Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Jan. 7, 2022

#224 S2 Episode 93 - From SDR to Sales Leader with Pradeep Sridar

This episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell features Pradeep Sridar, currently the VP of Sales at Wingman, software that allows you to record your calls, review deals, scale coaching and build a repeatable sales machine.

Pradeep recalls cutting his teeth as a young SDR and getting heaps of rejections until he switched his tactics and deviated from the call script. As a sales leader, Pradeep’s leadership skills draw from his own experience of tweaking his process to his personal selling style.

Today, he encourages his sales reps to be creative, believe in the product that they are selling, and be genuinely interested in solving the client’s problem.


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HIGHLIGHTS

  • Less about the product, more about the client 
  • Ask only the questions that you really care about 
  • Connect with the problem and close with the value 
  • The disadvantages of using a call script
  • Painful transition from SDR to AE
  • You can't teach negotiation skills 
  • Salespeople need to fundamentally believe in their product
  • Adapt to the evolving sales technologies to avoid getting antiquated

QUOTES

Pradeep: "I hate call scripts. But the things is I can help you with the framework. Using that framework, if you are able to generate value for your buyer, you can be extremely successful. If you're failing, then keep doing it again and again, and eventually you'll learn."

Pradeep: "The problem with call scripts is that you're just taking one person's opinion, and they are imposing it on tons of different people. And that often, to me, creates cringeworthy moments. Because even if I want to think of all the personas of Wingman, I cannot think of it in a blink. I'm only thinking about one persona, like the VP of sales. Then it might not appeal to a sales manager."

Pradeep: "When you're hiring freshers, you will hire people who are incredibly passionate about selling. You hire people who are natural talkers, natural conversational-builders, and who genuinely care about customers. You look for all these traits. So, if all of this are in the check box, then you should let them operate in their way for quite a while to even understand and get to know-how of what their style is. Else you will just be making a flock of sheep."

Pradeep: “In this kind of a complex marketing-driven, marketing-lead, then sales-led buyer persona, it is extremely important that you create value to every step of your sales process. And call scripts, they basically break that.”

Pradeep: “You just got to stick with the value. And for that, as a salesperson, you need to fundamentally believe in the product. If you're not believing in the product, that is exactly why I'm saying negotiation cannot be coached. Because salespeople are not believing in the product, then they are just going to keep throwing away discounts.”

Pradeep: “If you're not going to adopt these technologies, eventually, you're going to get antiquated. Because with the kind of millennial sales people, the way they think the way they sell is all different. They are too focused on the buyers and not very much focused on the admin work.”

Learn more about Pradeep in the links below:

Learn more about Collin in the link below: 

Also, you can join our community by checking out @salescast.community. If you're a sales professional looking to take your career to greater heights, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a call with Collin and Chris.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell. And this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transform.

[00:00:25] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. I'm very excited for today's guest. I've got. and, uh, I hope that I pronounced that properly. Maybe he'll correct me. We'll see. Um, but if you don't know, pretty piece the VP of sales over at wing man, a product that I love using myself and Pardeep, and I actually met originally, um, through SAS sales dot.

[00:00:50] Uh, where I wrote a few blogs and party is a seasoned sales executive having constant urge to challenge the status quo. And we're going to dig into his story of how he went from AED to, to VP. So pretty welcome to the show. Hey, thanks a lot for having me column, frankly, like flattered to be on the show.

[00:01:09] I've seen multiple episodes of this very genuine podcast, kudos to you and the team for doing a great. Yeah, thanks, man. Really appreciate it. I mean, it helps when we have awesome guests. So I'm super curious to dig into your story. Um, take us back a little bit, like where did your sales journey start? Sure.

[00:01:27] Uh, it's actually not easy to eat. It's actually more around the SDR to VP. Uh, so that is where I began. Um, so yeah, from, from the old say like when you look at it from just a title. It might look a lot more shinier. Right. But, um, only the insight I love how many times I got my ass kicked as an SDR and then like, oh, they're calling me.

[00:01:53] So, um, yeah, I w I would say in the whole journey, uh, the hardest part that I had, uh, was the transition. As Dr. Tuohy, right? Uh, the others were comparatively easier. Right. Um, but this transition was extremely hard for me as a person. Okay. Um, so I started my journey VBACs seven years ago. Right. Um, I was working for a company called Google.

