Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Sept. 20, 2021

#154 S2 Episode 23 - A Path to Understanding The Sales & Marketing Side of The Coin

On this episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell he's joined by Fred Diamond, president and co-founder of Institute for Excellence in Sales, award-winning podcast host of the Sales Game Changers Podcast, and "The Diamond Group."

Fred shares his knowledge about how sales and marketing can go hand-and-hand. He also brings out the truth about having great marketing would equal to nothing if it would not turn into revenue for the company. All this and more as we dive into today's podcast.

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01:22 The how, when, and why Fred Diamond's transformation story is worth knowing

05:07 How sales and marketing teams can work better together

13:43 How marketing is a journey and how each experience enhances you in sales

23:48 A huge miss for a lot of sellers and how to overcome that mindset

27:23 How to reach Fred and get in touch with him as he's not a "busy guy" at all


06:50 "Any marketing stuff that is done well that doesn't help either drive revenue or whatever else the corporate goals might be, is truly a waste of time and money. And the problem is not every marketer understands that."

10:40 "I'll be perfectly frank with you man, I think it's the other way. I think marketing really needs to understand what drives sales. I would say it's a 9 to 1 balance, and if the marketing people don't understand which is driving revenue, then they're basically wasting their companies money."

14:19 "Sales is a process that's why one of the challenges is we measure sales these days but what's the journey? What has to happen at various stages and why does it happen? That's how you get better as a sales professional."

22:31 "Make everyone you're talking to feel important. Imagine like they have a little placard on their chest that says 'make me feel important' because here's the number one rule in sales, 'it aint about you.'"

26:09 "People are starting to realize that investing more on these type of things, in themselves personally are gonna help them perform better, you know? It's great to talk about all the tactics and social selling and how to negotiate better and all those things that are important, but if you take care of yourself personally, you're gonna be better at all those things."

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[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell, and this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:24] All right, what's happening. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. As always today, I've got a fantastic guest for you. I've got Fred diamond. This is somebody I've been wanting to have on for quite some time. And he is just such a busy guy. But it took a while to make it happen. So today we've got Fred diamond and I'm very excited.

[00:00:42] Uh, Fred diamond is the co-founder of the Institute for excellence in sales and the host slash producer of the award winning sales game changer. Podcast, which is a fantastic podcast. If you've never checked it out, I highly recommend it. Uh, Fred, welcome to the show. [00:00:59] How are you doing? Thank you so much, Collin.

[00:01:00] It's great to see a transformation is one of my favorite words. So I'm thrilled. And just a quick note for your listeners. I'm really not that busy. So if anybody wants to see me or talk to me or took me out for lunch, um, I'm always. Well, I know that you are, you know, on a crazy recording schedule all the time and guest on podcasts frequently.

[00:01:19] So, um, maybe, maybe my perception was a little off, but, uh, I know that I see you posting stuff, doing stuff all of the time, doing all kinds of good work for the sales community. Uh, so I made that assumption. There you go, Fred, Diamond's not as busy as I said. And if you want to connect with him, make it happen.

[00:01:37] Fred, let's just jump right in here. You know, when did you get into sales and let's dig into your sales transformation story? Cause I'm sure there's going to be tons of learning lessons that we can pull out of there. Yeah. I just wanna hit on one quick thing about the. Busy because that's something that I think people really need to get their arms around and whatever here people say, oh, I'm so busy.

[00:01:54] I like to say that Obama used to take an hour every day to play basketball. [00:01:58] So if the president of the United States can take an hour to care about himself, you could easily fit people into your schedule. So, uh, so here's my sales journey real quick. Most of my career was in marketing, but my first job was with McGraw-Hill publishing.

[00:02:11] I was a technical editor and I was analyzing tech companies, which is how I got into. Tech marketing, but we sat right next to the salespeople. So we had this, a team of about 10 outbound sales guys and they were all guys. And, uh, I would hear them talk on the phone and I would hear them talk about the meetings they were going to have.

