Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Jan. 3, 2022

#222 S2 Episode 91 - From Being A Buyer To Teaching Sellers How To Use Video with Julie Hansen

This episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell features Julie Hansen, a sales and presentation expert helping people to engage more effectively in the era of virtual meetings. Julie uses the skills she acquired as an actor to help people learn how to use video to their advantage.

From dealing with rejection, to camera skills and body language, Julie will help you improve the way you communicate via video and help you take your selling skills to the next level.

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  • Transitioning from media buying to sales 
  • The selling process should not be uncomfortable for the buyer
  • Sellers are a lot like actors 
  • Your physical state is crucial to how you present yourself
  • Focus on what you want to make the other person feel
  • Master the script and make it your own 
  • Tips for engaging people through virtual interaction
  • Eye contact and breaking the fourth wall
  • Taking advantage of video in the time of virtual selling
  • Do more dialogues, not monologues 
  • Do not expect yourself to be brilliant at the spot


Julie: "I learned that there's a way to sell and be yourself and be effective and talk about product, overcome objections, and still maintain a relationship with the other person."

Collin: "Actors deal with tons of rejection. It can be just soul-crushing. Not very prospect is good fit for you just like not every role is a good fit for you."  

Julie: "There is so much more possible. We just really scratched the surface of what's possible to connect with people through video." 

Julie: What salespeople do is they'll say something and they feel like they're just talking to a black hole. It's like, nobody's there, nobody's listening. And so, what do we do, we rush in and we answer our own question. Or we get nervous and we cut something out and we jump ahead and we're just all flabbergasted. When in fact, that person is still there. Whether you can see them or not, that person is there. Imagining that they're actually listening attentively is a much better visualization for you because that brings out the best in you. 

Julie: We're doing way more monologues than dialogues on virtual and that really has to change. But what we need to understand is that's the mindset people come to the screen with. So you have to break that pattern. You have to very quickly introduce interaction, engage like, right away. 

Julie: "You will improve your engagement 90% if you look at the camera when you ask a question. I guarantee you."

Learn more about Julie in the links below:

Learn more about Collin in the link below: 

Also, you can join our community by checking out If you're a sales professional looking to take your career to greater heights, please visit us at and set a call with Collin and Chris.

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[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell, and this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:24] All right, welcome to another episode of sales transformation. I'm very excited to have Julie Hanson on today. Uh, Julie helps salespeople use video. To build relationships that drive sales she's is the author of three sales books, including look me in the eyes and the founder of the selling on video masterclass.

[00:00:44] In addition to a career in sales leadership, Julie worked as a professional actor appearing in over 50 commercials, films and TV shows, including HBO's sex and the city, Julie, welcome to sales transformation. How are you doing? Oh, thanks Colin. I'm doing great. This is, this is going to be fun. This is a topic that, uh, I love talking about.

[00:01:06] So I'm keen to hear your take on things, dig into your story, the book, um, and maybe even learn a thing or two, maybe you never know open mind. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That's one of the best parts of doing these shows is I get to talk to us and people like you, I get a learn a lot of awesome things. So it's the best part of doing the show by far.

[00:01:26] So to kick things off here, just kind of tell us, like, where did your sales journey start? And maybe if you want to take us back a little bit before that that'd be fine. Um, sure. Well, I started out in my career as a buyer. I was, uh, I bought media radio television for an ad agency. And, uh, so, you know, I sat on the other side of the desk and my favorite part of the day was like talking to sales people and they'd come in and, you know, we go to lunch and, you know, and the rest of the day was like number crunching.

[00:01:59] Stuff. That was not really my forte. Uh, so I thought, gosh, they are having a lot more fun than I am. And I like people and, you know, I, I think I could do this. So I transitioned into sales and, um, it was interesting. It was not quite the seamless experience I anticipated because of course, as a buyer, If you call somebody, they call you immediately back.