[00:02:19] Like what about Zoho today was built on the first floor of this company. So, um, and then. It was a very interesting journey. I used to like cold call, like 200, 300 calls a day. Right. Um, and then like get, uh, two connects cold call was the only way to get, because I was basically selling up retail point of sale software.

[00:02:40] Right. Uh, people won't even open emails. Uh, so this was pretty much the only way. And, uh, frankly, I got like every objective that you want, like God bullied, um, God's called the, um, like God appreciated, like a lot of things. Like it was a very curvy journey up and down. Right. Um, and that is exactly when, um, I thought like, even at a point, I thought, Hey, this is not for me.

[00:03:08] This is not for me because they used to get like some of the eight blasts a day, right. There was like, uh, uh, but when you. One interested by it on the call. Right. That has been my interest. He was a spike, like really? I've got it, I've done it. Right. So then that proceeded for a while. Right. And then I took over in New Zealand.

[00:03:31] It's enough, it's enough positivity to just keep you going at it until the next time you get your teeth kicked in. Right? Exactly. Yeah. That's the point. And that's the beauty of sales as well. Right? So, uh, that was like, uh, I would say there's like 10 to 12 mood swings in a day. Uh, that happens, uh, especially in the SDR role.

[00:03:51] I have super high respect for the job. Right. And they. Love prospecting. Right? So even, even in wingman, I love to write three to four LinkedIn messages a day and see if somebody is interested to like, actually like have a meeting with me. Right. Because basically as SDR you'll sell, they will sell the meeting.

[00:04:12] You'll sell the context of it. Right. And that is something that I understood later on. Like initially I was selling the product as it. Uh, and that's why I got my ass kicked, but when I started selling the meeting that became more and more appealing to the prospects. So break that down for a second. Right.

[00:04:29] Cause I think that there's some people that don't really quite understand the difference, right. Versus, you know, leading with features, benefits and logos. All the junk that a lot of people unfortunately are still doing today. Um, and let's just put it into context, right. So you're still actively like using LinkedIn to prospect occasionally, just because of your passion for prospecting.

[00:04:50] Um, I think that, uh, you know, I'm the same way I love top of funnel activity. I love building new relationships from scratch. I love building something out of nothing. Um, and so I'm curious, like, what do you mean by selling the meeting versus like selling new or your. Exactly. Great question. Right. So initially the mistake that I've been doing, like I was doing, um, it was basically around trying to sell the whole product in five minutes, con I used to go, blah, blah, blah.

[00:05:20] What the features is to go deeper into the technicalities of the product. I didn't give a shit about what the customer actually wanted. Like I went on and on and on about only me, right. My side of the story, my product. Right. But. Then I started realizing that I had actually had a connect to it. That was very, very poor blood prospecting.

[00:05:43] I had only 1.5%. They connect it really shitty. Generally you have 10% in profit. Um, and they're trying, they understood that it's not all about me. You know, I, they are not giving a shit about me because. Why do they care about me? Like how can you build a person's trust or build trust with anybody for the tape in five minutes, it's important.

[00:06:07] They care more about themselves. Right? I mean, really? Yeah. So then what I started doing is I, I adopted a technique, right. So I just tried it out and it actually clicked for me. What I did was I Naveli started asking them, Hey, do you have this problem that I'm seeing. I didn't give any, any kind of massage or any kind of like a initial intro pitch or, uh, like how was the weather today and all of those questions, right?

[00:06:37] Because I found all of those irrelevant, right? Uh, the traditional sales pitch, uh, demands me to ask about the customer. I was the better or the golf and all that. But like, you should ask those questions only if you really care. I was asking him, I was little, I may really caring about how's the weather. Of course not how it was an art.

[00:06:55] Why should I even ask the question? So then I transformed the pitch into asking one question, just one question that connects with the problem that I'm solving for them. Right. And not why shouldn't I framed it as a powerful question. And that is exactly where like for a month, even I, I got, uh, if I remember correctly, somewhere close to even 20% connected.

[00:07:20] Uh, and that is because like prospects now we're curious. Okay. Respect my time. You're keeping a chart. And then it also becomes a qualifier as well. Right. Real buyers will give you the answer for that. And some people throw challenges and that is okay. Like if people are challenging you, that is okay, you should have a convincing answer for them.

[00:07:38] And at the end, I used to complete it with selling the meetings, selling 30 minutes that they were going to spend with me. Right. Or with my age where, what is the value that they're going to get to. This is exactly what we are going to do. If you spend 30 minutes, you have this value in your back pocket.

