Sales Hustle is now Sales Transformation
Aug. 24, 2021

#136 S2 Episode 5 - Struggling to get Data into the CRM to Technology to help CRO's

This episode of the Sales Transformation Podcast with Collin Mitchell features Todd Abbott, CEO of InsightSquared. Access to data and the ability to respond quickly to sales forecasts create a massive competitive advantage for companies.

It starts with commit culture where an organization's team members are held accountable to weekly commitments and the larger goals of the company. This creates reliable data from the ground up so that CRO's know when to hit the gas or tap the brakes.

Commit culture is now supported by technology like activity capture and analytics to create transparency. Having access to the same set of data allows CRO's to align strategies from the revenue team to the board and provide direction with meaningful impact.


02:12 Having a pulse for sales forecasts and the value of commit culture 

07:48 Creating discipline and weekly accountability in the sales team

13:03 Commit culture requires leadership buy-in to get accurate forecasts

20:10 Activity capture technology provides real-time data on sales funnel health

26:40 Analytics data provides CRO's data to gain control of the revenue process


08:48 "We had a commit culture that was every week. So you committed every week. If you missed last week, why'd you miss? So it wasn't monthly or quarterly cycles of learning. It was weekly."

16:59 "You don't want fear in the organization. And so you got to strike that right balance of you're letting your peers down because your peers are going to have to make up when you don't meet your commitment more than your job's in jeopardy."

22:29 "When a customer is engaging, meaning they're responding to your rep's email, they're scheduling meetings, they're looking at your attachments, they're engaging with you. They'll do that when your value prop resonates with them."

24:47 "With this activity capture and the analytics you can provide, we can provide real-time insights through the sales process and identify potential deals that are stalling or worse, are dead, like that's all false positive on funnel coverage."

31:44 "What I'm really after is helping CRO's gain control of the revenue process and the alignment of the functions by everybody looking at the same data. This is the sales process, team. Help me improve conversions here or here."

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[00:00:00] In the world of sales, you either sink or swim or breakthrough to the next level. My name's Colin Mitchell. And this is sales transformation, a new kind of sales show designed to bring you through the epic life-changing moments of elite sellers. So you can experience your own sales transformation.

[00:00:29] Hey, before we start today's episode, I wanted to bring you in on the best kept secret in B2B sales. If you're serious about social selling and your only strategy is cold DMS through LinkedIn, you're missing the mark big time. Learn how I fully manage revenue generating podcast can change your life and your

[00:00:55] All right. Welcome to another episode of sales transformation. [00:00:59] Today's episode super pumped had a fantastic conversation with Todd Abbott. He's the CEO, uh, over at insight squared, which is a super interesting technology. It's taken a lot of work, uh, away from the salespeople so that they can focus more on selling time.

[00:01:17] It's also giving revenue leaders the insights that they need to make better decisions. And we go through his work experience and his sales experience of working in, uh, mid cap and large cap companies, driving revenue, managing teams, and get his perspective on things. So I hope you enjoy this episode and there's tons of value.

[00:01:38] So make sure you grab a pen and take some notes. Todd welcome to sales transformation. Hey, great to be here. Thanks for the invite. Yeah. Um, uh, we, we had a bit of a bumpy start, but, but we, we found a place to make it work and we so appreciate you showing up today, uh, finding a, a room with, with better audio.[00:01:58] 

[00:01:58] Quality. There you go. So let's just kind of dig right in here, you know, give us your, your backstory. Like, how did you get into the work that you did you've been doing? Um, and we'll kind of take it from. Yeah. So I I've been in a sales, uh, professional right out of, right out of university, kind of learned the trade at IBM.

[00:02:19] Not really learning a whole strategic consultant to selling. This was when IBM was in its heyday and then joined Cisco Cisco systems during its growth growth era. I mean started at a billion and left at 19. It was just a tremendous ride. And what I really learned there. The sales process, the sales management process, um, was we really had it down to a science, um, got to opportunity to look, to be overseas for six years with them.

[00:02:43] So became a global exec. Uh, and then I'm going to CRO kind of ever since for mostly mid cap, large cap, um, always had an analytical side, always struggled with getting the data. Um, but, uh, but really a sales [00:02:57] sales guy. Awesome. I want to dig into your experience at Cisco there. And the one thing that really caught my attention, and I know just from our chat briefly, before that you're passionate about is the science of sales.

