Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Nov. 11, 2021

#191 S2 Episode 60 - From Busboy to Scaling 0-30M ARR with Four Sales Reps

This episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell features Ryan Staley, Founder and CEO of Whale Boss. Getting his business from nothing to 30 million with just 4 sales reps and no marketing is a feat in itself.

Ryan shares how he did it by applying the Perfect Customer Profile, creating a referral operating system, and by following his 4-P Framework: Pathways, Peaks, Process and Persuasion.

He gives tips on creating the confidence to ask for referrals and shares his “Dream 100” exercise. In his experience, refining the pipeline into the most promising leads and focusing on them produces massive results.

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01:35 Working as a busboy and entering sales by selling knives

05:25 Initially sucking at sales and how Ryan reached President's Club

11:01 Applying the Perfect Customer Profile: Going from 0 to 30M with just 4 reps

18:09 2x your revenue: 2x your deal size or halve the time it takes to close a deal

20:50 Update quarterly your Dream 100 and have a balanced portfolio

23:09 Referral operating system: Increase deal size in half the time

26:18 Four-step framework: Pathways, Peaks, Process and Persuasion

33:51 Connect with Ryan


10:36 "Information is aggressively accelerating that things change so fast that, what you take is something that's just like brushing your teeth or putting on deodorant, is life-changing to someone else who specialized in a different area."

13:36 "If you are listening and you are serious about doubling the deal size for your business, you want to write this down now. Okay, so it's called the Perfect Customer Profile...  it's like if your ICP had a baby with Pareto's principle, the 80-20 rule where 20% of what you do creates 80% of your results."

15:27 "You look at the five biggest clients that you've closed, the five fastest clients that you've closed, and the five biggest losses that you've had. And then, what you do is you look at it and you look at the ownership structure across those, the functional areas, the biggest result that you created for them."


24:38 "Create a referral operating system. And that referral is beautiful because it helps you close deals in half the amount of time. And the deal size is, once again, it's 125, 150%, and that's just by leveraging all the investments you've already made and then systemizing it so you continually get warm leads."

29:14 "90% of what we do as adults, I think it's once you get past the age of 30, is hardwired and based in our subconscious. So it's tapping into that subconscious and aligning that the right way and saying the right thing at the right time."

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[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell. And this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:25] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation today. I'm very excited for the guest. I've got a fantastic guest for you. I had the pleasure of going on his show recently. I've got Ryan Staley coming on today. He's the founder and CEO of Wale selling system. Uh, Ryan. Founders and revenue leaders implement a seven to eight figure sales system in three months based on the principles that grew a business unit from zero to 30 million ARR while adding 25 million plus in capital revenue with only four sales.

[00:01:01] Without lead generation. Wow. Right. Super pumped to have you on today and break that down for us. Um, thanks so much for coming on. Yeah, man. Um, well, it was awesome having you on my show and you kind of hit it off. And so yeah, I'm really looking forward to the, chopping it up with. I know we, uh, we, before we hit the record, we were just having too much fun.

[00:01:22] I was like, wow, we gotta, we gotta make this thing or we're just gonna get some stuff done, right? Yeah. I'm just going to sit here, shooting the shit all day. Uh, awesome, man. So tell me, where did your sales journey start, dude? So I can start, I get home and go way back machine. I'm not going to give like a 20 minute monologue on it, but here here's a, it started all the way back when I was a bus.

[00:01:46] And I was literally driving home after like busing tables. And I saw this sign that said, you know, apply within $16 and 95 cents an hour. And this was like when minimum wage was like 4 75, so I'm not a hundred years old, but, but that's what it was at the time. And so I went in and they, they had this presentation, this presentation was amazing.

[00:02:09] You know, I started asking these questions. I wore my dad's business suit and I think I had his briefcase. So probably looked ridiculous at the time. And the other thing I was, I was rocking, I think it was like 15 or 16, like right in that area, you know? Th the puberty level where I'm breaking out with acne, have the oily skin from working at the restaurant.