[00:07:57] Right. And who would say more to that? Okay. I'm connecting with a problem and I'm closing with a value and people hardly hardly people who genuinely care about the job really don't say no to that. Like today, if an SDR has got to come from. Tell me that, Hey, Dave, you know what I, I know you're VPC, that's a big one.

[00:08:12] I know you're scaling the team exponentially. And at this point, uh, for, for ramp period, I know ramp period is going to be, uh, like it's, it's just going to be a tremendous problem for you as you're doing this. So our product can help you with this value video, be interested, just spend 30 minutes with us.

[00:08:29] Right. But I would even say sometimes namedrop, uh, will you be interested to spend 30 minutes with Sharon? I understand the real value of how we can solve this. You need not like commit to anything or, uh, or even like be okay for the product they will, but just see if there's enough value for you. Right.

[00:08:50] That is a convincing enough pitch for me. I would give the person in 30 minutes. Right. Uh, versus the standard slab of what the product is all about. Yeah. I mean, you almost don't even need to mention the product at all. Like, Hey, are you open to having a conversation to talk about. How we're helping, you know, XYZ companies solve these problems or are you open to, and learning some things about, you know, kind of calling out the pain that you know, somebody in, in your role in that industry, in that size of company.

[00:09:23] Um, has right. So you're looking for something that's going to like land with them to be open, to having a conversation. People, you know, people know that, yes, it's going to tie back to your product, you know? Um, but if you're leading with that, you know, value statement of like signing them on just having a conversation, um, you're gonna have, you're gonna have much better results.

[00:09:47] All right. I'm saying, yeah. And that's what they really care about as well. Like all of us are here to do. And if it would just get straight to the point with real genuine, right. You cannot click keep it. Uh, so the often one more thing that I recently understood as a VP is that often value is missing to protect, right?

[00:10:07] So the problem of value is misinterpreted. As it can make your pitch sound very. People ask questions that are framed in sort of like being genuinely curious about your buyer. This is what I tell my reps. I hate called skirts. Like I really hate costless, but, but, but the thing is I can help you with a framework.

[00:10:30] I'm not going to give you a call script. I'll give you a framework. So using the framework, if you're able to generate value for your buyer, right, you can be extremely. If you're feeling that, keep doing it again and again, and eventually you will know. Right. Uh, but the problem with God's scopes is that you're just taking one person's opinion and they are imposing it on thousand different people.

[00:10:53] Right. Right. Um, and that often to me, uh, creates cringe-worthy moments. Right. Because you're just like, even if I want to think of all of the personas of women, I cannot think of in a blink. Right. It will take at least. Uh, three to four other people with me to brainstorm and understand what all the personnel's women really care about.

[00:11:15] Right. So if I'm only thinking about one personnel like the VP of sales and building it right, then it might not appeal to a sales manager, right? That is why call scripts are not very agile. That's why. Um, and so, yeah, there's, there's definitely, this is an interesting topic because there's people who live and die by the script.

[00:11:40] Right, right. Um, and then there's other people like yourself that just, uh, are fan of not, not having a script. So. You know, let's, let's, let's dig into that, you know, opinion a bit there. Um, and so how does somebody just getting started? Do they use a script? Do they not use a script? What are your, what, what are your opinions around that of say somebody who's just starting as, you know, in a sales role for either, you know, in sales, new in sales, or even just in a new role.

[00:12:11] Of course. Great question. Yeah. Let me now take you back to their second transition of the joy. From SDR to AE why? I felt incredibly painful and incredibly like, uh, like I would call preceding as well. Right. Because of these called skirts, it was thrown at me. Right. That's why I was like finding it incredibly difficult.

[00:12:33] Right. Um, I'll tell you what, like when an SDR is transforming into an a right, or when it's a new hire as an SDR immediately, they'll have call scripts. They'll have demo talk tracks, they'll have texts and presentations thrown at them. Um, the real challenge with doctors, right? Uh, yeah. As a newbie, it would definitely help me in a way to destroy my creativity.

[00:13:00] Right. And that is what I think, because like you hire, when you're hiring freshers, you will hire people who have, who are incredibly passionate about selling, right. Uh, you hire people. Who are a natural talker who are natural conversation builder, right. Um, and who genuinely care about your customers? You look for all these traits.

[00:13:24] So if all these are checkbox, you should let them operate in their way. Right. For quite a while to even understand. Get a know-how of what their scents are, what is Tyler's like, tell us, you will just be making a flock of sheep. Right? Uh, we'll just go by one God script. And you're never going to know, like, because I've seen Costco from extremely well, right.

