Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Nov. 4, 2021

#186 S2 Episode 55 - From Selling Sports Gear In His Trunk To Helping Clients Sell 300M+ with Darrell Evans

In one of the longest episodes yet of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell, he's joined with Darrell Evans, co-founder and CMO of Yokel Local Internet Marketing, Inc, podcast host at The MindShift Podcast, and investor/business growth advisor at CANI 365, LLC.

Darrell talks about some revealing truths about the mortgage, banking, and digital market space with a passion. Not only that, he dives into how he started out in sales, how to find the right prospect, honing your mind to generate more sales and so much more.

This episode is filled with nuggets of wisdom from both Collin and Darrell that will surely level up your sales game.


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HIGHLIGHTS

01:02 Darrell's early sales experience selling sports great at the trunk of his car

03:50 Finding the leads that you can close and eliminate the follow-up mindset

07:22 Understanding patience and the long game

11:59 Five star prospect and the ideal customer

16:29 Honing the customer journey and your mind bring sales

23:32 Telling potential customers to slow down and have the courage to say you're not the right person for their needs if it applies

28:49 When Darrell made the jump from sales to marketing

34:24 Final thoughts and how to connect with Darrell

QUOTES

05:14 "The best salespeople become resources to their prospective customers in such a way that you essentially eliminate competition. So what most people would do is if you aren't ready to buy a home or mortgage and you don't close today ... they pretty much move on to the next lead."

07:06 "Salespeople can elevate their game is understanding that you can't control timing. Even if there is 'triggering event' that would likely want to purchase your job is to understand you don't control timing, they do."

11:49 "Another problem that salespeople make is that they try to close everybody. Well everybody is not your customer."

15:21 "If you sell from a scarcity mentality, if you sell to a prospect who is more educated than you about it, you're going to lose the sale anyway."

19:35 "If you get real refined about who it is you wanna sell to, who you want to be an expert to and who do you want to be known as your life gets easier."

26:26 "You are in control of your business, you're in control of who you want to be in the marketplace. I decided that I wasn't going to be a rate junkie, that was what we called them in the game. I'm going to be an adviser, that's how I approach my business ... and that simple distinction means you behave in a different way."

32:38 "The digital marketspace feels very much as nasty and scammy as some of the days in the mortgage industry ... I talk to business owners today, and they're in such a jam, a mess because of someone who 'call themselves an SEO expert.'"

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Transcript

[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell, and this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:24] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation as always. I've got a fantastic guest for you today. I'm going to be talking. Darryl Evans. He is the co-founder over at Yoko local. Uh, he's a serial entrepreneur investor. Co-founder like I mentioned of Yoko, local internet marketing, him and his team have helped entrepreneurs and companies to generate over 300 million in revenue online since 2011.

[00:00:49] Daryl, welcome to the show. Call it, I'm excited to be here with you, man. Uh, looking forward to a great conversation. Yeah, yeah. Um, for those that don't know, we got a doubleheader going on today and we were having too much fun. Just chatting here before we hit record. So I know that there's going to be a lot of nuggets in here for the listeners, but just to give us some context here, give us a little bit of, you know, kind of where it all started, where you know, what you, when you started in sales, what you were selling and then let's take it from.

[00:01:18] Yeah, I appreciate it. Uh, so early background, it started in, in my twenties, uh, for sales, but I started my first business, uh, out of the trunk of my car. When I was in college, I was wholesaling sportswear, t-shirts hats. Uh, you know, I used to buy from a wholesale vendor, uh, using this thing called a cheque and you put it in the mail, but for all the listeners that are internet native, right, this is pre-internet days.

[00:01:40] And I would send a check into the worldwide. USP S system and hope that the product would show up. And it did a backup my car in the swap meet, um, out of my Honda civic and sell some sportswear. So I was in the commerce business, the truck commerce business, not the e-commerce business. Uh, but my first days of sales happened in real estate.

[00:01:58] Uh, got a real estate license in 1992 while I was still in college. And as you and I were chatting about, I, I just, um, I, you know, real estate back then, it was all the things you could think of. Cold calling door knocking, you know, flyers in rental properties. And, um, that was where I chopped. I cut my teeth and.