[00:02:28] And so, um, I started asking questions. They were like, Hey, you know, like, sir, like you were asking great questions. We want to talk to you. And so they pulled me in this separate room. So I go into this separate room and this guy is talking through and he's like, yeah, basically all you have to do is sell these nights.

[00:02:44] And you could sell them to your parents' friends and I'm like, that's easy. That's gold. Right? What could go wrong? What could go wrong and sell the knives to your parents' friends? So I'm so excited. I have the minivan with woodgrain siding, throw it in reverse after. Back into a pole, right back into a pole by sheer excitement for sales back it into a poem, like, all right, sweet.

[00:03:05] I'm not going to make, you know, 3 75 an hour plus tips and making 60, 95 an hour. So I drive all the way home and I tell my parents like, how did it go? What happened? I'm like, I got offered a job right on the spot. They're like, that's amazing. What is it? And I'm like, I be selling knives for Cutco to your friends.

[00:03:21] And they're like, that's a terrible idea. There's no way in hell you're going to do that. You're not going to bother our friends. Cause they're like, well, who are you going to sell it to them? Like your friends I'll just hit them up all day long. They're like, no, no, that's, that's not going to work. So needless to say, I had visions of making thousands and thousands of dollars over the summer.

[00:03:38] And instead I had to pay off, I think it was like an $800 bill on the minivan with wood grain siding. And so that was a hard learning experience, but that wet the appetite. Started off to the inside sales. Um, and like a boiler room type environment shifted a complex sales. Uh, went through that journey then became a leader.

[00:03:56] And now I run my own company to help companies, or I should say like SAS, founders or services, founder scale. Wow. So you never got to actually sell the Cutco knives? Never. I, you know, my family did call me I'm Al Bundy though, because, uh, my first sales job was selling shoes at a little store called Lebos, which was a character building to say the least.

[00:04:21] And then, you know, I had a lot of crud jobs. I had yellow page advertising. Um, once again, I'm not a hundred in my early forties. Um, but for Northwestern university, Killed it there. Then when it inside sales, the boiler room and that was fun. And then I just kept progressing. Yeah. So I'm super curious of how you, it from like boiler room, you know, transactional sales to more complex sales.

[00:04:45] Can you walk me through kind of that journey and how challenging that was? Cause I think there's a lot of people that are trying to go from like selling a very highly transactional product, um, to getting to, you know, more complex, more enterprise type sales. Yeah. No, and it's a great question. I see so much, you know, in LinkedIn land about BDRs and SDRs, and they have the hardest jobs in the world.

[00:05:11] And I'm like, I, I is definitely a hard job. It's a hard job in a different way. As you escalate though, it's a hard job in terms of the quantity of nos that you get. And B just sheer grit. You have to have the power through that. So, um, what happened was, dude, here's what I would tell you. I sucked at every sales job, but I initially.

[00:05:30] I was never just like automatic, you know, like the guy who who'd walked through bread out of his train class, start closing deals. Pointing at the hot ladies in the office and, you know, pretending like I owned it, that wasn't me, man. I was always like a late bloomer. I, um, I always sucked initially. And then what happened is I persevered through like the inside sales job.

[00:05:50] Like I was the last one in my training class to sell something, but then I was number one in north America. Right. So then I parlayed that into. Uh, working for an outside sales organization, sign managed services to mid-market companies. And then what happened there is once again, I didn't sell a deal for the first nine months.

[00:06:10] Um, then killed it months, 9, 10, 11, and 12 next year made president's club and then kept ramping up. Got equity, um, as a rep and we had a little exit there, so that was pretty cool. Um, and so then what happened from there is I parlayed that into larger sales. Cause I, even though I was a mid-market rep, I got to the point where I was selling, I managed to scrape in some larger deals in.

