Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Nov. 26, 2021

#201 S2 Episode 70 - Quitting Sales on Day One to Teaching Reps how to have Mic Drop Demos with Mor Assouline

This episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell features Mor Assouline, a three-times sales leader, two-times VP, and Founder of the From Demo to Close Program (FDTC) that teaches AEs how to close fifty plus percent more of sales demos.

Mor learned a valuable lesson from his father that in life and sales you sometimes need to be naïve. Taking blind risks, not overthinking, and pretending you’re seeing things for the first time paved the way to overcoming his fear and initial doubts about sales.

One of the essentials of mic drop demos is tonality, which salespeople don't really have any formal training on. However, when used effectively, you can leverage it and make your demo appear more dramatic and heighten the engagement on the demo.

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01:36 Mor gets a panic in his first sales job and quit it

05:53 Conquering call reluctance and gaining confidence with rejection

13:21 Get over the fear of sales calls by trying it as soon as possible

18:11 Moving to tech sales and launching his sales demo course

20:52 Tonality is the secret to mic drop demos

28:48 Discovery: Active listening versus proactive listening

32:52 Connect with Mor and join FDTC


11:46 "When you're dealing with that type of irate customer or whatever it is and you're able to handle it, you're like, wow, I have newfound confidence."

14:02 "I think the sooner you get on a call, whether you're leading the sales call or whether you're just doing the introduction or whatever it is, you should do it as soon as possible not one month later, two months later."

22:05 "Tonality has a huge impact on mic drop demos because, when you're doing a punchline for a feature, for a price, for whatever it is, you can leverage tonality to make it more dramatic."

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[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell. And this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:24] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. Super pumped up. Guest, I've got more saline. He is a, uh, founder and two times VP of sales. He went from quitting, his first sales job out of college because of fear of sales to becoming a three-time sales leader, two times VP of sales and founder of the, from demo to close program, teaching AEs, how to close 50 plus percent more of doors sales demos.

[00:00:54] We're definitely going to dig into that more. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Good Colin. How's it going by? You? I'm doing good, man. Uh, did I, how did I do on the last name? Yeah, that was a video man. It's pretty good. Yeah, pretty much nailed it. Nailed it on the first try. All right. So, uh, I had a ton of fun, um, you know, meeting with you and everything and, and I'm excited to, you know, kind of talk more about, you know, these mic drop demos.

[00:01:21] Right. Which I think a lot of AEs are probably super curious to learn, like, how the heck do I start closing 50 plus percent more of the demos. But before we get into that, Let's first kind of dig into your story. What was your first sales job that you quit? I'm curious and we'll take it from there. Yeah, it was, uh, it was 11 years ago.

[00:01:41] It was, um, I found it on Craigslist. It was like a legit company, sort of like a living social. Um, so they, you go to restaurants, cold, call them, schedule appointments, and you know, they would buy your coupons and you would get a percentage of the revenue that you acquired, just like living social or like a Groupon or whatever it is.

[00:01:58] Um, so that was, that was the. And the founder was really nice guy. He's like, Hey, you know, first down, like during the interview, he was like, you're killing it. He goes, we, we already have other candidates, but we want you, so we're going to tell other candidates, know if you're interested. And I said, hell yeah, I'm interested.

[00:02:13] He's like, okay, we're going to order you a business course. All right. See you on Monday at 10:00 AM. I said, cool, great pumped. Whatever it is. Got my first real sales, like I did retail sales in college and all that, um, first day on the show. Introduces me to the team. He's like, Hey, by the way, here are your business cards.

[00:02:29] He's like, this is your team. And so far so good. Is there there's the computer and, you know, go ahead and start dialing away, you know, to whatever you do. I'm like, okay. And I just sat there. And the first thing I did, I opened the computer and I just checked up my Hotmail. I was like, all right, I'll just check out my Hotmail.

[00:02:46] I don't know why. It's the first thing I did. I was like, all right, I'll just go through my spam folder. And I was like, holy shit, I can't make a phone call. I'm petrified. Especially with these new hire, like these new, new employees next to me. I'm like, if they're going to judge me, I just super like crazy panic attack.