[00:03:09] Can you break that down for me? Yeah. So, uh, with Cisco, it was really the science of sales manager. Um, the rigor of what you do weekly, monthly, quarterly. I mean, it was, uh, it was, there was a cadence to it, uh, and that cadence becomes the rhythm of, of driving behavior and the culture of an organization. Um, I didn't really understand or appreciate that coming from IBM, but there it was, it, the rigor was amazing.

[00:03:38] Um, and it just forced everybody to align work. This is what we're gonna do every Monday. This is what we're going to do a once a month, week, two, week three. Um, and this is what we're going to do quarterly. And the way we looked at the business and the support porting, uh, metrics and, and management [00:03:56] reporting drove an alignment on a global scale.

[00:03:58] That was amazing. I didn't really appreciate it until I left there afterwards and tried to get that into other organizations. Um, but that was. And the w and the alignment of it was amazing, and you'd never skipped a beat. And so our ability to get a pulse on the business from a regional level, up to a European or Asian or us and to a corporate level within three days of every week was, was amazing.

[00:04:27] And, and that's what I really learned there from a, from a science of the management system. Yeah. How large was the sales organization at that time? Oh my gosh. I mean, when I joined, we were a billion, a billion dollars. Um, uh, how many salespeople do we have that I I'd be guessing. Um, but well, over a thousand, we a thousands, uh, when I left, um, you know, we were 19 billion.

[00:04:51] I mean, the sales organization was huge, but that cadence of the [00:04:55] management system never changed. I mean, literally the CEO, John Chambers would get a pulse. By Wednesday of every week, as it rolled up through the processes, um, would be able to keep a pulse on how things were going over a 13 week, quarter, every quarter had 13 weeks.

[00:05:12] And so the ability for the business and for me, In my business to have a pulse as to how things are going. Are we on track? Are we off? And to know when to hit the gas or when to tap the brakes in a very timely manner was it was a huge competitive advantage. What were some things that were essential to keeping that pulse accurate?

[00:05:36] Uh, the roll-ups from the field? I think the number one thing was having this commit culture, uh, down to the rep. So, yeah, we didn't use terms like forecast. Uh, we use terms like commit and, and everybody needed, needed to run their business down to a [00:05:54] rep level. You, you owned your business and you needed to commit to your business.

[00:05:59] Um, and the systems were set up to really drive a level of, of, um, of accuracy on the forecast. Um, uh, that would narrow as the. As you moved up the organization, right? Like, so running a large theater like Europe, um, I had to be within 5%, uh, a rep had to be within 10%. The CRO has gotta be within 2%. And so you're managing a portfolio of business, but how do you drive a discipline at the rep level where they are accountable for the status of a deal?

[00:06:33] The status of a forecast? There was no, there was no acceptance or tolerance. Um, with sandbagging or with making commitments based on hope. They were both just as bad because when you're trying to do is optimize. Uh, uh, visibility of the business that if we're ahead of plan based upon good quality data, go hire more, right when you're [00:06:53] doubling every year, the ability to accelerate investment in the growth engine of the business, um, mid quarter, hugely competitive advantage versus most organizations wait till the end of the quarter or wait till two, three weeks later, how did we do?

[00:07:07] Oh gosh. We're ahead of plan. Like let's. Our ability to basically hit the gas, if things are going well in this region or this part of the world, um, or to know when to tap the brakes, um, or knowing things something's a little bit wildly, like something's changing and go figure out what's going on. Uh, that was what was so impressive in the business, but it started with the culture of the commit at the rep.

[00:07:34] Yeah, no, that's amazing. You rarely hear of sales organizations with that accurate of, you know, their forecast. So I'm just curious, like what contributed to that? Disciplined have a sales [00:07:52] culture to be able to be that, that accurate in the data. Well, so at the end of the day, there was a culture of, of execution and performance.

[00:08:01] You had to do what you say you're going to do. And if you, if you couldn't do that, if that wasn't your skillset, then you were purged from the business pretty quick. Um, uh, and so as there was a lot of pressure put on a good constructive pressure, right? There was a level of accountability at the management level.

