right? You had, um, some ideas on what you wanted the podcast to be. Um, it was how you wanted to help and serve revenue humans with something that you are super passionate about. I'll let you tell the story, but that's, that's where sort of our relationship started and a lot has happened since.

[00:27:20] Yeah. Yeah. So talking about transformation span. Okay. So I wrote, you know, this, but listeners, I wrote an article for sales hacker about, I dunno, it's like a year and a half ago on mental health. Right? Mental health is the greatest competitive advantage that you'll ever know. And in it, I share part of my story.

[00:27:38] Um, and it, it did the article. Well, uh, it was also pretty raw and vulnerable, but I, I don't know how it happened, but I remember getting an email from Andy Paul saying, would you come onto the show and talk about like, whatever? And at that moment I had never been on a podcast. Right. Am I, of course my response to him was yes, but like, please tell me, like, I need to buy a blue Yeti microphone.

[00:28:02] I've been looking for reasons an excuse to get one. And he's like, yeah, definitely do it. But now at this point, like, so don't get me wrong. Like I, I use the speaking circuit to sell. This was one of my favorite tactics. Like my opportunities towards the end would walk up to me as I stepped off stage and shake my hand and say, can I please email you?

[00:28:19] And I would say yes, please. Thank you. But that said, I love that part of your story because it's almost like. Pre pre podcast is it's very much, you know, what happens in the podcast space today with using it to drive revenue, build relationships and open doors. And you were thinking about it just with a different, the monster of story.

[00:28:41] Yeah, that, that mom, that was 22 years old. It was always about this always for me anyway, but again, I had a doubt. There's so many people who still don't fully understand the concept. They're not there, but, and that's okay. They'll get there or not like whatever, if it were easy and if everyone were doing it would be harder to differentiate.

[00:28:58] So I got no qualms about that, but anyway, if you are a part of the feeling gets it club come hang out at the us and sales casts. But anyways, so the co so, uh, So now, like, don't get me wrong. I told a part of my story and part of that con as you know, like I committed myself into an inpatient treatment series because I knew I needed help and I couldn't do it by myself.

[00:29:20] And so sharing a piece of that story. Um, was I, it was like two pretty paragraphs about a craft room. And now I'm going to go on the number one podcast in all our entire profession and talk about my mental health story. Like I was petrified shitting my pants, friends, like shit. Like when people are like, this is your show is my first show.

[00:29:42] I'm like, oh, okay, look, let me tell you about my first experience and then we'll talk about it. Um, but anyway, so I did. Right obviously. And when I was done, two things happen, I asked Andy like how I could do better next time. Right. And then the second thing was I knew in that instant, that podcasting was going to be a critical skill for sellers moving forward.

[00:30:05] And how could I possibly empower people with the skills and concepts that I myself did not have? And so. That's what I set out to do. And then, yeah, when I show, I, I, Jeff Friedrich was critical during this period. And, uh, yeah. So then when it came time to actually getting this done, right, it got to a point column where I could not look myself in the mirror any longer until like, unless I launched this podcast.

[00:30:32] And so Jeff, when I was like, I need help. I need somebody that knows what they're doing. I don't know what I'm doing with God. What is hosting? I don't even know what that is. And so Jeff gave me a list of five peoples that I could possibly reach out to. And I was like, this is way too much due diligence.

[00:30:46] Like here are the exact qualities of the person that I need in my corner. And I listed them out and he's like, okay, well, in that case you need Colin Mitchell. And that the rest is history. And by the way you have been on my show, you were episode one, you interviewed me. It doesn't care. It's not the same.

[00:31:03] It's not the same by, so maybe it does count.

[00:31:09] Well, you got to tell people. Yeah. Um, you know, it was, it was a similar experience. So the way I love to kick off a podcast is a guest host interviewing the host. It's it's, it's my personal favorite way to start a show because, um, podcast listeners typically go back and listen to past episodes or episode one, or sometimes you see it as the trailer.

[00:31:33] Um, and it's a great way to know the host story and why they're doing the podcast and, you know, a little bit more because a lot of times when you're in the host, You don't get to tell as much of your story, right? Because you're typically letting somebody else tell their story and navigating through that and having a conversation about that.

[00:31:50] So I love launching and kicking off a podcast with a guest host, you know, interviewing the host. And so that's what we did for your show. Um, and I was, you know, um, it was very, uh, Nice. If you task me to be that guest host, and you asked me after, how was that? And I was honest with you. And I said, I think we can do better.

[00:32:10] So we did it again. I know the exact words and I know what the exact words are because I left it at the beginning. I actually started a first episode with Golan Mitchell saying I didn't like it. Yeah, that was being nice as being nice. Um, but a funny story, funny story. My first podcast, my first podcast that I had, which, um, I think I did about 200 and something episodes with that show.

[00:32:37] Um, and I was interviewing entrepreneurs and founders and, um, one of the first interviews now we didn't, we didn't start. Oh, we did start to show, you know, interview. Chris interviewed me and then my first. Me interviewing somebody. So my very first experience, I mean, podcasting is tough. It's one of the toughest things.

[00:32:57] Right. And, um, we're always our own worst critics. Right? So it helps to have support, to have friends, to have people to have. Community, um, of people who will give you feedback, like real feedback, not like, oh, it was great. You know, like, no, well, I can't, I, why can't I hear my microphone? What was the question in there yesterday?

[00:33:21] Somebody was like, all right. I just bought the second microphone and I still can't get my headset to through. That helps you. Okay. I'm sorry. Uh, yeah, so I interviewed, I interviewed a guy named Roger, Roger Young, a good friend of mine, and we were done and I thought I did great. And I said, how was it? He's like, it was horrible.

