Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Sept. 10, 2021

#148 S2 Episode 17 - From a highly regulated Industry to helping Sellers Sell without Sleaze

On this episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell, he is joined by Sarah Jolley-Jarvis, an international best selling author, founder of both Selling Without Sleaze and Full Spectrum Agency.

This episode talks about the importance of getting to love the product you're selling and if not, how to channel the right thoughts to be able to sell it. More so than that, Sarah shares with you, the listener, more things that you would need to get the hang of in the sales world.


Get your FREE Vidyard account and bonus Video Sales Process Playbook here!

HIGHLIGHTS

01:11 Sarah's journey into sales and how she evolved after that

04:56 Selling something you're passionate about versus selling something you're forced to

07:49 The origins of the podcast "Selling Without Sleaze" and how it is so far

17:15 Why sales and dating are similar in so many ways

24:22 How to properly make a discount especially if the client is worth it

30:55 How to get into Sarah's world and get in contact with her

QUOTES

05:35 "When you have that confidence that actually 'I can really help you.' God that puts you in a position in where you're not feeling like you're badgering someone, you're feeling like it's your calling and your need to go out there and share with them and make them see."

07:07 "If your heart isn't in what you're selling then try and find something that your heart is in. Or look at how you can inject that passion into what you're doing. We all have lows and feeling that you've lost you're 'umph' but it's about getting it back."

15:39 "In that moment of desperation is not a great place to be making sales conversations or anything else."

18:07 "As a seller, it takes an extreme amount of discipline and confidence and just respect for yourself to not book a deal that you know you shouldn't. And that could be for another of different reasons, like you really know you're not the best fit."

21:49 "Don't be so quick to discount, when you're desperate and you discount to get a deal, that really sets the precedent of the relationship with that client. Like, 'oh they need me more than I need them' and there's a huge lack of respect for what you do and a huge disconnect of them valueing what you do."

Learn more about Sarah in the link below: 

If you enjoy the Sales Transformation Podcast, please subscribe, share, and send us your feedback. Please make sure to rate us and leave a review on Apple. 

Learn more about Collin in the link below: 

Also, you can join our community by checking out @salescast.community. If you're a sales professional looking to take your career to greater heights, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a call with Collin and Chris.

Looking to start your own Podcats? Book a FREE strategy call. 🚀

Transcript

[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell, and this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:24] Welcome to another episode of sales transformation today. Sarah jolly Jarvis. She is a sales trainer and mentor. She's also international best selling author and founder of selling without sleeves. We are obviously going to talk about what that means today, and we're going to learn a little bit more about her own sales transformation story.

[00:00:44] Sarah, welcome to sales transformation. How are you? I'm good. Thanks. Uh, I'm doing pretty good. It's been a couple, it's been a crazy couple of weeks. Uh, my workload has been a little crazy, had to kind of shuffle some things around. It's never [00:00:59] fun to ask people to, to move meetings, but people are, people are pretty nice most of the times.

[00:01:03] So, um, but anyway, we're here to talk about you today. I recently had the pleasure of going on your podcast. Uh, you were an incredible host, so I will try to return the favor. Thank you. So give us, give us the backstory here. What's your story? How'd you get into sales and let's kind of take it from there. I got into sales because I did a degree in business, um, that got me a placement year.

[00:01:31] So a year out, um, in industry and I ended up in a office, um, supporting a sales team and looking around, sitting at my desk all day. Um, kind of being present because I had to be there for a set number of hours rather than the output I did or anything else. And that's it sales team. And I thought you get to go out with the office, you get to do stuff, you get to see people.

[00:01:55] I was like, you know, if I'm going [00:01:58] to do this whole business thing, I'm going to, I'm going to have a go with that. Um, so it was, it was to getting out. I was really lucky. I got to go out and, um, follow a few people. Um, see what they. And I thought, you know what, it was quite a male dominated industry. Um, but I was still like, you know what I think.

[00:02:16] This seems pretty straightforward. Really? It's just chatting to people. What's my initial thoughts. A little bit more to it than that, but yeah, the original. So basically, uh, it was a little bit more exciting, a little bit more appealing than just kind of sitting around in the office, watching the clock go by.