[00:02:25] Right. They don't not call you that's for sure. So I was really not prepared for that level of rejection or, uh, disinterest, uh, and it was tough. Um, but that first year in sales, um, I didn't think I was gonna make it. I know my manager didn't think I was gonna make it. He told me later. Um, so it was really, it was really hard for me.

[00:02:47] Um, And so, you know, and I had a lot of sales training. I did, you know, all the courses and, and nothing ever quite really helped me, you know, overcome that inner fear or lack of confidence. And I thought, um, what can I do to get past this, you know, this barrier, because I, I believe in what I'm selling. I like people, I just, you know, I just, I had trouble putting myself out there and finding my voice.

[00:03:15] And, and so I remembered that. Uh, in school, I like to do acting, I thought we knew what we'll take an acting class and just, you know, we've got just getting up in front of people and talking and facing that fear, uh, will get me through this kind of like firewalking except less painful. And it worked, it absolutely worked.

[00:03:34] And, um, I learned so much as an actor. That I used as a sales and I later, uh, used as a sales coach and a sales manager, uh, with other people that worked for them. And, um, so I sold for, for many years and I also continued this path, uh, of an actor. So I had sort of two careers. Um, and I really didn't put the two together other than, you know, I.

[00:04:03] Use the techniques and the skills I learned as an actor in terms of how to prepare, how to, uh, you know, how to step into the role when you don't really feel like it. Right? There's no. Oh, sorry. You don't feel like doing your show tonight. You don't have an understudy, so you're going on. And we all feel like that in sales sometimes.

[00:04:22] Right. But what I love about acting is there's a lot of, there's a methodology, you know, to. To get into that prime, you know, place and to find your voice and to, um, you know, connect with either the material or the person you're talking to. So that was really helpful. And then eventually I put that together and as I was coaching people, they were like, you should write a book.

[00:04:47] And so I wrote my first book act like a sales pro and I started coaching and it turned into a business and. And I'm really focused on more like presentation skills because you know, some of those customer facing events that we deal with in sales and how do we bring the best of ourselves and really connect with our audience and keep them engaged and still be authentic.

[00:05:10] Um, so that's, that was kind of the journey. So it was a very exciting. Interesting path. All right. Lots of, lots of things to dig into here, but the one thing that I'm super curious that you you've mentioned early on is as a buyer, you enjoyed talking to salespeople that is not most buyers would not say that.

[00:05:33] So I'm curious. What about interacting with salespeople? Did you enjoy as a buyer? Then led you to wanting to actually get into sales yourself. Right. Well, you know, they were interesting, right? They, they brought something table. They were usually passionate. I think it also, it was a good. Observation time to see what worked and what didn't.

[00:05:54] I mean, certainly I had some salespeople that I did not enjoy talking to. Right. Yeah. But the good ones who really stood out, like, I didn't feel like I was being sold to no, the ones who I felt like, you know, oh, this is pressure. And, uh, you know, this is uncomfortable. Um, you know, of course I didn't like that.

[00:06:12] And so I, I learned that there's a way to sell and be, you know, yourself and be effective and talk about your product and overcome objections and S and still maintain a relationship with, with the other person. So it was really eye-opening to see the different styles. And so I thought I could fit in there.

[00:06:34] You know, with my style. And I think that that's true. I think there's a wide range of styles and sales and, and, um, you know, there's certain characteristics that tend to work better than others, but there's, as I say, an acting, there's a part for everybody. There's a sale for everybody. Right? There's a buyer that's gonna like you.

[00:06:52] Yeah. I was just very interested in that. I was talking with, um, uh, James Buckley yesterday and, uh, You know, just kind of, you know, parallel here, like you, you as a buyer and then getting into sales, like that's a, this very knowledgeable, uh, not a knowledge that you get through that experience to be an effective seller.

[00:07:09] Right. And he was telling me about one of his first SAS sales jobs where, um, you know, they had a. That was, you know, uh, built on Salesforce. But when you first started in your sales role, you didn't get to use the product because you got to basically experience the pain that the prospects that didn't have the product where it was just like, I was super intrigued by that sort of thing and saw some similarities there.