[00:08:19] Like you were empowered, but you're also accountable. And so you could miss, um, but you couldn't miss two, three times, but it was, it was all about if, when you missed it was all about trying to teach. Why did you miss, like, even down to the rep level, like w like reps are going to miss. First-line managers are going to miss and my whole focus and the whole focus of the culture was, do you know why you make.

[00:08:42] Uh, what didn't you know about that deal? What didn't, you know about your portfolio business and what are you going to do differently? Uh, and so we had a commit culture that was every week. So you've [00:08:51] committed every week. If you miss last week, why did you miss? So it wasn't monthly or quarterly cycles of learning.

[00:08:56] It was weekly. And so w when you missed. Why did you miss? What information did you need to have? What should you have had? What, what judgment didn't you incorporate in? And so this concept of accountability to the commit was a weekly cultural aspect that then enabled us to be much more effective monthly, quarterly, and it was all about what information do you need to run your business, to know your business so that I, as a GM can rely on the information that's flowing, right?

[00:09:27] Right. What you're trying to do is get the qualitative judgment out of the process by getting more quality data from the bottoms up. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And to have that weekly feedback loop, rather than the monthly or quarterly, um, allows you to, you know, even down at the rep level to be constantly.

[00:09:50] You know, why did I not, why did I not, you know, close this commit, Y you know, what could I have done differently? So you're constantly thinking about little small areas that you can improve to get more accurate with your commits. That's right. And, and the culture was one as well as on peer pressure is that, uh, at a manager level, um, uh, or an executive level, if one region was not executing, uh, everybody understood.

[00:10:16] I was accountable to the business. And so we were going to have to, as a team make up for that region. And that also went down to the region level when, because of the commit culture, when a rep wasn't going to deliver this week, this month, this quarter, um, we, everybody needs to step up. I need to pull other business in, cause we've got to make our commitment to the business.

[00:10:37] That's why I really loved that. I didn't appreciate it at first, but I really love this concept of it's not a forecast. Anybody can forecast. We want you to commit and you can't come in unless you know, the business, it doesn't mean [00:10:49] you're going to commit to the new. But just commit to what you're going to do and then deliver.

[00:10:53] Um, and, and so if you can drive that down through the organization and have weekly learning curves, weekly accountability as a team, um, then your ability to have information flow and to execute as a team, go up expedite. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's, it's not common for people to do that weekly. Why, why is that? Um, well, when you're growing as fast as in a high-growth business, You have to be thinking about, um, uh, increments of time that, that drive as, as well of the linear performance as possible.

[00:11:29] Right. There's too many businesses that do a tremendous amount and week 12 week 13, right. There's 13 selling weeks in a quarter. Um, and so how do you drive a weekly mindset? Um, that enables us to understand where are we against the quarters. Where do I need to be [00:11:48] by the end of week four? Where do I need to be?

[00:11:49] By the end of week eight? Like in our system, we knew where we were going to finish by week seven or week eight. Statistically, if you were on track a week, seven week, six week, seven middle of the quarter, you were in good shape. If you are off, um, then that's where we put the focus on how do we get you back on track?

[00:12:08] Um, and so the weekly mindset. Uh, was very critical from the feeding of the growth standpoint. Like when we were ahead, like tell that region to go hire more people, uh, when we were behind and there was open rec of let's go understand what's going on? Do we have an execution issue? Is there something going on in that country or that region, like what's going on?

[00:12:28] So we could assess, um, what we do with that business and where we needed to make up for it elsewhere. So the weekly process allowed us to have a sense of confidence and execution focus. Um, over the 90 days that that just was really impressive. Yeah. Yeah. And [00:12:47] you know, not quite making decisions in real time, but pretty darn close.

[00:12:52] Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I want to touch on something that you did mention a couple of times is, so you mentioned you didn't appreciate this. As much until later. So I'm curious to know if there was some experiences, um, where you didn't have that sort of culture or that sort of, you know, weekly, uh, feedback loop to, and an accuracy in the data that did make you appreciate it more after.

[00:13:18] Oh yeah, absolutely. After I left Cisco, um, I think. Became an executive in companies that ultimately were bringing in new leadership to go through a transformation. Um, and I've never experienced the weekly execution, accountability, um, culture, like we had at Cisco. It was built that way. I give a lot of credit to the initial early leadership for having established that.

