On this episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Scott Sandland, a patented inventor and CEO of Cyrano.ai, founder and CEO of Hypnosummit & Hypnothoughts Live, and a 20-year clinical hypnotherapist.
Scott's AI makes selling play in a whole different playing field, creating a psychographic profile on every person based on words. Learn just how unique this approach is and how it will most likely how sales people approach their prospects.
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01:57 Scott's journey from a CEO of a mental health clinic to a thought leader in Artificial Empathy
05:04 The jump from starting from scratch and how you can do it yourself learning from Scott's experience
07:22 The founding team who helped create the AI, how it became a real company, and how the AI works
16:08 How psychographics work as well as its benefits and strategies it can create
20:35 How to get in contact with Scott and learn more about his patented AI or anything under the sun
03:31 "I shut it all down because I realized we were getting to the people to late, and by the time people were working with me they were already off track. So I wanted to build a scalable tool to help prevent that from happening, and help people on a good track rather than clean up the pieces after they are a mess."
05:07 "There were absolutely hours, days, and weeks where I was like 'Oh I made a huge mistake,' I had predictable income and no homework. And I can't believe I took that for granted. Because I went from that to always having homework, and always having a to-do list, and all that stuff that comes with startup."
09:51 "What we're really focusing on is empathy and strategy. So our assessments are subjective in nature, and they can show up before, during, or after the call. And they're designed for the salesperson to listen to and get the feedback so that they can become better at their job."
15:18 "Speech is a behavior, and a lot of people don't think of that. People think behavior is like if you bought a thing or not, or your prior search history, or those kinds of things and everyone says 'the past is a great indicator of the future' which is fairly true. But the present is a really good indicator of the future also."
18:24 "Sellers are typically stuck with operating based on their own type, right? You know? How they make decisions and their more likely to win deals with people that are aligned with them. That makes decisions the way that they do, and this gives you the insights of sorta to tweak your approach or meet how the buyer would like to receive the information."
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[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell, and this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.
[00:00:24] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. And today I've got Scott Sandlin, uh, he's the CEO and co-founder over at serum. Dot AI. I think I said that correctly. I even asked them ahead of time, but I'm not sure. Anyway, they're doing some fascinating work, which I'm sure we're going to get into, but mainly we're going to get into, uh, Scott's story.
[00:00:45] He's a former world's youngest hype, uh, hypnotherapist, a few companies and decades later, he's the CEO of a company focusing on, uh, artificial empathy and strategic linguistics. So [00:00:59] what the heck is that? We're going to find out Scott. Thanks for coming on sales transformation. I'm great. Yeah, there's a lot of, what the heck is that in my bio?
[00:01:07] I think I said the company, right? I think I said the company name, right. I'm not sure, but when we first connected after you'd gone on Chris's show. I was super intrigued with the work that you guys are doing. And I know you have sort of a big goal mission that you're working towards as well. And we can, we can talk about that.
[00:01:29] Uh, but the interesting thing, and I've told this story to many people is we had a conversation, uh, over zoom and then you sent. An analysis, uh, on myself and I was beyond creeped out by how accurate it was. Yeah. Yeah. We, uh, we have built a robot now, so our AI is a really good listener and it pays attention to a lot of little details in your word choices, in your phrase, choices and creates a [00:01:58] really specific, uh, psychographic profile on every person based on the words.
[00:02:05] Yeah. Yeah. And we're definitely going to get into that because I'm super curious to learn more than, than what we covered in our last conversation. Uh, but let's jump in here. You have sort of an interesting path that, uh, where you started and where you ended up here today. So tell us a little bit more about that.
[00:02:24] Yeah. My, my wife says, I don't know if it's an original thought of hers. Got it from somewhere, but it's, uh, your life makes sense when you look at it backwards, but while you're experiencing it forwards, it doesn't really make sense on how you're getting to where you're going next. Um, and mine is definitely like that.