[00:06:38] You know, my, my territory. And so that I got a deal. That was, I think it was like they end up spending $200,000 a month, um, with us. And then eventually I parlayed that into management and then I parlayed that into creating an enterprise. Which we grew from zero to 30 million and AR with only four salespeople.

[00:06:56] So, yeah, man. So that's my jam. That's how it works. Wow. So I'm curious to learn a little bit, like you said, you're a late bloomer in some of these, but then just totally crushed it. Right. And why, why do you think that is? Right. So you embrace the fact that you sucked at certain points, which I love that, um, persevered to.

[00:07:14] Being very successful being number one in north America, you know, and then, you know, continuing sort of that sort of track record. What is it about the way that you sell, uh, that you think. You know, that kind of was the common theme for you. Yeah. I think the comment that, the big reason why is I was, I never worked for like a really large company.

[00:07:36] I always worked for an unknown brand. So, you know, in terms of like setting your team up to succeed, like, I was never really set up to succeed that well, um, I was like, let's say a, and I'm a football fan, so it's like the. Like, no matter what quarterback they threw in there for awhile, it doesn't matter.

[00:07:56] It's still rough. They got system fields now, which definitely helps, but you know, they wouldn't put anybody around them. They, and so what I meant by that is I, and I'm not a pro quarterback by any means, but like the definition of training and development was like, you have one week of training in that say, go figure it out on your own.

[00:08:14] So like I worked now that I think of it probably my entire career in a resource constrained environment. And I had turnover at the management level. So it gave me a tremendous amount of tenacity that I needed to execute on, but I also had to figure it out like, but I didn't figure it out on my own. I was dead.

[00:08:31] Cause there wasn't like a path to look to. So, um, so I would say that was the big reason why, um, however, when I started modeling people in other cities that perform really well, then that opened up my eyes to kind of the easy path. And that's what I'm trying to help founders do right now. Yeah. Wow. I love that.

[00:08:51] So you often hear about reps, like, uh, we've got, you know, crappy training resources and that's true in a lot of sales organizations, but that can actually work in your favor, right? Because like you have to figure things out. Figure things out or fail or be out of a job. Right. And when your back's up against the wall, I mean kind of like yourself, I perform well under pressure with limited resources.

[00:09:16] Um, and it's actually kind of refreshing to have sort of your own autonomy to like figure out the path rather than like, Hey, you've got to stick on this path. That's already predetermined of, you know, the path to success. Yeah. I agree, man. It's, it's tough. And like, even if you look at the failure rates, Sales wraps.

[00:09:35] It's like 67% don't even hit quarter, you know, like that's insane. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, you know, the other thing is, so like I see, I see founders and companies trying to do the same thing because they've been successful at other parts of their business or life. And so they just try and, uh, struggle through it.

[00:09:58] And a lot of times they're successful, but then they kind of hit a wall. Where it's like either they, they can't work more than the 60 hours a week, their workout, seven hours a week. They can't be the only person selling their solution. So it's. How do you expand from there? You know, kind of the easy way.

[00:10:14] And so a lot of times there's core principles that you would take for granted. And I take for granted because I've been doing it for 20 years. That is like, it's like magic mushrooms to them. Right. I don't even know where I came up with magic mushrooms, but it's like, it's like some psychedelic shit that they're looking at.

[00:10:29] Right. You know, like, they're like, oh my God, I've never seen that before. Where did that come from? You know? So it just shows. How information is, is aggressively accelerating. That things changed so fast. That what you take is something that's just like brushing your teeth or putting on deodorant is like life-changing to someone else who specialized in.

[00:10:53] Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so tell me a little bit about this. You know, what I read in your bio, because I know there's people at this point that are like, how the heck did this do do that? Right? Um, zero to 30 million. With four sales reps and no lead generation. Right, right. Yeah. We had no lead generation, no marketing.