[00:02:33] Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, talking to people been in sales, like I think I've met three people who were like, that's what they always wanted to do. Um, I've met lots of people who have kind of happen into sales. Um, they just got some across it. They're good at communicating, then they're quite sociable fundamentally.

[00:02:52] Um, and, and that's, what's got sort of gotten them into it as far as people in [00:02:57] sales, careers are concerned anyway. Yeah. And so in, in, in what made you stick with it?

[00:03:05] I was good at it. I enjoyed it. There's an honest answer. There's an honest answer. I got results. I guess if you are terrible, you wouldn't still be doing it right. Or writing books about it. You really hope not, but yeah. I was really, really lucky. The first company that I got a job that I got the job was in the pharmaceutical industry in the UK.

[00:03:30] And that's very highly regulated. And in the UK, you can't make loads of promises or claims. Um, when actually it goes to the state, I have a feeling it's less regulated here in the states, but I don't know the industry. I was on my honeymoon, we're in Hawaii. And I was like, have you seen this? Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:53] It's like, can you solve this problem, solve this [00:03:56] one problem and gain 15 other possible problems, but by her product. But it didn't mention that, that they went from being really authentic to riding a bicycle. So, um, but yeah, it was, it was really, it's really regulated in the UK. And, and so we were kind of trained and we were trained really, like, it was like an eight week residential trial.

[00:04:15] Um, and they, they really put us through our paces and they didn't let us out until we'd pass the tests and people actually failed. Um, and, and so, yeah, it was, it was a really great foundation. It was the best training that I'd ever had I've ever did have, um, in the industry. Um, and so that kind of got me on the online sort of path.

[00:04:34] And then I was, you know, I was really fortunate. I'd had that stuff. And then yeah, I got, I got results. I enjoyed being around customers. Um, I enjoyed strangely enough because it was medical devices as well. And, um, yeah, some of the stuff that I then began to know about that I didn't even know existed. [00:04:55] And then making of horror movies.

[00:04:56] Um, I found really interesting. Um, so yeah, I still, you know, point out leg ulcers and supermarkets to this day, which my husband finds pretty disgusting. Um, but, um, but yeah, it really, I really got into my job. I loved it and I don't think you can, I couldn't sell something that I wasn't really of. And I, I proper got into it, which is very random.

[00:05:19] Yeah. I mean, you could, but you probably wouldn't be great at it. Right. Um, I mean, there's a lot of people that sell stuff that they don't love and they got to really dig deep to, to find some passion. Um, but it's great. When you can find something that you're selling that you are passionate about, because it just it's a lot easier.

[00:05:38] It doesn't necessarily feel like work and you can really enjoy it. I think the thing is, is, you know, then like I was really clear that this can help you. Like, can't help everybody, but it can help this, this sort of part, this type of person. And it's like, when you have that confidence that actually I can [00:05:54] really help.

[00:05:55] Um, got it. You know, that, that puts you in a position where, you know, you're not feeling like you're badgering someone, you're feeling like it's like, it's your, your, your calling your need to go out there and share with them and make them say, help them, see how you can help. And at least encourage them to give you a try.

[00:06:12] Yeah. I mean, when you're passionate in what you do or the problem you solve, or you really believe in the product, it's much easier to pitch with conviction. Like, you know, it shows through like, oh, you know, they, they really believe this is the best option for me or, you know, they're, they're gonna, yeah.

[00:06:36] Trust that you genuinely can solve that problem. And you're the best option rather than just if you're not, or you don't fully believe in it, you can kind of tell. Um, and, and, and through your tone, through your body language, through [00:06:53] lack of eye contact, all of these things that are sort of tells of like, eh, I'm not sure if they're totally confident that this is the best option for me, if you're not sure, I'm not sure.

[00:07:04] And I think that's the thing is, is, you know, I've, I've always, I've, you know, I have had products that I haven't been totally convinced about. I've been really fortunate. They've been part of a portfolio where you can focus on other bits or you can even get people to try it for you and give and give their feedback.