[00:02:40] So, uh, I, I come from a clinical background, so I had a private mental health practice and I was the CEO of a mental health clinic in Newport beach. And so I was seeing, um, you know, Uh, eight figure executives. And I was seeing at risk [00:02:57] teens that were becoming drug addicts and, you know, pretty much anywhere in between, but mostly those two categories.
[00:03:03] Um, and that meant I was having a bunch of like my career was having uncomfortable conversations that were really important and no one wanted to be having the conversation. A lot of times people were coming to me against their will and it was my job to like earn the room and like earn their trust as quickly as possible.
[00:03:24] And, uh, and so I got good at that because, you know, you get good at anything you do work hard at. And so that became my, like one of my skills was reading a person like any good sales rep. You know, you're reading them to figuring out how to customize, how to personalize, how to move the needle for them.
[00:03:40] And that was my job. And, uh, built out a clinic, had a staff and then long story short, I shut it all down because I realized we were getting to the people too late. And by the time people were working with me, they were already off. [00:03:56] And so I wanted to build a scalable tool to help prevent that from happening and help keep people on a good track rather than help clean up the pieces after they're a mess.
[00:04:06] Um, and so we built an AI that can help do that. And that's, that's where we are. Wow. Wow. Um, and I'm just curious, you know, you, what did, how, how long did you take to sort of before you took that leap of, of going from, you know, your practice to going full tech entrepreneur? Yeah, well, so my practice was working.
[00:04:33] It was, this was a real conversation with my wife and I, because it was a big income change because I was in practice. I had my office at fashion island, like Newport people know that like, uh, you know, fascia is, it's an expensive office. Um, and I had an ocean view for 17 years, uh, which means things were going fine.
[00:04:53] Uh, and so the shift from [00:04:55] that to start up guy, um, It was four years of doing research. It was four years of, uh, pilot testing and unscalable prototypes and, and, you know, all that's a patent applications and, and all those things went into it before I was really ready to burn the ships and like, no looking back going.
[00:05:18] Yeah. Yeah. Was that, was it a little scary? Oh yeah, it was super scary. And there were like, there were absolutely days and hours, days, and weeks where I was like, oh, I've made a huge mistake. I had like predictable income and no homework. And I can't believe I took that for sure. Uh, because I went from that to always having homework and always having it to do lists and all that stuff that, uh, you know, comes with startup and, and I'm glad I did it for sure.
[00:05:50] And, uh, I'm, I'm proud of what we're doing. I'm excited about what we're [00:05:54] doing, but anybody who's in sales or like a high commission job knows that roller coaster and there's, there's tough moments on that roller coaster. Absolutely. Um, and I think that, you know, you can plan as much as you want to, but tell you, just go all in and, uh, your chips are on the table, you know, then you sort of have your back against the wall and you have to perform, and that's, some people do better under pressure, or when, you know, they sort of are all in.
[00:06:30] Um, that's definitely the case for myself. W what's your experience? Same, you know, uh, in that four years where I was doing the homework, doing the research and, and slowly building, it was almost dabbling, you know, and some of it needed to be that way, uh, just because of life logistics and budget. And I've got a kid and a wife and all that.
[00:06:49] Um, but, but part of it was just the tech wasn't ready [00:06:53] to jump in with both feet yet. So it didn't make sense, but that moment of doing it was a real gut check moment of okay. I have to go all in on this because as long as I'm hedging my bets, and as long as I still have some, you know, income from clients, and as long as I've got that on the side, I'm not, I'm not fully present.
[00:07:16] I'm not fully committed. Like my head space is divided. And, uh, one of our board members kept saying to me, uh, you can't chase two rabbits at the same time. And I think that's good. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, tell me a little bit about the founding team there and kind of, um, you know, how you guys are getting this thing to market.
[00:07:39] Yeah. Depending on how you measure it, there's two or three of us. Uh, so there's two of us that actually invented the, the AI and the system. So it's me. Um, and then, and I learned a lot. I did a lot of [00:07:52] self-taught AI work for a couple years of that four years. And then my co-founder is a sociologist and a neuro linguist.