[00:03:04] Went to the bathroom, literally splash my face. I looked at him and I'm like, oh, this isn't for me. So I went, I walked towards his office and I'm like, Hey man, I'm so sorry. This is not for me. But he's like what? I'm like, yeah, this isn't for me, sales isn't for me. Um, I, I, um, I'm so sorry. He, he just looked.

[00:03:22] It's like, okay. Best of luck. And I walked out and I drove home and, uh, I was still living at home and my dad like yelled at me for quit. He's like, get your job back. And I emailed the guy back. I was like, Hey, uh, my, you know, I'm supposed to come back to you. No response. And I just avoided sales for like two, three years.

[00:03:38] Anything that was remotely sales, I just would either quit, skip, or just like, you know, brush under the rug. Wow. So. Do you do you ha um, clearly you had no idea that making calls was part of the job, huh? I did. I don't know why, like a little water. Like, uh, I, I D and then college, you know, I did some, like, just to get some paid, you know, like some money I did som cold calling and cash advance, but like, I don't know why this was like the official job and like the real job right out of college.

[00:04:15] It was like, you know, it's all official now there's an official stamp on it. And then, um, you know, and then he introduced me, like, when I did cold calling in college, I didn't have anyone in the room. It was just me. So I was like, all right, whatever. But like it was official. Um, and that's, I don't know. It scared the crap out of me.

[00:04:30] I think that's what, like, I think that's what made me scared. I don't know. I just freaked out. I was like, I cannot. And because of that, because I sort of like brushed, brushed it under the rug. Um, just a phone ringing, like not, it took positions in marketing. I was like a marketing manager or whatever, just being in the office and a phone ringing would freak me out.

[00:04:50] Calling a person or a vendor that I've never talked to before. And I would avoid it. I would tell the found I'm like that, wasn't what I was hired for. He's like what? I'm like, I wasn't hired to do this. And so like, I missed a lot of job opportunities and I had like serious PTSD, um, for a telephone. Um, and I just wasted away.

[00:05:08] My, my early twenties I'd wake up like a job popped and then I couldn't hold a job and I would just wake up at like 12 o'clock in the afternoon. Bombing out. My dad would come and he's like, you know, you know, you're still in bed. What the hell is this? And yeah, it was, it wasn't good times. You know, all my friends were like getting, getting to the jobs and moving to New York and I was just doing nothing.

[00:05:27] I'm just kind of depressing. Yeah. That is some severe call reluctance. I mean, you hear of salespeople, you know, like. Feeling like the, the phone weighs a million pounds. They can't pick it up or call reluctance. I mean, it's, it's a real thing. Um, I'm curious. At what point did you sort of like work through that or get over that fear?

[00:05:52] Yeah, it didn't happen for like, until like three, four years afterwards. I think it was like 25 or 26. I remember exact age. And, uh, I was, um, I was at a real estate company, long story short, they were doing sketchy stuff. So I left and I was like, you know, what if I really, I wanted to do real estate at one point, I was like, you know, if I really want to learn real estate investments, I should learn it from the ground up.

[00:06:14] And at the time I was like, you know, the best move, maybe it would be to just join a brokerage. That's good at training and do exactly what they say. My dad told me something really good. Uh, when I was younger, he's like, um, in life, I have to be naive and what he meant by that was like, because I was like, well, he would, he would say like, Hey, why don't you apply here?

[00:06:34] Why don't you apply here and not throw back at him? Like, yeah, if I apply here, this is going to happen. And I know it's going to, I was like, I was being too smart for my own. Good. And he's like, and life be naive. He's like, go take blind risks sometime. Um, don't overanalyze, don't overthink. Pretend that it's your, you're seeing it for the first time.

[00:06:50] Like, that's why ignorance is this sort of bliss? Cause you're doing it for the first time. You're not, you don't know what you don't know and you just kind of do it. That's why being young is awesome. Um, when you're older, you're like, oh, I've been there. Done that. So, no, no, no. Um, and that was his advice and I was like, okay.