[00:07:33] Yeah. Absolutely. So, so tell me some of the early days as transitioning from buyer to sales, you said you really struggled a lot before you took the acting class, um, dealing with rejection and, and things like that. What, what were some of the, you know, points some of the low points that were just super challenging where you're maybe questioning, like, I don't know if this is for me.

[00:07:51] Oh gosh. You know, just like calling people, like I just, I struggled to pick up the phone and cold call or a warm call or any call. And looked into his real right. And you know, what I, what I learned as an actor was, um, you know, we're all playing a role. Like I need to sort of remove my, my vulnerable inner, like they're, they're turning me down as a person and I'm worthless.

[00:08:21] And, um, and, and just realize like, this is a role, like we all play. Dozens of roles in our life, whether we're a coach or a teacher, or we're a parent or a sibling, and we're a salesperson and that's a role that I play and it doesn't mean I'm a different person. I just use different skills. And so in this role, I bring the best parts of myself to this role.

[00:08:44] And. Therefore, if I'm, uh, rejected in this role, it doesn't reject me as an entire human being. Right. I'm not so crushed by that. Uh, I also learned as an actor that, um, You know, it just it's, it can be very arbitrary. You know, it's funny that I worked, you know, being afraid of rejection that I went into a field like acting where it's all about rejection.

[00:09:08] I mean, you just, you go on enough auditions. Uh, you get rejected, right? You get rejected a lot. It actually is an app. They are rejecting you, right? It's not your product, it's not your service. They don't like you for that role. Uh, but you have to pick yourself up and you have to dress yourself off and go, okay.

[00:09:29] And you have to just quickly. Um, let things go, right? You, you learn how to show up the best you can deliver the best you can and then let it go. Right. And I think that's a skill that that really is important because if you keep, you know, lugging along all those losses and rejections, it can really start to weigh you down and, and, um, you know, affect your.

[00:09:55] Yeah. Yeah. Never really thought about that. Right. I mean, actors deal with tons of rejection, right? They can be just soul crushing and just the same, you know, not every, prospect's a good fit for you. Just like not every role is a good fit for you and you just have to, you know, do what you need to do dust yourself off, and then you have.

[00:10:16] You know, as an actor, you, you learn that, you know, physically and mentally, you have to prepare for those types of experiences and you have to have to recover from those types of experiences. And, uh, you learn how much your physicality. How you show up and how you process, um, the situation and, um, how mentally to get in your best frame of mind and approach each situation.

[00:10:42] Because, you know, as, as a seller, if you going from one call to the other and you just get a rejection, you pick the phone right up. Uh, and you haven't, you don't have a process to kind of eliminate that negativity. You're just dragging it through. Right. And you starting to get, you know, less and less effective, less and less positive.

[00:11:03] And that's, that's a tough place to be. Yeah. And so tell me what. I know that you mentioned kind of in the acting class, right. Once you took that acting class, you started, you know, be more confident, sort of find your voice, which really helped you in your sales role. Um, talk to me about like, what, you know, what did you do in the acting class that helped feel those things?

[00:11:26] Well, it's what I learned and, and practice, and it's part of the, um, you know, some of them the methodology, which is, um, you know, I always thought actors were like, oh, you know, look at me. They could have been, you know, very narcissistic, but it to be a good actor, you are absolutely not thinking about yourself.

[00:11:44] You are laser-focused on the other person. What you're trying to communicate, what your intention is, how you want them to feel, and that doesn't leave any room for you to, as I say, take your emotional temperature. Like, oh, I'm nervous. Oh, what should I say? If I am so focused on, uh, I want you to feel excited about this.

[00:12:07] Then that brings the right energy to the conversation, right. That, that helps me figure out what to say. That helps me connect with you. And that keeps me from, you know, being in my head like, oh, what should I say here? And what, maybe if I do this, there'll be better. I, you know, if I'm trying to excite somebody or you, you know, I naturally know how to do that.