[00:02:30] And I said, you know, what, if it weren't for these guys, We would have no reason to write these journals that we were writing back in the, uh, in the mid eighties. So I was always, uh, focused and enamored on the role in sales. Uh, then, like I mentioned, I was in marketing, uh, companies like apple and compact computer and a large software company called Compuware.

[00:02:48] But I knew that our purpose was to make it easier for the salespeople. And I always said that my mission. Is to [00:02:57] help the salespeople, uh, eliminate any of the blocks that would keep them away from bringing in business for the company. Fast forward to a little bit towards the future. I became a independent marketing consultant and my motto was a marketing that doesn't lead to revenue reward is a huge waste of time and money.

[00:03:16] So I was always, again, a big fan of the sales process. I, I used to spend as much time as I could with the salespeople. One of my first bosses at apple said, the only value we're going to bring is if the salespeople trust us. So I would sit in as many meetings as like, could. Along the way as a marketing consultant.

[00:03:36] I realized that I was getting hired typically by VPs of sales and sales wasn't happening. And one of the reasons why it happened, it wasn't happening was because marketing wasn't as strong as it could be. So I created the Institute for excellence in sales, uh, just outside of, well in the Washington DC area where I'm based.

[00:03:52] And 2012, we just started doing programs for [00:03:56] salespeople mainly. So that I could meet more sales VPs and along the way, it just got more fun and it got more interesting. And I thought I was providing more value than I was as a marketing consultant. So now we run it full time. It's a global organization.

[00:04:11] Our mission is to help sales leaders. Retain motivate and elevate top tier talent. And one thing we do is every day we do a webcast. We were honored to have you as a guest recently on our optimal sales mindset show, which we do every Thursday and, uh, every day we're doing a webinar for sales leaders around the globe.

[00:04:29] Wow. Wow. Okay. What an incredible journey. Um, I want to kind of go back a little bit, cause I'm always, I'm always, um, I'm always fascinated with people that understand the sales side of the coin and the marketing side of the coin. And you know, it's only. Not not right now, but more, more recently that a lot of organizations are trying to get sales and marketing on the same page, trying to get them on the same team, [00:04:55] getting them to report up to revenue or having, you know, some sort of alignment or.

[00:05:00] Respect for each other's role, but it sounds like you've been doing that type of work for, for quite some time. And, and, and may have sort of lead the charge on some of that stuff. Because before, you know, for a long time, it's always been marketing, does their job sales does their job. They work in these separate silos and point fingers when things don't, when goals don't get hit.

[00:05:20] And unfortunately that still happens in some organizations today. But I'm, I'm curious to just get your thoughts on how sales and marketing teams can, you know, work better to, so that's a great question. And there's, uh, two things that I read besides having some mentors that helped me understand this, but there was a classic book written by a guy named Sergio.

[00:05:41] C Y M a N and he wrote two books. He wrote the end of advertising as we know it. And the end of marketing as we know it. And I'm not sure when it might've been the nineties, he was the chief marketing officer for Coke Coca-Cola corporation. [00:05:54] And he made the observation that they increased their marketing spend, but sales of Coke's product Coke products didn't increase.

[00:06:01] And he had the epiphany that something else is going on. It's really about sales. Uh, I've been very fortunate when I was at apple and when I was a Compaq, I luckily had a million dollar multi-million dollar budgets to do marketing things, and I was doing tons of stuff. You know, that was back in the day.

[00:06:17] I was doing everything from advertising to seminars to putting our executives on cruise ships so they can meet with customers. And, uh, at the end of the day, I couldn't tell you what I was dealing was really. It felt it was, you know, because people said, oh my God, that's a great ad campaign. Well, did it really help us achieving our goals, which was to drive revenue.

[00:06:39] Every company I've ever worked for the number one goal was to grow revenue and continue to grow revenue. Uh, so was I helping. You know, I remember I had a long conversation when I was a Compaq with the, a [00:06:53] guy who ran brand a compact. It was one of the biggest computer companies of all time in the, in the mid nineties, before it got sold to HP and merged.

[00:07:00] And the director of brand said our goal is to be the number one brand so that more people will buy our products. You know, any marketing stuff that is done well that doesn't help either drive revenue or whatever else. The corporate goals might be. It is truly a waste of time and money. And the problem is not every marketer understands that a lot of times marketing people think that their job is to put on a great event or their job is to put on a really crisp digital campaign or whatever it might be, or to have a great website.