[00:07:58] So he's a, he's a rewards guy. And then I'm a words guy as well. And so we built out some tech, got a. And I would really say, and you could argue that we're the two co-founders and that that's reasonable. Um, but I would say the company really started as a commercial endeavor when we added Ryan Hough. Uh, Ryan was the CEO of a company called Cirrus insight.
[00:08:22] Uh, which some people on this, uh, will know of because it's a big sales tool. It was the top 10 app in Salesforce for eight years. Um, and so he had built this company. He was a founder and CEO. He had built it up to being 41 on the Inc 500 list and he sold it to private equity and joined Cyrano. And I really think that's when we became a company, uh, when we had that guy.
[00:08:46] Um, they could productize and commercialize and do all that. So I can [00:08:51] invent, but inventing is different than, you know, operationalizing. And so, uh, the three of us are the core team behind the, uh, the company software and product as it's currently. Okay. And, and tell me, you know, this is a little bit of a different episode, cause I'm just so curious, you know, this is such unique work that you guys are doing and it's different than a lot of things out there.
[00:09:16] Um, tell me some of the problems that you guys are solving and some of the benefits, you know, from a seller's perspective of, you know, how they can use those and, um, you know, how that could help them in their sales, conversations and relationships. Sure. So most software that's called sales enablement software, or even conversational insights or any of that stuff is really designed to objectives, really measure a conversation so that the sales manager can review more conversations at scale.
[00:09:49] Uh, and, [00:09:50] and they're, they're great at what they're trying to, that's what they're trying to be, and they're doing it well. That's that's chorus and gong and Balto and all these companies that are really organized around. Objective measurements, talk time interruptions and a couple hundred key words per industry when we're really focusing on is empathy and strategy.
[00:10:11] So our assessments are subjective in nature and they can show up before the call during the call or after. Uh, so, and they're designed for the sales person to listen to and get the feedback. So they become better at their job because that's really, you want that person optimized and not just the managers.
[00:10:30] So what we can do is we can take the conversation, uh, or even a monologue. We can take anything where the person is speaking in their own words, including their Twitter feed. Um, and take that and turn that, like I said, a moment ago into a psychographic profile. And what that means is that we can measure an arc.
[00:10:47] We have a pattern. [00:10:49] Uh, we can measure the likelihood that the person is going to do the thing they're talking about. So we can say, you know, Colin and I were talking about, you know, going and watching a football game together on Friday or on a, on Sunday. Uh, there's no football games on Friday, unless we're going to a high school game.
[00:11:05] I don't know. I think so. I asked you to do a fi uh, Friday football game and your commitment. It was low because you don't want to go watch a bunch of 17 year olds not catch the ball. Um, but so it says, okay, his commitment is low and it would also say, but Colin does care about. These things. So if you talk about these things, you might be able to change his mind.
[00:11:30] And so our software would say here's where his commitment level is. Here's what the next steps should be. So you're not hard selling this guy. Uh, and here is the kinds of strategies in different scenarios that we can give you. So we have specific scenarios for like how to upsell a person or how to deescalate [00:11:48] and resolve conflict.
[00:11:49] We have had a mentor, a person. Uh, but we also have like a complete version of it just built for real estate sales. So for real estate it's how do I show open houses to this person, how to do a listing presentation, how to do a buyer consultation, closing so on and so forth. So we actually say bullet point, this is the situation you're in.
[00:12:09] This is the person you're talking with. This is what you should do. And so we just make it really cliff notes, glance. So 10 minutes before your call or your meeting or your, whatever, it pushes this information. So you know how to go in to be successful. All right. So let's take this into like a sales process, you know, context, right.