[00:11:16] We had like a marketing guy that helped with like PowerPoint presentations and, you know, if we did events, um, we had two SDRs. And so, yeah. And so when I started, we had no team, no playbooks, no nothing really. Um, which is you're used to that. That was that's your jam. Nothing. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't mean it's not hard though, right?

[00:11:38] At first. Um, cause like, so that started, it was so funny. It was born out of a demotion because what happened was I was just, just grinding my way through it and I was getting results, but I was kind of addicted to around. And so my team really didn't want to work for me anymore, which you know, is hard to hear.

[00:11:57] But like the founder kept smashing the more buttons. Like you gotta do more, you gotta do more. You got to do more. So I try to keep up with it and now work it. And as a result, I CA I pressed the pressure on me, got pressed down to my team and my team didn't respond well to that. So like, Hey, we're going to have you basically, you're really good at big deals.

[00:12:18] And we've noticed that. So we want you to focus on that and basically help is kind of like an overlaid. Wraps manager under this new guy. And so I was like, okay, you know, like I was like maybe 10 seconds away from like, quitting, like, like it was, it was, cause it literally took me to the restaurant where I had my wedding reception at and my boss came to town and told me this and, and like no warning or like no warnings in advance.

[00:12:44] So it was basically like getting cold. Right? Yeah. And so I went through that man and, and, but the beautiful thing that came out of it is that. The, the, the results that we got is awesome. Like we had from my team perspective, like a sales rep who was an assistant, um, never any B2B sales experience ended up making, I think it was like 600 grand in a couple of years, uh, under some of the stuff that we developed.

[00:13:09] And then at the same time, you know, that led the foundation for that ARR that we got led to an exit, um, private equity exit. And so that was really cool. And then. We got a cold deal from Amazon whole foods like that doesn't happen very often for. 20 million plus, you know, so like those were the things, but along the way with that journey, like what I use to do that, and I want you to, if, if you are listening and you are serious about like doubling the deal size for your business, you want to write this down now.

[00:13:41] Okay. So it's, it's called the perfect customer profile. And I talked about it at the chief revenue officer school and the enterprise sales school for pavilion taught about 500 sales leaders on enterprise sales. And this is one of the fans that I got the most positive feedback was a cool. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I've been waiting for us to get to this point.

[00:14:00] Okay, cool. So, so basically, like, if you want to think about it, there's, there's two ways you can think about it. It'd be kind of like, if you were a pro-team like now we're talking about football, so let's say you're a protein. And a lot of times during the draft, the team will have first round picks, second round picks, third round fit.

[00:14:17] I think they go up to seven. Now, maybe it was last, maybe six. So basically a lot of what people don't take the time, and this is like a high leverage activity, but it's essentially the equivalent of when you're, when you're a draft, you have all first round draft picks. They go into your pipeline. So you don't have the second round picks.

[00:14:36] The third round picks, the fourth round picks all the way to six is they're off. It's like seven first round draft picks. Right. And so how do get a little bit deeper is basically what it is is, is it's looking at what I call. Most people are familiar with ICP. You've heard of ICP, right? Yep. Ideal customer profile for those that aren't in the sales, marketing and swag world.

[00:14:57] Um, so you got that and then it it's like if that your ICP had a baby. With parades principle, the 80 20 rule, right? Where 20% of what you do creates 80% of your results. And so I stumbled across this when I saw a rep leveraging this and that I applied it. And what basically it is, is you take, you look at your deals and, and this, you could be a $1 million company and still do this.

[00:15:23] Okay. So don't, don't think because you're smaller, you can't, but you look at the five biggest clients that you've seen. The five fastest clients that you've closed and the five biggest losses that you've had. Right. And then what you do is you look at it and you look at the ownership structure across those, the functional areas, the biggest result that you created for them.

[00:15:46] Um, and, and basically apply those principles. And there's probably another eight or nine. Variables you look at, but, but those are the core elements and the size of the problem. You've solved breaking down into a quantity. Then I'll give you an example. So when I did this, this is a core exercise to do with one of my clients.