[00:07:30] And that's important. That's not important if it's not going to help the corporation achieve its goals, which almost invariably come down to revenue. Yeah. Yeah. There's a ton of money and time that gets wasted in marketing. And if, if, and I just know from, from people that I've talked to, you know, the teams that are really [00:07:52] crushing those goals are that sales and marketing team.

[00:07:55] That are, have mutual respect for each other are finding ways to work together are finding, you know, salespeople are finding ways to make marketing's jobs, easier. Marketing is finding ways to make sales job easier. Well, you know, it's interesting because of automation obviously has shifted a lot and of course, course the internet.

[00:08:15] I remember I had a great moment. I was in, uh, 1997 and I was with a company called Compuware. It was. Uh, digital, I was a mainframe software company that was moving to what was then called client server. So I was one of the product marketing directors for one of their clients, or actually for a couple of their client server products.

[00:08:34] And we launched a new product line. So we did a global tour. We did 16 cities, uh, around the world and. Yeah. It was a lot of logistics involved and speakers and lunch and name, tags, and gifts, and we're working on all those things. So I remember we, uh, we did one in [00:08:51] Belgium. It was the only time in my life I've ever been to Belgium.

[00:08:53] It was in Brussels and, uh, we had 30. And I felt good. We had 30 people giving us four hours over their time in Belgium. And I remember I was, at that morning, I was with a woman. Her name was Irene. She was the director of the country of, for Compuware in Belgium. And she said, I want to go through the list with you.

[00:09:12] The people who are coming today, I was like, oh, I knew there's 30 people. Sounds great. And she said, this, person's not a prospect, this person's not a prospect. This person's a partner, so it's okay that he's here. This person's not a prospect, this person's unemployed. And she went down the list of the 30 people and there was maybe two of the 30 that were going to be valuable to bring in, in revenue to the company, either decision makers or people involved.

[00:09:36] And she said, program looks good, but it's probably not going to help us. Yeah. I could always argue from a marketing perspective. Well, the branding and what we're having an event and we sent 10,000 emails and brochures. So, you [00:09:50] know, there might be some messaging, residual illness, if that's a word, if you will.

[00:09:54] But I remember thinking as I was leaving Belgium to go to Milan or wherever the next city was. That's interesting. That is what Irene, that was what her perception was of this event. Not that it was one of 16 on this road show and it was like a great presentation. And then we had a break with Danish and all that stuff.

[00:10:13] It was out of the 30 people who were coming 28 are just here to eat our food. And. You know, w we already know one of the other two and you know, the other person is a partner. So at that moment, I was kind of like, alright, well, what would, what really is the value that we're providing here from the marketing perspective?

[00:10:29] And if it's not achieving the goal, which is to drive revenue, and it might be something else, maybe tee up for an acquisition, maybe get, you know, whatever it might be. That was a, uh, a lesson I've had many lessons like that from sales leaders. So the message to the marketing people. Yeah. I kind of disagree slightly.

[00:10:45] When you said sales needs to think about how they should make marketing's [00:10:49] job easier and they can do that by giving information, by giving some data about. How they see their customers buying and what messages are resounding, but I'll be perfectly Frank with you, man. I think it's the other way. I think marketing really needs to understand what drives sales.

[00:11:03] I would say it's a nine to one balance. And if the marketing people don't understand what's driving revenue, then they're basically wasting the company. Yeah, no, I, I, I do, I do agree with that. And, uh, and the way that market that sales can make marketing's job easier to support sales, to use the right messaging is giving them that feedback, right.

[00:11:24] Rather than just complaining and saying the leads suck the leads, suck the leads suck. Or 28 out of the 30 people here are not people that are going to drive revenue. Well, who are the people that we need here? Or what problems are we solving? What are you hearing? What is the feedback that could get the right people here?