[00:07:03] So let me, let me. With a big coming into real estate agent. Um, and so I joined and they were, they have really good training and they were really bullish around cold calling the door knocking. And I remember when I joined, um, they have like, uh, every Monday or every two or whatever it was, they have like a training sales training, objection, training, whatever it is.

[00:07:22] And somebody, I knew like a mutual friend from the community. He's like, Hey, I, uh, you know, we know each other. Oh, you just got your license. I got my license listened to, you know, I don't feel comfortable, cold calling by myself and door knocking. Do you want to do it together? So we're both like, yeah. And so I found an accountability partner, um, who had, you know, a similar hesitancy around cold calling door knocking, but we found ourselves in a position where we had to do it.

[00:07:42] Um, and so every morning we would door knock, we would cold call from 9:00 AM to 11:30 AM and then Dornoch. Cause we had to drive to the neighborhood from 12:00 PM to 2:00 PM and then to help like pay my bills because as a real estate agent, you're, you're independent. You, you close a deal, you make money, you don't, you don't make money.

[00:08:03] Um, I got a job. Doing cold calling, they needed a telemarketer. I was all right. This is really gonna help me my real estate. And it's gonna sort of cross-pollinate. And so for 12 months straight, I was in cold calling door knocking with real estate with, uh, insurance life insurance, car insurance. And I can actually calculate how many calls I made during that Toma period, roughly it was around 72,000 cold calls.

[00:08:27] I used to not have a dialer. And so I tracked, I knew with an auto dial, I make X amount of calls per, per hour, times X, whatever. Um, and to that really got me very comfortable with. Rejection, but it wasn't even, I think cold calling the whole fear of all that is like, you you're, you're, you're like worst own enemy.

[00:08:47] Like you get into your head so much. And that's what I did. I got into my head and I'm playing. What if scenarios before I even pick up the phone? And so I no longer want to pick up the phone cause I've just created a different reality that doesn't exist. Um, and door knocking and cold call. Doing real estate agent life and, uh, insurance time time, um, really got me into a place of doing versus thinking as much.

[00:09:13] Um, so it wasn't like a moment that changed was just like, Compounded moments over time. I mean, it went from like fully being petrified of the phone, uh, cold Colleen PTSD to fully jumping all in and just embracing cold calling door knocking on two jobs. I mean, it was interesting. I'll tell you a crazy story.

[00:09:40] I live in south Florida, Miami. And so, um, my former partner were like, Hey, why don't we door knock, forget like these homes that are a hundred thousand dollars let's door knock on these like multi-million dollar homes. All we need is one. All we need is one sick idea. So we went to a neighborhood here called golden beach with.

[00:09:59] Grant Cardone now lives in Tommy Hilfiger sold his house. It's a really well known neighborhood, really expensive. If you drive a mile over the speed limit, you're getting tickets like that type of neighborhood. And so we go there and we're like, all right, we for sure have a feeling it's going to be like really, um, sensitive for us to door knock.

[00:10:13] So let's go to city hall. So we went to city hall and we, uh, got a solicitation permit from the town manager or a town hall man or whatever it was. Um, so it gives permission to door knock. And so one day we're doing. And we knocked on someone's door. They opened the door and as I'm like not playing, I guess, pitching introduced.

[00:10:32] I'm like, Hey, sir, my name is more so we, and I'm with Keller Williams, blah, blah. He just goes like this the entire time as I'm talking, he's like, like this, he's like, no, no, no, get the fuck out of my ass. I'm like, holy shit. I'm like, shit, you can't door. Knock here. You're not allowed to solicit the TA. And my friend, my partner goes, oh, yes sir.

[00:10:49] Yes. Or you we're going to leave. I'm like, okay. And then he starts following us to our car. He's like, you can, I'm calling the police. I'm like call the police, do whatever you want. Um, he said, I'm calling the police. Don't go anywhere. I'm like, we have a solicitation permit. It's like, yeah, prove it. I pulled it out, showed him the solicitation permit, said bullshit.

[00:11:05] He calls the police. The police tell us to meet them in the, in the city of. Like cause a small city, uh, we go there, we meet the ch the, the chief of police there, the, the city, the town hall, the mayor or whatever it was. And the guy that's frustrated these guys and these guys, you know, the neighbor, like the residents pay top dollar.