[00:12:31] Right. And so it's really tapping into some of the, um, you know, some of the, the abilities that we already have and it's knowing how to find those. And so it's really a way to access some of those things. You may not know how to get to like, yeah. I'd like to be in a good mood mood all the time. I mean, we always tell people, smile, you know, before you get on a call and being positive mood, well, how do you do that?

[00:12:55] And what I love about acting, it's very practical. It's like, here's how you do that. You know, you can't possibly be, uh, in a real positive mode. If your body is tired. Like you can't be confident if you're uptight and you're nervous, you have to shake it out. You have to lose some things out. If you go backstage at any play, you know, before actors go on, they're not just sitting there quietly waiting to go on, you know, they're back there.

[00:13:20] They're, they're releasing that, those nervous feelings there, um, you know, keeping, keeping the energy. Um, and it, it really is, uh, it really is important to do that. And the same thing as they're, they're mentally thinking about what is my intention in the scene? How do I want my audience, or how do I want that other scene partner to feel.

[00:13:44] Yeah. And that keeps you from thinking so much about yourself, because that is, um, you know, that's th that's a depth of good acting or good selling, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I think the more you can think of other people, the less you think of yourself, you get out of your own way. Um, yeah. And something else you mentioned, I really.

[00:14:05] Wanted to dig into as well is like, you know, in the acting, how you're just really trying to connect with your role, your lines or your, your audience or the other people. How can sellers. Yeah. You know, there's, uh, you know, part of it is just thinking about, you know, as an actor, certainly you have lines, right.

[00:14:25] Um, but it's not that actors are so good at just reading someone else's lines naturally. Like they go through a pro through a process to go, okay, how do I internalize these lines so that their mind. Right. Um, I have to believe in what I'm saying. I have to make them authentic for me. And so a lot of times with sellers who are, you know, struggling with scripts or value propositions that they have to get out and it's.

[00:14:54] Bad Shakespeare when they say it, you know, it's like, oh, this is not natural. It's like, well, it's not because somebody else wrote it. It doesn't mean you can't say something that you didn't write or that you didn't come up with, but you have to find a way to internalize that. And as an actor, there's a process of like taking those words as we call it, taking them off the page, internalizing them.

[00:15:15] And so, you know, they're just part of your repertoire. I mean, we, we take on a lot of things we didn't create and make them. You know, and so it's not like if this speak and scripts, I mean, luckily as a salesperson, you don't have the director there going up. That's not that wasn't the actual line, you know?

[00:15:33] Yeah. There's no, there's no take to either. Yeah. Right, right. Exactly. So, um, you have more flexibility there, but it, it doesn't mean you can't have some things prepared and feel good about it and be, and deliver them in the moment. In the way that it comes out in the moment. And so that's what I think people don't realize about acting and about scripts and selling a script is.

[00:16:00] Uh, if you go to a show and you see an actor, you know, two nights in a row, those lies will come out. They can come out differently, you know, every night for a year, because it's all based on what's happening, you know, in the moment, what energy that other person is giving you, what the audience is, is bringing, um, what the facial expression on the other person is, is reflecting.

[00:16:23] And so you're always reacting, but having, knowing what you're going to say, knowing your content gives you the freedom to. Um, really connect with that other person. And so I think some people in sales, uh, go to the extreme and like, well, I don't want to memorize anything. It's like, okay. Um, you're expecting yourself to be brilliant on the spot.

[00:16:45] All the time, which is, which is tough and unrealistic, especially virtually when you have a million things to manage, right. Having a couple of things that you've, you know, you feel confident about to deliver and you can deliver naturally and, and maybe a little different every time is, is really a valuable skill.