[00:11:43] That's the type of stuff sales can give marketing because a lot of times, a lot of the marketing [00:11:48] messaging is marketing messaging, and it doesn't resonate the same as. Like if me and you were on a sales call right now and having a conversation and really talking about, you know, what problems you have and how we might be able to help solve those and have a customized approach to doing that.

[00:12:04] That's a great comment. Uh, you know, I remember when I was at apple, my boss, his name was Gary Hauser. He said, I want to make sure that you're in. Every sales meeting that there is, and the sales leaders at our company, they were very kind. I remember I went to the very first one and I kind of sat in the back, you know, on the periphery in a conference room and people were kind of looking like, why is, why is he here?

[00:12:26] And okay, let's get to our pipeline review, whatever it was. And then I said, and then it happened a couple of times and I said, okay, I got to need to provide some value here. So I remember I did some research. Raise my hand, like the third meeting or fourth meeting. And I said, have you guys thought about this?

[00:12:43] And I remember it was quiet, like, oh, and then the VP [00:12:47] who was leading the meeting. That's interesting. They said, why don't you sit at the table here? So I went up and sat at the table and, you know, I knew my job wasn't to take over the meeting. They still had to go through pipeline and, you know, objections and all those kinds of things.

[00:12:58] But, you know, once I started showing value and consciously brought value and it wasn't just because I'm a nice guy. He mean they all, you know, they knew that my job was to do something, but when I started, you know, providing that insight and ideas in a way that. Taking over the meeting because that wasn't my task, but you know, then the relationships grew and I got smarter because I understood, you know, they started taking me on sales calls and obviously it's not a whole lot of face-to-face calls going on right now.

[00:13:27] But you know, once I was in the offices of the customer, all of a sudden, you know, things emerge and you get to understand how they're using your product and who else is involved with using the product. And then you become better. Yeah. Yeah. And now with virtual events and stuff, you can, you can put these things on and it [00:13:46] doesn't cost as much as flying to Belgium and putting people up and doing all that.

[00:13:51] And, you know, you can, you can do a little more testing, right. To figure out what works and what gets the right people to show up. Yeah. And actually, you know, that's an interesting, that's a great comment. Yeah. The thing about marketing to just to move on is, um, uh, it's a journey, right? So, you know, we use, I used to do this presentation called the 42 touches and it was this presentation that it took 42 engagements to move the needle to lead to a sale.

[00:14:15] And I've heard people say eight and all those things doesn't really matter. But, you know, it's not one, you know, it's not two, it's not three, it's not five, you know, you need to keep on going. So marketing needs to understand, you know, what is the journey? And, uh, you know, we're in salespeople need to understand that too.

[00:14:29] We deal with a lot of, uh, SDRs and people earlier in their career. And, you know, we need to help them understand that sales is a process. Uh, That's why, you know, one of the challenges is how we measure sales these days, but, uh, you know, what's, what's the journey, what has to happen at [00:14:45] various stages and why does it happen?

[00:14:47] And that's where you get better as a sales professional. Absolutely. And, and there's a lot of tools that can, can help this sort of thing, make better decisions based on data rather than. Sales reps feeling of deal stage. That's a great point. Um, I had, uh, taught Abbott on recently, uh, from, from insight, uh, squared and, you know, he, he was telling, I don't remember the exact numbers, but you know, for his, there, they have their sales process mapped out and they know that if they can.

[00:15:18] Uh, prospect past meeting number four, they have a significantly higher close rate. Right. And so marketing's got to figure out sales, got to figure out how do we get people from meeting four to five marketing needs to talk to sales and figure out what do you need to support? What support do you need? You know, what is it that, to get them from meeting four to five?

[00:15:42] Um, and, [00:15:44] and there's, you know, data, they can there's tools that can track these types of things rather than just, you know, they're kind of a nice, you know, Fred's a nice guy. I'm pretty sure he's going to go with us. Feel good. Let's put this in the 90% column. No, man. That's such a great point. You know, it's, uh, I learned that lesson once, um, that, you know, w what is the honesty of, by the way, if, if you get to the fourth sales call, uh, that's actually pretty good.

[00:16:08] You know, we've, we've seen stats that it's not until. People usually give up after the, the first, when we know that it takes eight calls or eight engagements to get to that point, if you will. So, uh, I congratulate any company that gets to the fourth sales call because customers don't have that much time to waste.