[00:11:23] They pay the police a lot of money. And so the police is like, oh, I know you guys like you, I see you door knocking in the morning, keep out of guys. And he just walked out and the guy just like, went crazy. And so I think at that moment, I was like, holy shit. Zero fear of like that. Like what's an example of me stripping my fear and I was like, wow, that actually gave me more way more confidence.

[00:11:45] Right. Cause when you're dealing with that type of erratic irate customer or whatever it is, um, and you're able to handle it, you're like, wow, I have new sound conscious. That was just one of many stories. I mean, I think when you experience, you know, being treated like that in, in, in, in your job or in your role, whatever, whether you, I mean, people get verbally abused on the phone, you know, you call somebody's cell phone and they get upset because you're calling their cell phone.

[00:12:11] Um, yeah, it was a little different in person, obviously. Uh, but when you have that happen and you're like, okay, That's the worst that could happen. Right. So that's already happened now and anything else, you know, between a good positive outcome and in-between their. I can deal with. Right. And, and there's a lot to be said about like leaning into the things that actually make you uncomfortable specif specifically in your sales role, right?

[00:12:39] Whether that's door knocking called Colleen running a demo for the first time. Right. Whatever the case is, whatever it is that. Are uncomfortable with, or not confident in, you need to just lean into it and do it as much as possible. Something that worked well for me is just like, what's the worst that could happen.

[00:12:57] Right. And if I can sort of play in my head like worst case scenario, like that's pretty crazy story. Like dude, chasing you, calling the cops, like telling you, you get Kirsten, you get outta here. That's the worst that can happen. And you're still okay. Then it's a little bit easier to have like some comp muster, some confidence to just, you know, do the action anyway.

[00:13:17] Yeah. I think the feeling of a lot of folks, I mean, it's very different having a fear of sales when you're working for yourself versus working for somebody else where if you're working for somebody else and you're doing the demo for the first time or cold calling for the first time, you feel like you're being judged some way somehow.

[00:13:34] I know, because I've been there. And so you're like, oh wow. They're judging me. They realize like I'm a bad hire. I'm not, you know, I was really confident in interview, but I'm not so confident in like, again, same thing as before you just get into your head. Um, and I think, like you said, the only way to, to like break it is to lean into it aggressively.

[00:13:52] Um, that's why, you know, some companies, their onboarding is like, you know, you got on your first sales call only one month after I think somebody, I mean, like I've done that before. I think the sooner you get on a call, whether you're leading the sales call, whether you're just doing the introduction or whatever.

[00:14:07] You should do it as soon as possible. Uh, not, not one month later, two months later. Yeah. Just get those new experiences out of the way under your belt. Um, get it over with, you know, lean into it happening more often, right. To get comfortable. Right. Uh, you know, uh, get comfortable in uncomfortable situations right.

[00:14:28] In, in. Push you beyond your limits. There's a lot of growth that happens in there both personally and professionally, so many benefits. Um, and, and that even just like flexing that muscle in on in one particular thing has a ripple effect into like everything else that you do, or even just as a person, right.

[00:14:47] All right. So I, I, some, some very interesting stories here from, from quitting this job on day one, I mean, you even had business cards, man. It was official. It was official. Uh, you know, yeah, it was, it was official fish. They ought to be a computer. It was like I had my desk and that was pretty embarrassing moment.

[00:15:06] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, being chased out of a small community by somebody, I didn't even know you had to get a permission to solicit in, in particular, it was like a really like snotty community, like area. And it was, but, so my mistake was like, because it was such a wealthy. The homeowners weren't home.

[00:15:26] They were at work. And so it was only the housekeepers that were home. So I was like, oh, so if the housekeeper's home, we should learn Spanish and ask them where the homeowners are. And so we're like, don't, they all have their, whatever. Yeah. Um, there was another time where my friend knocked on the door. It was his turn to like pitch.

[00:15:41] We were throwing it together. And so he pitched the homeowner and she was in the balcony inside the home. It was huge home. And she's like, no, not interested in, as they were closing the door, I took my, this is a true story. Like, I'm not exaggerating. I took my, my, my leg, my foot, and I put it in the door, like in between the door.