[00:16:05] Basically what we found is there was his biggest deal size was this opportunity where they essentially had, um, they were charging. And I'm not going to say the name of the company there, but they were charging, let's say. 10 grand a month or something like that. Right? Not even 10 Grantham. I was way less than that.

[00:16:24] So maybe like five grand a month. And it was like two grand a month. It was so super low. Right. But the size of the problem that they were solving alone by displacing an audit firm, that audited inventory was $250,000. So basically they texted on a cost replacement alone. Uh, and then on a top of it, they had all the benefits of the solution.

[00:16:48] That had a benefit of hundreds of thousands of dollars as well as hundreds and hundreds of hours. So my whole point and getting like super detailed on this, the reason why is like, if he just put all customers in his pipeline like that, there's two things that'll happen. He could like, basically.

[00:17:06] Quadruple his deal size instantly without changing his team without changing a sales process just by targeting. And at the same time, his deals will close way faster because the ROI and the return on basically work is ridiculous. Versus treating everybody else the same. Does that make sense, Collin? Yeah.

[00:17:27] So what I hear you saying here is really going deep on figuring out the value and the ROI of your best customers, big and based on getting that data, you can start to assess like, are you pricing? Are you pricing well or not? Right in that scenario, that client clearly could be charging way more. For w ma then they were for what they were doing.

[00:17:52] Right. And then from there you have your PCP, right. Your perfect customer profile, and you want to target only people that have, that are like that particular client that have the same problems as that client. So how do you do that? Yeah, so then from there, and the other thing I didn't want to leave out is like two simple ways where you could double your.

[00:18:13] Is your D you double your deal size, right? You don't need to change your staff or you cut the time in half that it takes to close a deal. Cause that's another situation. And by the way, I found out later that snowflake the largest IPO in history. If you heard of snowflake before, uh, I have heard of them, but I don't know a ton about this.

[00:18:32] Tell me, so it's like the only IPO that Warren Buffett has invested in like last twenty-five years, they invested $250 million in them. And so basically. What I found out after I did, this is, uh, that basically snowflake has, does the same thing, but it's a 50 by 50 method. They just look at the 50 biggest deals in the 50 fastest deals.

[00:18:51] So, uh, if it works for me and it works for snowflake, it could work for you. So, so, so to take it from there, then what you do is now that, you know, the exact. Like triggers as well as the functional component people and the, the demographics of the account. Now, what you want to do is anybody that you're prospecting or target.

[00:19:13] Has to hit on those, those areas. And so there's sub niche groups that are like that. I mean, we sound, when I did this with my team, we found that there was one deal, one sub niche, vertical, the grocery area, which is why we got whole foods and from an Amazon, because of the fact that we could get a deal size, that was five times a, another vertical, well, basically having the deal, closing the same amount.

[00:19:41] So it's like five times the deal size closing in the same amount of time. So the idea is, and you could look at like a data source, like zoom info, or once you understand those details or like Apollo and get all those and fill those with your potential targets and then for your outbound or your marketing or whatever you want to make sure that you're targeting those people and hating on those messages, because there'll be really fast to reply because it's, it's ridiculous, but you can do.

[00:20:10] So let's, let's let's think about this scenario for a second. Right? Cause I think there were a lot of sellers. Get a little scared to go like to niche. And, and this is a big problem for a lot of sellers. We, you know, um, I think we were, I don't remember. I think we were talking about it before, like 60 plus percent of sellers aren't hitting quota.

[00:20:29] Right. That's a big problem. It's like 66, 67 to be exact. Right. So. What that means is they're filling their pipeline with a bunch of crap, right. In a lot of cases. And so how can sellers be a little bit more intentional about their who they're targeting, but also be very disciplined on the deals that they work and allow in their pipeline?