[00:07:20] Um, but yeah, I've always encouraged people to be like, you know, if your heart isn't in, in what you're selling, then, you know, look and try and find something that your heart is in. Um, or, you know, you look at how you can inject that passion into what you want. Um, you know, we all have roles and, you know, feeling like you've, you've kind of lost your, um, it's getting that back so that you can, you can be in for that customer and, and show that passion and show that energy.

[00:07:47] Right, right now. Um, I'm super curious. This is the [00:07:52] big question. That I've been waiting to ask you. And we did, and we did no preparation. So

[00:08:01] so the work that you do, I find extremely interesting selling without sleeves. Like I think it just really like. It hits home and resonates for a lot of people. Right. Um, I'm curious, what got you so passionate about that work or, or, or that title, right. Uh, did you have an experience that sort of led up to kind of dedicating yourself to that work?

[00:08:28] I had a bit of a shock. Um, I think I'd been, um, so I'd been in quite reasonably regulated industries. I touched on elements of sales, which were less regulated. And my husband was in the online world doing marketing. And then I was on, I was on maternity leave and that's when I really began to kind of be aware partly because maternity leave is [00:08:51] not mentally that stimulating.

[00:08:52] Um, I began to sort of be aware of. What sort of job he did and what industry was in. And I could not believe it. It was like a crazy free for all of claims. And I was just like, yeah. Which is more of the norm, which is more of the norm, right. In the vast majority of it. Non regulated industries. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:15] But I think the online business world, and you've got the business gurus, you know, people can be whatever they want online and people know that well, you know, people don't let beginning, you know, they are learning that more and more. And so you've got this, these claims and it was so unsubstantiated and I was like one of us.

[00:09:34] Um, and it was very, I was just really aware of it. Isn't it, how are they getting away with this? Like how, how can they do this? How can people feel like that? And then being aware of it and, and kind of getting in touch with [00:09:50] people who are, you know, we, we had startup businesses, um, who were equally startup businesses and people who were really good at what they do, but what they do, wasn't a sales and marketing.

[00:10:00] Um, and you could see, you could see competition and, and you could see people getting frustrated and talking to people. They were frustrated. Okay. That person has better marketing than me. They don't have a better product than me. They don't have anything else, but they're just putting themselves out there.

[00:10:13] They just look better. Um, and it's that frustration of, oh, I want to do that. Why aren't people seeing how great what I do is, and it's like, because you're not marketing yourself. You're not putting yourself out there and doing the selling. And they're like, what? I don't want to do the selling. They were reluctant to sell.

[00:10:26] People are reluctant to sell because they don't want to be that person. And the thing is. The, the, you know, not everybody as far as sales trainers, but a lot of the sales trainers that I was coming across at the time were very much around backing people into a corner, you know, getting people to run to the back of the room, get you to stand up and kind of shaming people into.

[00:10:47] Um, which [00:10:49] obviously was really impressive from at the event and they got shaming, those trainers. I know, I know people that people were saying to me, I can't do that. I don't want to do that. And I was like, I don't, I don't want you to do that. You don't have to do that. And, and it came from that. And, and I started using steezy tactics and referring to tactics of false scarcity and that the pushing people, and then making people feel.

[00:11:15] You know, then that's something wrong with them because they're not doing what yeah. You particularly see a lot of those tactics come out end of month. End of quarter. Right. Where there's just, it comes down from the top, right? Like, yeah. You know, it's not a lot of times, it's not the sellers faults. It's, it's, it's the leaders that are teaching these techniques, these habits, these, these things, um, that you refer to as sleep.

[00:11:44] Right, uh, to just get the deal done and treating people [00:11:48] very transactionally, uh, and giving, you know, sales people in general, just a bad reputation. Um, I saw something I saw, I saw a post, I think it was yesterday. Uh, maybe it was, maybe it was today that said something like 67% of stats that you see, uh, are, are, are made up.

[00:12:13] I don't know. I don't know how.