[00:13:52] They're performing extremely well break all of a sudden one because buyers were evolving, right? Like seven to eight years back. If I want to know about. The only way for me was to talk to a Salesforce right now. I was looking at, uh, one of the, I forgot the name of the product, but I was looking at one of the products and they're building too.

[00:14:12] Like the founder is actually telling me in a podcast that, uh, they are building a product to end the sales people and all that. Right. Basically the, the, the value of that phone was trying to. Hey, prospects can now self-purchase SAS products, right? So that is what they're building. So it's kind of a complex, uh, marketing driven marketing lead, uh, then sales led, uh, kind of a buyer persona.

[00:14:39] It is extremely important that you create value at every step of your sales process. Right. And cause curves, basically they, they break down. Right. So if new hires need to be coached, right, I would suggest to fail. I would suggest telling them, coaching them very good on the buyer persona, coating them really nicely on your competition.

[00:15:03] Courting them really nicely on the value of your product. Coaching them really nicely on the framework. Like my framework. What do I even mean is, Hey, talk with a problem question. Start with a problem question. Then you can go ahead and. Like have a conversation out of it. Right. Build a conversation out of it and end with a value statement, something like that.

[00:15:22] That could be a framework or talk with getting their consent. So many companies are worried about consent, but I don't believe without consent because like, you're never going to talk if even if they're saying no, so, uh, yeah, that could be a framework. So you can just adopt whatever framework works for you.

[00:15:38] And you can let people be creative with a, be innovative with it instead of just giving them tons and tons of papers and asking them to read or it. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. So I would say I'm, I'm somewhere in the middle, right? Is, is I like scripts when you're getting started. Right. Uh, but I don't like, you know, I like, I like the idea of a framework or some talking points, you know, the challenge.

[00:16:04] You know, kind of forcing somebody to, and this was like early in my sales career, I was like, you got to stick to the script, like stick to the script. Right? Like if you weren't having successes, like, are you sticking to the script? Why aren't you sticking to the script? Right. Like, and so. And then that's an environment that a lot of people are still in.

[00:16:24] Right. And so in any exactly what you said is like, it kills their creativity. Um, like they're less, you know, they're less human and authentic in their interactions with people and the challenge with like relying on a script tomorrow. Right. Is that, um, people are too dynamic. Conversations are too dynamic.

[00:16:46] Um, and you know, depending on what tone somebody is using, or if you're on zoom, what type of body language that they're having could change, how you respond or what question you do or don't ask, or how you asked that conversation. And, you know, it takes. Some experience to adapt and know what works and what doesn't work.

[00:17:09] And sometimes you actually need that experience of what doesn't work like that sting of like saying something or not asking a question or not asking more details about a particular thing, right? Like those experiences where you kind of fall on your face and know you could have done better as a seller.

[00:17:25] Um, you need those to know, like you need to actually experience it. Not somebody just tells you. You need to experience it yourself. So you're like, I'm not going to do that again. Exactly, exactly. Right. Same thing. Like how you count coach negotiation skills. I also like, believe that, okay. Even the best sales trainers of the word, they can't quote somebody on negotiation because it will come naturally.

[00:17:49] Like people should like, for example, where does negotiation come there? Your product value is going to. Right. So the price is also going down. That's how that that's exact reason why somebody should even negotiate on price. Right. I see. No that isn't by even, should negotiate on them. Right. And what do sales trainers or sales coaches?

[00:18:10] They coach people on is, Hey, I've seen like people like grant Cardone, coach something like, Hey, you know what, uh, I would buy a hundred, I will buy a thousand and see that's kind of an overselling. And I'm also seeing people who quote something like, okay, the customer is asking for a 20% discount. You should just start to with increasing your pricing by 20% and then come down to.

[00:18:32] Like, those are crazy, crazy ass ideas. Right? So instead of that, you like, you just got to stick with the value, right? I, for that as a spokesperson, you need to fundamentally believe in the product. If you're not believing in the product. Right. That is exactly why I'm saying negotiation cannot be coached, right?

[00:18:53] Because of sales, people are not believing. Then they're just going to keep throwing me is not right. And the fundamental thing that the very hard thing to do is believing in the product right at once they believe what they're selling, right. Once they're able to see the intrinsic value of the product or the interesting Ottawa, the product creates, they would be the front training people to go out and tell them, Hey, you know what?