[00:15:56] So she couldn't close it. I'm like one more thing. And then I went in to ask her additional questions and like my friend felt uncomfortable where I felt extremely comfortable. Um, And you and w and the times where you're like getting, you know, the next door that you knock on. You're like, if I did that, then I could totally do this.

[00:16:13] Right. And you just, it's just interesting how it evolved from like complete fear to complete comfort. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty, that's some persistence at a whole nother level, right? Yeah. I got that from my uncle. He did that in London with, uh, uh, insurance. He's like, yeah, I did that one time on, so that popped into my head when it happened.

[00:16:32] Ah, well, I mean, so tell me a little bit about kind of what your sales path career looked like. You know, after these initial, like getting over that cold call door knocking, you know, phone reluctance that was like the F the official start to sales, or like I did say. Like in retail in high school, I sold a hair iron's uh, my friend would throw parties and hotel tickets like it did that.

[00:16:55] Right. But it was two people I knew. Um, so it did cold calling after a full year of doing real estate. Um, usually they say that the first year is the hardest and most people quit after that. Um, you don't make, you don't make money. Really. It's really hard to building pipeline. Um, and so I read an article in the office like APM and I was, I read an article that Redfin bought out some brokerage and a.

[00:17:18] So that deal was Redfin would hire full-time agents to work for them with benefits. And they would essentially have their job description would be what I do, except these agents would have benefits and I'm like, all right, holy shit. I'm up against Redfin's agents. I'm like, yeah. Where am I in, in like the, you know, like the spectrum of successful real estate agent, was I above that?

[00:17:39] I was like, no, I'm not even average. I'm way below average my first year. And so I had a choice. It was like either I joined another brokerage or join a team that I could just piggyback off of their momentum, or I go into commercial real estate, which is very different than residential or. Maybe I should join a company like Redfin, not necessarily real estate, but technology, maybe, maybe I'm in the wrong industry.

[00:18:03] Maybe I should just join tech because it looks like tech is taking over everything, including real estate and it it's, it's pushing me out. Um, and so it wasn't an easy decision. So I spoke to like a bunch of people, long story short, one of my buddies said, Hey, you can always go back into commercial real estate or real estate is always gonna be there.

[00:18:19] Um, but you know, if you feel like there's a. Wave. That's building up in tech and you want to ride it and then ride it. And so that's what I did. So I was like, all right, I guess I'm going to tech and I need to join a startup. And so the first thing I did was go on Craigslist, typed up startup startups, found a startup, a Tel Aviv based company.

[00:18:38] They're looking to exp to open in Miami and I'd be the first hire in the U S so they're a perfect opportunity. And I didn't care what they did. I just want to join a startup. And so I joined after five months, they ran out of funding. They only had about 185. And so I was the highest paid employee, which I wasn't paid that much, but, um, uh, ran out of funding cause they're all right, shit.

[00:18:57] Right. What do I do now? And so I joined another startup. Um, it was. The other tech company funding. Nobody liked the idea. Nobody wanted it. Nobody wanted the product. Um, so went to market. It was just a disaster and flop after five months of that company, that coal company shut down that like tech company shut down.

[00:19:17] I was like, all right. Uh, what do I do now? And so my, my buddy told me, he said, Hey, why don't you join this company called practice Panther? I was like, oh yeah, I know the guy that's that owns it. Like, I kinda know him. I don't want to join the company just in order to find a job. Like, I don't want to burn a bridge and blah, blah, blah.

[00:19:31] He said, okay, I understand it. And like a week and a half later, I was like, you know what, maybe I'll look into it. So I went to meet with the founder, uh, fell in love with it, fell in love with what they do. And then I joined as like the. Employee first sales hire first, everything. Um, and so I use whatever skill set and experience and confidence in sales, cold calling to do my first like real sales demos.

[00:19:51] And he helps me train me along the way. And that was like my real experience into like SAS and sales demos and all that crap. Uh, and then since then I've been doing it ever since then, right? Like, so after four years of that company, Um, it got acquired. Uh, I became VP of sales six months into the job three years after that it was acquired.