[00:12:20] said it said something like 60% of all statistics are made up. And the number jumps to 86% when it's posted on LinkedIn. And I don't know where this individual, uh, came up with these numbers. And of course my comment was, um, and, and I'm sure this stat falls into that category, which is

[00:12:44] part of me is like, [00:12:47] Kind of believes it, you know, I I've seen a lot of people make a lot of claims about things that I just, I know for a fact are not true. Um, and, and, and I even was kind of victim to this in my own sales journey started when I first got started. You know, I was told here's your script, here's your list of names.

[00:13:07] Here's a phone. And like, that was, you know, that was my train. That was my formal training. And no, it took about, it took about eight seconds and then, and then, and then it was like, Hey, and if you want to get better, like, you know, just go, listen, listen in on some of the. Top performer, you know, the top performers here.

[00:13:27] Um, and so I did, and I started saying some of the things over the phone, cause I was just making a lot of calls every day that these other individuals were saying. And then one of the more tenured people came over and he's like, you and I started putting some numbers on the board and I was feeling pretty good.

[00:13:43] And, and uh, and he came over and he [00:13:46] said, you shouldn't be saying that. And I'm like, And he's like, well, for, for first of all, it's not true. And I'm like, oh, but you know, so-and-so is saying it on every call. And I'm like, he's like, yeah, but it's not true. And it's like, oh, but I'm getting sales. I don't understand.

[00:14:06] You know? And, and, and I think a lot of people, uh, just do what people are doing, do what the people before them are doing. Not even know. Yeah, if it's true or not, or, you know, um, And, and, and, and I think that that's, that's a big problem. Yeah. Yeah. And it creates the culture, doesn't it? And that's the thing then.

[00:14:28] And then to go against that culture, it's it's yeah. You know, like if you at the bottom of the leaderboard, but you're going well, you know, but I'm not lying on my phone. My thing's a fact. And it's like, well, you're underperforming mate. Um, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's a tricky situation to be in. And, you know, [00:14:45] as you said before, It comes to the end of the month and stuff like that.

[00:14:48] And, you know, they're pushing for those figures and it's out of desperation. People is, you know, desperate situations is desperate measures. Um, but I think that's, it is building up in the longer term, your, your customer base your relationships and protecting those over. And that's what I ended up having to do with some of the, the roles that I had was first and foremost, it was my relationship with my customers.

[00:15:13] And I would just deal with what happened, um, as far as sort of management conversations were concerned. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and so a lot, I know that a lot of the work that you do is kind of coaching and mentoring people to sort of, you know, put the people first sort of play the long game and invest in the relationship.

[00:15:33] Right. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think, you know, that's the kind of get in there quick, make a few bucks and leave without fulfilling, you know, you're, you're kind of under the ballgame, but [00:15:44] yeah, it, it, it doesn't work. I am, I am encouraging the long game. I do encourage the long game with clients. I think, you know, obviously the referrals you can, when you look at the long game, it makes lot of sense.

[00:15:55] But in that moment of desperation in a place of desperation is not a great place to be making sales. No or anything else. And it really starts from the very beginning of the sales process because so many people. Go into their prospecting activities. Thinking like the goal is to set a meeting or the goal is to sell them this thing.

[00:16:20] And like, you don't even have enough information yet to know if that's a possibility, like the goal is to just have as many conversations with as many of the, what seems to be like the right people to. Find out if it makes sense to set a meeting or to sell them a particular thing. Uh, and, and you know, what I like to [00:16:43] tell the people that I work with is, you know, the, the goal is to always deliver a good experience regardless of the outcome.

[00:16:50] Yeah. And I think that's the thing is sometimes you go, as soon as that money is that transactions happened, that people, the ride goes off the ball. And I know that even that used to happen with me when I was in sales, where everyone would turn up for the launch of a, of a new formula web, we were up there and they were using as across the board.

[00:17:09] And then when the hard work came to actually implementation support in that year, No one was there anywhere to be seen? Um, because they were like, oh yeah, you know, we've got the headlines job done. And it's actually, when that transaction hat start is when your job actually, you know, as, uh, as an organization starts, you've got to fulfill what that person has just paid for.

[00:17:29] Um, and so, yeah, it's like dating sales is like dating. Um, there's so many, so many similarities and even down to the, getting to know them, And then getting to know you and it's like, actually, if that [00:17:42] person is a difficult person to sell to, and you don't form a decent relationship with them during the sales phase, do you want them as a client going forwards?