[00:02:17] Um, real estate, huh? Real estate. It was, uh, it was, uh, it was interesting. I loved real estate, uh, but I didn't think of it as a career. I, I enjoyed the idea. I ended up getting a finance degree while I was in college and, uh, transitioned into the mortgage industry, uh, after another short stent in the financial services world.

[00:02:35] So my sales background tracks through real estate. Uh, well, you can call it the sportswear business, but real estate. More, uh, financial services, uh, life insurance, health insurance, CDs, mutual funds, et cetera, into the financial services world of the mortgage industry, which was a 12 year track for me. And I combed a mortgage company during that window of time and did well over 7,000 consultations.

[00:02:58] During that window, I think closed around 1800 loans. And so that was, you know, that was where the mustard was, uh, was, uh, was diced up. And then now 11, 12 years later in our digital marketing agency, we've had for 11 years. Uh, you mentioned the 300 million we've done for clients. So now we obviously figured out one of the big passions I have now is helping companies generate sales or generating the lead that brings in the sale, uh, for companies, uh, to fuel their.

[00:03:25] Yeah, well, I'm always intrigued by people that, uh, you know, have a good track record in both sales and marketing, you know? Cause I think it, these days to understand both at at least a, you know, somewhat of a basic level, maybe you're stronger on one side of the other is pretty much essential. I mean, to be a good marketer, you need to know, you know, you need to understand the sales side of the coin of like.

[00:03:50] What is a good lead for sales? Not just like, Hey, I got to lead to fill out a form, but like, what are the, what are the leads that sales are actually going to close? Right. And to be good in sales, like you need to understand, you know, you need to somewhat be a good marketer. These days is. Yeah, I agree. I agree.

[00:04:08] I was very lucky to start in the, in, in industries that had what I would call long-term sales cycles, you know, never an emergency to buy a house, never an emergency to sell a house, never in emergency to get a mortgage. I mean, you could argue that when rates are dropping and. You know, rates could fluctuate.

[00:04:25] You might argue that a refinance could be urgent, but in, in my experience, uh, Collin, none of those scenarios were urgent. So it made me understand the idea of pipeline. It gave me a clear understanding of long-term relationship building because Colin, listen, if you come to me and let's just say, hypothetically, you want to buy a house.

[00:04:45] And you're in a release of an apartment today, and you've got four months left on your lease. Well, I've got to work with you now over the next four months, five months, six months. If you're like, I used to work with the military folks, uh, in, in VA loans in VA transfers. If someone's got orders to come to an Nellis air force base here in Las Vegas, where I'm at those orders may come out 12 months in advance, 10 months in.

[00:05:07] So they may call to inquire about real estate or call to inquire about the financing 10 months early. Does that mean they need to do a pre-qualification application today? No. Right. They need to understand what it's going to take. Can they use their VA again because they already have the VA on the property in Texas.

[00:05:24] Can they still use the VA? And so understanding VA entitlement was, I mean, so what I'm getting at is I learned early on Colin that the best salespeople. Good. Uh, they become resources to their prospective customer in such a way that you essentially eliminate competition. So what most people would do is if, if you weren't ready to buy a home or you weren't ready to get a mortgage and you don't close today, or you don't start the process today, they pretty much move on to the next lead.

[00:05:56] And I never understood. I never thought about it that way. Oh, if I stay in touch with them once a month, over the next 10 months, I probably have a better shot. And that was what I R I learned early on about sales. And that was being, I understood the bent formula. I got taught this in my early twenties and BANT is what it stands for.

[00:06:15] It's an old school sales philosophy, and it really had more to do with pre-qualifying a prospect, but I just started saying, okay, what does it mean budget? Do they have the budget to buy the thing that they want? Do they have the authority to make the decision. And I'll tell you why, how I flip that word over from a sales perspective, do they really have a need to transact this business?

[00:06:36] Um, at all, I mean, is it a water? Is it a need? We could talk about vitamin versus painkiller and then timing. And so what I learned was it is important that you find out if they have. That's true. You do. You got to find out if they have the authority to make the sale, but here's the other piece. We all agree in sales that people buy from people they like know and trust.