[00:20:08] Um, I did consulting for about a year and then I joined a company called Kendo in January, 2020 is a, uh, early stage sales. Our go to market became VP of sales, um, hired train grew. I'm no longer there. And I launched a sales demo. For AEs training them on how to close 50 plus percent of the sales demo. So it feels, it feels like a long, uh, sort of, uh, career path ish, but it doesn't as I'm like saying it out.

[00:20:37] Yeah. Yeah. And so where did you, what are some things that you sort of discovered, you know, in the demo process that you needed to work on or get better at to have, you know, what you like to say, these mic dropped demos? Tell me a little bit more about that. Yes. I think tonality is one of those things that, um, there's not like a formal training on, um, and.

[00:21:00] Have somebody call you out on it or you pit you're able to pay attention. You know, you can pay your own attention. You're like, oh wow. I sound like a robot. Um, so tonality when I was doing cold calling and all that tonality was a huge thing. At the time when I was in real estate, a Wolf of wall street came out and so tenacity was the whole thing.

[00:21:19] Uh, me and my friends like, oh, it's all about tonality. And so we saw like results, but, um, and so I was like, all right, tonalities clearly, um, a skillset that if you develop well enough that you can have Mike drop demos. So like, for example, I always tell this to people I'm like, I want you to imagine the word tiny.

[00:21:38] For a minute and then describe tiny to me with your body language, and then say the word tiny as you're describing tiny whereby language. And so every time I ask this to someone. Piney. I was like, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So notice how their voice also shrunk tiny. He wants it. Let's do the opposite. Like, are we going to up the word huge for me using your body language and then say the word huge as you're doing it huge, like the words expands.

[00:22:06] And so tonality has a huge impact on, on mic drop demos, because when you're doing a punchline for a feature for a price for whatever it is, you can leverage tonality to make it more dramatic. And that sort of. Like, you know, like when, when a song has like a. Like it builds up and builds up and then has a drop.

[00:22:26] So it's the same thing. It's all sort of like tonality rhythm. Yeah. And you hear people talk about, you know, tonality when making cold calls, but you rarely hear people talking about tonality in the demo. Um, which, which I don't know why, but, uh, but it makes a lot of sense. And you know, something that I notice a lot in, in, in demos, uh, or, you know, sellers, you know, struggle with in demos is a lot of times they go on these sorts of.

[00:22:52] Press play monologue, just like talking a lot and it's not super interactive. What are your thoughts on, on that? And I'd love to hear what you think. And it happens to be some times, right? Like when I used to get on demos, I would ask the, the, the problem, like, Hey, have you watched the movie ACE Ventura?

[00:23:12] And if you're old enough to feel like, yeah, of course I love a sprinter. I'm like, you know, the scene where we're, uh, Jim Carey like takes deep breath and then just spews a bunch of information until his last breath. So like, yeah. I'm like, all right, I tend to be ACE Ventura. And so cut me off. So I had a bad habit of, of going on monologue.

[00:23:29] And I thought it was really good in the beginning. Cause I was like, oh my God, tonality and energy and enthusiasm. But like the person loses you. It's just, you get lost in, in, in the hype. Um, so I'm heavy on making sure like that. There's a lot of engagement on the demo and stopping yourself. So if you find yourself.

[00:23:48] Just blur. Blurbing out like a bunch of information. Call yourself out. Like I've done it on demos. I was like, after a feature talk track, I was like, whoa, that sounded like an infomercial. I'm so sorry. Let me, let me backtrack a little bit. And then like I'll pause and ask questions. Um, yeah, I think feature dumping is a disaster.

[00:24:03] Yeah. And sometimes it's just even just being, uh, aware. That you can. I think, I think a lot of people tend to have that habit because they can just get comfortable and get in a groove or get into, you know, emotion where they're just, you know, talking and going. And then they get to a certain point where they're like, I'm really tired of hearing myself talk.