[00:17:50] Um, particularly if you've got to work with them, one-on-one um, you know, do, do you want that when, when you haven't dealt to start with, um, they ended up being in a lot of cases, the most problematic of clients, um, well, you'd be better off, you know, letting them find somebody who's better suited to. Right, right.

[00:18:10] Yeah. And we all know, we all know the clients that we ended up working with that we know we probably shouldn't have. Right. I mean, there's no amount of money that ends up being worth it. Right. Um, sometimes it takes, it takes an extreme as a seller. It takes an extreme amount of discipline and confidence and, and just respect for yourself.

[00:18:36] Yeah. To not, to not book a deal that you know, you shouldn't [00:18:41] right. And that could be for a V that could be for a number of different reasons. Maybe you really know you're not the best fit or you can solve like 80, 90% of the problem that they have, or you've oversold a feature that's not ready, or, I mean, there's a number of reasons, right?

[00:18:58] That, that, that, that somebody might not be the right fit. Um, Or you just know it's just a client that you just know is going to be challenging to work with. We'll just leave it because if that's taking up the time that two clients would take, you're better off letting that one go and get the two clients.

[00:19:17] To take that place, you know, you could be doubling your revenue, um, with that, with the time you're gonna spend on that person. Um, I suppose I had a call with a client the other day, and obviously I work a lot with people who are owning their own business. Um, and you know, we'd had financial figures in place that she was going to hit and she's smashed those.

[00:19:36] And she's really happy with that. But she said to me that the [00:19:40] town, the coach was like, I've actually turned somebody down. Cause I told them that I wasn't, I wasn't. Uh, happy that they were going to be committed enough. And, um, and I was like, I really do feel like now, actually that's where you've made that you're in a comfortable position with your business because you're not chasing that sale.

[00:19:58] You're not taking that person on when you know, they're not right for you. You're confident enough in your pipeline that you can think, know what other clients are going to come along. You know, you're confident enough to be like, actually, no, this isn't right. Whereas historically she had taken on anybody just because she wanted that many cases.

[00:20:15] Um, and so yeah, it was, it was a really nice sort of moment to kind of think, you know what actually you're in, you're in a solid position with your business now. Right, right. Yeah. And, and, you know, I think that that's a huge, um, indicator of growth, right? Like where you can actually turn business away and there's a lot of people would be like, what the heck are you talking about?

[00:20:38] Why would [00:20:39] you turn business away? Like these, these two are nuts. You know, stop listening to podcasts right now, but just if you haven't left, Um, let's stick with us here, stick with us here. And we'll, we'll try to work through this and explain it, but it really, the interesting thing is, is people end up wanting to work with you more if you say no.

[00:21:04] And. Sometimes that could be a possibility, right? Because in that scenario that you explained there, Sarah, like where you said, you know, the, the, your client told the prospect like, Hey, I don't think we're a good fit because I just don't think you're going to be committed enough. Maybe that set a new precedent for the relationship like, Hey, no, I am committed.

[00:21:26] Like, what do you need? Like, that's going to change the whole dynamic of the relationship to maybe put it into a better place. We're making we're working together actually does make [00:21:38] sense. And then, but that's, that's a possible outcome. Another possible outcome is they're like, Hey, you know, F you, I don't want to work with you anyway.

[00:21:46] Um, but, and then you saved yourself a lot of hassle and trouble because that side of them would've came out, you know, in month one, two or three of working together. Um, and here's the thing like. If, if, if you want to get to that place, like it takes, you can increase your prices. You know, don't be so quick to discount like people, you know, when you're desperate and you discount to get a deal that really sets the precedent of the relationship with that.

[00:22:19] Like, oh, they need me more than I need them. And there's a huge lack of respect for what you do. And there's a huge disconnect in them valuing what you do. Well, the thing is, is, you know, from a relationship point of view, the [00:22:37] idea is, is that you have a solution to eat, you know, a problem or something that they want something that they want, or they need.