[00:06:56] So I flipped it on its head and said, can I make sure that I'm the authoritative person that they think they should buy from? Not just are they the authority to make the purchase. And then I'm like, okay, is this a need or is this a want, meaning you're transferring from Lachlan to Nellis, but do you have to buy a house?

[00:07:15] Right. Is it a need or is it a want? So I would always be okay with that variable. And the last piece Colin that I think would make salespeople, uh, elevate their game is understand that you can't control timing. Even if there is a quote unquote triggering event. That would likely make them want to purchase your job is to understand you don't control timing.

[00:07:36] They do. And so I just learned something early in my days around the world of sort of quotas and pipelines, to understand patients and understand the long game and understand that was all about relationship development. And I developed a phrase many, many years ago called my job to be good in sales is to develop relationships and over time, get a return on those relationships.

[00:08:00] And so it's a different perspective that I just developed in my twenties and thirties. And of course, online, it is very much the same. Um, yeah, so, I mean, I know Ben is a, is a old school sales, you know, uh, framework of, of figuring those, those things out. But there's that last piece that I think a lot of.

[00:08:21] Um, and, and, and there's even like more that you can unpack there, right? Like, okay. You know, is there. Is there a need or is there a problem and do they actually care about solving that or not? And then timing is timing. I think the timing is where a lot of salespeople struggle. Right. Cause they want to try to control the timing and this kind of ties back to what you said previously, which I think is, is so important.

[00:08:47] And, uh, I was talking about this recently because so many salespeople, you know, Go into sort of a band mentality into a relationship with the prospect. And it typically sounds more like an interrogation and horrible experience and it actually backfires. Right. And so, yeah, you need to find those things out, but when, like you're only concerned about finding those things out and not actually.

[00:09:17] Given a rip about the person, um, then it can come off really the wrong way. And so what you mentioned earlier, which I'm totally in agreeance with is you can't control the timing piece. Well, many salespeople try to, and the thing is, is as soon as they find out like, oh, Are in market right now. You're not going to help me hit this quarter's quota.

[00:09:42] Um, they stopped giving a rip. They, Hey, I'll check back in, you know, quarter. They don't stay top of mind. They, you don't hear from them until, Hey, is it time to buy? Right. Right. So, and so what I like to kind of flip that is, is. You know, I'm trying to give people a good experience in all interactions, you know, whether they have the budget, you know, because I've actually found some of the people that I have conversations with, and this is what I like to teach.

[00:10:12] My team is like the goal is to you make sure they have a good experience regardless of the outcome, which in a lot of cases, even if you do everything right, you can't control. They, you know, and so, because what I found is even some of those people that we can deliver a good experience to, um, They become some of your best brand and pastors are referral sources or you name it customers down the road, whatever the case is.

[00:10:35] And so many people get so wrapped up in like, oh, they're not in market right now. So I'm not going to give a rip about the person. Yeah. And, and also, you know, focus on what you can control, which is what you do, how you do it, the frequency that you do it, but you can't control whether they buy or not. In a lot of cases, you can do everything right.

[00:10:53] And you still might lose more than. Right. You know, I think a lot of great points there. And I would just think of a couple of things that just jumped out at me. As you talked about that, talked about that band formula being this old-school Integra interrogation, and that comes from the idea that you're trying to get something you want.

[00:11:11] Without being empathetic to what they want. And so that's like point number one. I, no matter what my sales pipeline looked like, and I don't know when this level of maturity came across my, my being, but it B it just, it didn't matter what my pipeline looked like. It didn't what my bills looked like. It didn't look like what my sales quota look like.

[00:11:30] I was never interested in trying to move them further, faster than they wanted to move. See? Yeah, I don't care. It doesn't matter what my books look like. It doesn't matter if my pipeline is down a million dollars or whatever the case is. I'm not interested in trying to move you further, faster than you want to move.

[00:11:48] That's point number one point number two is this high now versus high later there's only four types of prospects you're ever going to talk to someone who's a good product. And they want to move now, someone who's a good prospect and they want to move later. Someone was a bad prospect and they want to move.

[00:12:02] Now someone who's a bad prospect and they want to move later to two of those people you shouldn't talk to. Right. And that's another problem that salespeople make is that they try to close everybody. Well, everybody's not your customer. And so I learned in my early days to define. What I call a five star prospect, right?