[00:17:05] Yeah. Yeah. I don't really understand people that are opposed to scripts. Like, you know, script is essential and once you master the script and you can make. Right. Right. And I think that's the piece. When you see, when you hear bad scripts, that's the piece that has been overlooked because most people don't know how to make it their own.

[00:17:23] And it's not something we teach salespeople. I think it's really unrealistic to give salespeople a script and then not teach them how to take a script off the page and deliver it like a natural. Um, and the people, you know, the salespeople do that, you know, God bless them. There's some people that are just naturally good at different things, but most people aren't actors have to learn that they're not born knowing how to do that.

[00:17:46] So, yeah. I mean, there's also, it's also part of the leadership responsibility, right? To, to make your sellers feel confident, comfortable, and empowered enough to have the autonomy, to make the scripts their own. Right, right. And give them the space to do that. The support. Um, yeah, and, and just very few organizations have it set up that way.

[00:18:12] You know, they don't have the time. They don't think it's important. And therefore we get, you know, people out there either there's going well, I can't do it. So they don't do it at all or delivering bad scripts. And neither one of those is necessarily. It's successful. Right? Right. Okay. So tell me about the new book and the masterclass.

[00:18:34] And you know what, just tell me a little bit about why you wrote the book, what people can learn in it, all that. Sure. Well, when the pandemic struck, uh, I saw, you know, we saw everyone jump on video of people that said they were never going to be on video, you know, uh, suddenly on video. And I realized right away that, uh, what we were lacking was the actual skill to speak to a camera.

[00:19:04] And that, that is something that we just sort of skipped over. And I learned as an actor. Um, that there's a, there are techniques to talk to the camera. It's a, it's a new skill set. Uh, for instance, you know, most actors, you start out in theater, right? So you're doing live performance, which is very much like live sales.

[00:19:21] You get energy you're feeding off of, and you can see people's reactions. It's all great. Well, I went to my first audition for a, a little film and I got in there and they're like, you know, we'll just, you know, talk to the camera and. Go. And I was like, you know, a deer in headlights and I'm like, what I do with my hands.

[00:19:39] And I was completely wooden, you know, and they were like, thank you next. Um, and I learned. Actors take on camera skills training to make that transition because it's an entirely different medium. It's like, it's like, of course, why, why would we not need skills for this? Um, so I, I put together all the skills that I learned as an actor to, to work on camera and, uh, put those into a video course called the selling on video masterclass.

[00:20:11] And it really takes people through all those things that you don't intuitively know. And because it's not natural, it's not intuitive. How do you look at the camera? How do you get the camera and read body language? How do you, um, how do you feel authentic in this very artificial space that we're in? How do you connect with the other person?

[00:20:29] How do you use your, your gestures to S to support what you're saying? What are you doing that might be distracting your audience? Um, how do we keep people engaged? Um, because that's a tough one. Virtual audiences are so passive and that was a real problem. So when I did the, the masterclass. As part of the class, I would coach people after they took it and I coached teams all over.

[00:20:53] And I, I worked with probably a thousand salespeople and so I would see how their struggles and all the additional questions they had. Well, what if I'm, what if I have two screens? And what if, um, you know, I've got a big audience and who do I look at? And, uh, so all these questions came up and I thought, okay, I need to write a book about this.

[00:21:10] And so out of that came, um, look me in the eye. Using video to build relationships with customers, partners, and teams, because the, the two things that really stood out this last year. Besides, there's still many basics that are missing good basics on camera, but was how do I, how do I connect with someone virtually?

[00:21:32] Like, we're, we're connected technically, but we're not feeling connected. There's a lot of disconnect. There's, you know, people who turn their camera off because it's. You know, they're not, they don't like the experience. Um, and how do we get people to interact and engage with us on camera? So, so those are the two things that really stood out.

[00:21:52] And so I, um, definitely address those in the book and spend a lot of time on how we can keep people engaged and how we can connect with people because, uh, this is part of our life is we're seeing it's, it's a. You know, I think McKinsey said that 90% of, uh, meetings they anticipate are going to be some kind of hybrid, you know, moving forward, there's going to be at least somebody remote and, uh, we need to make those people feel included right now.