[00:22:43] Um, if you, as you say, if that, if there's that disconnect and you need them more than they need you, then you know, it does set that relationship off. It's like, you know, in dating, it's like doing all the chasing and that person, you know, well, if I've got nothing else to do on a Saturday night, I'll go.

[00:23:00] Yeah, but, and, and that's the sort of relationship you're building with that customer is one where they're like, well, you know, they clearly, haven't got anyone else say that they're desperate to get me. So they're offering this or they're offering that in response and say it discounting definite no-no. I think with that, with the client where she was like, yeah, you know, you're not we're after results.

[00:23:20] You know, that's the thing is, is yes, she wants the revenue, but she only has a finite amount of slots where she can work with people. If she's got somebody in there, who's going to take up more time. They're going to be more difficult and they're not going to get the results. She can't then use that. You can't use it.[00:23:36] 

[00:23:36] As an example for testimonials, for social proof going forward, that I get these results because, you know, you can say, if you take on a client that, you know, it's going to fail, and then that's going to affect your, your, your success rate, as far as the clients that you've got concerned. And that's why, you know, you're in a position where actually, what are you wanting to protect here?

[00:23:58] Um, and, and yeah, it, it does alter the relationship. And for some people it can be. Um, and you can get that person coming back to you being my, you know, please work with me. What does it take, you know, as you were saying Colin, so it's always worth bearing in mind. The sale has to be right for both. Um, right.

[00:24:17] And I think so many sellers are quick to not respect themselves enough where they are quick to discount just to get the deal. Um, and I'm not, I'm not opposed to, I'm not like one of those righteous, like never discount and like here's how you negotiate sort of [00:24:35] hard line. Like sometimes it makes sense to discount, but there's gotta be.

[00:24:39] A give take relationship. Like here's an example. Like I have discounted in the past and, and you know, I will do it if, if it's somebody that I feel like, Hey, you know, we can really help them. I think I'd really enjoy working with them. Um, but maybe they just don't quite have the budget, you know? And, and I feel like they're being genuine about that, but I'll say like, Hey.

[00:25:02] I'll go ahead and discount this for you, or we'll reduce the scope to kind of meet you where you're at. Right. But here's what I need in return. Like I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna put my foot on the back of your neck, but like I need two to three referrals within the first week. 90 days of working together.

[00:25:20] Do you think you could do that? Sure. I can do that. Great. Then I can meet you, you know, meet you where your budget is and let's do this. Um, that's a great way to properly discount. In my opinion. I love [00:25:34] that. I really look at the end of the day, it's an exchange of resources. So it's that person doesn't have the financial resources.

[00:25:39] They've got to meet you with something else. So you could get feedback recommendations, testimonials, right? Verbal, you might, they might be that person as a point of reference, shaving back is another great way of doing it. It's just, okay, well, you know, I'm here with this, this service and you're there with this budget.

[00:25:58] So what we can do is, is I'm gonna take this off and I can take this off and we can work. On a, on a reduced service for you at that price. And, and that's where I'm way more comfortable. If that person doesn't have any resources to offer, um, above and beyond finances, then it's about shaving back the scope of what you're going to do.

[00:26:17] Um, in order to come to that. Um, from my point of view, you really want to protect, um, the, your pricing as much as you can. Um, it's a reflection on the value that you provide to that past. And, um, even if [00:26:33] it's delayed payment, um, you know, as a sales trainer, the most needy people that are out there for working with me or people who I could make a massive is the irony.

[00:26:44] Isn't, you know, it's something I come across all the time. Um, I can help the most of the people that they need me the most, but they have the least amount of money. Um, but if you look at that's, when going, you know what most people get a result with the next amount of time, um, comes into play. And you're in a position where you can say, well, you should earn it back.

[00:27:02] If you go. If we do, if you do the work, if you're not prepared to do the work, this probably isn't a great idea anyway. Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree. And it just, there is a proper way to discount. And this is, this is, this is highly dependent on if you feel like. Let's just say, they're not going to be a pain in the ass client and they are a good fit.