[00:13:41] Um, uh, and so trying to put that into. Uh, [00:13:46] eh, uh, you know, existing companies where I came in, um, wow. It's really hard. It takes time. Um, it does not happen overnight and I've learned that it can literally take, you know, a good six to 12 months to get there. Um, and the dependency is that, that, uh, or the critical success factor, frankly, is your first-line leadership team.

[00:14:05] Like, like when I pop into a new, new role, that's the first place I want to, I want to look at is what's the quality of the first-line team. And I've got to get them aligned, uh, both intellectually and emotionally. To this process is going to help them execute. It's not right for everybody, not everybody loves this is weekly inspection and accountability.

[00:14:27] Um, and I've just learned how hard it is to do a transformation of a culture and make no mistake about it. This weekly, monthly, quarterly commit culture, uh, commit, uh, execution mindset is a cultural shift. Yeah. And so I've just learned what are the there's some, there's some real tricks to the trade to [00:14:45] get there, but you've got to be really mindful of the time it takes.

[00:14:48] Like it doesn't happen overnight. Um, and you've gotta be patient with it. And the only way you can get there with patients is if you've got a leadership team that's bought in, like I spent all my time making sure that the leadership team understands what we're doing and why. How we're going to measure it.

[00:15:05] The measurement system has to align to what we're doing and why, but if you don't have them bought into what you're doing and why you're doing it, then you'll never get there. Then the needle will never move. Um, you've got to get that team to really understand and appreciate it because then they're bought in.

[00:15:21] Because they've got to change their own behaviors. They've got to change their own approach. And, um, and if I can get the first line team to that level, then I know I'm off to the races. Yeah. Yeah. I know there's probably some revenue leaders that would love to know any tips about getting, getting the leadership team bought in on that idea to [00:15:44] get more accurate on that.

[00:15:46] This is the end of it. I mean, a lot of one-on-one time. Um, a lot of group time. Um, but it's like, I will manage through my layers of management to the first-line team because I know that's where it, it, it it's made her break. Yeah. And so what, what, what's, what's more of the norm that you've seen through your experiences, um, as far as like, you know, accuracy in forecasting versus what you experienced at Cisco?

[00:16:15] Um, well, so I'd answer that question differently for like, you know, the first quarter or two, like it takes, uh, Yeah, again, it depends on the size of the organization, but if I'm talking at a large, larger sales organization, two to 300 plus, um, you know, you're looking at a minimum of three to four quarters to really get the comfort level and the skill sets to be able to start to see that.

[00:16:41] The benefit, the [00:16:43] accountability and the results on forecast at the rep and first-line manager level. In my experience, it takes it, it will take that long. Um, and the hardest part is getting them to be comfortable then. Commitment and meeting your commitment is not about job security, right? You don't want fear in the organization.

[00:17:01] Um, and so you've got to strike that right balance of, um, you're letting your peers down because your peers are going to have to make up when you don't meet your commitment more than your job's in jeopardy. Right. Um, and so that's the hard part. And so, so that is what takes the longest is getting people comfortable because most reps just don't like to commit deals till very late in the process.

[00:17:24] And. You've got to get them over that to say, like this deal yet, I'm going to get it across the goal line this month, this quarter, and not wait until you get the verbal, like, I, I tell people all the time, like I can hire anybody to give me that forecast. Like, I need you to tell me you're going to get it across the goal line.

[00:17:39] And then drive the organization [00:17:42] to help you get it across the goal line. W why, why is it, do you think that a lot of reps tend to be reluctant to commit to the very end or sandbag because they're, they've grown up in so many organizations. Once they give visibility to a deal, then they wind up being under tremendous pressure.

[00:18:03] Right? Why do reps high deals in the upside? Um, come in with sandbag deals that they knew all along. We're gonna. Uh, we're gonna, that we're high odds to come in. They just don't want the scrutiny and the exposure and the, and the perceived pressure. Um, that's why th the key art of this whole thing is to, is to not have the commit translate to more pressure, to more interrogation, to more inspection.

[00:18:28] Um, you've got to develop this team comradery around the commit and, um, And it takes time. Uh, and it's a real art for, at the first-line level. So that's why you got to [00:18:41] spend a lot of time teaching the management team, how to implement a management system like this. Well, I mean, I think the key there is really what you just said, right?