[00:20:49] Yeah. So. I think like if you're focusing on larger deal sizes and once again, this isn't for a $5,000 a month deal, but if you look at it, I just read this yesterday. Deal size is like 15 to 25 K 25 to 50 K average sales cycle length is anywhere from two to like four and a half months. Right. So it applies to their on up is what I would say.

[00:21:18] Earlier on smaller pipe, it's not gonna be as applicable. Uh, but how do you say focus is have named accounts and be hyper intentional, and then as, and this is really critical for business owners too. And founders is have your team, at least quarterly update their, their dream 100 is where I call it. Right.

[00:21:38] So what's your dream? 100. How do you target it? And then have a balanced portfolio as well? Just like you would have your investments where you're not a hundred percent calling on all the really, really big opportunities. Right. You got to mix it so that you have some, some heavy hitters with those, you know, those basically PCP profile, real heavy.

[00:21:59] Cause some, a lot of times to Callen, those could be deals that take longer because the deal size is much bigger. Right? So you don't want to just only go up to the, go up to bat and trying to hit a home run every single pitch. Sometimes you got to get the singles and doubles. So what I, what I leverage and it worked really well with wraps, with no expense.

[00:22:19] Uh, is basically start off and have like 30% of their dream, 100 allocated. And then as they got the skillsets and they started getting some wins, you could amp that up to 50, right? So then you have some 50% medium, 50% big. And then what'll happen is you'll go from average deal sizes of 20 K one year, then they're 40 K, then they're 80 K.

[00:22:40] Then they're 160, then three 20, then you're talking six, 700 K plus and that's game changing. And you don't even need to add staff for it. That's the beautiful thing about it. Wow. All right. So how does, let's say for like founders, you know, that are, that are listening, that, you know, don't have this type of experience.

[00:22:58] Talk to me a little bit about like the operating systems that you help, you know, implement, um, you know, to implement a system like this, right. That's just the tip of the spear. And so one of the things I do is I help them figure this out and I walk them through this exercise and it's crazy that it was always.

[00:23:15] Massive ah-has that people have when they go through this. Cause they're like, oh, I didn't realize that. Or I didn't stop and think about that. I have, um, one of man, I can't say the company, but this guy grew a company from zero to 300 million and just brilliant guy. And he's like, I, I struggle with this.

[00:23:37] Right. And so like, for some reason it comes easy to me. And so walk them through that process. Help them identify the targeting. And then from there there's like three core operating systems. I think you need to. If you're trying to do a larger deal size, that's the primary, um, system that you have. That's everywhere from the strategy to the process, the execution, the biggest mistake founders make is they just look at the sales process and it's more, um, internally focused versus buyer focused.

[00:24:07] Uh that's step one, step two is okay. Now that you've got them as a customer, what's the secondary sales process you have, right? How are you going to expand and ups? And get that NR then that reoccurring revenue, um, uh, or net retention rate. And I think it is up so that, you know, and you look at like Palentier, like they got 36%, their customer spent 36% more growth year over year.

[00:24:31] It's like, how do you create that? That's the second one. And then the overlying function that bridges across to. Is to create a referral operating system. And that referral is as beautiful because it helps you close deals and half the amount of time. And the deal size is once again, and it's 125, 150%, and that's just by leveraging all the investments you've already made and then systemizing it.

[00:24:54] So you continually get warm leads that are, it's kind of like a new category that I think sits in between inbound and outbound. That's absolutely critical. And one of the best ways to double and triple your. Wow. Yeah. I want to dig into that because I know. So many sellers struggle with referrals. And I don't know why I read something recently that only like 11% of sellers actually ask for referrals.

[00:25:18] And, and I think my opinion on it is that they haven't, they don't it's fear-based they don't feel like they've earned the right to ask for a referral, but I'd love to hear your take on why that is. And what actually implementing and having a process around referrals looks like. Yeah, sure. Ma'am so I think the number one reason is yeah.