[00:27:31] [00:27:32] You're a good fit for them. You know, it, it seems like the right type of relationship, the ideal client, um, meeting them where they are or crafting a customized offer, um, does make sense. But, but what doesn't make sense is, Hey, it's end of month it's into quarter. Hey, I just got approval from my manager. If you can sign in the next 32 seconds, I can give you 20% off that does not the right way to discount because it's going to set the relationship up for failure because they're like, They need this deal way more than I need their solution.

[00:28:05] And I could probably ask for even more and I could probably just, you know, run right over them with any requests that I need. Yeah. Oh, you've got the right thing that people are like under the, you know, under that pressure, they decide to commit to something that otherwise they wouldn't have done. And then they're going to get buyer's remorse.

[00:28:22] And then they're going to start off that relationship with you, or do you feeling like you made them do something they didn't want to. Um, which you can, it's not going to create this [00:28:31] nice relationship that you want to work in. Um, and, and you should, you know, what was saying with that? Are they going to be an enjoyable person to work with that is an exchange of resources.

[00:28:40] Like actually how much would you pay to work with somebody who you enjoy working with versus somebody who wouldn't. Um, and, and yeah, that's what you want to take into consider. And let's just look at it from a little bit of a different lens too. Right? So let's say, you know, maybe you have a customer success team and you don't have to deal with the person as much in post sale.

[00:29:01] Right. And so you're like, eh, I don't really care if I enjoy this person. I'm just trying to get on the board and hit president's club then, um, you know, winning a deal that churns in two, three or six months, Okay, because, um, you know, your reputation as a seller matters. And if you're just jamming deals down the pipeline that, you know, that [00:29:30] word gets out, you know, whatever, you know, people you're dealing with, whether you're selling into the C-suite or, you know, maybe you're selling to, you know, techno you know, CTOs and CIS, whatever the case.

[00:29:42] Like word travels and like your reputation matters. And you know, you want to build people that want to refer business to you and you're losing and missing out big time. If you're just, you know, driving over people and, and, you know, leaving wrecks behind you. Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I think it's in sales.

[00:30:02] Your reputation is, is, is your, is one of your currencies, you know, as far as customers are concerned, as far as businesses concerned, particularly if you're in quite a niche area, Um, It, it, it follows you. Um, and that's, that's why my focus was always on my customer relationships because my customers did follow me.

[00:30:20] If I move to a different company, if I moved to a competitor, they would move with me. Um, you know, as long as it wasn't a terrible [00:30:29] alternative people buy from people. Um, you know, the products they were buying were very similar. So it came down to that experience. Um, and that's why people within the industry would pay more for you because they knew that that customer base would come.

[00:30:42] Yeah. Um, and that's what, what you're getting. So, you know, equally, if they know that, you know, the clients that you bring on turn or the total pains, um, all the time consistently, then that's going to be something that will follow you. Um, and, and you know, then you're not going to have that customer base to go with you either.

[00:31:01] Yep. And you're going to hit a ceiling and you'll never, you'll never understand why you can't get past it. Sarah. Thanks so much for coming on today. Really appreciate it. Uh, any final thoughts? What links are we gonna include in the show notes for people so they can get into your world if they want to. I literally am the only Sarah jolly drivers in the world, which is pretty cool.

[00:31:23] I know. Yeah. So if you go onto Facebook, you got any, any of the platforms? Sarah trolley, [00:31:28] Jarvis, uh, J double L E Y. Jarvis. Um, yeah, we, yeah, we did. So it's quite easy to find me. Um, I'm normally around on Facebook is my sort of main channel. Um, I've obviously got my own podcast. Um, and again, funding without sleeves is pretty unique as well.

[00:31:45] So take both please. And Sarah jolly Jarvis, it's a search engines and you've, you've got me. Um, but yeah, certainly without that.com is the website. There you go. And if you enjoy today's episode, which if you stuck around this far, I'm sure you did. Uh, please, please write us a review, share the show with your friends.

[00:32:03] It really does help us out. And as always, we are listening for your feedback. Hey, you stuck around that tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation. If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same path, head over to sales.

[00:32:22] Dot community and crush your numbers on your lyrical. Yeah. It's free [00:32:27] sales cast dot communities. Send me a DM with your best pitch and mention this ad. And I might even give you free access to our best templates.