[00:19:15] I can create a two X, three X alleyway for you in this much duration. And really, I don't see a point to negotiate. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I had, I had, uh, James, uh, Siwa sales Buckley on recently. Uh, I don't know if you follow James from JB sales, right. And one of his first experiences in SAS. Uh, they had, uh, you know, they had a product, uh, I can't even remember the name of the product.

[00:19:43] It's it's it's it's it was like one of the first tools to integrate your email with Salesforce. Right. Um, and for the first, uh, you know, w when, when they hired a new sales rep, You know, they had this tool that helped solve a lot of problems for salespeople, right. By integrating your email into your CRM.

[00:20:04] Right. Not, not, you know, this is a while back, right. So that's not, you know, such a, um, amazing product today. There's lots of things to do this, but back then it was right there. We're the only one that did it. Right. And so for the first period of time, in that role, they did not let them use the product so that they could firsthand experience the pain.

[00:20:25] Of not having it and then re and then they would let them have it and start to actually experience the benefits firsthand. But the key, like learning there was like actually experiencing what your prospects are firsthand, like, um, prior to like, Knowing how the product works and all the benefits was extremely valuable because then you could get passionate about it.

[00:20:47] Right. Then you could understand the things and the challenges that they're dealing with and how, you know, what the future state of what the product looks like. So I thought that was awesome. And, and, you know, uh, I think. There's the companies could, could do that, you know, and they would be an extreme benefit.

[00:21:05] What are your thoughts? That's a great idea. Right? So I think like many of the, many of the companies are thinking aligned to the bank. Like I think the way seals is going to, well, like five to 10 years down the line there's going to be, that will be function specific or market specific sales. Or market specific sales leaders, like what do we mean by that?

[00:21:29] As right now, like earlier, like 10 years, uh, before right. All people needed to sell what sales coaching. That's all people thought that, okay, if there's a sales coaching, then we can go ahead and sell any product. Right. I think that trend is going to change five to 10 years down the line as it's going to be market specific salespeople.

[00:21:51] Like let's say, for example, if somebody is selling an OKR. Okay, then people will look for OKR, strong salespeople, right? Otherwise they'll just be hearing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All, if I'm selling a FinTech product finance product, right, then I'll be looking for salespeople with a strong finance background, because now I will be able to add more value than the website because I also know the market.

[00:22:20] So I, I need not be a sales person at this point. I can actually be. Kind of a consultant for you. Right. And that is the experience that people will want, like five to 10 years down the line. Right. And that is the exact kind of thing. I think with this example that I can relate to is putting your salespeople in the buyer persona.

[00:22:39] Right. And in this case it was a lot easier because like salespeople are selling to salespeople, right. So it's a lot more easier to fit in the framework. But I think this is the exact way the market is also going to. Like five to 10 years down the line, right. Where there'll be like specific, uh, domain knowledge, right?

[00:22:59] Specific domain knowledge, that large, tremendous amount of value for Salesforce. Uh, and I think companies are just going to look for this unique niche, right? Uh, specifically fast growing companies, right. Um, who can understand the buyer persona enough and can relate to them much more than a personal.

[00:23:19] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they always say, you need to get to know your buyers, right? Hang out where they hang out, read what they read. Like those things are good, but there's, you know, my personal favorite is like, okay, best way to know your prospects. I have a podcast and have conversations with them and ask them any convert, any question you want, write any question you want, you can ask them when you have their attention.

[00:23:42] Right. And then the thing is like, okay, yeah, you're building relationships with them through the podcasts, but like, it's even bigger than that because all of that knowledge is going with you into every other sales conversation that you have thereafter. Um, so tell me a little. Take me to kind a little bit, you know, current, current state, right.

[00:24:04] You just had a baby. Congratulations. Um, but tell me a little bit about the work that you're doing over at wing, man. What you're excited about over there right now. Um, and kind of what maybe people can expect. Sure. How's that. Yeah. Uh, yeah, the biggest thing like 20, 21, it's a lot able to say 20, 21 because it's flu like that.

[00:24:28] Right. Uh, I'm still stuck in 33, uh, and the mindset, uh, but 2031 was a heavy roller coaster year. Um, and, um, I had a baby, uh, and I had my ups and downs. Um, and then, uh, bring them happen. Right. It was an incredible thing. Uh, where I'm currently heading the sales team and we are on an inflection point where like, basically like, um, it does become more like, uh, what do you call like five to six years before?