[00:16:23] You know, a customer may be willing to, yeah, I'll give you a give this guy an hour or half an hour on a Friday, you know, cause I want to kind of do something. I want to listen to a vendor. Uh, and that's when people go wrong, it's like, oh my God, I got him on the phone. And he loved what we do. Everybody loves what you do.

[00:16:36] You know, everybody loves possibility. Everybody loves new solutions if it's going to help them. But you know, you have the budget. Do you have the need? Where's the [00:16:43] priority? Where do you fit in with everything else? And, and the biggest thing that I think a lot of sales reps forget to consider is like, Do they really care that much?

[00:16:51] Like, are you really moving? Is your solution really moving the needle for them that much? Because in most cases, buyers are thinking, ah, you know, looks good. Sounds good. But what we have is working in, and this transition is just going to be more work for me. I'm not getting paid more in a lot of cases, you know, am I going to maybe look good maybe, but you know, Hey offender, doesn't deliver.

[00:17:14] I'm going to look really bad. So in most cases, you're, you're competing against whatever their, you know, current option is of doing. Which is, which is a hard sell in a lot of cases. Sometimes it's not just selling against your competitors, it's selling against them. Yeah. I mean, that's classic, you know, the status quo that, you know, we don't have to do anything, uh, at a matter, correct.

[00:17:35] That's that's many times, you know, I get calls all the time. Uh, you know, you get your things in the mail, you know, is it time for you to replace your [00:17:42] siding? Well, no, you know, it's not that much of a process. I have a things, but it relates to an interesting question. It's not just do they. To do anything, but it's understanding, really getting a deep understanding of your customer.

[00:17:55] And that's where I think a lot of sales professionals fall short. You know, as you know, we've been doing webcasts every day from the Institute for excellence in sales that we convert to ourselves game changers podcast. And there's, it's incredible. I believe that we've been doing them for 18 months, almost on a daily basis since the pandemic kicked in.

[00:18:11] But one of the critical things that has come up time and time again, is that you need to understand what's going on at your house. And you need to understand, not just from a macro, but from a micro level as well, you know, what are they really dealing with right now? And actually one of the things that the pandemic taught us is not really what's going on in your, in your customer's world, but what's going on in your customer's customer's world.

[00:18:33] And in some cases what's going in your customer's customer's customer's world. You know, a lot of industries are still. Shifting, you know, [00:18:41] because of the state of the pandemic, if you will, and recovery or non recovery. So the great sales professionals, the ones that have any, uh, you know, any value are truly understanding, not what they offer, but what their customer is going through.

[00:18:55] And you know, it may not lead to your solution right now. And also what is your customer dealing with from their down chain? And it's, there's no excuse for not knowing. You know, uh, I'll give you a quick example. Um, what am I, uh, members of my, uh, Institute for excellence in sales is a large technology manufacturer.

[00:19:15] Let's just say, and from my perspective, they have salespeople. So we at the Institute for excellence in sales can provide value. I had a conversation with one of their sales reps who said. We're going to have some challenges in the next three years because we can't get supply from China. So they various place and trying to make certain number of certain of their products that go into the, the key, um, the, uh, whatever, the, [00:19:40] the, uh, the parts that go into their, their products.

[00:19:42] He said, we're, we're a year behind on getting some of these parts in. So even if there's demand, we won't have the product to sell. So it's like, All right. Well, that's a problem for a whole bunch of down chain, if you will. And that's a little bit of information that would make it easier to be a value to them as a sales rep.

[00:20:00] Yeah. I mean, and you see it even with like, um, car manufacturers right now, none of them have cars. You know, new cars are hard to come by on the lots because of the huge shortage of chips and. Their whole sales process. I hate to use the car salesman example here, but I'm going to, because I was just looking for a car and I was like, wow, their whole world has been flipped upside down because of this.

[00:20:26] We're usually, it's just, you know, they're just trying to crank out as many cars as possible. And sometimes they sell them even at a loss or a breakeven, just because. You know, spiffs from the manufacturers to move the vehicles [00:20:39] specifically when, you know, Hey, we've got 20, 20 ones on the lot. We got 20, 20 twos coming in.