[00:12:19] Who is, and we talked about this in the online space, who is your ideal customer? So when I started in real estate, uh, let me fast forward to the mortgage industry because it actually gets a little bit cleaner for me there. Uh, I'm going to actually go to financial services and then show you how I've transitioned this and how we make this work online.

[00:12:36] When you're starting new in a career or starting new, or you want to even add a source of revenue to your business or your book, you've got to get really honed in on who it is that you're trying to target one person. When I started in financial services right out of college, and I only talked to attorneys.

[00:12:53] How did, why was it that I decided to talk to attorneys? Well, because attorneys talk a little differently than doctors who talk a little differently than architects who talk a little differently than CPAs, who talk a little differently than managers of the, uh, casinos here in Vegas. There's those personality types are different.

[00:13:09] They may all make great. They may all want the same thing. They may all want to retire and plan for their college education for their kids, but they talk differently. And if you get an understanding of personality profiles and what I call, um, uh, human behavior studies, you will figure out that you're not going to mesh well with everybody, even if they're a good customer.

[00:13:27] So that was one of the things fast forward to the mortgage lending in. When I got into that industry, Collin, I only talked to first time home buyers for the first two and a half to three years. Why? Because I could understand their cadence. I could understand their concerns. I knew exactly what they were thinking.

[00:13:46] I knew how to solve their problem. I knew how to alleviate their fear versus talking to the investor who buying their sixth investment property. Who's. Bottom line driven. So there's two different problems that the investor, they're only looking at the numbers. I used to sell property to investors, sight unseen.

[00:14:03] As long as the numbers penciled a first time home buyer could never do that. They had to see the house 18 times, right. They need to see 34 good faith estimates from 14 lender. I mean, those are two different customers. And so going back to the point. You need to understand your customer and the psychology of your customer.

[00:14:23] And then if you move that forward to what we do online today, your marketing gets better. When you understand the psychology of your customer, your customer, not customers, you can't sell to everybody. We don't sell to SAS and local and corporate America and, and, and our company name is. Local. And it doesn't mean that we haven't done that.

[00:14:46] We have sold outside of local, but you've got to understand just like I didn't sell first-time buyers for 12 years. I ended up selling investors and multi-families and wealthy properties and affluent people, but you've got to start somewhere. So you understand the psychology of that customer and hone in your skill.

[00:15:02] And then bank becomes just a piece of. Yeah. Yeah. I mean so many good things there. I mean, I think that's a big problem for a lot of sellers and marketers where they try to serve too many people. Right. And I think that it's. That a lot of people are scared. Like if I go too narrow, too niche, then I'm going to be turning away business.

[00:15:27] But the reality is, is you're actually just bloating your pipeline with a lot of deals that you're probably never going to close anyway. Yep. And they're gonna see, they're gonna see right through it. They're going to see right through you, right? If your self from a scarcity mentality, if you sell to a prospect who is more educated than you about it, You're going to lose the sale anyway.

[00:15:48] And when I first got into the financial services world in the mortgage side of things, I didn't know. What investment financing looked like? I didn't know what commercial bridge financing looked like. I didn't know what construction to permanent housing, meaning somebody building a custom home. I didn't know what that looked like.

[00:16:05] What I knew was I knew FHA and I knew conventional and I do see cited that if I just focused on first time buyers, I had two choices. Are you putting down 3% or 5%? Do you want PMI or whatever? FHA, MIP. I could really dial that down. It's like a good chef, right? A good chef. And that w I'm a, I'm a foodie.

[00:16:26] So I'm a big, big time foodie. I'm a cook in the kitchen. I'm not a chef. Uh, people ask me all the time. You'd like to cook all the time or your chef Noma cook. There's a difference. Um, uh, but good, great chefs take similar recipes as other great chefs. And then they add something to it that gives it its uniqueness, and then they own their market.

[00:16:45] They own their brands. If you go into your thought process of owning the customer journey and owning what's going on psychologically with them, your sales will just get easier. There was no shortage of first time home buyers in my day, ever. There still isn't to this day, right? Even in this crazy market that we're in, uh, there was never a shortage of local business owners.