[00:25:02] Uh, I was also personal customer of women as well. Right. Uh, in charge be like we are using women. Um, and. At that point, it was more like a nice to have product kind of thing that I'd sales leaders like rarely salespeople kind of logging into there. And, uh, CS leaders felt it more like being imposed on them.

[00:25:22] And I rather than them enjoying the tool, but later electron, like when I was leading an ally, I was using gong. Right. That was a customer. Uh, because like the company was using ganglia and then we continue to use that. And that is when I fell in love with the product. Right. Um, and then, uh, saw the value out of it.

[00:25:40] Um, so that, uh, this can actually help me get, uh, like more near to the reality. The problem with being a VP is that you are like too, short-sighted on the important things right now. You always get a macro. Uh, of the market. Right. And that is not okay because like VPAs should always be closer to the market.

[00:26:07] Right. So I saw a recent article that got published, uh, where, um, it was more like 40% of the sales leaders that actually missing quota every year. Right. Uh, that's scary because like 40% of the businesses that are actually missing the corner, because like, if sales leaders are missing the product, then this is actually missing the charisma.

[00:26:26] Right. Um, and that's the. That's an important thing, because like, if you look at it from very, very macro level than the market is getting very, very crowded. So for one category, now we have like X ton of players. Right. And, uh, it, it just, it's, it all boils down to who can skill that in faster and efficiently.

[00:26:50] Right. And move the money faster from your investors to. And this game needs to be like totally crafted and clearly play. Right. And that's exactly when I started realizing that products. Like these are more like, not a nice to have, but I must have product. Right. And like, then I got an opportunity to compete.

[00:27:16] Uh, like gong with a fierce product, like okay. And that's what exactly when I thought like, okay, this, this looks very exciting. Uh, let me just take up the opportunity. And it's been a great ride from there. Um, on a sales team level, we grew a hundred percent, um, in, in headcount and then they have had a phenomenal year, uh, in 2021.

[00:27:35] And we are looking for a much more aspirational year this year as well. Right. Um, To summarize. Uh, what I would say is if we are not updating, uh, our sales tech stack, right. But our sales knowledge, uh, and connected to back to the overall strategy, right. Then eventually, uh, CMC, those are we'll keep getting antiquated.

[00:28:01] Right. Uh, and that is what I understood. Right. Because right now, without a Ganga women, um, I cannot. I'd be closer to the reality of home. Right. Um, because like, it's, it's extremely, I would also say that it's extremely unfair to expect to all the information from your salespeople. They have only limited amount of fame and they're working for what, six to eight hours a day.

[00:28:24] Right. Um, and they're facing a ton of objections, right. And now you're asking them to fill 24 to 48. Imagine the frustration of you as a salesperson, right? Um, like earlier, and some leaders are unable to digest that, uh, people can't fill 44 to 40 fields and they expect people to do it because they did it at the past.

[00:28:46] Right. Uh, just because like, that is why I'm saying, like, if you're not, um, like adopting these technologies eventually, uh, you're going to get antiquated because, um, with the, with the kind of millennial sales. Th the way they think the way they sell is all different. Right? They are too focused on the buyers and, uh, not very much focused on the admin work.

[00:29:07] Right. Which is exactly where, uh, products like Clary, uh, gong, wingman, all of them help. Yeah. Well, this has been awesome, man. I really appreciate you coming on telling your story, dropping some nuggets. Uh, Where's the best place for people to connect with you? Uh, I would say LinkedIn, I'm very active on LinkedIn.

[00:29:31] Right? So whenever, like I met Colin on LinkedIn as well. Uh, right. And, uh, um, that has, I think LinkedIn is going to be the new Facebook, uh, right. Um, it's already the new Facebook, uh, because like, um, People are going to stop writing emails and pour their thoughts out on LinkedIn. Right. Um, that is one way of looking at it.

[00:29:54] And, uh, eventually this will grow from just being a networking platform to a lot more. Right. Um, uh, and that is what I fundamentally believe in as well. And that is the very best place to connect with me. Awesome. Thank you so much. We'll drop your link there in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review.

[00:30:15] Uh, share the show with your friends and really does help us out. And then you can always drop feedback for us. We're listening. You can go over to sales, transformation.fm and drop me a voice DM, and I will get back to you. Hey, you said. That tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation. If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same path, head over to sales, cast.community, and crush your numbers on your livable.

[00:30:41] Yeah. It's free sales cast, doc community. Send me a DM with your best pitch and mention this ad. And I might even give you free access to our best templates.