[00:18:50] Is reps are in fear that it's going to create more pressure, create more stress, create more questions, more meetings with management more, Hey, where's the updates on this deal? All of the stuff that they don't want to deal with. So. Creating a safe culture and environment where they need to feel comfortable doing that.

[00:19:12] And it's like you said, it's going to take time because you can tell them that they might not trust that right away. Um, and they kind of kind of ease into it. I committed this deal and nobody's breathing down my neck, you know? And when they miss, it's not about, you know, public thrashings. Um, but, but all their peers know they missed because I, as a manager, I'm now going to their peers and saying, Hey, I need you.

[00:19:39] I need your [00:19:40] help. I gotta, we gotta pull on a couple of deals this month. You know, Johnny or Sally, uh, are going to miss. And if Johnny and Sally are missing every month and we're putting pressure on the team, the peer pressure, frankly, is what determines can that individual step up or not? Uh, and sometimes they can't.

[00:19:58] Right. But what you want is people to self-assess and self-select out. Um, it doesn't need to be public. And that's the art of it. Yeah. But you know, the interesting thing now is with some of the new technology, um, we're, we're re we're removing the capability for reps to, um, to high deals or to hope a deal is going to come in.

[00:20:25] Right. Because data analytics now. Um, is, is making it so that I don't need to spend the time interrogating an inspector. That systems now are doing that, uh, [00:20:39] and forcing a level of transparency, um, that takes the noise out of the system. And frankly makes the discussions or the feelings that's right.

[00:20:49] That's right. Like it's, it's, it's a really great point. No more like, Hey, Todd's a nice guy. Pretty sure he's going to work with us. We had a great conversation. Well, sorry, but that's not what the data's saying. And you know that when you can get everybody aligned to the facts are the facts let's deal with the reality as it is not the way we'd like it to be.

[00:21:13] Um, then you can have much more engaging, constructive discussions. And so that's, what's most, I'm most excited about relative to the advancements in technology is the inspection that I would have. I've done over my career and it's still done being done in many, many places. Um, we can change that dynamic fundamentally.

[00:21:36] And it's good for the rep. [00:21:38] It's great for the management team and the process is so much more effective in delivering consistently, right? And there's no, there's no bias or no, you know, I hope feel, or any of that, the facts are the facts. So, and I'm, so I'm curious, um, you know, what sort of. Technology, are we talking about what sort of data are we capable of capturing and, you know, how is that making things easier for the rep and for the, you know, revenue?

[00:22:09] Yeah. So I think the first thing is, um, there's, uh, there's some great, uh, automatic activity capture technology that captures the digital engagement. Between your customer facing team and the customer. And what we've learned is that engagement level is the best indicator of the health of a deal. Right?

[00:22:27] This is going to sound obvious, but when a customer is engaging, meaning they're responding to your repor, SES email, they're scheduling meetings, they're looking at your in touch [00:22:37] attachments. They're engaging with you. Uh, they'll do that when your value prop resonates with them. They'll when they're investing time, because it's worth it.

[00:22:47] It's at some point in a, in a bad deal, they start to check out. And when they check out, how do you determine that? And I love best reps know that, um, but I, as a management team or I, as the ability to assess the quality of that deal in the funnel, I'm still dependent. On the rep, but now we have the ability to capture all of that digital engagement and take the rep, pick the dependency of the rep on their key punching activities.

[00:23:15] Like I don't need them to put it into Salesforce so we can capture all of the email flow to, and from the meetings, uh, adding context. This is another great example. We're finding that about 30 to 40% of the context in the buying group, uh, is, is actually in your CRM. Cause reps, they don't, there's nothing in it for them to have another [00:23:36] contact and any of the overlays or SES, like they don't add anything.

[00:23:39] And so you don't really even have a good view as to who is actually engaging as the buying group expands through the sales process. Um, how many contexts does it really take to win? Do you. And what meetings are critical, uh, uh, what meeting conversions are critical. Cause if you think about a sales process, it's really about converting meetings, right?

[00:23:59] You're engaging through the process. You're bringing more the customers bringing more people to the buying group and you're educating through the process until you fundamentally get to a meeting where the executives are there to make it. Right. And if you know what the key meetings are and you know, is this deal progressing?