[00:17:04] When we started the digital marketing company. It, there's just, isn't a shortage. It's just scarce mentality. Um, and it comes back to not having a framework for understanding who it is you want to sell to who is it? You're good at selling to number one. And I look at the word selling as solving, who can you really solve a problem for based on your current level of experts?

[00:17:25] So there's no reason for me to try to solve corporate America. We did, we, we worked in corporate America with some big companies that I'll leave off the name here, but we realized that when we were in that space, we didn't do our best work because there were different rules. Like there's different rules when you're helping a fortune thousand giant or fortune 100 giant who has 28 people than the department.

[00:17:48] And they bring you in to do projects versus a small to midsize company, which is what we specialize in, who are companies that went from startup to 2 million, to 5 million, to 10 million to 30 million. Those companies look different than $4 billion a year companies. We decided to play in this space where we could add value.

[00:18:04] That means if you come to. Big Mr. Miss corporate America, we're out of the conversation. That means understanding we're just not a good fit for you. It does. Maybe. Could it help you? It just means we're choosing not to. And that's us choosing not to make. Yeah, that takes a lot of discipline for people. Um, and I think it's hard cause it's definitely a lot hard to turn away money, but, but you know, the problem is, is like it's short term, it's short short-term money, you know, it's, it's customer is customer churn and, and, and you really nailed it is like, okay.

[00:18:38] You know, when you try to serve too many different types of. People personas companies, industries, whatever the case is, you don't do your best work and you're, you know, you can be better. Specialize in your specific niche and do your best work. And then you, you, then you can minimize churn in, in, in, in increased, you know, uh, long-term, you know, customer value and all these other things that are important to having a sustainable profitable business and one that actually serves your life.

[00:19:12] Let's let's, let's talk about that a little bit, right? If you're a sales person and you have, look, everybody wants to. Into cruise control. At some point I don't care what the word is out there. The hustle, the grind mentality. At the end of the day, it takes some of that to get anything launched. I mean, Colin, you know, this you've launched and grown for companies.

[00:19:30] So like, listen, it does take some grit, some grind and some sleepless nights to get a venture off the ground. If you're a salesperson and you don't get paid a salary, as far as I'm concerned, you're a non. Yeah. As far as I'm concerned, right? You don't have to have your name on the shingle, but if you don't get paid a salary and you don't get paid an $80,000 base with all these bonuses plus stipends, you're, self-employed that being said, if you get real refined about who it is you want to sell to and who you want to be an expert to, and who do you want to be known as your life gets easier?

[00:20:00] Because when you're dealing in a league, that's out of your league, for example, when I'm a first time home buyer guy at that time, and I'm trying to deal with the million I did, I had a million and a half. Um, customers. I was out of my league, dude. I had no f-ing clue what the hell I was doing. And so, because of that, it was taking me hours.

[00:20:22] But guess what I was doing, I was chasing the million and a half dollar deal, because guess what? A million, a half times your commission rate, I did the math. Right? I did the math. It was the hardest deal of my life. And the funny thing was, was after I closed it once I actually didn't have an appetite to do it again.

[00:20:42] So someone would say, well, Daryl, why wouldn't you want to close me? And a half dollar deals every day, all day. I'm like, because Hey, those deals are few and far in between. This is back in the, in the, in the early two thousands and B. I don't have enough at bats at that kind of deal. You know, how many at bats I get with a first-time home buyer?

[00:20:58] 50 a month? Yeah. So guess what I can build now routine systems processes around the routine, which allows me to scale. See if I have this custom deal, I have to do every month. I've got to reinvent myself every month. And so I don't want to get into that tangent, but your job in sales, how did I do sales?

[00:21:17] 7,000 sales consultations, close 1800 loans, but that's a pretty decent close rate. If I do say so myself, it had nothing to do. With the product it had to do with the type of person I was willing to work with and who I was willing not to work with best, the king became clear and it wasn't that they were bad people.

[00:21:35] None of them were bad people. It's just that the, you know, listen here was the person that I wouldn't work with back in those days. And I know we were talking about those days versus today, but if you came to me and just told me, Hey, I want to get a good faith estimate from you so I can compare rates.