[00:24:21] So they must be tired of hearing me talk. Right. And so, I mean, how do, how does this, how does a seller like make a demo. More of a conversation than just a few ways. Um, I mean, one of the ways is sort of a preemptive. Post a demo scenario where they would listen to the recordings. And then the second thing is they would look at data.

[00:24:46] So like I love gong and everything that it does. And should there's other software that doesn't want to go on where you can see talk time between the rep and the prospect. And so that's one thing to pay attention to. So if you're talking, if your talk time is like 64% and the prospect is a lot less than your goal is to increase that or at least balancing.

[00:25:03] To be like 50, 50 or whatever it is maybe even 60, 40 prospect. Um, and so having that in the back of your mind as you're doing the demo helps, um, and then w w watching the recordings allows you to be like, holy shit. That's how I sound. And that's how it's going to be like. And so you're way more aware as you're doing demos.

[00:25:21] Um, but if you're on the demo and you're like, all right, I'm talking too much, how do I change it up and make it more conversational? I mean, you should have a list of, I mean, you should know, uh, Uh, continuous discovery questions that you, that you plan on asking sometimes it just comes up naturally, but like a continuous discovery question, be like, Hey, based on what it showed you, how does that align to X?

[00:25:43] Or you mentioned earlier on the call that you're using this feature in this way. Um, thoughts on this, right? Like, so stopping the. The monologue with questions because an open-ended questions allows the prospect to talk a lot more. If you're asking a yes or no question, you're only going to get a yes or no, but if you're asking the open-ended questions, then the prospect just opens up.

[00:26:06] Um, and then. It's something that happened. Like my, uh, my course where it's like, Hey, one of the best ways to create engagement is we're not doing it now because we're not on zoom, but most of the time you're on a zoom. You're sharing your software. Your, your screen is like this, that prospect screen is like this.

[00:26:23] You're no longer talking about whatever's on the screen. You're maybe sort of digressing a little bit. And so the mistake that EAs make is they stay on screen when they should stop screen share, and just show face to face. Um, yeah, that's a great way to like, just pattern, interrupt and create major engagement.

[00:26:39] Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Um, I know it's such an easy thing to forget that like, oh, we're still looking at the screen, but it'd be much more engaging if they can get a. Picture of you and your body language and your camera, your virtual eye contact. Right? Uh, which, I mean, that's another big mistake I see in a lot of people on demos is they don't look at the camera.

[00:27:06] You know, they're looking off to the side. People think maybe you're multitask and they don't know what you're doing, but it feels like you're not paying attention to them. Right. And people want. I want to feel like you're the most important thing in that moment. And it's in, you know, in a virtual environment and on a demo and all that it's it's can be hard to pull off.

[00:27:26] And, uh, I think a lot of sellers tend to struggle that, so I love the idea of stop the screen share and kind of refocus the conversation, reframe that sort of, you know, uh, Camera. Okay. You can also minimize like, um, minimize the actual, like small image of you and the prospect and put it like right under the webcam, like right here.

[00:27:50] Um, and then maybe put like a little sticky note or something to signify, like hates here. So you're always defaulting to whatever that area. Yeah, it's, it's hard. I mean, I do podcasts like this. I go on podcasts a lot. I have lots of zoom conversations, like eight to 10 a day. And even for me who I'm doing it everyday, all day long, sometimes I forget to look at the camera.

[00:28:14] I'm not looking at the camera right now. I'm looking straight at your face. That's. Right, which is just, it's just like a natural instinct that I want to look at you when I'm talking, but I really need to be looking at the Canberra. Yeah. Um, and so it can be challenging, but the more you, I think you can kind of focus or refocus on that.

[00:28:31] You're going to have more success in those virtual conversations. Um, Anything else, anything else that we haven't kind of touched on that you think is important to bring up to, you know, close 50% more of your demos? Yeah, I don't think so. Like, I don't think it's one thing. One skill that if you master this skill, your demo rate is going to go through the roof.

[00:28:53] I think that's like a concoction, like a cocktail of skills. Um, tonality is definitely one of them. Discovery's probably the most important part. Um, I think like, you know, I listened to sales demos, I coach AEs. Um, they're sending me their recordings and I listened to it and they're not spending enough time on discovery.