[00:24:16] Did it convert to the next meeting, to the customer staying engaged? Well, if I'm capturing all of the engagement, like after the meeting, like there's, now we can sit, we can do analytics on what happened in the meeting. Uh, we can get your keywords and who's talked and what's the engagement level. But what happens after that?

[00:24:34] [00:24:35] Did they schedule the next one? Did they open your email? Did they look at the attachment on the post-meeting material? And if they didn't, maybe that meeting didn't go so well. And how do you get the customer back? So with, with this activity capture and the analytics you can provide. Like we can now provide real-time insights through the sales process and identify potential deals that are stalling or worse are dead.

[00:25:00] Um, like that's all false positive on funnel coverage. And so automatic activity capture, automatic contact capture with the rep, not having to do anything. It's not coding emails or putting this in the subject header, like get them out of that business so they can go out and sell. And then be able to provide the insights from the analytics directly to the rep on the deal, as well as to teach weekly, look at like, what is my sales process look like?

[00:25:26] And where are the inflection points? That we need to be focused on as a business to improve the outcomes of the sales team, right. [00:25:34] Or even as a whole deals are typically dropping off at this point. So what's wrong with the sales process that we need to fix or deals or, you know, people buy the buying group is becoming.

[00:25:46] Not engaged and having a place around it the right time and the right moment, uh, to re-engage them properly without waiting too long and wondering or thinking. Um, I think it really well, right, like, like the, one of the big mindset changes that I've had, um, having now been in this technology for the last year, um, we've all grown up looking at deals and the quality of the funnel.

[00:26:13] Sales stage. Um, and I now believe that that's a bit misguided because reps are horrible about keeping stuff at the proper stage. Cause what do they care? There's nothing in it for them. And every time, um, I've done a funnel review or a forecast review and looking at deals and saying, oh, you tell me your proposal is done.

[00:26:29] Yeah. This is still an eval or even worse qualifications, like it's in [00:26:33] the wrong state. Oh yeah. I'll go get that fixed. I mean, that happens everywhere because there's nothing in it for a rep they don't care. And so I've, I've done a complete flip to say, um, in my business, I know we might commercial business as an example, but if I can get to meeting seven or eight, I wouldn't 60% of it.

[00:26:51] And I know I've got to get past meeting three to meeting four, because if I can get past that, that's when I start to win. But my biggest inflection point is, is in that meeting three to four. I didn't know that before I had didn't have this analytics, but now I can start to look at deals. Which deal had a, had a meeting three, but didn't get the fourth meeting scheduled.

[00:27:10] Cause my reps are conditioned. You always, your first validation of a good meeting is the customer willing to commit to the next meeting, right? When they say, ah, you know what, we're going to converse and we'll get back to you. And then the rep spends the next two, three weeks, four weeks trying to get the customer back.

[00:27:24] Like you may have lost that deal coming out of the. And how do you identify those deals and put tactics in place to get [00:27:32] that customer back, or if it's dead, get it out of your funnel because it's just a false positive on your coverage. And so the analytics now possible, that's what I mean by the science of sales, like engagement level is the best indicator.

[00:27:46] Right? And, and, and now we can get that. Um, without the interrogation. Right. Right. And, and I mean, just even the insights of knowing your close rate, if, uh, if you get to a certain level of meetings is huge. And knowing that the biggest drop-off is between say meeting three and four and just be, you know, hyper engaged with the prospect in, in much more thorough as a rep to make sure, Hey, we got to get them from meeting three to meeting four, because.

[00:28:17] Increases our chance by X, if we can get that done, um, it puts a whole new level of awareness on the entire team, uh, to know, you know, the certain areas where, where a deal can go [00:28:31] south really quickly. That's right. And I've always struggled as a CRO in my career. Like, um, getting the alignment. On improving our sales team's execution.

[00:28:41] Like I was viewed. Our sales team is, Hey, listen, this is not my team. This is the company sales team. And I need, I believe that there's more dependency on the revenue sales function than any other function in the company. I need good quality leads and marketing support. I need product management. I need ops support.

[00:28:58] Like you need more sales. And the challenge is how do you bring everybody to the table to address the critical inflection points or friction points in the sales process? Because everybody comes to those meetings with their own data, like marketing says, I got all these leads, I've got all this great content and you know, this, you should, you should never be losing.