[00:21:51] You're not my customer. Yeah. Because you're, what's called a rate shopper and I'm okay with you being prudent about getting a good rate, but I don't need the practice to sit down and produce a good faith estimate, just so you can go work with your bank, which was, you know, one of the big name banks in the country, let them give you one.

[00:22:10] And if you don't like their rate, come talk to me later. And so I just made a distinction that if that's all they wanted to talk about, I had other things I could do. I wanted to help people who needed. Not someone who already knew they were qualified already. Just trying to penny pinch. First of all, I just don't like people that try to squeeze so much off the apple, like it needs to be a fair transaction for both parties.

[00:22:31] You know, I get paid, I don't get paid unless I close the loan. Now you want me to work in advance for no reason. So, no, I just, I just. That there were certain characteristics of customers that if they leaned in that sort of direction, I would bail out from the transaction and never be worried that there were going to be a shortage of leads.

[00:22:50] There were times when I was taking 50 new customers a month into the process, that's not a shortage of. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and there's, there's the key there is knowing who is the ideal prospect to work with and knowing who isn't and being disciplined enough to walk away from those opportunities that, you know, are not the people that you serve best, you know, the, in your, in your, in your example, there, the rate shopper.

[00:23:17] Right. But another example that I think everybody in sales can relate to is the person that's quick. Price. What's the price. What's the price. What's the price. Send me a proposal and sellers get really, uh, excited, overly excited. They want a price. They're ready. They're qualified. Let's go. Um, and you actually, you know, to, to not bloat your pipeline with a bunch of stuff, that's probably never going to close.

[00:23:46] You actually need to hit the brakes on those people. Slow them down a little bit and say, look, I don't even know if you need what I have. I don't even feel if you have a problem that you even care about solving. And I don't even know if I'm the right person to solve this problem for you. Tell him something, call him, tell him, tell him.

[00:24:01] And. And they're like, oh, you know, in some sellers can get scared because they're like, Well, if I tell them all that they might go away. Great. Good, great. You just saved yourself. 52 followups, 33 emails and 15 personalized videos. When they're ghosting you. Hey guys, if you guys aren't taking them well, colleges that.

[00:24:22] If they need to leave. Listen, how do I tell someone that they're not a good fit for me? It's not like I'm rudely saying, Hey, Collin, by the way, you're just not a good customer for me. They say, well, I've got already back in the day. I've already got great quotes from this company, this company, this company, and I'm the fourth company on the list.

[00:24:35] Because by the way, that was one of those other bad things that used to happen in the industry. Oh, you should get three quotes from three lint. That's a bunch of bull. You should find the person you trust and believe that they're gonna give you. If you go to the store, do you go, and did you rate quote how much milk costs off the shelf?

[00:24:49] No milk costs $2 and 99 cents. If it's, if it's the name brand and if it's the store bought private label, it's $2 and 82 cents is 16 cents. They all comes from the same place. So, um, but banks could do something that we couldn't as broker bankers, which means cause we were wholesaling. They own the servicing and they own the whole bit, and they did it pay their loan officer's commission.

[00:25:09] The loan officers were paid quasi salary, plus a little bitty, little bitty, little bitty bonus. So they would give away the loan in order to get the business because they had a business model that says, oh, if they buy a loan, they'll open a bank account. They open a savings account. They'll buy a car loan, they'll get a credit card.

[00:25:25] In fact, when you close the loan, they'll make them get the credit card and open the bank account at that. I don't have that as an independent broker. So I already know what the game looks like. So I understood the rules of the game. So if you've got a loan for a quote from these two or three banks, I'm out of the conversation, unless they piss you off or they do something you just don't like, then come back and see me.

[00:25:45] I'm not going to win the game anyway. And I'm not going to lower my fee to get to where they're at because they have five other products they sell you. And it's part of the model. I'm not mad at the model, but the model is the model. They're a bank. Now here's the thing about that. You know, if there's something that comes up or there's a problem, or there's an issue in the process.

[00:26:05] That's right. You think the person is getting no commission is going to care at all. They're still getting a paycheck at the end of the day. The relationship with you doesn't matter. They're not, they don't care if you send them a referral, they don't care if some, there was a kink in the process and it didn't work out.