[00:22:20] They feel like second class citizen, citizen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so do you have a few tips on maybe specifically around, I mean, cause video's not going away, right. I think people were a little reluctant to put too much effort into maybe learning these types of skills. But now it's super apparent. Like this is the way this is sticking around.

[00:22:44] There's even people even, let's say things go back to completely normal at some point. Um, there's people that prefer this, this way of doing business. It's, you know, more efficient. They don't have to commute. There's, there's lots of benefits as well. Um, so I'm just curious, like, what are, are a few tips maybe specifically around keeping people engaged?

[00:23:07] Absolutely. Um, yes, and you're right. It's not going anywhere. And in fact, uh, there's a study that's that showed that buyers really prefer this. A lot of buyers prefer the virtual, um, interaction because it's easier for them. So whether we like it or not, Um, we need to raise our skills because like you said, um, people kind of went, okay, I'll turn my video on.

[00:23:29] And that's where we stopped. Right. I got my video on, I know my platform. Well, there, there was so much more possible that is just, we have just really scratched the surface of what's possible to connect with people through video. And if you think about it, um, you've probably been watching TV or a movie where, you know, the actor comes on and suddenly they speak right to you.

[00:23:52] Here that sensation. And you're like, oh my gosh, it's talking to me. Right? Yeah. Uh, and that's a technique called breaking the fourth wall where the actor like looks at the camera, talks to you and it's so compelling. And it's used in a lot of shows of house of cards. And, um, uh, yeah, I can't remember a lot of saving, but saved by the bell going way back.

[00:24:16] Um, And that is the power of making eye contact. We are, we are human beings who are used to connecting, you know, through, through eye contact. And what we're doing as salespeople is we are focusing on their image on the screen. You know, I, you know, your buyer may know that well, if they bothered to making excuse for you at all, which I was a buyer until let me tell you, they're not, they may say, oh, Colin's probably just looking at me on his screen.

[00:24:51] That's logic. Okay. Uh, relationships aren't built on logic. They're built on emotion and what that feels like. Is, you're not interested. You could be reading. I don't, we're not sharing the same space, so I don't have the context to know what you're doing. So if you are not looking at the camera, we are not, we don't have that connection and we have to use that.

[00:25:14] And I know it's difficult. And the advice to just look at the camera. It's not enough because duh, that's how you make eye contact. Right. And that's a skill that I learned as an actor and, and there's, there's a whole process behind that that takes practice. And, and the first thing you have to do is understand, um, when, you know, when you asked about how do we keep people engaged, how do we get them more interactive?

[00:25:41] One of the problems that I hear from salespeople is, you know, gosh, Nobody answers my question. It's just dead silence. It's the, it's the worst feeling, right? Well, the problem is nine times out of 10, is that when somebody, when that seller asked the question, they're looking at their screen and if, if you're not, it's a much different experience than if I look at you and say, so.

[00:26:05] So tell me, what do you think about, um, you know, the, the hybrid situation moving from. Yeah. W w what I'm curious to know though is let's say you're doing everything right as a seller, and you're looking at the camera, but your prospect or whoever your audience is, or they're not. So how do you get them to feel that eye contact through this, you know, virtual way of selling, if they don't, if they are the people on the other end, aren't, you know, kind of following.

[00:26:38] Somewhat basically they're not, they're not. Yeah. So if they are looking, they're going to be looking at their screen. So to them, you are making icon. On their screen, you are, they have eye contact with you. Okay. So you don't need them. Got it. They don't need to be making eye contact with you, but you need to be making eye contact with exactly.

[00:27:02] Yes. We'd like that in a perfect world. Right. But half the time buyers don't even have their camera on. So we have to get comfortable with having this dynamic exchange with someone we can't necessarily see visually there's there's ways to. See them better through our peripheral vision. Um, but we have to get comfortable with that.