[00:29:16] And product says, there's no way you should ever be losing and well, hold on a sec, like if I can come to the table and say, well, actually, um, meeting three meeting four is really critical. And where I'm winning, we're using this material or the [00:29:30] material you're touting, actually none of my reps are using.

[00:29:32] So let's stop talking about that and help me improve conversion for meeting three to four. And so what data cohorts am I, am I converting versus not? Is it. Uh, it's a different regions, different people, different industries let's get under the, under the table or under the, under the, the, the covers from a data standpoint and help me understand or product.

[00:29:53] I know you think you should never lose, but actually when this competitor has mentioned, my win rate drops in half. Helped me get my team to be able to compete against that competitor more effectively and knowing where it happens in the sales process, because I now have the data. Now, all these functions could come to the table and say, if we improve our sales team's execution between meeting three and four, and it flows through to where I went, 60, 70% of the time.

[00:30:22] Wow. That's how you move the needle. Yeah. Or even just that level of awareness can help you [00:30:29] to be more proactive about a lot of things. That's right. And, and I, I mean, I believe one of the reasons that the CRS that the life cycle of a CRO and a PVC backed a small medium business is like 16, 18 months now.

[00:30:45] And, and I believe one of the fundamental reasons I've seen this with my customers, I've experienced that myself is a lot of times. Uh, we come from the art of sales and most CEOs or CFOs really don't understand the sales process. And so when you don't deliver on the quarter has to be people, right. It must be an, it starts with the leader.

[00:31:03] Um, and when you miss two quarters in a row, typically this hero takes the bullet because it buys the CEO more time say, cause he can, he, or she can stand up to the board and say, yeah, I have an execution issue. We're making a change. And in what we've always faced, this CRO is, is I had never had the data.

[00:31:20] That brings all these functions together and say, well, here's why we missed, um, I didn't get enough quality leads, or we didn't make the [00:31:28] improvement. We expected in this conversion or my win rate dropped against this competitor. Like, like the, and the CRO has never had the data to be able to really differentiate what is this function saved versus this function versus that.

[00:31:40] And it just reverts back to must be sales execution. And so what I'm really after is helping CRM. Gain control of the revenue process and the alignment of the functions by everybody looking at the same time. Like let's w this is the sales process team and help me improve conversions here or here, or if I need to get the CRO to the table earlier, if he's your key executive, like in my case, when I get him to the table and meeting seven, eight, that's when I went 60% of the time, one of the tactics and strategies that I can start to implement from an ABM standpoint, to get that CRO to the table sooner, if I can get to 60 or 70% by meeting six or seven, Like the throughput of my sales team, our sales team, who's the needle.

[00:32:25] Right. And so the [00:32:27] aligning function. Bye bye. Everybody looking at the same data that's I think what's so exciting about the state of technology in the revenue ops. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can make some much more collaborative decisions together rather than the typical finger pointing. Right. Uh, Todd, it's been awesome having you on.

[00:32:52] Uh, really appreciate learning more about your story and, uh, and about these new, this new technology and how beneficial it could be. So before I let you go, you know, where can people find out more? Where can they follow you and any final thoughts? Yeah, absolutely hit me up on LinkedIn. Um, uh, and my email is, uh, T Abbott, a, B, B O T T at, at

[00:33:15] Um, I'm happy to engage. Offer perspective, share, share advice. Um, like my whole passion in life, having been a CRO for a long time is, is to, is [00:33:26] to fundamentally change that average tenure of CRS. Let's get that thing way up above two to three years. Um, and that's the technology we're trying to develop. So I think it's exciting times and I welcome the opportunity to, to either support you or be a contact within the team.

[00:33:43] Awesome. Thanks so much, Todd, if you enjoyed today's episode, please write us a review, share the show with your friends. And as always, we are listening for your feedback back. Hey, you stuck around that tells me you're serious about your own sales transformation. If you're tired of doing things the old way and want to get started in your journey with other people on the same path.

[00:34:02] Head over to sales, and crush your numbers on your leaderboard. Yeah. It's free sales cast, doc community. Send me a DM with your best pitch and mention this ad. And I might even give you free access to our best templates.