[00:26:22] They're going home at 5:00 PM and they're still getting the same salary that they got, whether they did a good job. 100%, 100%, you know, and I'm not beating up, uh, by the way, just so I'm clear, I'm not beating up anybody that worked at the bank and did well. I'm not saying they're just picking on, we're just picking on them a little bit, using them as an example.

[00:26:41] The point we're making is you are in control of your business. You are control, you're in control of who do you want to be in the marketplace? I decided that I wasn't going to be a rate junkie. That was what we called it in the game. I decided I'm not going to be a rate junkie. I'm going to be an advocate.

[00:26:58] Like, that's how I approached my business. I'm an advisor. I'm not a, an, a loan officer. And that simple distinction means you behave in a different way. Which means if they came in saying, Hey, I need a rate quote for an FHA loan. I'd ask, why do you want to do an FHA loan? It's not because I don't want to talk them out of the FHA loan because I made more money to sell conventional.

[00:27:17] That was. It was, why do you want an FHA loan? Or they say, Hey, I want to put 20% down on the house. Why do you want to put 20% out of house? I just want to understand. And if I can understand what your goals and objectives are a, I can now open up opportunities for conversation, because what happens is most people ask for what they know to be common because their friends or family did it, but that may not be okay for you.

[00:27:40] The person who's wealthy, who puts down 20% to avoid PMs. Versus the first time buyer who's going to put pretty much every dollar in their bank account into this house. You're telling me you want to put 20% down on a house, drain your bank account. And if you ever need the money again, you got to come back to me and borrow it.

[00:27:57] You think that's smart? Like I would just simply have that conversation and most loan officers wouldn't they just take the 20% down drain the first time home buyers account. And three months later, they may have had a life event cause life events happen and now they're struggling. And now we come back and strap on a stupid home equity line of credit.

[00:28:15] And I'm letting you borrow back the money that was in your. Six or eight or 12 months ago. It was the dumbest. I don't let me get don't let me get started. We are picking up bankers and I was one of them for 12 years. So let's be clear. I found the problems in the industry and again, 2008, 2009 happened. Uh, I just was so disgusted because I just couldn't.

[00:28:42] I used to take people out alone. Colin that I was just like, who in the F did this to you? Like, I wanted to throw blows at some of these people, man, like Mike Tyson. I want it to haymaker these people. What the hell did they do to put you in this mess? So, anyway, um, I don't know how we got off track on this, but sales is the topic of the day.

[00:29:02] Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's, let's fast forward a little bit. When and why did you decide to make the jump from sales to market? Leverage. I made it in my twenties. I didn't, I hated cold calling. I didn't mind doing it. I did it. I knew how to do it. I read all the scripts I got, I did it, but you cold calling is a marketing activity.

[00:29:23] Yeah. I maybe, maybe, uh, maybe I think you're actually right, because in the days when I was taught as a real estate agent, I was taught to call a for sale by owners, which doesn't really exist today. But people that wanted to sell their house without paying a commission, call their house, call them, talk to them about why that'd be a biggest mistake of their life, because there's all these legal ramifications, blah, blah, blah.

[00:29:42] You can get an appointment to show them your market. Um, if the house would have been on the market for six months and it expired, it was an expired listing. It became available. You could call them after the listing agreement was ended, et cetera, et cetera. And that Jen, so all of that was what I got taught and I just, it just never felt good because a, the house expired on November 1st and 400 realtors were calling the same day.

[00:30:05] What it was. I really going to say that was uniquely different, right? Nothing a for sale by. Anybody could drive through the neighborhood and see the sign and, and knock on the door and get on their nerves. And they were eating dinner and I just hated it. And so I just said, there's gotta be a better way happened to be that I found a guy who understood the world of direct response marketing, um, as taught back then by Dan Kennedy.

[00:30:25] Uh, so I ended up kind of, uh, getting involved in his world of learning, uh, direct response copywriting using direct mail, using classified ads using one 800. Uh, what I called, um, uh, tree lines whereby someone could call one 800 and get free information, which today you see that on landing pages, right?

[00:30:44] Yeah. Come over to xyz.com forward slash free gift and download the white paper, the checklist, the webinar or whatever. That's what I did in the 800 hotline world back in my, in the nineties. So the invitation was, um, you know, it would be something to the effect, uh, you know, five ways to sell your home. On your own, right.