[00:33:42] You need to just, he's like, you need to just be yourself. He's like, I have time. If you want to do it again, I'm like, please. So you experienced that too. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and, and you know what, sometimes I have people who come on. And I'll never forget it because in that first show, there was somebody who came on, who asked me, Hey, how was it?

[00:34:03] I was like, yeah, it was good. You know? And, and then I never released it because it really wasn't good. And I felt horrible about it. And then eventually I do feel bad about that. And then eventually I told him, I said, you know what? It really just, wasn't what we were looking for. We're not going to release this episode.

[00:34:19] Um, in that moment I told myself I'm never going to do that again. If somebody asks. You know, whether it's a host or a guest or how, you know what they're, I'm just going to be honest with them, regardless of how well I know them or not. Um, and this just happened the other day I had somebody on and it was probably one of his first few times being on a podcast and he has a good message and he has great, great experience.

[00:34:42] Just doesn't have a lot of experience telling his story on a podcast. And he asked me at the end, how was it? And I was like, you know, it wasn't the. And here's why, and we can do it again if you want. I love that. I do. I love it. And it's one of my favorite things. So listeners, my show it's called revenue real hotline.

[00:35:00] It is conversations about uncomfortable conversations and revenue really quickly. I chose the topic for two reasons. One in its simplest form selling is really just a series of conversations, really? So it's really relationships. It's how we experience the other person. Right. In many ways. That's how we experience ourselves, especially if you have to listen to them over again again and again, and if you're doing it right selling, that is, there's always an element of discomfort, right?

[00:35:29] So there's a skill development aspect to the conversations. And that is part of the show, right? How, hopefully I'm inspiring to get to a point where there's instruction, right. How to take what we're listening to. And, um, You know, apply that into how we sell. But then the other piece of ICANN is there's a lot of unspoken conversations about how we generate revenue as a profession, as a, as a country.

[00:35:53] And I, uh, I for 1:00 AM to I'm tired of the silence. And so between those two angles, this. Got me to, uh, to the topic. And I think we, so season one is done. We're working on the, so sales cast obviously is, is producing the show and we're working on the wrap-up video, but I am so excited for season two. So excited.

[00:36:15] Yeah. I heard there might even be some solo episodes. Come in.

[00:36:22] Uh, yeah.

[00:36:27] Okay. I know I'm excited about that. I am. I'm excited. I'm there. I mean, I'm a little nervous, like, we'll see what happens, but like, for me, it's all about testing things, right? Like it, you know, I think that's just like, as sellers, you gotta test new messages and you got to test new targets. You've got to test new approaches, you got to test different channels.

[00:36:45] You've got to test all of these things. Right. I then nothing drives. Nothing. Well, I'll just say nothing pisses me off more than the gurus out there in the sales space saying there's only one way to do it, or you have to do it this way or this doesn't work. And that works and stop doing this and start doing that and have this hard line on what you should or shouldn't do as a seller.

[00:37:05] It's nonsense. It's nonsense. Like what works for me may not work for Amy. Um, and you know, you gotta test and have your own experience and hopefully you are. Working in a place that gives you the autonomy to be creative and do the job that is the best way for you to get it done right now. There's some basic principles, but they're, you know, there's just, there's just, people are too dynamic, right.

[00:37:30] And sales is dealing with people and having conversations. And that is different in every situation. Um, and you know, I think that to say that there's one way to do something is totally wrong. Um, and so tie it back to like podcasting. Like the best thing to do is to just get started, whether it's a guesting journey, whether it's starting to show, you don't have to have it all figured out.

[00:37:52] Um, it's kinda like just hop in the plane without the landing gear and you'll land safely eventually.

[00:38:02] Um, yeah. Okay. I dunno. We're all specialists, no flakes after all. And plus, you know what, on top of everything worth it, you just said Collin, about why there is no one size fits all. Um, sales is always changing the way the buyers are buying. It's always changing. Are you, which is then it's not even my line.

[00:38:23] That's my Costco. That's his tagline on LinkedIn and I love it. And I've had him on my show. He was one of the first, so that's for you mark. One more time. I'll give you credit. And then it's going to be mine.

[00:38:35] Sales is always changing. Yeah. So whatever N and, and you gotta find what works for you. But, uh, in with that caveat, I will say, well, I'm going to drop Colin one less. Data's um, and then I'll be done on that, but. Everything works and nothing works. You just have to do it long enough in order to give your results enough time to, to come in.

[00:38:57] So don't quit too early. And that goes for podcasting too. Yeah. Yeah. Well said, Amy, where can people connect with you? Get into your world. We're going to drop a link for. Real, um, in the show notes, what else? Well, obviously in the sales cast community, like that is, this is where all the cool kids are hanging out and no, for the comment about that, um, I can be found on LinkedIn obviously and the website, right.

[00:39:21] We're just, we're in the process of building it out. And so I'm excited about that. You can certainly come play around, over there and. That's amazing. And my email address friends is Amy at, at sales cast.co. So by all means you can hit me up there. All right, we'll drop all of that in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends.

[00:39:46] It really does help us out. And I'm always listening for your feedback. You can go to sales, transformation.fm. Drop me a voice DM, and I will get back to you. Hey, you stuck around that tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation. If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same path, head over to sales, cast.community, and crush your numbers on your leaderboard.

[00:40:12] Yeah. It's free sales cast.community. Send me a DM with your best pitch and mention this ad. And I might even give you free access to our best templates.