[00:27:23] And that is part visualization of seeing that person in the camera, seeing them actually react. If I say something trust, trust that they are there, what happens is what salespeople do is they'll say something and they feel like they're just talking to a black hole. It's like, nobody's there, nobody's listening.

[00:27:43] And so we, what do we do? We rush, we rush in and we answer our own. Ah, right. Or we, or we get nervous and we, we cut something out and we, we jump ahead and we're just all, you know, flabbergasted when in fact that person is still there, whether you can see them or not, that person is there. And imagining that they're actually listening attentively.

[00:28:07] It's a much better, um, visualization for you because that brings out the best in you. If I say something that you know, so based on what you told me, I think that could save you, you know, uh, probably four FTEs a year. I'm going to imagine you're going, huh? As opposed to that's ridiculous because it's a, it's more likely right.

[00:28:31] People are that, you know, unpredictable and that brings out, then I can bring the right energy to the rest of that conversation. So yeah. So what we can do is we can actually take your team and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And that's how we sort of create that, the start of how we create that dynamic conversation.

[00:28:51] When we can't see someone, you have to believe that they are there. You have to see them. They're processing. They heard you. Once you went mute, they heard you and you have to give them enough space to consider what you said. You have to be looking at the camera so they know, yes. She expects an answer because she's looking right at me because even if you have, you know, a dozen people on the call, everyone is having their own personal experience with the camera.

[00:29:20] They're having their own personal experience with. So everybody will feel, you know, that's the benefit of looking at the camera, seeing one person visualizing one person, as opposed to trying to, you know, connect with everybody, which makes everybody feel like God, she looks really scattered and everybody feels like you're focused on them.

[00:29:40] So there's a lot of. Actually good things about the camera that we're not taking advantage of that can, it can really set you apart and make people get off the call and go, wow. That was really, you know, impactful. I really feel good about this. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, some great tips, I think, uh, just to kind of add to that, right.

[00:30:01] Is making sure you have a good ratio of, of asking questions to keep them engaged, right? Yeah. Because if you're just talking at them, they're not going to be paying attention. They're going to be distracted. They're probably going to start doing something else and just be sitting around, waiting for the meeting to be over.

[00:30:19] Right. Right. Well, what I tell people is, um, People go into, when they're in front of a screen, they go into passive receiver mode, especially if you're a salesperson. I think you're going to give me a picture presentation. I don't come prepared to, you know, engage that much. I can tell you from the buyer perspective, it's not my job.

[00:30:39] You're, you're in charge and I'll just sit there and listen, if that's what. If you just talk. So, yeah. Right. But people do, especially, they do it way more virtually because they're nervous. We are doing way more monologues and dialogues on virtual. Um, and that really has to change. But what, what we need to do is understand that that's the mindset people come to the screen with.

[00:31:04] So you have to break that pattern. Um, you have to very quickly introduce interaction engagement right away, because you're training them how you expect them to engage. If you don't stop for, you know, I was on a call the other day and the woman talk for the first 10 minutes and it's like, It just sucked the life out of me.

[00:31:24] It was like, I was going to say something, but now I don't really have the energy. You know, you're reluctant to say something because you're like, well, then she was going to be long, one for another rant and I gotta here. Right. They've trained you that they can talk long stretches of time. So we have to train people.

[00:31:42] And to your point, we all. Um, have those questions ready? That's another thing you can prepare, like don't with everything going on virtually do not expect yourself to be brilliant on the spot. Go. These are some potential questions I'll ask, uh, you know, every couple of minutes, because that's really, you know, the cycle of, uh, you know, that, that quick read of, uh, attention how long people can pay attention.

[00:32:05] You know, a couple of minutes, like the length of a song. You know, it used to be a good rule of thumb. I think it's even shorter now. Uh, but you've got it. You've got to introduce some interaction and mix it up. You know, maybe it's a poll. Maybe it's a question. Maybe it's a, uh, a video. Um, you got to keep things, um, you know, interacting.