[00:12:35] So, um, you know, have a discovery call. You know, things that happen there, you can, the AI can determine their level [00:12:47] of commitment, uh, in moving forward. Oh, in B to C we're 95 plus percent accurate in B2B where somewhere between 78 and 92%, depending on the stage of the sale. Uh, but you know, in either case, yes, high accuracy, we can say, if this person's going to.
[00:13:08] And what sort of feedback or tips or insights would the seller get? If somebody's commitment level was low on how to maybe, you know, push, push them forward or you know, how to proceed in next steps to get a higher commitment level out of them? Yeah. So the first thing you would measure is the alignment of the two people.
[00:13:29] So you as the seller and me as the potential cost. It would say, we'll call you. You were really over the top on that you were really pushing the sale and this person is not there yet. Or, Hey, you were aligned great. [00:13:46] Or this person was ready to buy and you talked past the close, right? So it would give you that feedback.
[00:13:53] And then it would say, ah, there's a section called next steps and you just take the next step. So you take the person's learning style, which is either visual, auditory, or sensitive. Um, and then you would take their priorities, um, and you would combine those with their commitment and it would say this person needs, uh, more facts and data.
[00:14:13] So give them a couple of links that they can do the research on their own, and then say, you'll follow up with them in three to five days. It's just that, or some person it's like, Hey, this person doesn't want more details. Make sure you tell them about a couple of biggest celebrity endorsements, or a person who they respect.
[00:14:30] Who's already on the software. And that's going to help you. Um, and so it tells you just real simple, this is how to follow up, send them a text message that says something like this, ask them this follow-up question. So it just becomes [00:14:45] really, really targeted so that you don't have to be, you know, experienced to know what to do with it.
[00:14:51] And with key things, is the AI picking up on to make that determination? Yeah. So, uh, importantly, we do not pay attention to tonality or sound at all. So there's a bunch of really valid stuff. That's great. That's paying attention to like rate of speech or inflection or tone, and that's all cool. But if you're doing that, you can't do email or text message or social media.
[00:15:16] So our software is just doing words. And so it's listening to the way a person is talking about. Topics and there's little tells in everyone's language and it just finds those. Hmm. Interesting. So think of it this way. This might actually help speech is a behavior and a lot of people don't think of that.
[00:15:38] Like people think behavior is like, if you bought a thing or not, or your like your [00:15:44] prior, uh, search history or those kinds of things, and everyone says the past is a great indicator of the future, which is fairly true. The present is a really good indicator of the future also. And so what we're looking at is we're measuring your present self and saying, this guy who's in front of you right now is acting like this.
[00:16:06] And that means that these are the things that will probably happen next. So instead of doing generic, sort of big data generalizations, It's doing really small data. Micro-targeted this guy right now is acting like that. Yeah. Yeah. And so tell me a little bit about the, the sort of psychographics part, cause I know you mentioned that and I know there's companies that.
[00:16:32] Providing data or psychographics on people. And there's a lot of, uh, people that believe, you know, Hey, people that are, you know, similar, similar interests aligned more likely [00:16:43] to do business together. So what sort of things are you guys looking at or that identifying those sort of, you know, psychographics for alignment?
[00:16:53] So, uh, one of the things that we measure is, uh, prayer. And one of the cool things about priorities is they're context dependent. So how you show up when you're talking to a car salesman is different than who's like trying to sell you a car is very different than how you're talking to a prospect that you're trying to sell.
[00:17:12] Or your boss. Yeah. I mean, maybe not, I mean, every once in a while. Um, and so paying attention to the priorities the person has and easy examples are the person is relationship oriented or ego oriented or facts oriented or process or. And there's some people who just work a process and they're very methodical and they don't really care about the humans that are going through that process.
[00:17:41] [00:17:42] They're optimizing for the process and that's a valid way to approach life. It's not the way I do it, but. Um, and then there was some people who are much more relationshipy and they're not caring about the features. They're not caring about the cost. They you're just optimizing for the relationships. And there are people who make buying decisions based on that.