[00:25:38] A big part of it's confidence and like, they'll try it a couple of times. They're like, yeah, it didn't. Right. Let's just like, you know, as a baby, if you do that, when you're walking, like you wouldn't be walking today, but you don't stop. And so a lot of times I think what it is is people ask and then what they'll do is they'll be like, Hey, Colin, you know, um, you know, it would really help me out if you could give me a, um, if, if you know anybody like you, that I could work with and nine and a half times out of 10, like you're putting the person on the spot.

[00:26:10] They're not going to have like three referrals to think of off the top of their head, unless somebody just said something to him. Right. So basically I created a four step framework, which is like, okay, what are the pathways? What are the incentives and here's another big mistake. Usually money is not the best incentive.

[00:26:28] Most people always go to money. It's usually not the best incentives. That's step one, like what's the proper incentive. Is it connecting them with someone that's just recently solved the problem that they have? Um, is it, you know, basically after buying your solution, is that the next problem that comes up?

[00:26:42] Is it something to solve that is there are additional seats or licenses, right? So those are the pathways. The second one is, are the peaks. What are the emotional peaks that you have that your buyer has throughout the buying process? Right? Where do they get super excited in jazz? It's kind of like when you fall in love, you know, for the first time and you have that special emotional feeling where you're like, I'll run through a wall, I'll do anything, right.

[00:27:08] Well, when a customer invests in your solution and they put their, you know, they jump up on the table and say, we got to go with this, especially if it's a larger deal. So. And it comes through and it works really well. They're in that euphoric state. So it's like, what's the right timing, you know, example of the wrong timing, just get back from a trip to Vegas.

[00:27:25] Right? You come in and you roll in all on over. If you have, if you do that kind of thing, right? You have your kids running around your wife's been taking the care of the kids all weekend. And then she's like, oh my God, the kids so much this week. Painted the, but you know, this Johnny puked on Sally, Sally threw up on, you know, it was just, I got zero sleep.

[00:27:45] That'd be like the wrong way to do it. Be like, all right, awesome. Like, Hey, I want to go on another guy's trip next week and say, it's so much in Vegas. You care if I go next weekend, right? You can say, hell no, I love that example. Hell though. So it's the opposite of that. You want to do the opposite of that when they're there, they have that euphoric state.

[00:28:01] Next one. So when your wife comes back from a girl's trip, you're like, Hey, I'm thinking about going on a guy trip. Yeah, sure. No. Right. Um, so the next one are the process. What are existing processes that you have in place from your sales process and how do we drop that in? So it's super hyper simple for salespeople to execute on them.

[00:28:21] And then last but not least is persuasion. And persuasion. Oh, by the way, the process, like I li I, I leverage, um, there's a book called tiny habits. Have you heard of tiny habits at all before? I have not. Okay. It's the behavior design research behind atomic habits. So basically James clear took a BJ Fogg's class and there's two other kids that took BJ flogs class.

[00:28:46] And those kids basically created a business and sold it. I think it was within 18 months for a billion dollars. And guess what it is. Tell me Instagram, the guys leverage his behavior design in Instagram to sell a billion dollar business 18 months later. So I leveraged that. And then on top of it to, um, persuasion, um, or that's the last, the fourth P and really there's, um, you know, 90% of what we do as adults.

[00:29:17] I think it's, once you get past the age of 30. Is hardwired and, and based in our subconscious. So it's tapping into that subconscious, so, and aligning that the right way and saying the right thing at the right time. So that's the four-piece stack and that's, that's how you do it. That's a quick kind of synopsis of the framework.

[00:29:35] Does that mean. Yeah. Yeah, no, thanks for breaking it down. Um, I think anybody who's listening to that, write that down, get to work because I was blown away when I read that only like 11% of. Ask for referrals. I thought that number was crazy. Um, and I think that is a big piece. The confidence, like not having to competence, like you got to feel like you've done good work and earn the right to ask, but then you need to ask at the right time, in the right way and have a process around it so that it actually is successful.