[00:20:45] We gotta get 'em out of here, even if we're breaking even, or slight loss. And, and, uh, and now, you know, they have a couple of cars of each new model, that's it? And they only. Replaced what they sell. No, that's a great that's, there's nothing wrong with that example. And it's exactly what I was, what I was just saying.

[00:21:04] So if you're providing the first off, you're a customer, it's a whole different topic, which we're not really getting into, but if you're trying to sell into that marketplace, you need to understand those kinds of things. You know, it's easy to say, ah, well, you know, there's not a whole lot of cars on the lot.

[00:21:18] You need to understand why. And here's the great thing, Colin, the information. You know, all of the information's out there, people were willing to talk. You could do any type of Google searching. There are so many articles that have been written about this, and if you're a sales professional worth your salt, then you will have done this research.

[00:21:33] And, you know, it leads to another interesting word that, uh, I've always been fascinated with the [00:21:38] word curiosity, you know, I'll ask a lot of people, um, you know, uh, sales. What is a feature that a great sales professionals should have, and curiosity comes up a lot. So we're actually beginning to get deeper into what does that mean?

[00:21:52] And then how does that play into the overall Salesforce? Yeah. And, and, and just, you know, curiosity is, is, is a necessity. If you want to be, you know, a great seller, um, and it needs to be coupled with great listening because you're not going to ask the right questions or curious. About the right things. If you're not paying attention and listening more than you're speaking in itself, this conversation.

[00:22:18] Yeah. I mean, here's the thing to think about is, um, I got a great quote on one of our webcasts. This is probably God it's already September. It was probably back in March. And the guy's name was Gary Milwit and Gary is a sales leader at a company called JG Wentworth, and they do settlement things. You see their commercials.

[00:22:36] At three in the [00:22:37] morning, you get some type of, we want a lottery or a settlement. They'll buy it from you and give you cash up front instead of you getting over 20 years. But I asked him, I said, you know, what's your number one bit of advice for sales professionals. And he said, make everyone you're talking to feel important.

[00:22:52] He says, make, imagine they have like a little placard on their chest that says, make me feel important because here's the number one rule of sales. It ain't about you. It ain't about you. I should probably hashtag maybe you can buy some t-shirts and NW it. Ain't about your quota. You are, I'm sorry. I'd wear that tissue.

[00:23:12] So it's like it ain't about you. It's it's a matter of fact. I think if you go through life, uh, I just, there's a quote that I've been really fascinated with recently. Um, it's an Einstein quote, which says. I'm going to get it mashed up here, but it's something along the lines of, I think I actually even quoted it.

[00:23:28] Did I quote it on your LinkedIn post today? I remember you saying, yeah, I posted on your LinkedIn post today. It actually was something like, um, a life, not in service as a [00:23:36] life, not worth living or something along those lines. And that's really the best way to go about not just your sales life, but you know, your personal life as well.

[00:23:45] It ain't about you. Uh, the way before I said it's nine to one sales, it's a hundred, your custom. Like zero year, let's say 99 to one, you want to build a relationship, but it ain't about you and my friends to be successful in sales and in life. It's about the other person. Yeah. I, I love, I love all of that.

[00:24:02] I mean, treating people like they matter, cause you know, this is what a huge miss for a lot of sellers, as soon as they may be. I don't think they have the budget, you know, don't think they qualify, you know, treat them, you know, uh, like an interrogation before they'll let them speak to an account executive, you know, all of the things that happen, um, that just really.

[00:24:25] Make people feel like they don't matter or they're not important. And the goal should be to deliver a good experience in, in, you know, throughout the process, [00:24:35] regardless of the outcome, you know, whether you work together, you don't, you do. And then you stop working together for some reason. Um, And the, and that's a good reminder.

[00:24:43] It's not about you, you know, in that quote that you dropped out. I don't remember it exactly, but, but yeah. I mean helping others and serving people and having that sort of mindset, it feels good. You know, it feels good. And it does something actually chemically in the brain, uh, for you to, you know, be.