[00:31:05] I'd help them do the thing that they wanted to do. And I give them five tips on this voice line. And if they were interested in having a conversation with me only if they were interested beyond the five tips, would they leave their name and number? And it would lead to me calling them, setting up appointment and going out.

[00:31:19] So I started understanding that. Better. And then that fast forward to 2003, four, when the world of the internet started really taking off from a consumer demand standpoint. And then the day I got my first smartphone, which wasn't an iPhone, it was a Blackberry. I knew it was game over. I knew leverage. I knew internet leverage was the deal.

[00:31:39] I knew that getting in front of the customer journey, because back then I'm competing with Quicken home loans, lending tree.com, lower margins. Once I saw those companies blowing up. I'm like, oh, consumer behavior has changed forever. And I need to understand how that works. And so that's what I jumped on.

[00:31:57] LinkedIn. I started a YouTube account in 2007, started recording videos. So I'm kind of, oh, gee with this. And so that's what led to when the market crashed in oh nine. Me looking around at the business community saying, man, business owners don't get what's happening right now. They just don't. And so I was like, I could do, you know, and w there were some other things that underlying in the mortgage industry, obviously you could tell from my energy earlier, my taste buds to the way things happen.

[00:32:24] No, wait, uh, just let me, it just opened the door for me to find my, my, uh, step into another gift that I had developed that a lot of people hadn't developed, which was turning perfect straight. And customers using third-party tools like direct mail classified as today as the internet, but doing so in a way that was empathetic to where they were in their own buyer's journey.

[00:32:46] And that is what I've been teaching and talking about in preaching. And, um, there's all, by the way, I just said this a couple of weeks ago on a show and. The digital marketing space feels very much as nasty and as scamming as some of the days in the mortgage industry where people, I talked to business owners calling.

[00:33:07] And they are in such a jam. They're in such a mess from somebody else who quote unquote, call themselves an SEO expert or whatever, whatever. And I'm unwrapping and winding my agency, myself, my consultant, we're unwrapping the garbage that somebody put them in online and online is wherever that is to them.

[00:33:26] And so that, unfortunately there's some similarities you didn't have to be qualified to get in the mortgage industry. I hate to say it in my state, $200 in fog. And you were good. This was back in the early two thousands. And today in the digital marketing space, it's no different business owners. Can't tell that somebody took a course for a hundred bucks and by the way, it's coming up on black Friday right now at the time we're recording this, those courses will get discounted to $19 and somebody over a weekend can lay their hat in a shingle as a digital marketing expert and start taking business owners money.

[00:33:56] And it's a shame because they have no skill at the craft. Yeah, yeah. It's unfortunately, or in a lot of cases. They don't even understand it at all. They just know how to sell it. And they just have to, you know, who knows who they're good with the words. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's use the words in a business owner has no clue.

[00:34:17] And that's the thing that, the thing, the thing that really sucks about it is that then they got all these black eyes and bloody noses from those experiences. And they think like, oh, this. You know, Facebook ads don't work. SEO doesn't work all day. I mean, and it's not that it doesn't work. It's just that they didn't have the right team to execute on things that do work.

[00:34:40] So, yeah. All right. Well, Daryl, it has been fabulous having you on this was a lot of fun. Yeah. Any final thoughts? Where can people connect with you? What are we going to include in the show notes? You know, uh, Colin, thanks for having me, man. We'd get fired up. I always enjoy talking with other leaders like yourself, sales pros.

[00:34:58] Uh, listen, thanks for having me. Uh, you can find me since you've been listening to this show. Uh, I have a podcast called the Mindshift podcast. We talk with interviews, experts, and thought leaders about their journey from inspiration to realization, which is how did they build something from scratch, um, and, and turn it into success.

[00:35:14] But more importantly, we break down the journey from when life knocked them down. How did they. I get back up and what I call breakdown to breakthrough and call it. I'm super excited that you're going to be on the show. So if they can follow us at the Mindshift podcast, you can find us wherever you listen to this show.

[00:35:29] Hey, you stuck around that tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation. If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same. Head over to sales, cast.community and crush your numbers on your leaderboard. Yeah. It's free sales cast.community.

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