[00:30:06] K can I share one thing, man, with the confidence, this will help anybody listening. If it's sales reps, sales managers, founders, whatever. Yeah, absolutely. So after someone's implemented your, your. Ask them to rate you on a scale of one to five, with five being the best one, being the worst. Here's the tip.

[00:30:23] They reach you a four or five. You're doing a great job and they'll, they'll give you a referral, you know? Um, oh, the last but not least. I forgot to mention what are the things embedded in that process? Is to come with them, to people they're connected to and ask if you could reach out to them to make it super simple.

[00:30:37] That's the PDF piece. I forgot. Um, yeah, because then you're not asking them to think on the spot and as super low effort. And so then it's very easy for them to say yes, either have specific people or give them a good idea. Of what a good referral looks like, like just this, that kind of generic vanilla example that you gave previous is like, Hey, other people like you, like, I don't know what is another person like me?

[00:31:02] What are you? I don't know what you want. Right? Like, um, so specific people great. Like, Hey, I see that you're connected to these three people. And that's the big thing. I think a lot of people ask for a referral. They don't ask for multiple asks for, um, Like, like Alberta, you can bring a list of like 10 names.

[00:31:20] Right. And you can say like, Hey, I noticed you're connected to these 10 people, you know? Um, you probably only know half of them. Which ones of these guys do you know, or gals? Oh, I only know five it's like, all right, cool. You mind if I send an email and then copy you on it and send it out to them. And you know, most of the time they'll say, I would say probably 75, 80% of the time, we'll say.

[00:31:43] And here's the thing they like this, like, think of here's the other thing too, Colin to think about, you know, what, when's the last time have you gotten a referral from someone that provided you a service that helped them out that really helped you out that you could think of or a solution? Have you lost me there a little bit?

[00:32:02] So thinking about it from this perspective or you, the listener could think through this, like when's the last time like a friend or a peer is like, Hey, I use this and it worked really well. You know, like, and, and you started using that work well for you. It made you feel good. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I would say I have more examples in just like personal, you know, like, Hey, I use this app, you should check it out too type of scenario, because remember in the B2B space, only 11 people are out of 11% of sellers are asking for referrals.

[00:32:34] So it doesn't happen that much. Right. It should happen more. But in my personal life, like, Hey, I use this, you know, workout app. I use this meditation app I've been using this journal. I've been doing this habit. And then, you know, like intermittent fasting, standing desk, you know, drinking a gallon, like all these things that I do that, um, have been things that I've picked up from other people they're like, Hey, I've been doing this.

[00:32:56] It's been working out well and you should. Yeah, exactly. And then they try it and they love it. And so basically like you're sharing your, I mean, first of all, as a seller, if you do it the right way and you give first with that mentality, like you'll build stronger relationships. You'll make people feel good about sharing with other people, especially if you circle back and be like, Hey, thank you so much, show gratitude.

[00:33:21] Um, the other thing is too, is people need this. Like, there's been more information in the world created over the last three years on the internet than the entire history of the world. Right? So if there's that much information, people are overloaded and it allows them to shortcut good decisions by leveraging people that they trust.

[00:33:43] Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been awesome, Ryan, uh, tons of value in here. Really appreciate having you on, uh, any final thoughts. What are we going to include in the show notes for people? Yeah, just check up the scale up, check out the scale-up show. That's my podcasts. I have lots of cool founders like Colin has on.

[00:34:04] Love love, love to break it down. And, um, yeah, just, just come up, come check out the show. I would say that's the number one thing. And then, you know, if you need help and you want to deploy some of these principles and, and add seven figures in less than three months of your business, reach out to me, you can DM me on LinkedIn.

[00:34:22] Uh, I'm always on there. I publish almost daily, so yeah, it's best places to find me. Awesome. We'll include that in the show notes. If you enjoy today's episode, please write us a review. Share the show with your friends really does help us out. And we're always listening for your feedback. You can go to sales,, drop us a voice DM, and we will get back to you.

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