[00:32:23] Yeah. And there's tools to, in technology that can help with this as well. I'm a big fan of wing, man. It's a tool that we use. It'll tell you, like, Hey, maybe slow down and take a pause, ask a question. It can serve you up cue cards based on how the conversation is going. Um, you know, or just do your research, set the agenda, have some notes, have some, you know, a bit of a script.

[00:32:43] There's a lot of things that you can do to prepare to these meetings. Um, and there's technology that can help to. Yeah. I just, I feel like we've been very heavily technology. Reliant. We've all, we're all getting like, okay, what's the next tool that can engage people. It's like, hold on. There's a lot of stuff we can do that.

[00:33:01] We're just not doing. Like, you will improve your engagement 90%. If you look at the case. Just buy. When you ask a question, I guarantee you I've seen it. Um, so there's simple things we're just going, oh no, it's gotta be more complicated in that. Well, it's not easy just because it's not complicated. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[00:33:22] Uh, so yes, technology can support us, but we've already got a lot of technology going on. You've got a lot of things to monitor. Um, so what we want to do is learn these skills that allow us to, you know, like an actor who's who's off script. Uh, now I can be very free in the moment cause I've worked on, I know how to make eye contact with you through the camera.

[00:33:43] I'm not thinking, oh, I better look at the camera or I look down, I want to look at, look back at the camera, but what do I do with my hands? Like you have to, these things have to become muscle memory because otherwise you just have one more thing to think about when you're on a virtual call and nobody needs that.

[00:33:57] Right. We're already the director, the actor, the lighting. The technician, the sound engineer, right? The script writer. So these are things we have to do ahead of time so that we can show up and just be present and be our best and think about, you know, going back to that, you know, what an actor thinks about, how do I want you to feel, what am I trying to convey?

[00:34:22] Uh, what am I hearing? How can I relate to that? And I can't do that if I'm thinking of a hundred other things, Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, some of these things are going to be uncomfortable at first, but the more you start practicing them and getting better, uh, you'll get more comfortable and it just become more natural.

[00:34:43] Right. Right. Well, look, you know, presenting LA. Was not natural to most people in the beginning. And we, you know, I call it, you have to cheat for the camera, right? You have to cheat for the camera because it sees things differently than the human eye. And that's what your audience experiences. That's a fact.

[00:35:00] So, uh, we also do that when we're live. Like I may, when I'm presenting live, I probably have to position myself a little differently so that you can see the screen behind me. And I pointed it's awkward. But I learned to do that. Right. I learned to modulate my volume and my tone, depending on how many people are in the room.

[00:35:20] So yes, there are new skills, but we've learned new skills before. Right. And we have we've honed our in-person. For a lifetime now. So we can't expect that these virtual skills are just gonna, you know, be one and done. We're going to go, oh, okay. That's it. And I've learned it and now I'm done. Um, it takes, you know, practice the right way.

[00:35:42] It takes, you know, um, consistent practice. It takes feedback and, um, that's how you're gonna get better. Like anything. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Julie, thanks so much for coming. Tons of great tips in here for folks that are trying to navigate this virtual selling, using video. That's not going away any final thoughts where, you know, where can people get into your world or find the book and all that good stuff.

[00:36:08] Sure, sure. Um, so you can find, which is my website, and I've got tons of blog articles and video tips on a lot of these things about selling a video and virtually, um, and then my new book look me in the eye is on Amazon. Um, so you can get it there and, um, it's. It's really, if you have a question about being on video, it's probably in there because it's there, it explores every topic from lighting to, um, you know, screens to presenting to how your hair to, how do you make eye contact and read body language.

[00:36:46] So, um, check it out. And I think it will help you set you on the right. Awesome. We will drop the links there in the show notes for everybody. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review. Share the show with your friends. We're always listening for your feedback as well. You can go to Virta sales, drop me a voice DM, and I will get back to you.

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