[00:29:12] Um, I'll give you like a perfect scenario. Um, one of the things people say is like, oh, you should be happy. Should I have active listening as a skill? I call bullshit. Like active listening is important, but it's such a like surface level skillset. What you need is like proactive listening, where you're reading in between the lines.

[00:29:29] So let's look and experiment. Like I do this with, uh, some of the people I trained, um, ask me how my day was. How was your day more it's okay. What is like reading between the lines? What is the sentiment of my. So if I wasn't reading in between the lines, I would be like, I would just check that box. Okay. I asked that question, let's go to the next question or next step of the process.

[00:29:54] Right. But reading in between the lines, there is like, oh, I feel like there was a little hesitation. Like, was there something that happened in your, your day that was, you know, less than desirable? Like tell me more about that. Yeah. So exactly like, so you read between the lines, you called it out. Like you saw that.

[00:30:07] I didn't explicitly say that my dad wasn't. But you just felt it or heard it or whatever it is. So I don't think AEs are doing that enough. And so if they're getting on a call with a prospect, the last, like, this is a true story last cross, like, Hey, what's the reason you're looking to leave the competitor.

[00:30:20] And the prospect will say, oh, well, every time I reach out to customer support, they're giving us the run around. They're not, they're taking too long to answer. And so AEs making note, all right, they want really good customer support. They want fast response. Sure. That may be true, but that's not what they do.

[00:30:37] They said every time we reach out to customer support, they give us Bubba. So a proactive listener says, hold on, wait a minute. Why are they having to reach out to customer support all the time, to the point where it's causing them to look for another solution, let's ask, Hey prospect. Out of curiosity, you mentioned that you mentioned that you always have to reach out to.

[00:30:55] Why do you always have to reach out to customer support and many times what you'll get is, oh, well, we're trying to do XYZ feature. And then that's where you're unraveling, whatever the pinpoint really is. And so by reading in between the lines and proactively listening, you're able to discover what the prospect really wants.

[00:31:11] And so that comes on discovery and that discovery session doesn't start only in the beginning of the call. It lasts you out the call. So if there, if you're asking them about feedback at one point throughout the demo, um, and they give you. Very vague sort of broad response, dig deeper, pay attention to what they're not explicitly telling you.

[00:31:29] Uh, and that just comes with practice and being curious and listening proactively listening. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Uh, I love those examples of the difference of like active listening to like proactive listening, right. Because a lot of assumptions. Can be made when you're just active listening. Um, and I have to tell you, when you first said, you call bullshit on that.

[00:31:50] I was like, um, this might be something we, we disagree on, but you made a great case in point and, and I'm definitely I'm bought in on that, um, idea there. And it makes a lot of sense. Right? So those are some great examples. So look for opportunities where you can go deeper or be more curious, or even just read somebody's body language or tone.

[00:32:09] That there's, there's more, there's more there than just that surface level response. Right. Um, and, and some, I mean, that's where some huge. Discovery can happen. That's going to arm you with the information that you need to crush the demo and to close the deal. Right. I mean, it's not that they're looking for faster support.

[00:32:29] Like maybe there's a key feature that they got sold on that doesn't work. And that's something that you guys, you know, your product, is it excels at? Right? Um, so, so there's a lot that can be, you know, In through having honing that skill so more, I know that you got something special for everybody who tuned in today.

[00:32:50] Um, let people know where they can find it, how they can take advantage of what you prepared for them today. Yeah, for sure. So I released a chorus for AEs or aspiring A's, lot of STRs want to become A's. And so this would be the perfect opportunity. It's called a from demo to close F DTC. Um, and so essentially anyone listening to.

[00:33:08] This podcast, um, at sales casts will get a 15% discount across the board. Um, so the discount code is sales cast. I'll tell you where to find it. Go to demo, to That's the landing page. You click on any one of those call to actions. Click on that. It'll take you to the actual page where you can purchase the, of the course.

[00:33:26] When you go purchase it, you'll have an option for a discount code sales cast, one word lowercase. You get 15%. Awesome. We're going to drop the link and the discount code there in the show notes for everybody more. Thanks so much for coming on today. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends.

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