[00:25:03] Happier and be a better version of yourself because you know, you have more meaning you have more fulfillment in the work that you do. Absolutely. You know, that that's coming out of the pen. Well, I hate to say coming out because who knows how much longer this is going to be. I mean, I know nothing, but, you know, w you know, it's kind of interesting.

[00:25:20] We've, uh, part of the pandemic, we did a lot of. We did 50 live events in the DC area. And I did 200 sales game changers, podcasts interviews, and, you know, they were all motivating and great. And we talked about [00:25:34] prospecting strategies and social selling, and it was, you know, how do you become better as a sales professional over the last year, last 18 months?

[00:25:41] I should say, not just the last year. There's been so much more of a shift. And what we talked about from a depth perspective, you know, yes, you still need to be crisp in your prospecting and your account planning and your use of social selling and researching your customers and partnerships and collaboration and value and all those things to become great as a sales professional.

[00:26:07] But, you know, you need to understand. W what things mean here, right? What's the value that you're bringing in and how do you communicate that? And you have to truly internalize that so that you can be of more value, not just to your company and your customers, but to your family and to, to your friends, into your.

[00:26:22] Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. And, uh, I think that people are starting to realize that investing more in these types of things, you know, in themselves [00:26:33] personally, uh, are going to help them perform better. You know, it's, it's great to talk about all the tactics and the social selling. How to negotiate better and all those things that are important.

[00:26:42] But if you take care of yourself personally, you're going to be better at all of those things. And you may not be the best at them, but you will do them better and perform better. If you are focusing on some of these things that you know, you guys are covering in more depth, even on your show. And you, and I talked about that when you were on my show a couple of weeks ago.

[00:27:00] And, uh, I encourage people to go to sales game changers, podcast sales game Changer's Mitchell, common with two L's, C O L L I N. Mitchell, just to get a little more of your perspective on that. And you know, we talk a lot about meditation. We talked about getting centered, you know, we talked about morning routine as well.

[00:27:20] We talked about internal motivation, but. How can you as a sales professional become a better human being, and that will lead to you becoming a better sales, professional, calm. This is great. Thank you so much [00:27:32] again. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on Fred. Really appreciate it. Um, I know you told them where they can check that podcast out.

[00:27:39] Anything else you want to let them know so they can get into your world. And just to reiterate, you're not a busy guy, so they can get in touch with you if they want. How can they, yeah. Is that an interesting thing? Is that like, do you want people to think that you're busy? I mean, I had this one friend that I was trying to get in touch with.

[00:27:57] They had a, she had a thing happened in her life and I wanted to just talk and just let her know this was, I don't know, 15 years ago. And I called a whole bunch of times. Never heard back from her. I just wanted to express my thoughts. And, uh, she finally sent me a note saying, I got your calls. I've been really busy.

[00:28:15] And I'm like, come on. I know you drive, you know, I know you take phones, you know, I know you don't, you're not busy 24 hours a day and we then talked about it, but it's like, you know, it's, it's the whole concept of business, but it's interesting. But now just, um, I run the Institute for excellence in sales.

[00:28:29] People can find me on [00:28:31] LinkedIn. Like you, I post every day, typically seven 30 in the morning. I posted something this morning. It was a poll where I asked people if they're funny, just to see how that fits in with their life to, whereas not humor, but being funny. Where does that fit in? So find me on LinkedIn.

[00:28:46] I'd love to connect and I hope I get a whole bunch of people connecting because. Awesome. We will drop all the links there for you guys. So you can get in touch with, uh, Fred and, uh, I did respond to that poll. I think I'm funny sometimes. I don't know if others would agree, but I did respond to that poll.

[00:29:02] So, uh, we'll drop the links there so you can get in touch with Fred. Everybody. If you enjoy today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends. It really does help us out. And we're always listening for your feedback. Hey, you stepped up. That tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation.

[00:29:19] If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same path, head over to sales,, and crush your numbers on your leaderboard. Yeah. [00:29:30] It's free sales Send me a DM with your best pitch and mention this ad. And I might even give you free access to our best templates.