[00:18:02] And therefore, we need to know this customer. Is a relationship based sale. You need to take them to golf. You need to take them to the Lakers game. You need to build those relationships and bonds with them. Or this is a customer who does not care about any of those things. This customer wants industry specific data given to them so that they have peace of mind.
[00:18:26] And it tells you which, and, and that's, you know, one easy example. But it tells you what this person is doing to make their yes. No decision so that you can give them the thing that makes them say yes. [00:18:41] Yeah. I love that. And because sellers are typically stuck with operating based on their own. Type, right.
[00:18:50] You know, how they make decisions. And they're typically, they're more likely to win deals with people that are aligned with them. They make decisions in the same way that they do. And this gives you the insights of sort of to tweak your approach or meet, you know, how the buyer would like to receive information or how they, what their, you know, you can adapt your selling process to their buying process.
[00:19:17] Right, right. And it's, it goes back to that whole, the customer is always right, like mentality, uh, to some degree where you say it's not about right and wrong, it doesn't matter if their way is better than yours or not. There, isn't a better way. We just know that this is the way that they're going to do things.
[00:19:37] This is the, the, their [00:19:40] KPIs are. Data, their KPIs are structure and process. Their KPIs are, it has to be beautiful. And some people don't care. If it's beautiful, they care about functional. Some people care more about a form than function. Our software will tell you that. So you can say, Hey, if you're doing an open house, you better wash those windows and make sure there's a beautiful view on the other side of it and highlight, you know, uh, natural light and views and beauty.
[00:20:05] Other people you need to say, uh, we just redid the floors, so it may not look pretty, but you're not going to have any issues with structural for the next X number of years. Uh, it will tell you which one of those to focus your plan. Right, right. And yeah, I mean, you're right. There's no right or wrong. This is the way, if you want to win, if you want to win this relationship, you want to win this deal.
[00:20:30] This is the way to approach it. That's most likely to put this in the win column. So. Awesome. I love the work [00:20:39] that you guys are doing. I know you have some, some new things that you're releasing. Um, maybe you want to tell folks a little bit about that and then where they can find out more about the product, um, and all that good stuff.
[00:20:50] And we'll include the links here in the show notes. Awesome. Yeah. So, uh, we have, uh, we have a zoom tool, which you and I were talking about it a minute ago, the analyzes zoom conversations. We've got tens of thousands of users on that. And it's awesome. Uh, the feedback we were getting from people was okay, but that's not telling me anything until after the call.
[00:21:08] I want something before the call. So we built a thing called navigate and navigate, um, uses our own API. Uh, to analyze emails. So we're in Gmail outlook office 365, apple Yahoo and Hotmail and AOL, which I didn't even know AOL was still, uh, email, but, um, so someone was like, Hey, can you do my AOL account?
[00:21:31] And I was like, wow, you're anyway. Um, and so if it's a even moderate sized [00:21:38] email provider, we're in that, the calendar, the context, everything. And so it gives you an aggregate. Here's all the conversations you've had with this person. Here's a profile on them and here's the game plans to influence them. Uh, it also gives you a per conversation analysis that you can just click into each conversation you've had with them and see information about each of those.
[00:22:00] Um, we're doing a trial on our website right now. Anybody who signs up, they get a two week free trial. And anybody who, uh, pays to convert from the, uh, you know, the free trial to the paid version. The first 500 people who sign up are going to get 30% off for life. So it's a crazy deal because we're a new company and we need to drive awareness and we believe in.
[00:22:25] So it's 20 bucks a month and we're talking about a 30% discount for life because as soon as people start playing with this thing, everybody's going to want it. So we just need to drive [00:22:37] the, uh, the eyeballs to it right now. And that's all of that set our website, which is cyrano.ai and Cyrano is spelled C Y R a N.
[00:22:46] Uh, dot AI. Awesome. We will include the link there in the show notes. Definitely want to check it out, sign up for the free trial, play around with it. Take advantage of that discount while you can. Um, this has got thanks so much for coming on today. Really appreciate it. If you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review.
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